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Nerf Berry Farming


Raichuforyou

Question

I feel like this is a controversial topic since I think a LOT of people get a good bulk of their money from farming berries, but I feel the system as a whole needs to be revamped. It's hard to draw objective comparisons between passive berry farming work and busywork like Gym Leader rematches, hunting for certain items, etc, but for the time invested into berry farming compared to most other forms of grinding in the game, it just seems that berry farming has way too much of a yen edge on any other form of grinding or farming currently. Like I said, this is an odd position to compare two different money making methods, because one requires you revisiting the same plots of land in a specific timeframe a few times in order to obtain your yen, while the other can be done at any other given time. But for the raw amount of time invested compared between the two regardless, farming berries always seems to come out on top.

I don't necessarily think that berry farming should even be nerfed down to be equal in terms of the time invested to yen payout ratio for doing for example, gym rematches. I certainly think it should be paying you out more for investing your time in an odd way to where you have to revisit berry patches at specific times. It's a very unique activity. The problem is that I think it's been so much better than any other money making method in the game that it has turned into just the way to make yen.

I honestly don't know what to specifically provide here as an example for the nerf either; if it were in the form of lower sell prices, lesser yields, longer grow times (unpreferable), but I feel something has to be done. I also understand that the mod/admin team cannot come out and say that they would consider a nerf since it would singlehandedly cause an awkward rush in the market so... just discuss if you're in favor of this, I suppose?



 

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13 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

Ask yourself this: Why do berries get the privilege of being the only farmable item in the game that have a pretty respectable sell rate? Why is there no guaranteed 10K everstone shop buyer? NPC's who buy shards for 20K?

 

 

Alright well, i asked you a question first tho. You want the option of NPCs buying your berries at $600-$1050 removed, for what reason? What will that accomplish? The extremely rare vanities are not going to drop because of this, the newer vanities won't reach the same heights because of that option disappearing/existing.

 

Berries aren't the only farmable item in the game with this privilege. I'm not exactly keen on telling you some others, but this is just inaccurate. Even the type-enhancing items sell for more to NPCs than the berries, which in some cases (poison barb, miracle seed come to mind) is in fact the better option than GTL imo. Berries are just "easier" to obtain in large quantities. 

 

0efe1a0ee24c3b75c031d55657f98200.png 

Here's a picture of people farming items for the sole purpose of selling them to NPCs. And if you have the proper tools for it, a pretty damn good option if you ask me. 

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4 hours ago, Minks said:

But I still don't understand the problem here.

Do you not understand what inflation is? We have millions & millions being brought into the game every day with no real money sinks. The Chinese have billions now & yen has lost all real value. Sure, berry farming is great for people like you who are too lazy to play the game, but it kills the economy in the process. I make millions off this & could be selfish by staying quiet & just continuing to get rich at the cost of the economy but I'd actually like for this game to improve. 

 

3 minutes ago, Minks said:

What will that accomplish?

NPCs buying berries is just a money generator. That money isn't coming from anywhere, it's being put into the game every time you sell to an NPC. This is why we have so much money in the game & removing it would slow down the inflation. You could argue that rebattling NPCs does the same, which it does, but not nearly at the same rate & not nearly as easily. 

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17 minutes ago, ImFunk said:

NPCs buying berries is just a money generator. That money isn't coming from anywhere, it's being put into the game every time you sell to an NPC. This is why we have so much money in the game & removing it would slow down the inflation. You could argue that rebattling NPCs does the same, which it does, but not nearly at the same rate & not nearly as easily. 

Yes and generating money has been a thing forever. That's why it's already been nerfed, that's why islandruns were a thing, that's why gymrematches exist. Now it's berryfarming. When i ask "what will removing this accomplish?" im implying that the items/mons that have gone up because of inflation, won't come back down if you remove this option. 

 

Not too long ago, the main complaint was that money was too hard to obtain. Now everything you need to play the game is affordable and we have a reliable way of making money. On the other hand, the rare vanities have skyrocketed in price, but it's silly to just blame that on berryfarming. With the influx of new players demand has been raised, with the years that have passed since those items were obtainable, supply has diminished. If anything, the berries-to-NPC mechanic has just sped up an inevitable process.

 

So yes, I don't see the problem but more importantly, I don't see a solution in removing/nerfing this, for the problem you and others do see. And ehh, "too lazy" huh? Ironic Paul. 

Edited by Minks
had to rephrase a bit
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21 minutes ago, Minks said:

Yes and generating money has been a thing forever.

Something existing forever doesn't make it a good thing. That's exactly why NPCs were nerfed two years ago & why they tried, but failed, to nerf berries before. 

 

21 minutes ago, Minks said:

On the other hand, the rare vanities have skyrocketed in price

I agree that the supply/demand has the biggest impact on vanities but as I said before there are players with billions of dollars now because of farming. An example is the few players with Labcoats who are holding them & waiting as these few players continue to make more and more money. They can, and will, just continue to raise these items prices because they know the buyers are continuing to make millions each day. This makes it impossible for anyone else to buy these & other rare items. 

 

21 minutes ago, Minks said:

And ehh, "too lazy" huh? Ironic Paul. 

I farmed NPCs every day & items for 4 hours/day for a year & I've been farming berries every day for 2 months so unless I'm missing something you have the wrong idea of me. 

Edited by ImFunk
epic typos
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10 minutes ago, ImFunk said:

Something existing forever doesn't make it a good thing. That's exactly why NPCs were nerfed two years ago & why they tried, but failed, to nerf berries before. 

 

I agree that the supply/demand has the biggest impact on vanities but as I said before there are players with billions of dollars now because of farming. An example is the few players with Labcoats who are holding them & waiting as these few players continue to make more and more money. They can, and will, just continue to raise these items prices because they know the buyers are continuing to make millions each day. This makes it impossible for anyone else to buy these & other rare items. 

Well, it's not a bad thing either. The ability to generate money has to exist. Preferably one that isn't as boring, braindead & timeconsuming as gymruns. I genuinely believe that nerfing berryfarming even more won't fix the inflated vanity prices. Right now there's somewhat of a level playing field. If you want to do so, you can be one of those people farming berries on 10 accounts for 40 hours a week. If you take that away now, the players that have been doing that and the ones holding those rare vanities have an even bigger advantage. 

 

One more thing i'd like to add is that i also believe the people farming on 10 accounts are still a minority. If you nerf berries further, it will still be profitable for them (but less), but it won't be profitable at all for people like you and me who do it on 2-3 accounts. Not to mention the people doing it on just 1 account. 

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2 minutes ago, Minks said:

Preferably one that isn't as boring, braindead & timeconsuming as gymruns.

Right, logging in and pressing my watering pail hotkey 500 times is very exciting. 

 

3 minutes ago, Minks said:

If you take that away now, the players that have been doing that and the ones holding those rare vanities have an even bigger advantage. 

You can go both ways on this. If I have 300m and want to buy a labcoat, there is no possible way of me catching up to the people with billions who farm on multiple alts. On the other hand, if it's nerfed/removed, there would be no easy way to make money & would make it more difficult to catch up to everyone else. So either way I'm fucked. 

 

So although nerfing berries wouldn't change much with vanities, it would still solve the problem of too much money being brought into the game, and not enough being taken out. 

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Minks said:

Well, it's not a bad thing either. The ability to generate money has to exist. Preferably one that isn't as boring, braindead & timeconsuming as gymruns. I genuinely believe that nerfing berryfarming even more won't fix the inflated vanity prices. Right now there's somewhat of a level playing field. If you want to do so, you can be one of those people farming berries on 10 accounts for 40 hours a week. If you take that away now, the players that have been doing that and the ones holding those rare vanities have an even bigger advantage. 

 

One more thing i'd like to add is that i also believe the people farming on 10 accounts are still a minority. If you nerf berries further, it will still be profitable for them (but less), but it won't be profitable at all for people like you and me who do it on 2-3 accounts. Not to mention the people doing it on just 1 account. 

I don't think you understand. Nobody is arguing you cannot do berry farming with these proposed changes to make your money. You would still be able to sell your berries to the GTS instead of a NPC, which reduces the amount of yen being produced in the economy, and goes back to the gold standard that yen can only be produced as fast as one can do gym runs/nugget farming.

 

This is the part I don't think you understand. In a yen creation aspect, berry selling had massively rocked the economy in terms of how much yen can be produced efficiently in a certain amount of time. In literally any econ course ever, they will tell you that creating more money in an economy causes inflation. 

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37 minutes ago, ImFunk said:

Right, logging in and pressing my watering pail hotkey 500 times is very exciting. 

 

You can go both ways on this. If I have 300m and want to buy a labcoat, there is no possible way of me catching up to the people with billions who farm on multiple alts. On the other hand, if it's nerfed/removed, there would be no easy way to make money & would make it more difficult to catch up to everyone else. So either way I'm fucked. 

 

 

 

Oh no it's boring af, but at least its something that only takes 20 minutes, then you do other stuff, then another 20 minutes etc. Opposed to spending an hour and a half doing the same boring thing.  

 

And right. 

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57 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

I don't think you understand. Nobody is arguing you cannot do berry farming with these proposed changes to make your money. You would still be able to sell your berries to the GTS instead of a NPC, which reduces the amount of yen being produced in the economy, and goes back to the gold standard that yen can only be produced as fast as one can do gym runs/nugget farming.

 

This is the part I don't think you understand. In a yen creation aspect, berry selling had massively rocked the economy in terms of how much yen can be produced efficiently in a certain amount of time. In literally any econ course ever, they will tell you that creating more money in an economy causes inflation. 

I understand perfectly fine, thank you for your concern. I've discussed it with multiple people here now, i feel that's more productive than doing it with you. No offense. 

 

To use Funk's words: In regards to the old vanities (which really imo is the only bad effect of all this); you're fucked either way. 

Edited by Minks
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1 hour ago, Minks said:

I understand perfectly fine, thank you for your concern. I've discussed it with multiple people here now, i feel that's more productive than doing it with you. No offense. 

 

To use Funk's words: In regards to the old vanities (which really imo is the only bad effect of all this); you're fucked either way. 

No offense but I feel like you don't understand this from an economic point of view at all. PokeMMO is an interesting case of an economy where the users can generate the currency themselves, but like other online economies, there are usually ways to destroy this currency (bands, shops, TM prices, etc) to prevent inflation. If the original rate that yen came into the game pre berry selling was balanced with the money sinks in such a way that it caused a 1 to 1, you don't experience any inflation. While I doubt that it was equal as prices has always crept up a tiny amount, it was decently close.

 

I don't get why you can't see that a more efficient yen making activity with no additional money sinks added into the game isn't an instant recipe for inflation. The fact that in an earlier comment that you brushed off the 1000% price increase of a limited vanity due to S/D is laughable; this doesn't even happen in the real world to a good without the aid of hyperinflation.

 

Pretty much your argument has come down to "I don't like the other ways to make yen in this game, I have no regard for the economy, plz don't change", despite the fact that I've said already that the rate that yen being acquired from berry selling should be more than a gym run. Just not at the current point where it is now, where it is more than three times efficient to use your time berry farming.

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4 hours ago, Minks said:

Well, that's just the way it works tho doesn't it? If you buy flowers irl, put them in a pot and then go on vacation for 2 weeks, your plant is gonna die. This is why i'm not buying the whole comparing it to gyms and time put in argument, if you're gonna force yourself to stick to a schedule, you should be rewarded for it. Trust me, if the reward here sucked, no one would do this, definitely not on multiple alts. 

 

As far as dungeons are concerned, based on the info we/i have right now (and correct me if i'm wrong here) it would include hidden abilities and possibly legendaries, which is a completely different incentive than moneymaking. 

See, I disagree that logging in at 12 hour intervals should be rewarding. That's just stupid game design in my opinion. If only Dasu actually had talent in making video games, smh.

Playing pokemon should be rewarding. Working with others should be rewarding. Logging in and spamming the wailmer pail should not be rewarding; at least to the extent that it is now.

 

In a Pokemon MMO, many people spend most of their time growing berries... There's just something wrong with that picture.

 

As for your comment about dungeons, sure it is about hidden abilities and legendaries, but once you obtain those, why do dungeons? I was always under the impression that dungeons would become the best way to make money, while being fun and interactive; i.e. some sort of consumable loot found in dungeons that is highly desired.

 

In my mind, the best possible money making method in the game should have the following qualities:

  • Working in a group amplifies the reward
  • Fun and challenging, you actually have to think or be highly skilled to complete the task and get the best possible reward
  • Time to complete the task only takes about 10-15mins and is repeatable (short time means that everyone should be able to participate regardless of irl situations; it's also friendlier to players working in groups, cause there's less of a risk of losing a party member in the middle of the task).
  • The task isn't always completed in the same amount of time, i.e. you can make multiple optimizing moves in order to achieve a better time (this plays into the skill and allows for speed-running, aka, makes it competitive between players)
  • Is focused around the core mechanics of Pokemon. Battling, puzzle solving, etc.
  • Has a barrier to entry that you have to work towards obtaining and not something so simple as paying X amount of yen.

And, in my mind, Dungeons will hit every single one of these points if done right. While, Berry farming hits literally zero of them (maybe it hits the last one, but I don't really consider the storyline to be a barrier to entry >.>).

 

I'm fine with berry farming being a passive money making thing that you just do on the side, but it being good enough that people are spamming alts to take advantage of it is bad. A good money making method should be engaging enough that working two accounts at the same time should be extremely difficult. If people are drawn to using multiple accounts at the same time, it's a sign of bad game design.

 

But, hey, in a couple months if nothing changes, I will probably be able to sell my labcoat for 15bil, so that's cool :)

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1 hour ago, Gilan said:

See, I disagree that logging in at 12 hour intervals should be rewarding. That's just stupid game design in my opinion. If only Dasu actually had talent in making video games, smh.

Playing pokemon should be rewarding. Working with others should be rewarding. Logging in and spamming the wailmer pail should not be rewarding; at least to the extent that it is now.

 

In a Pokemon MMO, many people spend most of their time growing berries... There's just something wrong with that picture.

 

As for your comment about dungeons, sure it is about hidden abilities and legendaries, but once you obtain those, why do dungeons? I was always under the impression that dungeons would become the best way to make money, while being fun and interactive; i.e. some sort of consumable loot found in dungeons that is highly desired.

 

In my mind, the best possible money making method in the game should have the following qualities:

  • Working in a group amplifies the reward
  • Fun and challenging, you actually have to think or be highly skilled to complete the task and get the best possible reward
  • Time to complete the task only takes about 10-15mins and is repeatable (short time means that everyone should be able to participate regardless of irl situations; it's also friendlier to players working in groups, cause there's less of a risk of losing a party member in the middle of the task).
  • The task isn't always completed in the same amount of time, i.e. you can make multiple optimizing moves in order to achieve a better time (this plays into the skill and allows for speed-running, aka, makes it competitive between players)
  • Is focused around the core mechanics of Pokemon. Battling, puzzle solving, etc.
  • Has a barrier to entry that you have to work towards obtaining and not something so simple as paying X amount of yen.

And, in my mind, Dungeons will hit every single one of these points if done right. While, Berry farming hits literally zero of them (maybe it hits the last one, but I don't really consider the storyline to be a barrier to entry >.>).

 

I'm fine with berry farming being a passive money making thing that you just do on the side, but it being good enough that people are spamming alts to take advantage of it is bad. A good money making method should be engaging enough that working two accounts at the same time should be extremely difficult. If people are drawn to using multiple accounts at the same time, it's a sign of bad game design.

 

But, hey, in a couple months if nothing changes, I will probably be able to sell my labcoat for 15bil, so that's cool :)

I wholeheartly agree with you here. Although not on dungeons tho, for example for a shiny hunter, might be worthwhile to catch mons on the dungeon instead of outside, given that the inside mons will pack HA (since they're being uguu's and not providing us pills, forcing us to rebreed everything), so they might not die so early on. 

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Personal opinions, not an official response or anything:

I think that farming berries should not be the most optimal form of Pokeyen generation, and instead should be supplementary at best (i.e. at max they should be a little bonus on the side from a fairly low maintenance activity). Currently as people have mentioned it produces profits that exceed things such as Gym rematches etc.

Berry Sell prices (to NPC's) is an interesting issue because it creates a price floor where berries will not be sold for less than that on the GTL (which is a good thing) but because of alt usage it is causing problems where the "Do once a day" thing has become a "Do all day to keep getting profit" issue.
Removal of berry sell prices would prevent berries from contributing to inflation, however this would effect the market for how much berries sell for and could result in berries being ridiculously cheap on the GTL since there's no longer a price floor that they can't drop below (making farming berries for sale on the GTL not very appealing). Personally I do think berries becoming hyper cheap is worth the prevention of continued inflation from mass alt sales, but just mentioning the downside this change would cause.

From a "This feels bad" stand point, I also think something regarding berries being sold to NPCs needs to be changed because I don't think it's fair to expect players to have to have to get 10+ alts through Hoenn / Unova in order to fly around planting berries all day. That does not sound fun but it is currently one of the best yen generation methods, inevitably if this is changed we will have people complain that "I spent so long getting all these alts ready to berry farm and you remove their sell price making it pointless!" or something so not everyone will be happy if this is changed the way it has been suggested but I do think it is healthier for the game and healthier for the players as a whole (since I think alts should not be significant enough benefits to feel "Required".).

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2 hours ago, Matoka said:

if this is changed we will have people complain

That's what makes this topic difficult. So many people rely on and profit from berries, so even if they know it's bad for the game they won't really say anything as they make so much money from it.

 

Now I do have some hope that there are already plans for some kind of nerf, as they tried it in the past despite not doing much and Kyu said in a previous thread, "When it comes to discussing economic issues, we usually don't want to comment on specifics like this, because if I said in this moment "We're nerfing berries into the ground", the market would probably hyper-inflate as everyone rushes to get as much money as they can out of it."

 

That quote tells me they may already have a plan for a nerf or a mechanic change but aren't willing to tell us due to the effects it could have now. It's also common for them to wait until a massive content update (sinnoh) to add in smaller changes & mechanics. If this is the case I don't agree with waiting this long as it's just getting worse but better late than never.

 

Until that happens though I won't stop complaining about it. It's great for me but terrible for the economy & needs to be reworked or removed. 

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One thing people are not taking into consideration is that this whole 'generating yen from thin air' goes both ways. The same way someone can print money into existence through berries, the same way someone can create value through items and/or caught pokemons. This then goes to the extreme when someone drops a big amount of money on RP and creates millions in monetary value in form of gift shop items in seconds - and this honestly happens a lot(mostly in the chinese community). This is why completely nerfing the berry yen generation is not optimal either and I firmly believe that if NPC sell prices went to 0 we would just shift into a severe deflation, some might say that they wouldn't mind this but I disagree.

 

I think the best solution is to look at the empiric data of average yen created from all sources and compare it to the average amount of value created from items from all sources over the same timeframe. If they're balanced the prices should be stable and if they're not the prices will reflect that. If you look at the prices over the months all gift shop items went down, meaning the current yen generation couldn't sustain the item generation @ their previous prices.

 

If your goal is, however, to stabilize the old limiteds, this will indeed do nothing.

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42 minutes ago, Dazuzi said:

One thing people are not taking into consideration is that this whole 'generating yen from thin air' goes both ways. The same way someone can print money into existence through berries, the same way someone can create value through items and/or caught pokemons. This then goes to the extreme when someone drops a big amount of money on RP and creates millions in monetary value in form of gift shop items in seconds - and this honestly happens a lot(mostly in the chinese community). This is why completely nerfing the berry yen generation is not optimal either and I firmly believe that if NPC sell prices went to 0 we would just shift into a severe deflation, some might say that they wouldn't mind this but I disagree.

 

I think the best solution is to look at the empiric data of average yen created from all sources and compare it to the average amount of value created from items from all sources over the same timeframe. If they're balanced the prices should be stable and if they're not the prices will reflect that. If you look at the prices over the months all gift shop items went down, meaning the current yen generation couldn't sustain the item generation @ their previous prices.

 

If your goal is, however, to stabilize the old limiteds, this will indeed do nothing.

I'm sorry, you seem to have failed to understand the difference between player-player trading and player-NPC trading.

Items being traded to other players and pokemon themselves involved money moving from one player to another, a completely net neutral transaction for the amount of yen in circulation.

Berries are problematic because players have the option to trade them to NPC's for a fair price per unit, and receive many individual units.
Player-Player trading does not generate any yen from thin air, in fact trading through the GTL for pokemon is 100% yen removal from the economy because of the listing fees etc.

Purchasing any item with RP generates absolutely 0 Yen in the server, nothing from the Gift Shop has an in-game sell price to NPC's, and is not comparable to berries.

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50 minutes ago, Matoka said:

I'm sorry, you seem to have failed to understand the difference between player-player trading and player-NPC trading.

My point is that both of these extremes, one being buying items from the gift shop, second one being selling berries to an NPC, both create monetary value out of 'thin air' using a 3rd party in the first place and both can be used in player-to-player transactions on the market.

52 minutes ago, Matoka said:

Items being traded to other players and pokemon themselves involved money moving from one player to another, a completely net neutral transaction for the amount of yen in circulation.

Yes, but if the amount of yen in circulation becomes static or drastically lower, everything will fall in value, as yen becomes more valuable, thus causing deflation. The money has to come from somewhere in the end.

1 hour ago, Matoka said:

Berries are problematic because players have the option to trade them to NPC's for a fair price per unit and receive many individual units.

In the end it's just money generated, similar to gym runs, farming nuggets or paydaying, this one is just more efficient in regards to time spent, which is why further nerfs wouldn't be unjustified to preserve fairness.

 

If there wasn't this baseline set for each berry, most of them would be straight up worthless, I guess Nintendo is to blame for their poor individual design. If this baseline got removed, there would only be a handful of berries farmed and they would all tank in price very quickly as you mentioned earlier, whether this would be good or bad for the game is hard to say.

1 hour ago, Matoka said:

Player-Player trading does not generate any yen from thin air, in fact trading through the GTL for pokemon is 100% yen removal from the economy because of the listing fees etc.

I agree.

1 hour ago, Matoka said:

Purchasing any item with RP generates absolutely 0 Yen in the server, nothing from the Gift Shop has an in-game sell price to NPC's, and is not comparable to berries.

That's not what I said. I said that purchasing a trade-able item with RP generates millions in monetary value, not yen. I can understand why someone would think that it's not comparable to berries as you said, but I think there's a distinct connection.

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10 hours ago, Raichu4u said:

Pretty much your argument has come down to "I don't like the other ways to make yen in this game, I have no regard for the economy, plz don't change", despite the fact that I've said already that the rate that yen being acquired from berry selling should be more than a gym run. Just not at the current point where it is now, where it is more than three times efficient to use your time berry farming.

I've responded to the rest of your post before, you can keep repeating that "i dont understand", but i do. I'm just not giving the answers you like to hear. After this i'm done responding to you, there's no point. 

 

If by "making yen" you mean "generating yen"; Yes. I don't like the other ways of generating yen. Duh. Neither do you, you only made this thread because you're frustrated that doing gymruns isn't rewarding you at all. I obtain more money daily by doing things that aren't berryfarming, but if you were to remove the option to generate money, this would affect all other ways of obtaining money as well. Berries would be dirtcheap, items would drop in price even more since more people would resort to farming and the items that have actually been negatively affected by the inflation wouldn't drop in price, because the damage is done. Not to mention the fact that the people who are now farming berries on 10 alts, would do gymruns on those alts to still generate their money. Which means the only people you punish by this, are people like me, just farming on 2-3 accounts, who are not responsible for the inflation at all. 

 

The way i see it, there is no solution for bringing the prices of the old vanities back down. And if your viewpoint is that there's too much money being generated and that's a bad thing (which again, i dont agree on), then you have to look at the amount of alts being used, not the mechanic itself.

 

9 hours ago, Gilan said:

Logging in and spamming the wailmer pail should not be rewarding; at least to the extent that it is now.

 

 

I'm fine with berry farming being a passive money making thing that you just do on the side, but it being good enough that people are spamming alts to take advantage of it is bad. A good money making method should be engaging enough that working two accounts at the same time should be extremely difficult. If people are drawn to using multiple accounts at the same time, it's a sign of bad game design.

Well, rewarding in the sense that as far as generating money goes, sticking to a schedule should be more rewarding than doing gymruns whenever you feel like it. And as others have mentioned, generating money has to keep existing. I think you touched on the correct subject here, the alts. The way i see it tho, if there's a way to generate money, it will attract alts. If not berryfarming, the next best thing. 

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1 hour ago, Dazuzi said:

In the end it's just money generated, similar to gym runs, farming nuggets or paydaying, this one is just more efficient in regards to time spent, which is why further nerfs wouldn't be unjustified to preserve fairness.

I personally agree that they need nerfed, I was just musing about the fact people will inevitably complain about it being nerfed (if it is), which is not me trying to defend it from being nerfed but more so me just lamenting the infinite threads we'd see on forums regarding the topic from people who are upset.

 

1 hour ago, Dazuzi said:

My point is that both of these extremes, one being buying items from the gift shop, second one being selling berries to an NPC, both create monetary value out of 'thin air' using a 3rd party in the first place and both can be used in player-to-player transactions on the market.

That's not what I said. I said that purchasing a trade-able item with RP generates millions in monetary value, not yen. I can understand why someone would think that it's not comparable to berries as you said, but I think there's a distinct connection.

On an individual level, yes, a player can gain monetary value from exchanging RP for an item and then trading it in the same way he could obtain it by exchanging his time by grinding Gym Rematches etc. However this is not the same when you look at this on a sever-wide scale instead of individual level.

"Monetary Value" from things which are not yen itself cannot be generated in the same way as the raw currency, their monetary value adjusts based on how many of something there are perceived to be. Yen is different because it is tied to things directly, for instance 200 yen can never be worth less than 1 Pokeball because you could just turn the 200 yen into 1 Pokeball.

To give an example of why this sort of isn't the case for RP item's i'll make an oversimplified analogy:
For general "Supply and Demand" imagine that the Demand is how big a Cake is, and the Supply is how many equally sized slices are being taken out of the cake.
How much demand there is for any given commodity is how big the cake is. People want the item? big cake, people literally don't care? tiny cake.
Introducing more of the item into the economy (e.g. RP items) theoretically does not change the size of the cake, it increases the number of equally sized slice that cake is cut into, resulting in overall smaller slices (representing cheaper prices).
Because RP items are inert (they can't be sold for yen / exchanged for items to NPCs) they can be more easily be understood in terms of what's happening to their market.

Yen is not inert, it can be exchanged for things and is involved in literally every item's market. On a server-wide level an increase in yen results in the Size of each Cake increasing because Yen has decreased in value, therefore people are more willing to give more yen to match the "Demand" for an item (which has remained the same).

This is super simplified (not because I am trying to talk down to anyone, it's because I struggle to put into words) but I do not think it is disingenuous and serves to explain why Berries and RP items are different (because Berries increase the amount of Yen in circulation).

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1 hour ago, Dazuzi said:

My point is that both of these extremes, one being buying items from the gift shop, second one being selling berries to an NPC, both create monetary value out of 'thin air' using a 3rd party in the first place and both can be used in player-to-player transactions on the market.

Problem is, the second isn't being done with player-player transactions, but player-npc transactions, generating a new cash influx. Buying RP forces you to directly interact with players in order to sell your items, by any media, being it GTL, trade chat, discord, wtv, but forces you to interact player-player. Someone probably answer above, was too lazy to read all >_<
 

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buying items from gift shop doesnt create any new monetary, it just creates new supply of rp items. if too many rp items will be thrown into the market, their value will decrease. basic supply and demand stuff. Selling berries for yen create new yens in the market, causing inflation. two different things

Edited by Quakkz
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1 hour ago, Matoka said:

"Monetary Value" from things which are not yen itself cannot be generated in the same way as the raw currency, their monetary value adjusts based on how many of something there are perceived to be. Yen is different because it is tied to things directly, for instance 200 yen can never be worth less than 1 Pokeball because you could just turn the 200 yen into 1 Pokeball.

 

1 hour ago, razimove said:

Problem is, the second isn't being done with player-player transactions, but player-npc transactions, generating a new cash influx. Buying RP forces you to directly interact with players in order to sell your items

Yeah, fair point, I got that mixed up. I understand that the distinction is that it's the item(assuming it's consumable) or the pokemon being sunk in this scenario, the money is just being redistributed.

 

What I was mostly alluding to though is that nerfing berries straight to 0 would tank the berry market altogether and possibly cause a deflation.

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1 hour ago, Dazuzi said:

What I was mostly alluding to though is that nerfing berries straight to 0 would tank the berry market altogether and possibly cause a deflation.

I agree, this could very easily tank the berry market cause there's no safety net for what price they can sell for anymore, so it may end up just becoming a ghost-town (Or it could end up where very few people produce berries for a long time, so supply goes down and then after a VERY LONG TIME it goes back to normal? but the market would probably never return to exactly what it is now).

In regards to deflation this wouldn't cause active deflation but rather hinder inflation, very rarely will an MMO ever NOT be going through inflation, it's usually just a case of "How much inflation", and in PokeMMO's case (I don't have hard numbers but...) it tangibly feels like inflation is going on which usually means a fair amount is occurring.

In regards to people suggesting we re-introduce limited time vanities 1) This is basically off topic, 2) Limited Time vanities are objectively harmless, the players are determining these astronomical prices of their own accord (Hyping themselves into thinking they are worth the price). There will ALWAYS be something astronomically priced in MMO economies that people use as symbols of status or to show off to other players, sometimes its hyper dumb things like a cooking recipe that is identical to another cooking recipe (except one is tradeable, see Thistle Tea recipe in WoW.). You literally cannot stop people from wasting money on dumb things.

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Agree. Suggest a way to slow down the inflation:

    Allow Barries grow ONLY when the player online (water comsuming as well)

    The time to grow barries will be much longer, an efficiency way to solve the inflation issue (Specially for those muti-account farmer). The longer time online, more u can get. 

 

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