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Ghartark

Stop Throttling the game

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Posted (edited)

While waiting for any significant update, instead of getting any content, the only thing the devs have done is to nerf every possible way of obtaining money. To make a quick list:

- Breeders became way harder to catch, needing extra steps or more expensive pokeballs in order to do so efficiently.

- Pick up rates in popular spots were "adjusted" to make finding a valuable item way harder.

- Trainer rematches earnings were nerfed into the ground.

- Berrie farming keeps getting smashed left and right.

- Amulet coin became a consumable that is a pain in the ass to get, because you almost inmediatly after release nerfed any good spots to farm them efficiently by removing it from persian.

Im sure im letting something out, in any case, all of this was while we were waiting for the "legendary dungeons" that you are holding into the hidden abilities for. I get that this project might not be a priority for you guys as developers, but you keep trying to slow down progression in order to "keep us engaged", but in reality, you are making this experience way more tedious than it needs to be.

 edit: I also luled hard at the poor fools that spend even weeks trying to find the lucky egg from chansey or paid up to 800k for one, just for you guys to make it a one hour consumable, way to slap your playerbase in the face btw.

Edited by Ghartark

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25 minutes ago, Ghartark said:

I get that this project might not be a priority for you guys as developers, but you keep trying to slow down progression in order to "keep us engaged", but in reality, you are making this experience way more tedious than it needs to be.

The reason for the slower updates is because the "easy" stuff is already done. Anything they want to add now requires hours of design and tweaking before implementation, and even then they don't get it perfect on the first try. It's not to keep you engaged, it's because they are trying to find a balance between effort and payout for anything they want to add.

 

30 minutes ago, Ghartark said:

- Breeders became way harder to catch, needing extra steps or more expensive pokeballs in order to do so efficiently.

This isn't anything new, you've always needed False Swipe/Spore to efficiently catch breeders. The only changes they made were taking away the advantage their catch rates gave over the vanilla games because that wasn't intended.

 

31 minutes ago, Ghartark said:

- Pick up rates in popular spots were "adjusted" to make finding a valuable item way harder.

When valuable items are easy to find they cease being valuable.

 

31 minutes ago, Ghartark said:

- Trainer rematches earnings were nerfed into the ground.

Once upon a time money was so easy to come by that the devs had to reset a large portion of users back to 20k as well as remove a large number of items players who saw that coming had stockpiled in an attempt to hedge their losses. People literally lost millions in one fell swoop. So making trainers pay out less, which iirc they haven't adjusted much recently, makes sense because you have to keep some balance between money being popped into the economy by trainer battles and money sunk out through breeding and purchasing field supplies like potions and Pokeballs.

 

34 minutes ago, Ghartark said:

- Berrie farming keeps getting smashed left and right.

I'm not too familiar with Berry Farming so I can't speak too much on this. Perhaps you could clarify more what you mean?

 

35 minutes ago, Ghartark said:

- Amulet coin became a consumable that is a pain in the ass to get, because you almost inmediatly after release nerfed any good spots to farm them efficiently by removing it from persian.

Benefit to the new way Amulet Coin and Lucky Egg are handled is that you no longer need to use up a held item spot on your team to get the buff, which is huge. You also skip over that it was buffed back to +50% money gain as opposed to the permanent buff of +10%. The counter balance to this buff is that it has to be limited in some capacity to maintain some semblance of balance in game. For every buff introduced something has to be nerfed to compensate. You can't constantly buff everything because that would be unhealthy for gameplay.

 

47 minutes ago, Ghartark said:

 edit: I also luled hard at the poor fools that spend even weeks trying to find the lucky egg from chansey or paid up to 800k for one, just for you guys to make it a one hour consumable, way to slap your playerbase in the face btw.

They had said something months ago, after Lucky Egg was nerfed, that they were going to rework it. It was previously +10% exp on a permanent basis, but they said that was temporary while they decided what they wanted to do with it. Though, if I do recall, it did suffer a large scale drop in value after that announcement. Lucky Egg used to be worth millions.

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Unfortunately so long as the influx of new players stays the same rate, nothing’s gonna change.

Though with that in mind, with all these nerfs, the efflux of players has been increasing.

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2 hours ago, Ghartark said:

Breeders became way harder to catch, needing extra steps or more expensive pokeballs in order to do so efficiently.

This I agree with, it's ridiculous what they did. 

 

2 hours ago, Ghartark said:

Trainer rematches earnings were nerfed into the ground.

They had to, 'new' currency influx is bad and creates inflaction, sometimes inflaction is healthy, but generally becomes a huge problem rather fast as we can currently see.

 

2 hours ago, Ghartark said:

Berrie farming keeps getting smashed left and right.

What I wrote above, thankfully they removed.

 

2 hours ago, Ghartark said:

Amulet coin became a consumable that is a pain in the ass to get, because you almost inmediatly after release nerfed any good spots to farm them efficiently by removing it from persian.

To remove the BiS (Best in Slot) syndrome, also you earn more than before and easily pay for the amulet everytime you use it, so where's the problem really?



You know something you're always free to do? Quit.
 

1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

I'm not too familiar with Berry Farming so I can't speak too much on this. Perhaps you could clarify more what you mean?

To avoid spamming this thread and maybe derailing, if needed hmu on discord Xela, I can explain you pretty much everything about it.

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6 minutes ago, razimove said:

You know something you're always free to do? Quit.

Even if someone is wrong, or you're sick of hearing a complaint. This suggestion helps nobody, well, unless your objective is to eventually have the game and the community become a dead echo chamber. Which if that's the case, by all means keep telling people to leave because they don't universally love every change.

 

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Just now, Pizzachu said:

Even if someone is wrong, or you're sick of hearing a complaint. This suggestion helps nobody, well, unless your objective is to eventually have the game and the community become a dead echo chamber. Which if that's the case, by all means keep telling people to leave because they don't universally love every change.

 

Game is fine, if he's unhappy, or he finds this unhealthy for him to be here, he's free to quit. Ofc he is also free to complain, they still haven't invented taxes for that.

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Generally a large volume of people complaining about different things and the same six or so people coming into each thread to argue in circles with them isn't indicative of "fine". But if you feel it is then i more then respect your right to that opinion.

 

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Only a small percentage of our population visit the forums and voice their opinions. We have a much larger data set for which we research topics and make decisions which we do not provide publicly. We appreciate your concerns but will not be making drastic changes in the near future but tweaking can always occur without notice.

 

Also in regards to the population question our server has a very healthy population and we are not decreasing in numbers over time we are increasing or staying level for a long time now.

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1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

Benefit to the new way Amulet Coin and Lucky Egg are handled is that you no longer need to use up a held item spot on your team to get the buff, which is huge. You also skip over that it was buffed back to +50% money gain as opposed to the permanent buff of +10%.

This is not objectively true, not holding an Amulet coin does not change anything when it comes to Gyms run because of the animations and puzzles.

Also Amulet coin was 30% money gain from what I remember. What is fact however, is that after the update you lost the freedom to money grind the way you like.

 

To be right we have to talk about money/time. You can make 1 million a day, but if you have to play for 10 hours this means you only get 100K/hour.

Which is more average than anything else. When you add the time farming for Amulet coins, you realise that your money gains doing Gyms actually dropped after the update.

 

Talking about "healthy gameplay", when forcing the player to rush for an hour to get the most of an item, does not seem right.

The update made the game feel like repetitive grinding is actual content, rather than a way to access content, and it can get frustrating over time.

This is just my opinion as a casual player.

 

 

24 minutes ago, razimove said:

You know something you're always free to do? Quit

I hope you're trolling when posting this kind of comment.

 

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34 minutes ago, axx said:

We have a very healthy and beautiful HUGE population, believe me!

if anymore negative nerfs/"balances" come, that'll be sure to change.

Starting with the one who made this thread in the first place.

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38 minutes ago, Zuladra said:

I hope you're trolling when posting this kind of comment.

I'm not, you, me, anyone else, we're just a number in the big pool they have. Who cares if you quit the game, just do it if you're unhappy.

 

1 hour ago, Squirtle said:

making drastic changes

What would you consider a drastic change Squirtle? For example, the genderless breeding, hidden power mechanics were pretty drastic, yes they're good ones, not complaining about that. 

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1 hour ago, Zuladra said:

This is not objectively true, not holding an Amulet coin does not change anything when it comes to Gyms run because of the animations and puzzles.

Also Amulet coin was 30% money gain from what I remember. What is fact however, is that after the update you lost the freedom to money grind the way you like.

Animations and puzzles are a part of the beast entirely. I never once discounted those at all. The benefit of not needing to hold an amulet coin means you are free to run a full team of 6 without needing to dedicate one to holding Amulet Coin and making sure it appears in the battle, a restriction on the old amulet coin. It doesn't speed anything up, but rather allows you more flexibility in team building, which is a good thing. Remember that time is only consumed when you are logged in, so you can always stockpile a few, grind how you want to grind, and then log out. The only thing you need to account for in this is knowing roughly how long it will take you personally to complete where you are grinding with Amulet Coin so that you can stock what you need, plus a bit more. Does it mean more effort is required? Sure, effort is always something that should be taken into account. You never lost any freedom, you just lost a permanent buff that removed one slot from your team for rematches.

 

1 hour ago, Zuladra said:

To be right we have to talk about money/time. You can make 1 million a day, but if you have to play for 10 hours this means you only get 100K/hour.

Which is more average than anything else. When you add the time farming for Amulet coins, you realise that your money gains doing Gyms actually dropped after the update.

There are handy tips in there to getting Amulet Coin easily without spending a bunch of money. As with any mechanic change, you should figure out how to make it work for you rather than base everything off of a superficial observation.

 

1 hour ago, Zuladra said:

Talking about "healthy gameplay", when forcing the player to rush for an hour to get the most of an item, does not seem right.

The update made the game feel like repetitive grinding is actual content, rather than a way to access content, and it can get frustrating over time.

This is just my opinion as a casual player.

I'm about as casual as you can get with this game. I tried out with Small Lucky Egg about a week ago. I was able to gain 2-3 levels in 30 minutes farming hordes of Piloswine in Giant Chasm, which yield ~6k-7k exp per horde. This was on something over level 90. Had I not been splitting my attention between farming and chatting with people I could have easily seen larger level gains on that run. Mind you, that was just a Small Lucky Egg. It all depends on how you approach things as to what your gains will be. If you spend a large amount of that time AFK your gains will decrease and you will find yourself putting in more time and effort than players who are actively playing the whole time. In my case, I was AFK ~20-30% of the run, which is significant with respect to the time allotted. I have yet to farm Amulet Coin, but I'd wager I'd see similar results with that item if I approached farming with it in the same manner.

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26 minutes ago, razimove said:

I'm not, you, me, anyone else, we're just a number in the big pool they have. Who cares if you quit the game, just do it if you're unhappy.

Thank you for bringing us the obvious fact. « Who cares if you quit the game » this kind of comment is irrelevant to any discussion, and sounds like what a dictator or a frustrated kid would say.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Zuladra said:

Thank you for bringing us the obvious fact. « Who cares if you quit the game » this kind of comment is irrelevant to any discussion, and sounds like what a dictator or a frustrated kid would say.

Since you really seem like you need people to state you the obvious, it's the exact opposite, I couldn't care less if you play or not. Also stop derailing this thread. 

 

7 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

Animations and puzzles are a part of the beast entirely. I never once discounted those at all. The benefit of not needing to hold an amulet coin means you are free to run a full team of 6 without needing to dedicate one to holding Amulet Coin and making sure it appears in the battle,

Exactly this. Only current downside, is that the 'usage' is by timer, not by battles, if it was by battles it would be something slightly more fair, and would balance the value per amulet coin for everyone, doens't matter if you're new or have proper teams to speed gyms. Ofc it existing in the game does create a standard, where you pretty much want to have them whenever you're doing gyms, but that's fine, it's common in most mmos to have items like this.

Edited by razimove

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Wow, Another thread complaining about the same 6 things. Even if you don't realize it if you buy two amulet coins PER all 23 gyms you will make the SAME MONEY if not a little more than before the update rolled out, If you frisk for two amulet coins before gym runs you make even more money than before the update. Do your research before complaining about an update that you haven't fully experienced yet.

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1 hour ago, AustinMMO said:

If you frisk for two amulet coins before gym runs you make even more money than before the update.

This is not entirely true, since you are spending time farming the ACs.

If you sold those ACs you would get the additional value, but in using them you are losing money.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, AustinMMO said:

Do your research before complaining about an update that you haven't fully experienced yet.

I don't know if that was directed to me but let me answer.

About Gyms rematch and Amulet coin, I have posted some comments on the subject, trying to explain the other aspects as-well that are not money-related.

I was not alone to share that opinion from what I could read on the multiple posts that were created after the update.

People really put a lot of though into their comments, digging deeply into the subject, and that was really pleasant to read.

 

In 1h30-45 you could make around 300K (all Gyms plus Morimoto), and you needed about 3-4 rounds to up any poke to level 100.

By that time you had enough cash to breed a 5.31 natured poke (buying all the breeders and everstone). And the cycle went on.

That's only regarding the money part.

 

Also this is exactly the case :

4 hours ago, axx said:

This is not entirely true, since you are spending time farming the ACs.

If you sold those ACs you would get the additional value, but in using them you are losing money.

 

Concerning the social/personal aspect.

You could stop in-between your run to have a battle with a teammate, or to participate in events.

That did not feel like a "must do/boring" step unlike Amulet coin grinding is now.

You got money and exp with no extra unnecessary step involved. And doing battle other than single OU..

That let you more time to play the actually game : Breeding, PVP, global chat funny talks and so on.

 

Any average player could do it after a while. And it felt like a rewarding thing to do because it let you slowly expand your team.

I don't really understand how this would crush the economy to the point it needed a downgrade.

You were just making few pokes to participate PVP events and to have fun battles with friends.

Of course you can always build a cheap team and there is nothing wrong about it.

It's just preferences and I personally enjoy to breed from scratch a perfect comp, and level it up to 100.

The new Amulet coin mechanic does not add-up well to that process in my opinion.

 

Now Gyms run feels more like a stressful and never-ending grinding quest.

 

As stated by the devs, there will be no going back, so the discussion is closed I guess.

Edited by Zuladra

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Posted (edited)

I buy my amuletcoin on gtl and i make more money from gym runs than before.The -30k cost of amulet coin i spent included of course.

Amuletcoin used to give 25% and now it gives 50%.And the lead pokemon does not need to have a useless for battle item anymore(amuletcoin).

It helps kill faster in some situations with the opportunity to use a good item now.

 

The only thing that i dont like is that i cant be as relaxed about gyms runs now than before.Like before i could just half pay attention and read on the internet or something while waiting for opponent pokes to faint.

 

 

 

Edited by MightyBoxer

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@SquirtleHey Boss. I'm fan of pokemon cartoon. So I play this game. I don't have any problem with this game. Especially last updates amazing. Thanks everyone who thought them and make it real. I have some small wishes.

Spoiler


For competitive, new tiers. Like PU.

And custom pokedex, we can group some pokes we chose , or 'show Ice pokes'.

And rankings of tournaments. If you won 1 round= 1 point ,bla bla. Yearly, Season.

 

For gameplay, In-game tips, like last updates. How to change hidden power. bla bla. This can be nice for new players.

And being able to create notes to myself to read later.

Custom bag....

Maybe being able use all secret bases. And bases at other regions. No idea.

Rewarding players with more than 1000h gameplay with an unique untradeble vanity maybe.

 

Aye, well just wanted to throw everything in my mind. Ty.

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19 minutes ago, FinnTheMember said:

@SquirtleHey Boss. I'm fan of pokemon cartoon. So I play this game. I don't have any problem with this game. Especially last updates amazing. Thanks everyone who thought them and make it real. I have some small wishes.

  Hide contents

 

For competitive, new tiers. Like PU.

And custom pokedex, we can group some pokes we chose , or 'show Ice pokes'.

And rankings of tournaments. If you won 1 round= 1 point ,bla bla. Yearly, Season.

 

For gameplay, In-game tips, like last updates. How to change hidden power. bla bla. This can be nice for new players.

And being able to create notes to myself to read later.

Custom bag....

Maybe being able use all secret bases. And bases at other regions. No idea.

Rewarding players with more than 1000h gameplay with an unique untradeble vanity maybe.

 

Aye, well just wanted to throw everything in my mind. Ty.

Have you ever seen a forum area named suggestion box?

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21 hours ago, Squirtle said:

Only a small percentage of our population visit the forums and voice their opinions. We have a much larger data set for which we research topics and make decisions which we do not provide publicly. We appreciate your concerns but will not be making drastic changes in the near future but tweaking can always occur without notice.

 

Also in regards to the population question our server has a very healthy population and we are not decreasing in numbers over time we are increasing or staying level for a long time now.

Woo! its nice to see this said!  I'm super happy that PokeMMO is seeing growth!!!! its an amazing game and preach about it to pretty much everyone but my wife.  Shes kind of sick of hearing about it!!

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34 minutes ago, MoxieMozzie said:

Woo! its nice to see this said!  I'm super happy that PokeMMO is seeing growth!!!! its an amazing game and preach about it to pretty much everyone but my wife.  Shes kind of sick of hearing about it!!

With all these nerfs/"balances" coming, I'm pretty sure that fact could easily change.

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27 minutes ago, blankf4ce said:

I struggle to see how some of you can still support the changes being made to the game, they are so overwhelmingly negative. The staff say things like "it's good the way it is" to our complaints, and the reasonable suggestions we make, like finally fixing pursuit, are neglected while they make unrequested changes to try and make more money off of us. At this point you're not just sucking them off, you are getting willfully violated in every orifice, especially the eyes and the ears. If you enjoy playing this game, you should want to see positive changes being made, like the introduction of cute charm. This was a positive change made in the right direction, as the introduction of more out of battle abilities like magnet pull and static would be great for the game. Instead, you decide to support the negative changes they make to support them because you like the game, which is understandable, but will never get you an improved game. Instead, they will think they can do whatever the want and people like you will still support them, effectively ruining the game forever, at least for those of us who do not want a P2W model. @MoxieMozzie I don't know who your wife is, but if she works for the game, and is sick of hearing about complaints, the proper action to take would be to listen to said complaints, and use them to try and produce and improved game, not just a source of income. People don't mind paying for things they enjoy. @Squirtle How do you research topics without hearing opinions directly from the mouths of your consumers? One could argue that a lot of the most active players are the ones who do visit the forums, and their opinions would probably be more accurate as they play the game more often. Those who have not reached the end-game yet do not really understand how the changes being made will affect them in the long run. If they continue playing the game, and if they do not, then they aren't really the target audience for the changes you make are they? 

@Ghartark I just disagreed with an administrator, so don't be surprised if your thread gets locked and possibly moved to the trash.  I'm sorry for that, but they weren't going to listen to you anyway. 

@whichever mod inevitably sees me posting again, and locks this thread, how do you have time to do this, but no time to respond to my ban appeal or my messages? Also how did you completely delete the post that caused the ban to begin with? This seems to be the only way to get your attention. 

I mean there alot of people on forum who are satisfied with the updates or atleast thought they had to be done, even if they dont like them. But it seems do be easier for you to disregard these opinions as they are „just sucking the devs off“. 

 

The truth is theres actually a minority which doesnt have an understanding of why they were made and you are the loudest voice of this minority throwing one tantrum after another, talking about leaving the game and showing up again every two days.

 

Why do you even suspect your so called suggestions to get any kind of positive feedback by devs or community with this childish behaviour?

 

 

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