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Allow all pokémon


Cacha

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My opinion comes from the love I have for this franchise and this community, I opened the debate but I did not close to their opinions, because I did not understand the message, in general terms they only told me "no because no". When from the beginning I raised the idea of placing them in uber or simply have them for specific tournaments where only one is allowed, or simply use them for free combats with our friends, where the balance would fail there? And I know the mechanics of the mmorpg and the jrpg, there is not much difference, except here where the sense of trade and farming is simply to make money to raise pokémon and fight against others. 

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13 minutes ago, Cacha said:

 

My opinion comes from the love I have for this franchise and this community, I opened the debate but I did not close to their opinions, because I did not understand the message, in general terms they only told me "no because no". When from the beginning I raised the idea of placing them in uber or simply have them for specific tournaments where only one is allowed, or simply use them for free combats with our friends, where the balance would fail there? And I know the mechanics of the mmorpg and the jrpg, there is not much difference, except here where the sense of trade and farming is simply to make money to raise pokémon and fight against others

I really dont understand how you still dont get it after it being explained to you 4 times very patiently. If someone can obtain a legendary easily, that makes it not special, and there are plans to make them obtainable in a special way eventually.

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6 minutes ago, PepperPoots said:

I really dont understand how you still dont get it after it being explained to you 4 times very patiently. If someone can obtain a legendary easily, that makes it not special, and there are plans to make them obtainable in a special way eventually.

Well, to be fair, considering that there’s 50+ legendaries in existence, it makes the term  “Legendary” not really special anymore. A Pokemon being “Legendary” isn’t nearly as special as it was back when it was just the birds, Mewtwo, and Mew.

The devs trying to replicate this “special” status for 50+ legendaries is a terrible idea and it won’t end well.

 

But I do agree that they should have a particular method to obtain them rather than throw them into the wild.

Edited by BoltBlades12
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1 minute ago, Cacha said:

 

The game is from 2013 and we only have three legendary regions and 2 pokes that nobody cares to look for them. The facts speak for themselves.

No one is forcing you to play. There is a specific vision for this game and legendaries in the capacity you want are not a part of that vision.

Edited by PepperPoots
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19 minutes ago, Cacha said:

And I know the mechanics of the mmorpg and the jrpg, there is not much difference, except here where the sense of trade and farming is simply to make money to raise pokémon and fight against others. 

Currently between PokeMMO and the base games sure, but MMORPG and JRPG are completely different with respect to how core gameplay is handled. MMORPG require you to interact with other players for certain elements wheras a JRPG allows you to experience everything without so much as interacting with anyone else. MMOs have a fragile economy to balace, JRPGs do not.

 

21 minutes ago, Cacha said:

in general terms they only told me "no because no".

No, you need to read my posts again. Everything was explained in them as best as I can explain them. The only other caveat I can add will be posted to another point.

 

23 minutes ago, Cacha said:

When from the beginning I raised the idea of placing them in uber or simply have them for specific tournaments where only one is allowed, or simply use them for free combats with our friends, where the balance would fail there?

Because the development team does not want anything in Ubers. They also do not like the idea of locking down specific species because they are overpowered because then you are giving players content that they cannot use. They also do not want to mess around with base stats. If any changes are made to so called "Uber" Pokemon the dev team wants to make them in a manner that does the least harm overall. Things like removing the ability for certain species to use particular movesets or abilities. This still allows you to access that species, but certain elements are completely removed from them so you do not lose the content.

 

24 minutes ago, Cacha said:

My opinion comes from the love I have for this franchise and this community, I opened the debate but I did not close to their opinions,

Passion is great, but you have indeed closed yourself off to any other counter arguments. You openly insulted people for disagreeing with you yet you say you did not close your mind to their opinions.

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I dedicated myself to responding in the same way to those who also attacked me because of my opinion, I have seen that the subject has been raised but it has never been solved or reached a conclusion. We all know that the team has a strange criterion to work, Dugtrio was uber for months because a user beat a GM, Blissey was also Uber, this I thought as a possible initiative to give a little more life to the competitive that already of if he is dead, only OU is played and in the tournaments you can watch calmly as they are always the same 50 players who participate. You also have to do something about it with that. With respect to the economy, in this game the money only serves to raise pokémon and compete. Until you learn to use only the PB as currency for everything. Of the cosmetics I will not say, they seem to me stuffed with cotillion.

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17 minutes ago, Cacha said:

I dedicated myself to responding in the same way to those who also attacked me because of my opinion, I have seen that the subject has been raised but it has never been solved or reached a conclusion.

What exactly is unclear about what I've said? I've laid out everything in a clear and concise manner. What exactly is your hang up?

 

19 minutes ago, Cacha said:

Dugtrio was uber for months because a user beat a GM

This is incorrect, I don't know where you got that idea, but it is blatantly false. Dugtrio was Uber because it was considered to be overly centralizing to the metagame. It became something that was required for everyone to run on their team to even be viable in Comp. That is why it was Uber.

 

20 minutes ago, Cacha said:

Blissey was also Uber

I mean yeah it was, but those not decisions made by the devs, there is a Tier Council tasked with making those decisions. Again for the same reason as Dugtrio. Do you even read the discussion threads in Competition Alley?

 

At present, nothing is in Ubers.

 

22 minutes ago, Cacha said:

I thought as a possible initiative to give a little more life to the competitive that already of if he is dead, only OU is played

Wat? I mean, yeah OU is the most popular Tier so there will be more OU tournaments, but you are basing this off of mostly matchmaking data. No one really plays Matchmaking anyway due to lack of rewards for players. That is an issue the dev team wants to address eventually, but it's not a priority for them. As of current there is an NU Seasonal posted, two OU, and one Little Cup.

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/forum/36-pokemmo-official-events/

 

A quick trip through the archive in the Official Events section will show just how wrong you are.

https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/forum/31-events-archive/

Right at the top I see two UU, one Doubles, and one NU. I barely even scrolled on the first page.

 

26 minutes ago, Cacha said:

in the tournaments you can watch calmly as they are always the same 50 players who participate. You also have to do something about it with that.

What would you propose be done? Lock players out of tournaments because they have "played in too many"? That's insane and will kill off the comp scene. Perhaps you should be queuing earlier. The automated tournaments are posted in game for all to see using the PvP menu. Everyone has equal access to the information, if you are not prepared to register then you won't get in. Plain and simple. Internet speed has very little impact on this. The old method of forum signups is only used for formats that are not automated, such as gimmicks like Monotype where there are rules that need to be manually enforced.

 

29 minutes ago, Cacha said:

With respect to the economy, in this game the money only serves to raise pokémon and compete. Until you learn to use only the PB as currency for everything. Of the cosmetics I will not say, they seem to me stuffed with cotillion.

I mean, that's the same for every MMO. Not sure why this is a complaint or an issue. The issue is allowing players access to uber legends that would serve as auto-wins for NPC rematches effectively inflating the economy to a point where yen is completely worthless. You clearly lack any basic understanding of how MMOs work. Shoot, this is my first and only MMO and I've learned to at least understand the basics of how things work. Perhaps you should invest some more time in learning the mechanics and how to make them work for you. That's how you make money. If you don't bother to put in the effort to learn you can't complain about those who do know how to make the mechanics work for them.

 

Your whole argument boils down to being completely clouded by nostalgia and personal bias. "It was this way in the cartridges so MMO should follow suit." When explained why it won't and shouldn't you proceeded to dismiss literally everything as flawed because your logic is infallible.

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I do not know what game you play then man xD. Try to find duel in ranked or normal pvp in UU or NU, you will be days and you will not achieve it, 24 hours a day in the 5 channels in chat either. The story of Dugtrio uber by a user vs an Adm is real. From the diplomacy you can be right in everything you say, but in practice, it seems that you play something else.

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48 minutes ago, Cacha said:

Dugtrio was uber for months because a user beat a GM

lmfao what? Had a laugh at your expense thanks. What made you assume that GMs are even decent at competitive? Cause I can very legit tell you, 95% of them haven't even played it, devs included.

No, dugtrio was banned due to 'Arena trap' being deemed unfair, which it is. Same to shadow tag and reason why wobb was up there aswell. Tier council, makes the decisions about what gets banned from X tier, dropped, etc.

 

13 minutes ago, Cacha said:

No, but if you find an epic strategy, there is a possibility that it becomes uber the poke with those moves

No. If the pokemon is deemed unhealthy to be played in OverUsed, it jumps tier to Uber. Reason why togekiss was discussed and some others in the past with/without them getting banned. I.E trappers, snorlax, chansey in gen3.
 

 

51 minutes ago, Cacha said:

With respect to the economy, in this game the money only serves to raise pokémon and compete.

It doens't but that's a separated topic. 

 

51 minutes ago, Cacha said:

only OU is played

This is false, all tiers are vastly played, only in matchmaking can you assume this, but matchmaking is memes. 

TL;DR; play the game.

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18 minutes ago, Cacha said:

 

I do not know what game you play then man xD. Try to find duel in ranked or normal pvp in UU or NU, you will be days and you will not achieve it, 24 hours a day in the 5 channels in chat either. The story of Dugtrio uber by a user vs an Adm is real. From the diplomacy you can be right in everything you say, but in practice, it seems that you play something else.

Want to play NU right now?

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48 minutes ago, Cacha said:

 

I do not know what game you play then man xD. Try to find duel in ranked or normal pvp in UU or NU, you will be days and you will not achieve it, 24 hours a day in the 5 channels in chat either. The story of Dugtrio uber by a user vs an Adm is real. From the diplomacy you can be right in everything you say, but in practice, it seems that you play something else.

I'm playing PokeMMO. You seem to be playing a different game. Maybe you got lost looking for their forums? If not I'm going Barney style on you.

 

1) Dugtrio was a bad at one point because everyone needed one to be viable. No GM or Admin banned it because they lost to one. I've been around since 2012 and am a former GM. Pretty sure I would have heard that story by now. Let that go. You are wrong. Competition Alley threads prove you wrong go look for them.

 

2) I've already addressed this. Read my post again.

 

There is no wrong in practice of what I have said. The only wrong one here is you and you will continue to be wrong until you provide evidence otherwise.

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1 hour ago, Cacha said:

I do not know what game you play then man xD. Try to find duel in ranked or normal pvp in UU or NU, you will be days and you will not achieve it, 24 hours a day in the 5 channels in chat either. The story of Dugtrio uber by a user vs an Adm is real. From the diplomacy you can be right in everything you say, but in practice, it seems that you play something else.

Dugtrio got banned on its time because Dugtrio was able to remove the main threats to defensive play without any effort. The best wallbreakers on its time were Metagross, Heracross and Ursaring - and all of these Pokemon Dugtrio was able to remove from the battle once it had a free switch in after sacking a Pokemon. Basically the way to win battles was sacking your Pokemon to these three offensive Pokemon just to get Dugtrio in safely and after removing those wallbreakers, just stall your opponent to death with Chansey/Skarmory/Milotic core. It was deemed super unhealthy and uncompetitive for skill based competitive play. 

 

Now, if you want to be taken seriously in these forums, please stop pulling false stories out of your ass.

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5 minutes ago, Bearminator said:

If we count ex-gms, then entire elite 4 roster, I've heard. 

 


Also both sides, please keep discussion civil, no need for insults when there is disagreement. 

I vote we lock the thread cause it's very obvious OP's only responses to valid arguments, reasons etc. are insults and calling people "childish" and "boot-lickers". Besides, why leave this open anyway? We're all already aware that non-overpowered legendaries will be coming into the game someday and why they weren't implemented the normal way. Besides, what else is there to be said other than the points already made? Also, props to everyone who actually didn't troll and took the effort to read OP's points and attempt to thoroughly explain things to them, especially Xela.

 

3 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

So by that logic, if I beat GM with a team of 6 lvl 1 Rattata’s, Rattata will become Uber, no?

Level 1s are banned from matchmaking and tourneys for that reason duh

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I get that having the legendaries would make the game too easy, but why not just give the three birds, regis, Groudon, Kyogre, Ho-Oh, Lugia, the hounds, and the rest of them the same treatment as Rayquaza? Then everyone could 100% complete the pokedex and yet no one would be able to keep them.

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6 minutes ago, FilipOrvik said:

I get that having the legendaries would make the game too easy, but why not just give the three birds, regis, Groudon, Kyogre, Ho-Oh, Lugia, the hounds, and the rest of them the same treatment as Rayquaza? Then everyone could 100% complete the pokedex and yet no one would be able to keep them.

Not all legendaries are auto-win species. Some are easily countered by other species. The devs have plans for ones that will be perma-keep.

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18 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

Not all legendaries are auto-win species. Some are easily countered by other species. The devs have plans for ones that will be perma-keep.

To be totally fair with you, every legendary has a check, one way or anotehr they're checked. Some, like for example Jirachi might become problematic because we wont have access to their proper checks, thats why I still wonder, how do they plan to introduce legendaries, like ho-oh, jirachi, heatran etc into the meta.

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13 minutes ago, razimove said:

To be totally fair with you, every legendary has a check, one way or anotehr they're checked. Some, like for example Jirachi might become problematic because we wont have access to their proper checks, thats why I still wonder, how do they plan to introduce legendaries, like ho-oh, jirachi, heatran etc into the meta.

A check is not a counter though, but you do have a point. I'd wager there are still a fair number of talks happening with respect to tiering the legends remaining properly.

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The truth is that if they do not implement the legendary just for losing exclusivity, it seems to me something without any sense, if they really think that they would make the game easier it also seems very silly to me, both gyms and npc can be done with any OU or pokémon lvl 100, with respect to the comp, all the legendary, birds, regys, lugia, ho oh, ect have very common counter of all the tier, the truth is that there is none invincible.

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8 minutes ago, Cacha said:

The truth is that if they do not implement the legendary just for losing exclusivity, it seems to me something without any sense, if they really think that they would make the game easier it also seems very silly to me, both gyms and npc can be done with any OU or pokémon lvl 100, with respect to the comp, all the legendary, birds, regys, lugia, ho oh, ect have very common counter of all the tier, the truth is that there is none invincible.

Have you not yet realized that the teams in the gyms aren't the same and are built in very specific ways? The point isn't that the gym rematches can be run with lvl 100s. The point is that the legends that would be excluded from normal play require teams built specifically to counter them, which is bad. You also missed the biggest point of all.

 

NOT ALL LEGENDS ARE GOING TO BE EXCLUDED FROM NORMAL GAMEPLAY! This means that there will be specific legends that you will get to keep, but they will be rare enough to make catching them an achievement rather than being handed something. You are getting your boxers in a twist over a small handful that will be treated like Mewtwo and Rayquaza.

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