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Update the guidelines regarding drug references.

Question

Fourth case I see in the past month or so.

https://pokemmo.eu/code_of_conduct

 

Ctrl+f "drug" 1 match:

Quote

You may not use any Username or Team Name which:

  1. References any form of criminal activity or drugs;

That's the only time referencing drugs seems to be forbidden according to the guidelines. If you wish to prohibit the very mention of them then you should probably put that here before dealing punishments.

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On 9/29/2019 at 9:35 AM, Minks said:

i see my post on this subject was deleted (thanks for proving my point), so im just gonna write it again.

 

A friend of mine was banned for 2 days for breaking this non-existent rule. I dont see why it's so hard to either leave those players alone or add a line to the CoC. Right now, you people are banning players for no reason and since apparently you also delete any type of criticism towards the moderation of this game, i'm now forced to believe this creates a loophole for staff to ban people they dont like. 


As posted in the OP, the only mention of drugs in the CoC is in regards to usernames or teamnames, it doesn't say anything about the chat. Fix it or stop punishing people for rules you make up on the spot. 

Bearminator has said on a different post about this that there's also a rule that users of PokeMMO will obey rules set by the staff. He said that the staff tell you on global to not mention drugs, therefore people shouldn't talk about drugs.

Again, that's a paraphrase of what Bear said. Personally, I think most things should be allowed - obviously nothing 18+ but like jokes about drugs or alcohol should be fine. I've seen people make pedo jokes and apparently that's ok.

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1 hour ago, Stickbow0 said:

Bearminator has said on a different post about this that there's also a rule that users of PokeMMO will obey rules set by the staff. He said that the staff tell you on global to not mention drugs, therefore people shouldn't talk about drugs.

Again, that's a paraphrase of what Bear said. Personally, I think most things should be allowed - obviously nothing 18+ but like jokes about drugs or alcohol should be fine. I've seen people make pedo jokes and apparently that's ok.

Staff more than anyone else musr follow TC and CoC, so they could say anything, if its not in TC or CoC is irrelevant.

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2 hours ago, Stickbow0 said:

Bearminator has said on a different post about this that there's also a rule that users of PokeMMO will obey rules set by the staff. He said that the staff tell you on global to not mention drugs, therefore people shouldn't talk about drugs.

Again, that's a paraphrase of what Bear said. Personally, I think most things should be allowed - obviously nothing 18+ but like jokes about drugs or alcohol should be fine. I've seen people make pedo jokes and apparently that's ok.

Yes that rule is also a problem, if you connect it to the issue raised in this topic, 1 staff member will punish you for something another won't. That is exactly why it should be either allowed or put in the CoC. 

 

Jokes or mentions of alcohol are totally fine btw, which is hypocritical and illogical. As you pointed out in your last sentence, the things that are said in global sometimes without consequence are ridiculous compared to making a weed-joke. Yet for some reason certain staff just can't handle it.

 

edit; again, a bunch of posts criticizing staff have been deleted. why? it's on topic. 

Edited by Minks
smh

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4 hours ago, Minks said:

Yes that rule is also a problem, if you connect it to the issue raised in this topic, 1 staff member will punish you for something another won't. That is exactly why it should be either allowed or put in the CoC. 

 

Jokes or mentions of alcohol are totally fine btw, which is hypocritical and illogical. As you pointed out in your last sentence, the things that are said in global sometimes without consequence are ridiculous compared to making a weed-joke. Yet for some reason certain staff just can't handle it.

 

edit; again, a bunch of posts criticizing staff have been deleted. why? it's on topic. 

Yeah I do agree it should be either completely banned with all mods enforcing it, or else it should be allowed. 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Minks said:

Yes that rule is also a problem, if you connect it to the issue raised in this topic, 1 staff member will punish you for something another won't. That is exactly why it should be either allowed or put in the CoC. 

 

Jokes or mentions of alcohol are totally fine btw, which is hypocritical and illogical. As you pointed out in your last sentence, the things that are said in global sometimes without consequence are ridiculous compared to making a weed-joke. Yet for some reason certain staff just can't handle it.

 

edit; again, a bunch of posts criticizing staff have been deleted. why? it's on topic. 

regarding this last point, on the edit, care to explain how did those posts go against the rules @SecretDjinn   @Bearminator

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17 minutes ago, razimove said:

regarding this last point, on the edit, care to explain how did those posts go against the rules @SecretDjinn   @Bearminator

The posts that were hidden involved the hiding of posts on the forums and nothing to do with the topic, it has always been forum policy to both hide off topic posts in this section & that if you have an issue with a post being hidden, you can take it up with a moderator and they would be able to tell you more as to why it was hidden, so in the future please do so instead of derailing topics with little to no contributing content to the topic itself, thank you.

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We want to ensure that the game is an inviting and appropriate environment for everyone. This means certain topics will inevitably fall under "inappropriate" for public chats and therefore, we will take action to prevent that from happening. Someone, probably Stickbow said above that "I've seen people make pedo jokes and apparently that's ok" - it's not. While pedo jokes aren't directly mentioned in CoC, it's still not allowed topic.  We warn players many times that mentioning drugs is not allowed- and as instruction from staff members, it needs to be followed. If a player chooses to refuse it, it's their's choice and it'll hold consequences.

 

Whenever the edit of the CoC will be done or not, I can't confirm at the moment, but it's not out of question. However, that doesn't mean we will allow the topic to be discussed. As to stop misinformation given in one of the replies above, all staff members are instructed to moderate/report drug-related topics, as well as other inappropriate ones - it's not targeted at certain, chosen players only.

If you want to continue talking about this topic, stick to the team chat, link chat or whispers, as those are unmoderated. Public chats will not be allowed to hold such a discussion. 

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13 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

 However, that doesn't mean we will allow the topic to be discussed.

See, but this is a healthy discussion, brings legit little to no harm to the table, and allows us to establish a connection and a way to discuss such subject with you, one of the superior staff.
 While the moderation is fine, too much is pooped, and the way you punish should be measured with chat logs, not screenshots, as people only screenshot what they want at their own free will. Well that aside, then clarify us something, what is a drug for you? Can we discuss coffee brands? What difference is there between that and a more recreative drug, by using the drug term?

14 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

as those are unmoderated

> Next patch, ability for low useless mods to moderate team chats at will.

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3 minutes ago, razimove said:

See, but this is a healthy discussion, brings legit little to no harm to the table, and allows us to establish a connection and a way to discuss such subject with you, one of the superior staff.


I don't think you understood me. We will not allow the topic of drugs to be discussed in-game at all unless on the chat types I've mentioned.

 

I will not go into details of our moderation or the way it's done. All I can say is that we check every case and if someone feels misunderstood, he can always contact us- SGMs via a forum. However, not allowing certain topic that our devs decided is not suitable for public chat is not "too much moderation"- it's a decision by PokeMMO staff and is not going to be changed as far as I can see.

 

3 minutes ago, razimove said:

Can we discuss coffee brands?

This argument was mentioned countless times on global- coffee is not considered drug in most of the places of the world, and -unlike some of the substances players seem to mention- can be bought all around the world by people of all age. 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

 Someone, probably Stickbow said above that "I've seen people make pedo jokes and apparently that's ok" - it's not. While pedo jokes aren't directly mentioned in CoC, it's still not allowed topic. 

I didn't mean it's okay let's all do it. I meant I've seen people make the jokes and no punishment - they continue talking on global. Yet every time I've seen drugs be mentioned, the speaker gets a mute. 

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Just now, Stickbow0 said:

I didn't mean it's okay let's all do it. I meant I've seen people make the jokes and no punishment - they continue talking on global. Yet every time I've seen drugs be mentioned, the speaker gets a mute. 

See, that's why we have player reports section- while you might not seem them meeting punishment/warning, it doesn't mean none are applied.

A lot of those stuff happens outside point of view. I can only assure you that the topic you mentioned is taken by us VERY seriously, especially considering all kids playing PokeMMO, and human decency

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14 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

This argument was mentioned countless times on global- coffee is not considered drug in most of the places of the world, and -unlike some of the substances players seem to mention- can be bought all around the world by people of all age. 

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/rhythms-recovery/201708/coffee-is-drug-not-beverage-drink-just-not-too-much

 

It's a drug. Alcohol is a drug. Tabbacco is a drug. The second and third being more harmful than lets say devil's lettuce.
fun fact, doens't matter your country, the definition of drug doens't change. 

 

Spoiler
drug
/drʌɡ/
noun
 
  1. a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_alcohol_prohibition

This provides you a somewhat still accurate and updated list of the alcohol prohibition. Which would then raise the question, aren't there quite a handful of indian players? Why am I able to discuss it, or even tabbaco, but the other one is wrong.
 

Edited by razimove

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1 minute ago, razimove said:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/intl/blog/rhythms-recovery/201708/coffee-is-drug-not-beverage-drink-just-not-too-much

 

It's a drug. Alcohol is a drug. Tabbacco is a drug. The second and third being more harmful than lets say devil's lettuce.
fun fact, doens't matter your country, the definition of drug doens't change. 

 

  Hide contents
drug
/drʌɡ/
noun
 
  1. a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_alcohol_prohibition

This provides you a somewhat still accurate and updated list of the alcohol prohibition. Which would then raise the question, aren't there quite a handful of indian players? Why am I able to discuss it, or even tabbaco, but the other one is wrong.
 

I'm not sure what you are trying to achieve Razimove. We all by now know that alcohol, coffee (or anything with caffeine) or tobacco can be addictive and is causing serious health issues for people all around the world, however, you don't seem them banned worldwide when other substances are. Comparing those 3's impact on chat with other substance's potential has a big flaw- you can see advertisements for them on TV, the Internet, cinemas. Some drugs are not advertised for a reason. If there will be change to CoC, I ASSUME you will most likely read "don't mention drugs" line, without the full list of things it contains. 

 

Again, we are not going to suddenly allow this topic to be discussed in-game, and staff members will continue to warn players to not bring it out. If you wish to discuss topic with friends, I'm sure you know how to write a private message. I don't see any benefit of allowing them to appear on PokeMMO's public chats. 

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2 hours ago, Bearminator said:

you can see advertisements for them on TV, the Internet, cinemas. Some drugs are not advertised for a reason.

By that logic, all drugs that are advertised on let's say the TV are fine? I say TV because public channels have rules and they do have ads mentioning drugs that can be considered harmful. Some even promote them. 

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Posted (edited)

What is or isn't allowed in chat typically falls to the discretion of GMs. This includes both the directives issued by the Code of Conduct, as well as personal discretion entrusted in each GM / Global Moderator.

 

Regardless of discretion though, drug discussion in public chats has been something which has been consistently disallowed by GMs for several years. Since there's confusion about it due to not being "officially against the rules", we'll update the Code of Conduct later this week to reflect it. Note that we don't typically care about topics like this in private discussions, i.e. Team / Link / Whisper chats.

Edited by Kyu

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