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Sykopomp

Are quick balls not working as intended?

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I've been trying to catch low level stuff with quick balls but it seems to never work on the first try. I remember quick balls catching lvl 5 magikarps virtually 100% of the time but that doesnt seem to be the case now. Could someone tell me if thats intended or if Quick Balls' gimmick of throwing them first thing in the battle is not implemented yet.

 

I've noticed this thing playing on android btw.

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All type of pokeballs were nerfed to better suit a MMO environment. There is a chance of you failing even if a karp is asleep with 1 HP. Except Master Ball, nothing is 100%.

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2 hours ago, Akshit said:

All type of pokeballs were nerfed to better suit a MMO environment. There is a chance of you failing even if a karp is asleep with 1 HP. Except Master Ball, nothing is 100%.

I don't think that's accurate

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6 hours ago, suigin said:

I don't think that's accurate

You're right it's not you can achieve 100% catch rate on pokemon with easy catch rates (e.g. Magikarp, Caterpie, etc), but some pokeballs were nerfed (Including but not limited to Dusk Balls and Repeatballs iirc) because they were a bit too strong.

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7 minutes ago, Matoka said:

You're right it's not you can achieve 100% catch rate on pokemon with easy catch rates (e.g. Magikarp, Caterpie, etc), but some pokeballs were nerfed (Including but not limited to Dusk Balls and Repeatballs iirc) because they were a bit too strong.

The answer I seen not that long ago was because they were 'broken'. So which is it, were they too strong or broken?

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8 minutes ago, Dazuzi said:

The answer I seen not that long ago was because they were 'broken'. So which is it, were they too strong or broken?

I know that there are intentional changes to certain Pokeballs (i.e. they were too strong so got nerfed), however off the top of my head I don't know specifics of how much each were changed.

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Going through the old updates this is all I could find written about currently, so me thinking Dusk Ball was nerfed may have been a fever dream of mine.
 

Balancing

 

General

  • Certain balls' rates have been rebalanced:
    • Dive Balls reduced to 3x maximum catch rate. Price updated to 1500
    • Repeat Balls reduced to 2.5x maximum catch rate. Price updated to 1500
    • Timer Balls reduced to 3x maximum catch rate. Price updated to 1400
    • Net Balls reduced to 3x maximum catch rate. Price updated to 1400

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1 minute ago, Matoka said:

I know that there are intentional changes to certain Pokeballs, however off the top of my head I don't know specifics of how much each were changed.

I know that there were intentional changes too, I am asking if the reason behind these changes was the fact that they were too strong like you just said or if they were 'broken' like darkshade said a few months ago, because that was the explanation we got when all those 'pls revert catchrates' threads started popping up.

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1 minute ago, Dazuzi said:

I know that there were intentional changes too, I am asking if the reason behind these changes was the fact that they were too strong like you just said or if they were 'broken' like darkshade said a few months ago, because that was the explanation we got when all those 'pls revert catchrates' threads started popping up.

Too strong, as they are not in line with hand-held catch rate multipliers anymore (they would have been put to what the handheld values were if they were broken as in bugged, but they were moved away which suggests they were broken as in OP)

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7 minutes ago, Matoka said:

Too strong, as they are not in line with hand-held catch rate multipliers anymore

Meaning in line with the most recent 3DS hand-held game(s)?

12 minutes ago, Matoka said:

Going through the old updates this is all I could find written about currently, so me thinking Dusk Ball was nerfed may have been a fever dream of mine.

Yeah those were nerfed too from 3.5 to 3.

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1 minute ago, Dazuzi said:

Meaning in line with the most recent 3DS hand-held game(s)?

I'm pretty sure the ones that got changes are just flat-out custom values for PokeMMO is what I mean.

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28 minutes ago, Dazuzi said:

I know that there were intentional changes too, I am asking if the reason behind these changes was the fact that they were too strong like you just said or if they were 'broken' like darkshade said a few months ago, because that was the explanation we got when all those 'pls revert catchrates' threads started popping up.

No, you misunderstood;

Catch rates were 'broken' (more advantageous than vanilla), some balls were 'too strong'.

The difference that's being noticed is likely because of a combination of the two.

 

The ball changes were not particularly new, whereas the fix to catch rates was.

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7 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

No, you misunderstand.

Catch rates were 'broken' (more advantageous than vanilla), some balls were 'too strong'.

The difference that's being noticed is because of a combination of the two.

 

The ball changes were not particularly new, whereas the fix to catch rates was.

Broken since 2012? I've heard better excuses, either that or you guys are trying to earn the title of worst devs in the decade.

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57 minutes ago, razimove said:

Broken since 2012? I've heard better excuses, either that or you guys are trying to earn the title of worst devs in the decade.

They prolly don't have much of a shot at it with Bethesda's recent fiascos.

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1 hour ago, razimove said:

Broken since 2012? I've heard better excuses, either that or you guys are trying to earn the title of worst devs in the decade.

Catch rates now are actually what they were in 2012, they were broken around the time of hoenns release.

If not working, closer to what it is now, ditto and things in general used to be a lot harder to catch than they were during the extremely broken easy catch rate time.

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15 minutes ago, Munya said:

Catch rates now are actually what they were in 2012, they were broken around the time of hoenns release.

May I ask for the formula that you are using? Cause my formula shows that now they are indeed broken and previously they weren't. If you want, I can even discuss it more privately with you, but the formula is open to the public.

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Posted (edited)

Just revert the catch rates back to their original rates.

The whole “to better suit an MMO environment” is just a heaping load of crap.

Edited by BoltBlades12

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2 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Just revert the catch rates back to their original rates.

The whole “to better suit an MMO environment” is just a heaping load of crap.

I find myself agreeing with this guy for once. Pls fix the catch rate

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22 hours ago, razimove said:

May I ask for the formula that you are using? Cause my formula shows that now they are indeed broken and previously they weren't. If you want, I can even discuss it more privately with you, but the formula is open to the public.

Please do mention examples which you believe to be incorrect in terms of catch rate calculations, just remember to factor in any catch rate multiplier changes to Pokeballs and the fact that we use the gen III / gen IV catch rate calculations (last I checked, could be misremembering).

If you find discrepancies while taking these both into account I'd be genuinely interested to hear them.

 

18 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Just revert the catch rates back to their original rates.

The whole “to better suit an MMO environment” is just a heaping load of crap.

 

15 hours ago, Dibz said:

I find myself agreeing with this guy for once. Pls fix the catch rate

Your entire MMO's economy is based around pokemon, if the source of obtaining pokemon is too easy then they become increasingly more cheap, if they become cheaper on an individual level then them combined (into comps) becomes cheaper overall in terms of how players value them. This makes selling pokemon a nightmare which means people to make money will turn to things like selling vanities or shiny pokemon as nothing else will hold any semblance of value.

This is just me speculating (no one can truly 100% predict these things), but I do really believe this is a case of unforeseen consequences for something that seems nice in the short-term.
And to anyone who complains that a Pokemon-themed MMO has MMO style changes I don't know what to tell you, we don't exactly hide the fact this is an MMO. It's in the name.

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17 minutes ago, Matoka said:

Please do mention examples which you believe to be incorrect in terms of catch rate calculations, just remember to factor in any catch rate multiplier changes to Pokeballs and the fact that we use the gen III / gen IV catch rate calculations (last I checked, could be misremembering).

If you find discrepancies while taking these both into account I'd be genuinely interested to hear them.

For example according to gen III/IV catch rate calculations catching a 1HP/asleep ditto with a dusk ball should be pretty much 100%, which is not the case.

 

https://gyazo.com/1abd128dd18453aa3c2fb6303de755d3

17 minutes ago, Matoka said:

And to anyone who complains that a Pokemon-themed MMO has MMO style changes I don't know what to tell you, we don't exactly hide the fact this is an MMO. It's in the name.

I wouldn't have a problem with this change if it was simply explained to be altered from the original games in order to make it harder since it's an MMO. The whole argument about it being 'broken' for several years is my personal issue and I suppose that's why others are debating this as well.

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7 minutes ago, Dazuzi said:

For example according to gen III/IV catch rate calculations catching a 1HP/asleep ditto with a dusk ball should be pretty much 100%, which is not the case.

 

https://gyazo.com/1abd128dd18453aa3c2fb6303de755d3

As I said before I am very confident Dusk Ball has been intentionally nerfed, along with the other Pokeballs. If It hasn't and this is a mistake I will return and address this, but I am quite confident on my memory regarding this.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Matoka said:

gen III / gen IV catch rate calculations

what's the reason behind this, considering the motto of the game is to go gen7 if they could go gen7, or at least I'm pretty sure Kyu said that when unova got released.

And do not come up with the market is broken etc due to how easy it is to catch mons, the catch mon holds little value, the ones with IV holds value, that didn't change, you just made it more tedious. This isn't how you approach an economy problem or something similiar. Also they are on a decline ever since, supply and demand, and this ''nerf'' didnt change a thing FYI.

 

1 hour ago, Matoka said:

just remember to factor in any catch rate multiplier changes to Pokeballs

I do know some were nerfed, ultra balls are not one of them nor are repeat balls, at least from my research I haven't found a word about this 2 in particular.
 

Also, I'll ask once again, to your superiors, is the formula you guys are using public or is it going to be one of the shiny rate is 1/8k fiasco like in the past?

Also, if you don't want to answer this, answer me this then, was it broken since 2012, meaning that you should have informed us and working on a fix back then, or was it a nerf because you guys decided so, like the autistic nerf to Lucky Eggs?

Edited by razimove

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31 minutes ago, razimove said:

meaning that you should have informed us and working on a fix back then

It was broken, however, we weren't aware that it was at the time, and since we weren't, we couldn't exactly inform anybody that there was a fix in the works - bugs don't just present themselves they have to be found out first.

As for the formula, from what I can tell and know of, matoka is right that it uses a gen 3/4 catch formula, but as he has also said the ball rates are modified here so using the vanilla ball rates in the formula may not net you accurate results - there are plans for in the future including ball rates in the tooltips though.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Matoka said:

Your entire MMO's economy is based around pokemon, if the source of obtaining pokemon is too easy then they become increasingly more cheap, if they become cheaper on an individual level then them combined (into comps) becomes cheaper overall in terms of how players value them. This makes selling pokemon a nightmare which means people to make money will turn to things like selling vanities or shiny pokemon as nothing else will hold any semblance of value.

First off, that’s the lamest excuse I’ve heard in my whole life. “Lower the value”?

Lower the value my a$$.

 

The value won’t change a bit if the rate is reverted back to how it SHOULD be. Especially since the rate for literally EVERYTHING else has been nerfed(Shiny rate, Lucky Egg exp yield, etc.).

 

Even then, people will turn to shinies and vanities to sell on the gtl anyways. Especially with legendaries well on their way and most likely the ability to shiny hunt legendaries. The only difference is that with a nerfed catch rate, people will be more deterred from breeder catching since even Pokémon with a “100%” catch rate will still break out.

Ex: I had a duskull break out of 3 repeat balls, DESPITE the fact that according to catch rate calculations, it’s supposed to be a guaranteed catch.

 

Also, keep in mind that not EVERY catch is a guaranteed 1x31

 

So again, your whole “value” logic is nothing but excuses. Shiny rate being 1/30k as opposed to the vanilla 1/8k is one thing, but nerfing balls so literally everything is un-catchable, that’s where the line gets drawn.

 

 

Edited by BoltBlades12

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