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Update the guidelines regarding drug references.

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Fourth case I see in the past month or so.

https://pokemmo.eu/code_of_conduct

 

Ctrl+f "drug" 1 match:

Quote

You may not use any Username or Team Name which:

  1. References any form of criminal activity or drugs;

That's the only time referencing drugs seems to be forbidden according to the guidelines. If you wish to prohibit the very mention of them then you should probably put that here before dealing punishments.

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Posted (edited)

I love that they deleted my answer in this regard, but I'll write it again, since it's not a witchhunt, it's still within the rules, you staff, should take your time to carefully read the written rules.

There's some bad apples on the tree, in this case, staff members, cut them out, and everything will be good again. The rules don't need to be changed, the staff team however, should get a big ovehaul.

Now please, if you remove this one again, which is similiar to the previous one, at least make the effort of pm'ing me the reason, thank you.

__

On further notice, what would fall into drug category? 
 

Quote
drug
/drʌɡ/
noun
 
  1. 1.
    a medicine or other substance which has a physiological effect when ingested or otherwise introduced into the body.

Even coffee falls under this category, do we get a mute for discussing coffee brands?

Edited by razimove
typo

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Posted (edited)

Yea, multiple members of my team have received mutes for this as well, despite nothing about this being mentioned in the rules. I then had a discussion about it with a certain staff member (i think most of u can guess which one), who tried to argue the subject based on legality, which is stupid and irrelevant. The term "drug" is way too broad to moderate and imo staff should leave it alone. You legit cant make a logical case for "im gonna smoke some weed" being punishable and "im gonna drink a beer" being fine, yet this is exactly how its being handled rn. 

 

edit: I've now seen the reaction in the other thread that was linked, i would like to add that the 2 quotes from the CoC Bear posted have NOTHING to do with chatting about drugs. We aren't stupid, we can read and understand whats in there and what isn't.

 

ps: to that staff member, im doing you a favor by not naming names, so dont delete this, thank you. 

Edited by Minks

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Posted (edited)

I remember that the word "drug" can also be used to say "addicted" and we know well that we can be addicted also to very common things like food or (as my colleague said a few posts above) coffee.

 

All this talk is to explain how the term "drug" is too broad and subjective (in some countries some drugs are legal, so they are not actually drugs).

 

I believe it is appropriate to review and, in the best case, eliminate that too ambiguous "drug" clause.

 

 

I understand that when rules are created, everything and everyone cannot be taken into account so the staff is not at fault.

 

I believe, in addition, that the democracy where we all live is based on the concept of doing things according to an increasingly just criterion for all (and not just for a few), not to do so would be tantamount to tyranny.

 

 

peace.

Edited by druido890

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On 6/4/2019 at 6:57 PM, razimove said:

There's some bad apples on the tree, in this case, staff members, cut them out, and everything will be good again. The rules don't need to be changed, the staff team however, should get a big ovehaul.

Lol imagine if they actually gave enough of a shit about opinions outside of their own to actually do something like that

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I mean they are clearly talking about stuff like the devil's cabbage, you can nitpick about salt being a drug all you want but when you read that rule, you immediately knew what they were referring to.

My problem isn't with them punishing the sole mention of this stuff, but the fact that it isn't in the rules that it's punishable.

So people who read the rules, join the game and suddenly namedrop drugs for whatever reason get punished without knowing why.

So yeah either make it an official rule and then start punishing people for mentioning them or just don't punish them at all.

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On 6/5/2019 at 6:35 AM, DeadGorilla said:

i live in a state that has legal medicinal and recreational marijuana, there is no criminal activity there, am i allowed to talk about it?

In many other countries the usage of weed is being legalized, be that medicinal or social. This doesn't mean that the whole world has deemed it legal or it isn't harmful in other areas. Not the mention the age restriction that has been placed on it. Which annuls the legalization giving the fact that the game is PG-13. Hence, allowing the mention can fall under advertising or promoting. 

And yes, i dont see a rule in the CoC that the mention itself is punishable under chat rules. Ofcourse, in common sense it shouldn't be something you should be able to openly discuss among other players within public chats. Regardless, no rule means it cant be enforced. Probably something that should be added soon.

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Posted (edited)
37 minutes ago, Malorne said:

In many other countries the usage of weed is being legalized, be that medicinal or social. This doesn't mean that the whole world has deemed it legal or it isn't harmful in other areas. Not the mention the age restriction that has been placed on it. Which annuls the legalization giving the fact that the game is PG-13. Hence, allowing the mention can fall under advertising or promoting. 

And yes, i dont see a rule in the CoC that the mention itself is punishable under chat rules. Ofcourse, in common sense it shouldn't be something you should be able to openly discuss among other players within public chats. Regardless, no rule means it cant be enforced. Probably something that should be added soon.

I think that comment was just making light of the fact that weed and criminal activity aren't necessarily related, unlike the wording in the rule somewhat implied. I don't think it was intended that deep. But to address some points there...

 

I really hope that something being illegal in some countries doesn't make something taboo by default. For example, uguusexuality is still illegal in many countries in the world but I don't want anyone to get punished for the sheer mention that they are in a relationship with someone in the same gender. At some point the administrations just has to take some kind of subjective stance that what is okay and what is not. I do understand that anything drug-related, even in the relatively mild case of weed is a very grey area but the admins should just take a definitive stance on it and that's that. It seems like not even the mods know what is the actual definition of "going too far" about this. 

 

Edit: Now yes, there are some things that are more accepted worldwide than others, and countries completely legalizing weed may still be the minority but it's still largely related to what is the general culture of the playerbase when making these decisions. But nothing should be assumed, everything should be written out because how can people know otherwise, so I'm glad this discussion was brought up.

 

 

Edited by OrangeManiac

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1 hour ago, OrangeManiac said:

I think that comment was just making light of the fact that weed and criminal activity aren't necessarily related

On the contrary, carrying & consuming weed is considered illegal in many other countries to this day and can be punishable with jailtime.

 

1 hour ago, OrangeManiac said:

uguusexuality is still illegal in many countries in the world but I don't want anyone to get punished

Actually, it is illegal in only a handful of countries. Many other countries haven't really addressed the issue of accepting and providing relationship status (marriage etc.) but it is still allowed.
Secondly, those two really don't belong in a comparrison.

The safest choice is to disallow the general discussion about it in public chats, because you can't tell who is reading that might be bad example to, if you're really "dying" to talk about drugs with other people i'd suggest a team chat or a discord group chat rather than suggesting that the moderation of the entire game should amuse such discussions where not everyone would like to be a part of.

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Malorne said:

This doesn't mean that the whole world has deemed it legal or it isn't harmful in other areas. Not the mention the age restriction that has been placed on it. Which annuls the legalization giving the fact that the game is PG-13. Hence, allowing the mention can fall under advertising or promoting. 
 

It doesn't matter. Alcohol is illegal in about 20ish countries worldwide, that doesnt mean we should all never mention alcohol and/or be punished for it :'). You simply cant debate the problem here based on legality, its stupid. The age thing is also nonsense, considering you have literal casinos ingame. Where i live, we cant even enter casinos under the age of 21. So no, that is also not a valid argument. 

 

And mentioning something being the same as advertising or promoting is one of the dumbest things i've ever heard. 

 

6 hours ago, Malorne said:

Actually, it is illegal in only a handful of countries. Many other countries haven't really addressed the issue of accepting and providing relationship status (marriage etc.) but it is still allowed.
 

Yea, this is bullshit. You even live in a country where they dont recognize same-sex marriage, and you wanna claim that's only a thing in "a handful of countries"? Lmao. Yea sure man. If you're gonna try and adress this issue from a legality standpoint, it's definitely a fair comparison.

Edited by Minks

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55 minutes ago, Minks said:

Yea, this is bullshit. You even live in a country where they dont recognize same-sex marriage, and you wanna claim that's only a thing in "a handful of countries"? Lmao. Yea sure man. If you're gonna try and adress this issue from a legality standpoint, it's definitely a fair comparison.

Indeed, instead of basing my every damn argument on the country i live like u muricans do, i take a broad view on every country to see a %.

 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Malorne said:

Indeed, instead of basing my every damn argument on the country i live like u muricans do, i take a broad view on every country to see a %.

 

I'm not american, but i do think its concerning that you claim nonsense like "oh, well gay marriage isnt illegal in more than a handful of countries", while living in one where it is. Makes me think you are not a very nice person, but more on-topic, it makes me think you're not the best person to discuss legality in x countries crossing over to an online game, since you seem to lack basic knowledge on the subject. The fact that you only responded to that, while i took the time to counter ur points 1 by 1, also speaks volumes. 

 

Also, lol @ portraying yourself like some objective, levelheaded individual, after throwing every single american under the bus, in a failed attempt at proving a point. :')

Edited by Minks

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Minks said:

I'm not american, but i do think its concerning that you claim nonsense like "oh, well gay marriage isnt illegal in more than a handful of countries", while living in one where it is. Makes me think you are not a very nice person, but more on-topic, it makes me think you're not the best person to discuss legality in x countries crossing over to an online game, since you seem to lack basic knowledge on the subject. The fact that you only responded to that, while i took the time to counter ur points 1 by 1, also speaks volumes. 

 

Also, lol @ portraying yourself like some objective, levelheaded individual, after throwing every single american under the bus, in a failed attempt at proving a point. :')

Right, i'm not really one to get into petty arguments with barely developed people but this is getting annoying so allow me to shut you up.

When i say "illegal" i'm talking enforcement level illegal by law (which in some countries it is death penalty) and these countries are only a handful. Other countries (like the one i live in) doesn't have laws against gay relationships, as in its not a crime to be gay like the other countries i stated above. Those countries unfortunately in the majority atm, which they don't grant gay relationship to be a legit maritial status hence not providing the social freedom for two man to marry eachother.

EDIT: Not need to further derail it

Edited by Malorne

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5 hours ago, Malorne said:

Right, i'm not really one to get into petty arguments with barely developed people but this is getting annoying so allow me to shut you up.

When i say "illegal" i'm talking enforcement level illegal by law (which in some countries it is death penalty) and these countries are only a handful. Other countries (like the one i live in) doesn't have laws against gay relationships, as in its not a crime to be gay like the other countries i stated above. Those countries unfortunately in the majority atm, which they don't grant gay relationship to be a legit maritial status hence not providing the social freedom for two man to marry eachother.

EDIT: Not need to further derail it

Yikes. First of all, your "handful of countries" shtick is just inaccurate okay, idk what else to say about that. It's not true and it's kinda disgusting that you keep repeating it. Second, your country doesn't have laws against it, because it simply doesn't recognize it. That doesn't make it better lol. Adding "unfortunate" in there is a nice touch, but i'm pretty sure you're ok with it.

 

Anyway, you still can't come up with a decent argument on the actual topic here, which only proves my point. Legality is irrelevant in setting up the rules here, since "drugs" come in legal/illegal forms everywhere. That's the point you seem to be missing (or you're just refusing to adress it, like the age thing). Lastly, I don't personally think the CoC needs an update, I think staff just needs to follow the rules that are in place. Which means not punishing people for talking about drugs. 

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14 hours ago, Malorne said:

Right, i'm not really one to get into petty arguments with barely developed people but this is getting annoying so allow me to shut you up.

Are people defending staff are forced to have the arrogant superiority complex now?

 

since your argument suggests that you aren't used to argumenting i'll give you a basic tip. if you want to make someone shut up try providing facts and accurate numbers of what you are talking about has well has understanding their position and why they have it. Just a side note that being arrogant will only lower your credibility.

 

on the subject now i feel like staff either needs to learn their own rules or change them to represent what they are doing.

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45 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

Are people defending staff are forced to have the arrogant superiority complex now?

I'm not really defending staff though. Not always anyway... Its just one of those things that u just disallow one thing to save yourself a headache later on.

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On 6/17/2019 at 1:58 PM, Malorne said:

I'm not really defending staff though. Not always anyway... Its just one of those things that u just disallow one thing to save yourself a headache later on.

I like how you don't say anything about the superiority complex. It's a nice subtle way of confirming my assumption (not blaming you for it)

 

on topic now i forgot to mention i had talk with bear about staff actions being inconsistent and offering help with potentially making more elaborate guidelines for staff moderation. The answer i got to my proposal could be summed up to fuck off we don't need it followed after by him suggesting that i bring this to admin instead wich ended in the same way. So their will to change anything isn't really there sadly.

 

quick disclaimer that bear isn't rude enough to just tell me to fuck off right away this was just a shorten version of what the reply meant or at least how it felt.

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17 hours ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

by him suggesting that i bring this to admin instead wich ended in the same way. So their will to change anything isn't really there sadly.

Did u bring it to an admin tho? (namely squirtle coz the others dont give a fuck about moderation)

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13 minutes ago, Malorne said:

Did u bring it to an admin tho? (namely squirtle coz the others dont give a fuck about moderation)

I did try to bring it to all of them but only sqirtle "read" my message and didn't bother replying

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1 hour ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

I did try to bring it to all of them but only sqirtle "read" my message and didn't bother replying

Might take some time to come up with a collective answer, as it is not for one person to decide a CoC related answer.

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4 hours ago, Malorne said:

Might take some time to come up with a collective answer, as it is not for one person to decide a CoC related answer.

It's dating back to January so my hopes aren't very high that i or anyone will get an answer

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On 6/20/2019 at 10:45 AM, ThePrettyPetard said:

It's dating back to January so my hopes aren't very high that i or anyone will get an answer

Amnesia brace took years for just one reply lol

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11 hours ago, Dibz said:

Amnesia brace took years for just one reply lol

Fair point but if it takes them has long to answer this i will have to seriously question whether they actually care about the community. Sure they may be very busy but that's why there is staff moderation instead of it being done by the devs so why aren't they able to anwser anyone about rules give some power to them to be able to take a definitive stance on everything and maybe change the rules if they have to.

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i see my post on this subject was deleted (thanks for proving my point), so im just gonna write it again.

 

A friend of mine was banned for 2 days for breaking this non-existent rule. I dont see why it's so hard to either leave those players alone or add a line to the CoC. Right now, you people are banning players for no reason and since apparently you also delete any type of criticism towards the moderation of this game, i'm now forced to believe this creates a loophole for staff to ban people they dont like. 


As posted in the OP, the only mention of drugs in the CoC is in regards to usernames or teamnames, it doesn't say anything about the chat. Fix it or stop punishing people for rules you make up on the spot. 

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