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August-Movement Discussion Thread


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8 minutes ago, Laz said:

I wonder what's broken, Deepseatooth or Arena trap, i have my lil guess.

You started by saying Misdreavus is the issue. Now you're talking about Deepseatooth. What do you want banned? Misdreavus? Deepseatooth? Both? Nothing? 

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3 minutes ago, gbwead said:

You started by saying Misdreavus is the issue. Now you're talking about Deepseatooth. What do you want banned? Misdreavus? Deepseatooth? Both? Nothing? 

Nothing, but I'd want Arena trap banned if Diglet somehow gets a usage similar to Misdreavus, maybe people don't use gimmicks such as ekans not in fear of being trapped by diglet, but because there are better mons worth running.

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7 hours ago, TohnR said:

Technically Archeops moves from Untiered to NU in the dex since its usage is over 6.7% r-right ?

Didn't bother looking, figured I'd handle untiered on a 3 month basis with the weighted usage since its legit not an actual tier.

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4 minutes ago, Munya said:

gbwead has suggested that we ban Misd, Mienfoo, and Clamperl, anybody object?

Definitely reasonable discussions each of those but can we get some context/explanation for each of them individually or as a group? Besides, I sort of even agree with the point of Diglett being a massive support to Mienfoo and Clamperl by trapping their counters, so what's the case with Diglett now?

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Well here is my suggestion:

Unban Murkrow + Scraggy, and complex ban Moxie+Zen headbutt + Super Luck.

Maybe banning Deepseatooth as well.

I think that would drastically drop Misdreavus + Mienfoo + Clamperl's usage

and would somehow balance things without having to ban any mon.

E: I wouldn't mind banning Arena trap on Diglet as well if that'd fix the meta further.

Trapinch should get to keep it since it is very slow and fails to trap stuff like chinchou anyway.

Edited by Laz
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5 minutes ago, Laz said:

Well here is my suggestion:

Unban Murkrow + Scraggy, and complex ban Moxie+Zen headbutt + Super Luck.

Maybe banning Deepseatooth as well.

I think that would drastically drop Misdreavus + Mienfoo + Clamperl's usage

and would somehow balance things without having to ban any mon.

18 minutes ago, Laz said:

is this a joke ? XD

 

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21 minutes ago, Laz said:

Still better than yours, XD

Why complex ban moxie, zen headbutt? why not ban dd? or ban crunch? There are many ways to nerf Scraggy with complex bans. How can a specific nerf be justified compared to another? That's why complex banning is a terrible idea.

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Oh my god they all want ban, nerf, anything they don't know how to fight xD. Use your head to play and not to cry so much. If the climates bother you, use golduck, if the trapers bother you, use ghosts, if you are bothered by powerful scarf, use walls. Easy.

I find it really surprising that as the tier goes down, the number of teams analyzed drops considerably, it is clear that a change, a motivation is needed, something that encourages more people to play with other tiers, goes from 49396 OU teams to 1350 NU, the comp is very sad xD.

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1 minute ago, Cacha said:

Oh my god they all want ban, nerf, anything they don't know how to fight xD. Use your head to play and not to cry so much. If the climates bother you, use golduck, if the trapers bother you, use ghosts, if you are bothered by powerful scarf, use walls. Easy.

I stopped reading here, sorry bruh but it doesn't look like discussion threads are for you

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5 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

I stopped reading here, sorry bruh but it doesn't look like discussion threads are for you

How funny, I think rpg is not for anyone too. However, here it is full of people who think from their personal inadequacy to solve problems and a pejorative perspective.

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Tbh I'm fine with the current meta the way it is, but reading Gbwead's suggestion i cannot help but assume that there are problems indeed with Misdreavus, Mienfoo, and Clamperl, that's why i gave an alternative suggestion so that instead of banning 3 mons, we unban 2 others that deal with them and will drop their usage, and somehow nerf what made them bannable at the first place.

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I've noticed a trend throughout the span of this game, that low usage is almost ALWAYS used to defend trapping mons from the banhammer. Usage is something to look at, certainly, but it's not the entire case. You can't just say "oh its low usage, can't ban it" just like you can't say something is high usage, so it must be banned. The ban criteria are there for a reason.

 

The focus should probably be on whether diglett, and really arena trap as a whole, is uncompetitive. And the answer is, yes, it clearly is. It takes an enormous amount of autonomy away from individual players - the ability to switch out is a very important tool in competitive player's arsenal. The follow up question, though, which tends to set things like arena trap and shadow tag apart from, say, magnet pull or mean look, is this: is it SO uncompetitive that it's banworthy? Does this lack of autonomy actually hurt the healthiness of the tier?

 

I think anyone who has been around long enough should knwo by now that the remedy for a potential unhealthy mon, is a suspect test. There are certainly some issues with LC right now, usage CAN tell us that. Maybe it's worth it to observe the tier for a month without diglett? See if that lessens the impact of some of the problematic offensive threats as GB suggests it might. There are other suspects which could also be useful, too, but that's still up for discussion

 

3 minutes ago, Cacha said:

How funny, I think rpg is not for anyone too. However, here it is full of people who think from their personal inadequacy to solve problems and a pejorative perspective.

I think you're someone who is using personal adequacy as a substitute for real arguments. If you ever say something here like "lol you guys just dont know how to play" you're gonna be brushed aside, because that's a horrible fucking argument. do better

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Just now, Cacha said:

How funny, I think rpg is not for anyone too. However, here it is full of people who think from their personal inadequacy to solve problems and a pejorative perspective.

Discussion threads such as this are made for discussing potentially OP threats in a certain metagame. It always has been like that, through many years, in literally every competitive community- this includes ours. Argument "git gud" is usually used by people who got absolutely no clue about either competitive play or discussion threads (or even both), especially if it comes out from someone who cannot really show off any personal accolades. Maybe Frags, Nik or LifeStyle could say the "git gud" phrase and it would have a way different tone.

 

We discuss threats based on multiple different stands- unhealthy, overcentralizing, uber support/ offensive/ defensive. It's incredibly alarming if usage of 2 pokemons in the metagame goes over 50% and for LC, we got one threat which sits on astonishing 74% usage which is probably the highest usage mon in PokeMMO history and second on 61%. These mons are too good not to use; therefore they make the metagame become stagnant, and that's something we want to avoid.

 

As much as my previous posts were only pointing out the obvious (especially the scarf Bouffalant), that much I would like to see every metagame becoming healthy and enjoyable for everyone- although LC is not really my tier and I cannot discuss anything more as much as I'd like to.

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4 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

I think you're someone who is using personal adequacy as a substitute for real arguments. If you ever say something here like "lol you guys just dont know how to play" you're gonna be brushed aside, because that's a horrible fucking argument. do better

Ahahahaha, no no, I did not say that, I said that there is a large amount of the current population that if it is in that range, and thinks, of course, why it is free, and it is fine, but let's accept it. That was not the message anyway, I continue reading seeing how the matter is going, I do not want to divert the subject, it was only an opinion based on everything I have been reading. Because believe it, yes, I read them all.

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