Allow all pokémon

[Cacha]

Hi, i was thinking in allow all poķémon, articuno, zapdos, landorus, etc.

Maybe to use in uber, history or play whit friends. 

Why can't use it?  

I can't understand. 

There are another pokes whit 600 on stat base and are over used.

[Cacha]

Nah, man you have never played an original game from what I see, I had the gameboy advance and I always played against other people by link and the usual legendary were never a problem, of the birds there are 3 that lose half of the ps only with the Rock trap, the regis all share a terrible weakness to the earthquake, any dragon destroys it from an ice beam, you're talking without knowing.

[suigin]

Just now, Cacha said:

Nah, man you have never played an original game from what I see, I had the gameboy advance and I always played against other people by link and the usual legendary were never a problem, of the birds there are 3 that lose half of the ps only with the Rock trap, the regis all share a terrible weakness to the earthquake, any dragon destroys it from an ice beam, you're talking without knowing.

ah yes the stealth rock that existed in the gba games

[razimove]

23 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

A check is not a counter though, but you do have a point. I'd wager there are still a fair number of talks happening with respect to tiering the legends remaining properly.

Which should be public, given on how unnacurate TC is/was in the past. 

 

21 minutes ago, Cacha said:

The truth is that if they do not implement the legendary just for losing exclusivity, it seems to me something without any sense, if they really think that they would make the game easier it also seems very silly to me, both gyms and npc can be done with any OU or pokémon lvl 100, with respect to the comp, all the legendary, birds, regys, lugia, ho oh, ect have very common counter of all the tier, the truth is that there is none invincible.

Yeah man you're right, damn you're so bright, can I get an autograph?

[Cacha]

 

 

Yes, I wanted to put ds but I was thinking about the advance xD. The point is the same. And with silly and ironic answers I remind you that they don't solve or contribute anything. Let's see, it is not difficult, if you do not know, inform us to give your opinion, and that's it.

[XelaKebert]

4 minutes ago, Cacha said:

Nah, man you have never played an original game from what I see, I had the gameboy advance and I always played against other people by link and the usual legendary were never a problem, of the birds there are 3 that lose half of the ps only with the Rock trap, the regis all share a terrible weakness to the earthquake, any dragon destroys it from an ice beam, you're talking without knowing.

Let me count the ways here. Let's see, I own a GBC with Red, Yellow, and Silver. I own GBASP with FR and Sapphire. I own a 2DS with Pearl, Black, HeartGold, Y, and Moon. Yep, clearly never played an original game in my life yet I know that not every legend is Uber. Somehow that knowledge seems to escape you. Enough with arguments from credentials here though. Hell, this isn't even about the Regis or the Legendary Bird Trio. Odds are great those will be perma-keep and released with dungeons. This is about legends like Arceus who are too OP and have been banned from Official Nintendo gameplay, which is contrary to your point that they weren't ever a problem.

 

2 minutes ago, Cacha said:

 

 

Yes, I wanted to put ds but I was thinking about the advance xD. The point is the same. And with silly and ironic answers I remind you that they don't solve or contribute anything. Let's see, it is not difficult, if you do not know, inform us to give your opinion, and that's it.

You aren't contributing anything to your own suggestion aside from arguments that have more holes in them than Swiss cheese.

[Cacha]

No men, the comp could be exactly the same as in the official games and what would you have to say in defense of it not? Look at the title and the first comment, I suggested enabling all the Pokémon as usual, putting a dungeon is already very hackrom, the uber Pokémon like arceus and mega rayquaza because they stay there, and whoever wants to use a moltres Well, be free, today there are much more broken OU Pokémon than any legendary.

 

And if you really know, you know and have played the official games online and with other people, then I don't understand how you can defend this position that makes no sense.

[Etozuri]

27 minutes ago, Cacha said:

No men, the comp could be exactly the same as in the official games and what would you have to say in defense of it not? Look at the title and the first comment, I suggested enabling all the Pokémon as usual, putting a dungeon is already very hackrom, the uber Pokémon like arceus and mega rayquaza because they stay there, and whoever wants to use a moltres Well, be free, today there are much more broken OU Pokémon than any legendary.

 

And if you really know, you know and have played the official games online and with other people, then I don't understand how you can defend this position that makes no sense.

As Xela has already stated probably multiple times now by implementing any old uber legendary trainer, e4, gym re battles will become effortless and disrupt the games difficulty and economic balance therefore It would be a lot easier for anyone to get money. This is bad because the economy is already inflated enough as is thank you. 

 

Also the meta (comp) wouldn't be the same anyway due to not having HA's so many pokemon such as lando T which is already "S" (in OU) as is couldn't be checked as commonly by pokemon like Poison heal on Gliscor for example. It would lead to an imbalance competitively and economically. 

 

Im not against the implementation on legends such as the lake trio bird trio etc but even mons such as zapdos would be harmful to the balance of the game at this time. 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Etozuri

[Cacha]

Currently it is possible to do all gyms with 2 or 3 Pokémon nothing else, the legendary would not bring any complications. And the comp worse than it is because I see it difficult xD. Just enter pvp and you will see the same 20 rotating pokes, same strategies and same game modes. Zapdos would not bring any problem, physical wall is often used and is perfectly trolleable.

[Pizzachu]

From what i've seen so far, it honestly looks like theres a portion of the community that doesn't give a shit if being able to catch legendaries like a normal pokemon game 'makes them less special', and another portion that will defend whatever the most logical reason they can come up with to the death.

I think it can safely be said however that unless the dev team magically changes their mind over night or the code goes open source, there's no number of people that are going to make them budge on the issue regardless of how they suggest it be implemented. At the end of the day, while i strongly disagree with how they feel about legendary pokemon, i'm not the one making the game, and for that reason i think as users it'd probably be best to just agree to disagree.

[Etozuri]

3 hours ago, Cacha said:

Currently it is possible to do all gyms with 2 or 3 Pokémon nothing else, the legendary would not bring any complications. And the comp worse than it is because I see it difficult xD. Just enter pvp and you will see the same 20 rotating pokes, same strategies and same game modes. Zapdos would not bring any problem, physical wall is often used and is perfectly trolleable.

 By implementing legends you will still be playing with "20" rotating mons but just different ones the meta wont be anymore diverse because they will make other mons less viable and the strategies to win a game will depend on the match up so I don't completely understand what you mean but anyway there are a lot of niche mons that are viable in OU so its up to you if you want to use the same strategies. 

 

The problem in zapdos in OU is a different topic entirely but considering it checks/walls the top three most used pokemon in OU and a multitude of other mons depending on sets the meta would probably be too over centralised. 

 

Pokemmo makes an effort to ease people into competitive pokemon and stuff like gyms and e4 are decently challenging for players so you actually have to spend time and money preparing mons. The problem with legends is that if you obtain them in the same way as the main series you would breeze through the rest of the game and when doing re runs most legends have a lot of bulk, speed and offence which would make it considerably easier for any players to start racking up cash. Easy money in a MMO with not a whole lot of cash sinks is not a good thing.

3 hours ago, Calibrumm said:

I firmly believe your head is a solid slab of bedrock at this point.

yes 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Etozuri

[Cacha]

I do not agree with the idea that there is an incentive through developers to improve the comp, it is reflected when you want to play in another tier within pvp whether ranked or normal. There is no alternative but to play in the tournaments against the same people who always register or enter Ou with a team made up of Pokémon low tier. You can say that I have a closed head and whatever they want, but there is a truth which is that millions of people enjoy and have fun playing the original games with their possibilities and corresponding regulations and nothing there works badly, I consider that implementing more measures of these Original games would obviously make this grow, which is nothing more than a re-version that is no better. And as much as it is an Mmo, the money you earn after all is used to raise Pokémon and go to compete, I don't know what relationship between the fact that there are legendary "ruin the economy." It is false, so far they have not been able to deny any of my arguments, only focusing on conditionals and stipulations.

[XelaKebert]

6 hours ago, Cacha said:

No men, the comp could be exactly the same as in the official games and what would you have to say in defense of it not? Look at the title and the first comment, I suggested enabling all the Pokémon as usual, putting a dungeon is already very hackrom, the uber Pokémon like arceus and mega rayquaza because they stay there, and whoever wants to use a moltres Well, be free, today there are much more broken OU Pokémon than any legendary.

 

And if you really know, you know and have played the official games online and with other people, then I don't understand how you can defend this position that makes no sense.

 

5 hours ago, Cacha said:

Currently it is possible to do all gyms with 2 or 3 Pokémon nothing else, the legendary would not bring any complications. And the comp worse than it is because I see it difficult xD. Just enter pvp and you will see the same 20 rotating pokes, same strategies and same game modes. Zapdos would not bring any problem, physical wall is often used and is perfectly trolleable.

 

24 minutes ago, Cacha said:

I do not agree with the idea that there is an incentive through developers to improve the comp, it is reflected when you want to play in another tier within pvp whether ranked or normal. There is no alternative but to play in the tournaments against the same people who always register or enter Ou with a team made up of Pokémon low tier. You can say that I have a closed head and whatever they want, but there is a truth which is that millions of people enjoy and have fun playing the original games with their possibilities and corresponding regulations and nothing there works badly, I consider that implementing more measures of these Original games would obviously make this grow, which is nothing more than a re-version that is no better. And as much as it is an Mmo, the money you earn after all is used to raise Pokémon and go to compete, I don't know what relationship between the fact that there are legendary "ruin the economy." It is false, so far they have not been able to deny any of my arguments, only focusing on conditionals and stipulations.

You know what? I'm done explaining MMO economies to you so here's some homework.

 

 

 

 

[BoltBlades12]

1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

You know what? I'm done explaining MMO economies to you so here's some homework.

(Video about Power Creep)

(Video about Economy)

(ANOTHER video about economy)

With all the nerfs and “fixes” done to gameplay, the economy has already been ruined to where if we got full-access(perma-keep) to all the legendaries(including Ubers), nothing really would change.

 

And yes, while legendaries could make gyms/e4 easier, that’s not entirely a problem.

Because:

 

1) The Gym leader AI’s here are quite advanced and aren’t potatoes like they can be in the vanilla games. So even if we got the full legendary set, employing them is a whole other story, especially against advanced AI’s.

 

2) Gym Leaders/E4 currently have access to legendaries and other mons we cannot access. It would simply balance the scale from near-impossible tasks to an even fight.

 

3) Gyms/E4 already have had reward yields nerfed and devalued plenty of times. So including the legendaries(as well as Ubers) would merely cause a similar devalue, which again isn’t that big of a deal.

 

4) If difficultly is THAT big of a deal, then they can just as easily make the Gym rematches lvl 90-100 as opposed to the casual lvl 80.

 

5) Regarding legendaries, you’re acting like they’re so invincible that only Uber legends can beat Uber legends, which is not the case. Plenty of non-OU/Uber mons can defeat them(which the gym leaders/E4/PvP players could easily possess)

Ex: Froslass/Cryogonal outspeeds Rayquaza and one-shots it with Ice Beam, even if the former aren’t 252 Sp Attack Ev invested/natured.

Ex 2: Sableye/Spiritomb completely wall Mewtwo, not only in terms of typing, but there’s no non-STAB move Mewtwo has that can OHKO, which can allow for antics on the SE/ST side.

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.....

 

(and yes, I’m aware that those specific matchups won’t occur EVERY TIME, but those are examples of Pokémon that can easily shut down Uber legendaries that are not of the Uber class, or even OU at that)

 

And I’m not gonna bring dungeon economy up entirely since we don’t have them yet, and hence we don’t know how they’ll affect the economy.

However, if it’s true that dungeons will function similar to the Elfbot quests, in terms of Revive and Potion use, it completely evens out.

By that, I mean depending on the difficulty of the dungeons, that would mean less or much more Revives/Potions/Elixirs being bought/consumed, as opposed to the possibly lesser amount used in Gym rematches.

But again, until dungeons officially come out and we see the mechanics behind them, this segment is pure speculation.

Edited July 28, 2019 by BoltBlades12

[XelaKebert]

4 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

With all the nerfs and “fixes” done to gameplay, the economy has already been ruined to where if we got full-access(perma-keep) to all the legendaries(including Ubers), nothing really would change.

No, not it has not been ruined. 

 

4 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

1) The Gym leader AI’s here are quite advanced and aren’t potatoes like they can be in the vanilla games. So even if we got the full legendary set, employing them is a whole other story, especially against advanced AI’s.

Uber legends require a team specifically built to counter them. This itself is a problem because if you have to go out of your way to build something to counter a specific threat, it's unhealthy. The teams are built such that they can apply in about any scenario presented to them.

 

4 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

2) Gym Leaders/E4 currently have access to legendaries and other mons we cannot access. It would simply balance the scale from near-impossible tasks to an even fight.

Yet none of those legends are Uber now are they? They are more difficult to beat, but they are not impossible and allowing free access to Ubers specifically to make that easier is bad because they are able face down pretty much every threat thrown at them.

 

4 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

3) Gyms/E4 already have had reward yields nerfed and devalued plenty of times. So including the legendaries(as well as Ubers) would merely cause a similar devalue, which again isn’t that big of a deal.

That's still bad because of the issues mentioned in the Power Creep video. When you start making it so anything prior to that specific content is worthless players will begin to quit. Ubers balance literally nothing, they instead tip the scales too far into the player's favor.

 

4 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

 

4) If difficultly is THAT big of a deal, then they can just as easily make the Gym rematches lvl 90-100 as opposed to the casual lvl 80.

That's not the issue again. The issue is allowing players access to something that has been universally agreed upon as being unhealthy for gameplay. When you have to redesign core aspects around something new, that's a problem.

 

4 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

5) Regarding legendaries, you’re acting like they’re so invincible that only Uber legends can beat Uber legends, which is not the case. Plenty of non-OU/Uber mons can defeat them(which the gym leaders/E4/PvP players could easily possess)

Ex: Froslass/Cryogonal outspeeds Rayquaza and one-shots it with Ice Beam, even if the former aren’t 252 Sp Attack Ev invested/natured.

Ex 2: Sableye/Spiritomb completely wall Mewtwo, not only in terms of typing, but there’s no non-STAB move Mewtwo has that can OHKO, which can allow for antics on the SE/ST side.

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.....

 

(and yes, I’m aware that those specific matchups won’t occur EVERY TIME, but those are examples of Pokémon that can easily shut down Uber legendaries that are not of the Uber class, or even OU at that)

Again, you are requiring specific checks and counters to deal with something that could easily just be excluded. If you have to build to counter specific threats instead of a general range of threats you are tipping gameplay into an unhealthy direction.

 

4 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

And I’m not gonna bring dungeon economy up entirely since we don’t have them yet, and hence we don’t know how they’ll affect the economy.

However, if it’s true that dungeons will function similar to the Elfbot quests, in terms of Revive and Potion use, it completely evens out.

By that, I mean depending on the difficulty of the dungeons, that would mean less or much more Revives/Potions/Elixirs being bought/consumed, as opposed to the possibly lesser amount used in Gym rematches.

But again, until dungeons officially come out and we see the mechanics behind them, this segment is pure speculation.

Then stop proposing these hypothetical scenarios that will never happen. You are picking out specific instances and using them to justify your stance when the fact of the matter is that it's still unhealthy for the game to allow Uber legends to be freely available. This is an MMO not a singleplayer game. In this realm there are reasons to not give the player everything they want.

[Pizzachu]

Would nerfing the ubers themselves to the point where they're not ubers work? Or is there a problem with that too?

[razimove]

22 minutes ago, Pizzachu said:

Would nerfing the ubers themselves to the point where they're not ubers work? Or is there a problem with that too?

First off, forget the idea of ubers, just remove that from your head as it's 100% irrelevant currently, since you dont know which we might get.

And no they would not be nerfing their base stats. 
 

No, they don't matter for PvE, game is already too easy so it's just laughable that someone thinks they have any impact there, they do however have a very important role for PvP. Which lets be honest, it's legit the only thing other than the nostalgy that really has some value in the game.

Edited July 28, 2019 by razimove

[XelaKebert]

23 minutes ago, Pizzachu said:

Would nerfing the ubers themselves to the point where they're not ubers work? Or is there a problem with that too?

I would separate out Uber and Uber Legends. Ubers as a tier simply does not exist in PokeMMO anymore. Pokemon that used to fall into those tiers had their available moves and abilities tweaked so that they would not need to be banned from OU. Ubers as a tier exists solely as a banlist for OU. The dev team has taken the stance that banning stuff from OU is simply not good design and have been working to make sure that nothing would be banned from OU going forward. As for Uber Legends, there really isn't anything the devs could do short of nerfing their stats, which they have decided against doing because that wouldn't necessarily change anything.

1 minute ago, razimove said:

First off, forget the idea of ubers, just remove that from your head as it's 100% irrelevant currently, since you dont know which we might get.

And no they would not be nerfing their base stats. 
 

No, they don't matter for PvE, they do however have a very important role for PvP. Which lets be honest, it's legit the only thing other than the nostalgy that really has some value in the game.

I mean, the first point is pretty spot on. Aside from Arceus when Sinnoh is added, we can't be certain which other legends will fall into Uber. Though I'd suspect the Regi Trio and the Birds most likely won't qualify as Uber. I would hope when dungeons progress a bit farther into development they might open a public discussion regarding Uber legends for the remaining ones, but we simply don't know yet. The second point is spot on too because it's something they have already said they will not do, unless something has changed in their mind in the last several months since then. As for your final point, they do and don't matter for PvE. They do matter in the sense that they provide access to something more powerful to use in Gym and E4 rematches as well as something that would be highly desired on the GTL, if they are tradeable. They do matter more for PvP because they provide more checks and counters for species already in existing tiers though. The point of nostalgia is pretty spot on though. For PvE, the main reason anyone who isn't a comp player would want any legend is simply due to the drive to complete the dex and nostalgia.

[BoltBlades12]

Perhaps we should wait until dungeons come closer to implementation before we really discuss legendaries.

 

The only legendary I could see a problem with would probably be Arceus since it’s stats are all around 120. 

(Even in the vanilla games it’s banned in all tournament formats)

 

But besides Arceus, the other supposedly Uber legends are fine.

 

Perhaps they could add all the legendaries in dungeons

(and potentially move Mewtwo and Ray there as well)

 

So every legendary would be available in dungeons except for Arceus, which could in turn be the new and only KotH legendary.

Edited July 28, 2019 by BoltBlades12

[Cacha]

Little by little we started to agree, that nostalgia factor that they mentioned had not taken into account, however, it is the most real thing that I may have read so far, because if they think about it, even if they put the legendary and this post will result, at After all, we would not use them, nobody would use the birds, or the regis, because they are bad, perfectly countable by any poke of any tier, but fill the dex and go around with your favorite Pokémon and maybe try a team where can work ... is that, nostalgia.

[Cacha]

7 hours ago, XelaKebert said:

Then stop proposing these hypothetical scenarios that will never happen. You are picking out specific instances and using them to justify your stance when the fact of the matter is that it's still unhealthy for the game to allow Uber legends to be freely available. This is an MMO not a singleplayer game. In this realm there are reasons to not give the player everything they want.

This game is exactly the same as the one you play in single player and then compete online, look, farming, economics, absolutely everything aims to raise Pokémon and fight, if you are good at it, you do not need to talk, you do not need money, and It becomes the same as single player. I tell you from experience, when I discovered that I could buy items for PB earned in pvp and then sell them for money to buy some breed or something, I left the economy aside and focused only on pvp, you don't need money if you know what you play And you're good at it. For me nothing has changed with the nerves of the berries, neither the lucky egg nor the amulet, I continue to enter pvp and take out 9 or 10k a day and I only do gyms when I am lazy to shake stern stones to raise. And the original games for 3ds are exactly the same, just don't see other npc around you, but the trade center exists, the fighting section exists, everything is the same, I don't understand what you don't want to accept.

[XelaKebert]

Just now, Cacha said:

This game is exactly the same as the one you play in single player and then compete online, look, farming, economics, absolutely everything aims to raise Pokémon and fight, if you are good at it, you do not need to talk, you do not need money, and It becomes the same as single player. I tell you from experience, when I discovered that I could buy items for PB earned in pvp and then sell them for money to buy some breed or something, I left the economy aside and focused only on pvp, you don't need money if you know what you play And you're good at it. For me nothing has changed with the nerves of the berries, neither the lucky egg nor the amulet, I continue to enter pvp and take out 9 or 10k a day and I only do gyms when I am lazy to shake stern stones to raise. And the original games for 3ds are exactly the same, just don't see other npc around you, but the trade center exists, the fighting section exists, everything is the same, I don't understand what you don't want to accept.

No it's not. Let's list a few shall we?

 

Breeding in the base games is super easy and you don't have to trade the parents.

Legends are freely available, just walk up and start battle. They aren't here.

Amulet Coin is a permanent buff on money earned vs time based buff here.

Lucky Egg is a permanent EXP buff vs a time based buff here.

There are more berry patches available to farm. You couldn't farm berries in Unova.

You need specific tools to get Berry seeds instead of simply planting a berry.

Berry plants wilt over time if not watered properly.

The AI is actually somewhat competent here vs being potato in the base games.

Rebattles have cooldowns on them.

The movepools are a combination of moves the Pokemon has access to from Gen 2-7 so long as it existed in gen 5 (except in the case of some species that were once considered Uber).

You can't trade certain Pokemon here.

The GTL lists items and Pokemon and only allows in game currency transactions.

You get to travel between 3, soon to be 4, regions.

There are hard level caps that you cannot level past.

Default battle style is Set vs allowing Shift.

 

This isn't even a comprehensive list either. Take a trip through the old changelogs and you will see hundreds of differences between PokeMMO and the base games.

 

You have very clearly never played PokeMMO much at all. The fact you claim that you don't need money if you know what you play shows how little knowledge you have. Ask any comp player and they will tell you how many teams they have and how you need to be almost constantly ready to handle new threats in the meta. That requires money. In fact, there isn't a single thing you can do that doesn't involve money aside from AFK, which you appear to do quite a bit of given your attitude. Battle Point selling still involves money. You have to spend money for items to use in Battle Frontier. Those consumables don't come back. If you farm Pokemon you are still using money on Pokeballs, Repels, and Potions. You need money to get stuff from the GTL. You need money to get harvesting tools for berry farming. So where is it that you don't need money in game if you are playing? Kindly explain that to me because we appear to be playing very different games. Kind in mind, I've been around since 2012. I remember stuff that new players like you have never experienced. When I started playing we didn't have even 25% of what is in game now. We had no elite 4, no trainer rematches, a potato AI, and breeding was a broken mess when it was finally added. I remember the tweaks being made to breeding where you had to unlock a certain number of traits on the offspring before the egg would even hatch. I remember when we couldn't pass guaranteed IVs or natures, let alone guarantee gender. Yet you have the stones to sit there and lecture me about how PokeMMO is the same as the base games? It's very clear you never went through the changes most players from 2012-2013 went through. It's quite clear you haven't played very much at all to be completely honest. Your lack of knowledge of the game is very telling. The fact that the only arguments you can bring are based on the base games or telling me I've never played any Pokemon in my life, very laughable, shows how little you really know about anything. You don't know what you don't know but you act like you do. Do you not realize that the legends we have access to so far, Mewtwo and Rayquaza, are shown in Official canon to have only one in existence? Why would we want 20,000 running around? What purpose does it serve aside from wasting your PC space and upsetting players when they realize they can't use them to steamroll the gyms? What purpose do they serve other than feeding your thirst for nostalgia when you could easily feed that by playing the vanilla games yourself? What is the point of allowing legends like Arceus to be perma-keep when you won't be able to use them? To fill the dex? You can do that within the mechanics set forth in PokeMMO already if you wanted to, but very clearly you don't want to put any effort into this. You'd rather walk up to a legend to initiate a battle than to actually earn the battle. That's not the design the devs have in mind and, unless something has changed, they have made no secrets about their intentions with legendaries. They want them to feel special when you capture one rather than just a static battle that anyone can initiate. That's why they want to do dungeons where parties will have a small chance of encountering one. That's why Mewtwo and Rayquaza are Global PvP events rather than static battles and you have to hunt them down in their respective locations. It's to allow you as the player to feel like you've accomplished something rather than just being handed something. Context is key. Is it fair to give everyone a static legendary battle? Absolutely, it's totally fair. Does it feel good to just be handed a legendary battle? Not at all, but the devs can meet halfway between fair mechanics and feel good mechanics to create something that is fair and feels good. This is their goal with the dungeons, to give everyone the same chance of encountering a legendary within that area while ensuring that they aren't so common that players don't even bother playing that content.

[Cacha]

What is clear is that you have not read much less tried to reason what I said, look I must not prove anything, I have only commented on my game mode, I have played 2000 hours, it is not much but it is not little, and yes, I have learned that with battle points obtained in great quantities in pvp you no longer need money, and if you need it, you buy some items obtainable through this medium and sell them for money and you already have to buy some breed, or pokeballs or whatever you want , if you focus only on the comp, then you don't spend money. You are looking for the breeds, the brasals and the eternal stones you are looking for and you buy with battle points, if you need berries to change evs you can as I told you, you sell something bought by pb and then buy berries, in general I only do gyms or I plant when I don't have much time to play pvp and I need comfort. I do not need legendary to quickly pass the gyms, the AI is very, very silly and with 3 or 4 pokémon lvl 100 you already pass all the gyms of all regions in one stroke. Items like lucky egg and amulet do not show me either, I do not use them or have used them in I care, I take the Pokémon to lvl 50 and now, I do not need that egg. What I really cannot believe is that you say that it is easier to breed in original games, where there are no hordes, you cannot see the ev's, nor the iv's, and nature does not pass with 100% effectiveness, clearly there you erred strong. The legendary must be only because they are Pokémon like the rest and now, they do not make anything easier or more difficult, for something when you are going to capture them you can kill them with a single blow and you must go carefully.

[BoltBlades12]

1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

Do you not realize that the legends we have access to so far, Mewtwo and Rayquaza, are shown in Official canon to have only one in existence?

Not true. Because in game canon:

- For Mewtwo, there’s one in Red/Blue, one in FireRed/Leafgreen, one in Heartgold/Soulsilver, one in X/Y, and two in Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon(one being the one you catch and the other being owned by Giovanni himself)

-For Rayquaza, there’s one in Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, one in Heartgold/SoulSilver, one in Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, and one in Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon.

-et cetera, et cetera, et cetera

 

So you’re wrong about there being only one of these legendaries in the games. I should also mention that the multiverse is canon in the games as confirmed by X/Y/OR/AS.

 

Even in the anime, there’s not just one:

- For Mewtwo, there’s the Mewtwo that was in Mewtwo Strikes Back and Mewtwo Returns. And there was also the Mewtwo in Genesect Awakens.

- For Rayquaza, there’s the one in Destiny Deoxys, the one in the Sinnoh series, the one in the Mega Evolution series, the Hoopa movie, and the one in the S/M series.

 

So even in the anime, there’s multiple of one legendaries and there’s not truly one.

 

The only legendary that there actually is only one of is Arceus. As in the games, the only place to get it is in D/P/Pt. And in the anime, there’s the one in Jewel of Life that also appears in the Hoopa movie.

 

Which brings me to point #2

1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

 Arceus

Arceus is the only legendary that I can agree with that shouldn’t be perma-keep. Since it actually is overpowered(120 in all stats, making it the highest base total of all Pokemon). Even in the vanilla games Arceus is banned from all forms of tournaments.

 

What could be done is that all the legendaries(including Mewtwo and Rayquaza) could be included in dungeons, EXCEPT for Arceus, who could then take the place as the one and only KotH legendary.

Edited July 28, 2019 by BoltBlades12

[XelaKebert]

2 minutes ago, Cacha said:

What is clear is that you have not read much less tried to reason what I said, look I must not prove anything, I have only commented on my game mode, I have played 2000 hours, it is not much but it is not little

I GM'd this game for the better part of 6 years, so lecturing me about anything related to this game is pretty dumb. Especially considering I ran Support for the majority of my time. Not to mention that when people who know more about comp than me are agreeing with me, you are wrong.

 

15 minutes ago, Cacha said:

I have learned that with battle points obtained in great quantities in pvp you no longer need money, and if you need it, you buy some items obtainable through this medium and sell them for money and you already have to buy some breed, or pokeballs or whatever you want , if you focus only on the comp, then you don't spend money. You are looking for the breeds, the brasals and the eternal stones you are looking for and you buy with battle points, if you need berries to change evs you can as I told you, you sell something bought by pb and then buy berries

What's funny is that you ignore that you can't directly trade Battle Points, but I guess since you no longer need money then money doesn't exist to you. That's like saying, "I don't drink water so water doesn't exist." It still exists whether or not you use it. Pokeyen is the currency on which EVERYTHING in game is valued. Battle Points are equated to Pokeyen for purposes of trading anything. To say otherwise shows you don't fully understand the economic ecosystem and only further proves your lack of knowledge of the mechanics. It's quite ridiculous for you to say that you no longer need money. You clearly don't do comp and spend your days farming Battle Frontier if this is the case. In which case, you are merely a broker for people who don't have the resources of time to farm themselves.

 

23 minutes ago, Cacha said:

I do not need legendary to quickly pass the gyms, the AI is very, very silly and with 3 or 4 pokémon lvl 100 you already pass all the gyms of all regions in one stroke.

While you may not need them or want to use them, other players would. You argue that they could simply be excluded from PvE and PvP, but then you don't answer my question as to what purpose they would serve in that capacity. You turn the rarest Pokemon in canon into glorified trophies for the sake of completing the Pokedex. We ignore shinies, because while they are incredibly rare in game, they aren't something really touched on in canon. So in this instance, you now allow players access to equipment they aren't allowed to use. Do you know what that will do? It will confuse and frustrate new players who haven't yet learned about the game. It makes the churn rate of the game itself go up because some won't even bother and simply quit. Congrats, you've killed a game.

 

27 minutes ago, Cacha said:

Items like lucky egg and amulet do not show me either, I do not use them or have used them in I care, I take the Pokémon to lvl 50 and now, I do not need that egg.

That's all well and good, but they still exist. Just because you don't use them, that doesn't mean they don't exist. Stop ignoring stuff you don't use.

 

28 minutes ago, Cacha said:

What I really cannot believe is that you say that it is easier to breed in original games, where there are no hordes, you cannot see the ev's, nor the iv's, and nature does not pass with 100% effectiveness, clearly there you erred strong.

Wow, let's ignore the plethora of online IV calcs, which were used for quite some time here, that will show you that information. Breeding is easier in game because you don't have to sacrifice the parents to get a single egg, once you have your formula down you just let them sit in Daycare to crank out eggs endlessly. You can't do that here. Here you have to farm up everything you need for each iteration of breeding. This means you need at least one of the desired species and a Ditto with a nature and IVs you want to pass for each step of the way. You also need money for braces to guarantee IVs you need pass, everstones, ability pills if you get the wrong ability, and guaranteeing gender if you want to go that route. That all requires time and effort in some form. Either by farming Battle Points as you do, or farming up the species and money to do it. Breeding here requires more effort than base games. The only thing that is easier here is knowing which IVs will pass because you can guarantee them and see the results before you commit. This is not something you can do in the base games.

 

33 minutes ago, Cacha said:

The legendary must be only because they are Pokémon like the rest and now, they do not make anything easier or more difficult, for something when you are going to capture them you can kill them with a single blow and you must go carefully.

Ha, no they aren't. They do, by nature, make things easier for those who do use them. We aren't talking capturing other Pokemon with them because there are utility Pokemon for that purpose. Trying to capture other Pokemon with a legendary is like throwing a nuke on your target when a single shot would do the trick. It's overkill and not necessary at all.

 

5 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Not true. Because in game canon:

- For Mewtwo, there’s one in Red/Blue, one in FireRed/Leafgreen, one in Heartgold/Soulsilver, one in X/Y, and two in Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon(one being the one you catch and the other being owned by Giovanni himself)

-For Rayquaza, there’s one in Ruby/Sapphire/Emerald, one in Heartgold/SoulSilver, one in Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire, and one in Ultra Sun/Ultra Moon.

-et cetera, et cetera, et cetera

 

So you’re wrong about there being only one of these legendaries in the games. I should also mention that the multiverse is canon in the games as confirmed by X/Y/OR/AS.

 

Even in the anime, there’s not just one:

- For Mewtwo, there’s the Mewtwo that was in Mewtwo Strikes Back and Mewtwo Returns. And there was also the Mewtwo in Genesect Awakens.

- For Rayquaza, there’s the one in Destiny Deoxys, the one in the Sinnoh series, the one in the Mega Evolution series, the Hoopa movie, and the one in the S/M series.

 

So even in the anime, there’s multiple of one legendaries and there’s not truly one.

You have to exclude remakes because those take place at the same time as originals but have updated mechanics to allow access to older gen species on newer systems.

 

Ok, so Mewtwo there are two of. The one in the first two movies and one in Genesect Awakens.

Rayquaza, there are two of because there is a normal and a shiny in movies.

 

Exclude Hoopa Unbound because that one is just a glorified Legend showcase to sell more merch.

 

So I will yield that point to you, but even still you have to consider PokeMMO being its own universe. In which case the devs only want one of them.

 

47 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Arceus is the only legendary that I can agree with that shouldn’t be perma-keep. Since it actually is overpowered(120 in all stats, making it the highest base total of all Pokemon). Even in the vanilla games Arceus is banned from all forms of tournaments.

 

What could be done is that all the legendaries(including Mewtwo and Rayquaza) could be included in dungeons, EXCEPT for Arceus, who could then take the place as the one and only KotH legendary.

Arceus has straight 120 which is cool, but Mewtwo and Rayquaza are 680, same with Dialga, Palkia, Reshiram, Zekrom, Ho-oh, Giratina, and Lugia. Groudon and Kyogre are base stat total of 670. There are very few Pokemon that aren't legends with those same totals. It's hard to argue they aren't OP given every single one has its own Signature move that is OP as hell. In addition to access to a large movepool and OP abilities unique to them. Short of nerfing their stats, there isn't much to do that would make them not Uber.

[Pizzachu]

Arceus is one of the few pokemon i can entirely agree with being too powerful to actually have a meaningful place in any balanced gameplay without major changes. Though it would be nice to at least have some kind of custom event/discoverable lore about why it completely disappeared.