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ShinySnorunt

Question about legendaries.

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Posted (edited)

Why? I saw the post explaining that legendaries aren’t available to keep, I don’t even get how that works to be honest. I think I’m genuinely done with this game man, they have changed many aspects and I tried to live with it but I’m not sure after finding out I literally have no choice in keeping and playing with legendaries that I’ll keep playing, maybe if someone explains why it’s this way it will help me? Extremely disappointed. Feel like I’ve wasted a good few hours just to find out I played through a hollow shell that’s honestly not even like the old ones I remember.  

Edited by ShinySnorunt

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Just wanna point this out, not saying this is the main reason or anything, but this is an mmo, how "original" would it be to have thousands one-of-a-kind legendaries like mewtwo or rayquaza floating around the same server? Every new player with 10 hours or whatever walking around all with mewtwo in their back pocket. I get that your frustrated or whatever but your main point is kinda contradictory. In cannon pokemon there is only 1 of each. Same here.

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27 minutes ago, awkways said:

Just wanna point this out, not saying this is the main reason or anything, but this is an mmo, how "original" would it be to have thousands one-of-a-kind legendaries like mewtwo or rayquaza floating around the same server? Every new player with 10 hours or whatever walking around all with mewtwo in their back pocket. I get that your frustrated or whatever but your main point is kinda contradictory. In cannon pokemon there is only 1 of each. Same here.

I think I’ve completely missed what the point of this game was. I’m just disappointed I didn’t realize exactly what the game was when I started. My point wasn’t contradicting, my point was I was disappointed in this game, so there’s not much to contradict. Simply put, this game is nothing close to what I thought it was. I get that you were trying to help or whatever, but you’re explanation (if that’s what you want to call it) has truly helped me see this game for what it is, a modded mess. Hope you guys continue to find entertainment in it though. Peace.

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There is something we have been waiting for this thing is called 'Dungeons' where we are supposed to be able to catch legendaries and pokemon with their HA - Hidden Ability if you guys want more information i think there was an old post where @Matoka asked some information to the Devs about this.

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7 hours ago, ShinySnorunt said:

Why? I saw the post explaining that legendaries aren’t available to keep, I don’t even get how that works to be honest. I think I’m genuinely done with this game man, they have changed many aspects and I tried to live with it but I’m not sure after finding out I literally have no choice in keeping and playing with legendaries that I’ll keep playing, maybe if someone explains why it’s this way it will help me? Extremely disappointed. Feel like I’ve wasted a good few hours just to find out I played through a hollow shell that’s honestly not even like the old ones I remember.  

Legendary pokemon are far stronger than majority of pokemon, and many of them would be instantly placed into ubers (Which effectively makes them unusable to majority of players as Ubers is probably the least played "tier"), Zekrom, Rayquaza, and Mewtwo are legendaries that are available for temporary capture and would all be too strong for OU so would end up being banned effectively.
It has been mentioned prior that Dungeons will be added to the game in the future and will likely involve the ability to permanently obtain legendary pokemon.

 

I am sorry to hear that these changes are ruining the experience for you, however it is likely far healthier for the game for no one to have certain legendaries than for people to have them and not be able to use (or alternatively if they aren't banned to ubers everyone is basically forced to use them as they are too strong to NOT use in competitive play).

 

1 hour ago, Takens said:

There is something we have been waiting for this thing is called 'Dungeons' where we are supposed to be able to catch legendaries and pokemon with their HA - Hidden Ability if you guys want more information i think there was an old post where @Matoka asked some information to the Devs about this.

If anyone decides to read that old out-of-date thread please make sure you read the disclaimers, nothing said inside of it is guaranteed and is almost a year old at this point so take EVERYTHING inside of it with a pinch- no, heaps of salt please. Just a reminder.

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I don't understand why those useless posts aren't instantly locked and deleted. I mean if you want to leave, then leave noone really care honestly

Why bother creating a forum post about it ? If you want to play like the original games just use an emulator and a rom like everyone, this is not the purpose of PokeMMO :)

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50 minutes ago, TohnR said:

I don't understand why those useless posts aren't instantly locked and deleted. I mean if you want to leave, then leave noone really care honestly

Why bother creating a forum post about it ? If you want to play like the original games just use an emulator and a rom like everyone, this is not the purpose of PokeMMO :)

Posts with questions about things someone isn't sure why is the case aren't trash posts, there's nothing wrong with wanting to know something and asking about it.

That's why these posts aren't instantly locked and deleted.

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12 hours ago, awkways said:

Just wanna point this out, not saying this is the main reason or anything, but this is an mmo, how "original" would it be to have thousands one-of-a-kind legendaries like mewtwo or rayquaza floating around the same server? Every new player with 10 hours or whatever walking around all with mewtwo in their back pocket. I get that your frustrated or whatever but your main point is kinda contradictory. In cannon pokemon there is only 1 of each. Same here.

That wouldn't exactly be a problem, having people running around with legendaries.

Also, the whole 1 of each legendary has been proven false on multiple occasions:

Example A: Credits-scene of Pokemon Heroes, as Ash and co. are leaving Alto Mare, you can see multiple Latias/Latios flying above them. Even Nurse Joy and Tobias have a Latias and Latios

Example B: You see Heatran within mountains, under control of Marcus, even a Heatran under the control of some random background trainer for the Lily of the Valley Conference

Example C: The Regis protect the Tree of Life, yet we also see them under the ownership of Brandon.

Example D: You see a Kyogre that works for Manaphy in the Temple of the Sea movie. You see another one that clashes with Primal Groudon that Steven and Alain try to stop. You also see another one that Lana helps recover in the new SM episode.

Example E: There are millions of Shaymin and they aren't bound to one.

 

So multiple legendaries being seen in one game wouldn't exactly be an issue, especially if it were smaller ones, like Zapdos, Latios, or Suicune.

 

6 hours ago, Matoka said:

Legendary pokemon are far stronger than majority of pokemon, and many of them would be instantly placed into ubers (Which effectively makes them unusable to majority of players as Ubers is probably the least played "tier"), Zekrom, Rayquaza, and Mewtwo are legendaries that are available for temporary capture and would all be too strong for OU so would end up being banned effectively.

To be fair, Choice Scarf Draco Meteor Hydreigon one-shots any legendary that doesn't resist draco meteor. Besides, what's wrong with giving a little more light to Uber? The reason nobody plays that tier in pvp is because there's so little ubers to choose from to where you'd be using a mix of ou and below to compensate.

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1 minute ago, BoltBlades12 said:

To be fair, Choice Scarf Draco Meteor Hydreigon one-shots any legendary that doesn't resist draco meteor. Besides, what's wrong with giving a little more light to Uber? The reason nobody plays that tier in pvp is because there's so little ubers to choose from to where you'd be using a mix of ou and below to compensate.

This line of reasoning is not how competitive works.

It is not healthy for the game if suddenly everyone is required to do things like run scarf Hydreigon or instantly lose the match effectively, also scarf hydreigon would need to get a safe switch in on the legendary it is going to "one-shot" (which isn't really the case for most legendaries, and also Hydreigon doesn't get Draco Meteor here in pokemmo anyway).

If you wish to discuss how competitive play works, may I suggest the following sub-section of our forums so you may do some light reading at your leisure:
https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/forum/23-competition-alley/

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2 minutes ago, Matoka said:

This line of reasoning is not how competitive works.

It is not healthy for the game if suddenly everyone is required to do things like run scarf Hydreigon or instantly lose the match effectively, also scarf hydreigon would need to get a safe switch in on the legendary it is going to "one-shot" (which isn't really the case for most legendaries, and also Hydreigon doesn't get Draco Meteor here in pokemmo anyway).

If you wish to discuss how competitive play works, may I suggest the following sub-section of our forums so you may do some light reading at your leisure:
https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/forum/23-competition-alley/

I wasn't implying that ONLY Choice Scarf Draco Hydreigon one shots most legendaries, was just giving in example. As "legendary" as they are(since there's over 52 legendaries now, they kinda lost that special status), it doesn't mean they're invincible by any means. It's not like only legendaries can defeat legendaries, they can be taken out as simply as any other Pokemon.

Ex: One ice-type attack one shots majority sets of Landorus-T

Ex: One Solar Beam one shots Groudon, especially since sun removes the extra turn for solar beam to charge

Ex: A fully invested Sp. Attack Thunder one-shots most variants of Kyogre, especially since Thunder in rain becomes 100% accuracy

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Matoka said:

 If you wish to discuss how competitive play works, may I suggest the following sub-section of our forums so you may do some light reading at your leisure:
https://forums.pokemmo.eu/index.php?/forum/23-competition-alley/

That's not the point I'm trying to make. The point is, legendaries are just as important to the game as any other pokemon is. Not just in terms of pvp, but also in dex completion and other means. You can never truly complete the pokedex until you also catch the, you guessed it, legendaries. Just removing legendaries and pretending they don't exist is just unlawful. And the whole King of the Hill thing for Mewtwo and Rayquaza doesn't necessarily count because you don't get the same sense of accomplishment since you don't get to keep them, and they merely become a dex entry.

Besides, not everyone uses legendaries JUST for pvp. Even then, it wouldn't be the end of the world if we saw other people running around with their Suicune or Latios.

It also doesn't really make sense that random npcs can have legendaries, but the player base cannot.

 

Also, in my opinion, even if legendaries were to break pvp, it's entertaining beyond ends to watch some noob with a team of 6 Ubers get destroyed by a cheesy UU sweep set.

Edited by BoltBlades12

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1 hour ago, BoltBlades12 said:

That wouldn't exactly be a problem, having people running around with legendaries.

Also, the whole 1 of each legendary has been proven false on multiple occasions:

Example A: Credits-scene of Pokemon Heroes, as Ash and co. are leaving Alto Mare, you can see multiple Latias/Latios flying above them. Even Nurse Joy and Tobias have a Latias and Latios

Example B: You see Heatran within mountains, under control of Marcus, even a Heatran under the control of some random background trainer for the Lily of the Valley Conference

Example C: The Regis protect the Tree of Life, yet we also see them under the ownership of Brandon.

Example D: You see a Kyogre that works for Manaphy in the Temple of the Sea movie. You see another one that clashes with Primal Groudon that Steven and Alain try to stop. You also see another one that Lana helps recover in the new SM episode. 

Example E: There are millions of Shaymin and they aren't bound to one.

 

So multiple legendaries being seen in one game wouldn't exactly be an issue, especially if it were smaller ones, like Zapdos, Latios, or Suicune. 

That's exactly why I didn't bring up these particular legendaries and said:

14 hours ago, awkways said:

one-of-a-kind legendaries like mewtwo or rayquaza

To be clear, I was only talking about the ones we actually have now, and why we don't get to keep them - to my knowledge there is only 1 of each of Rayquaza, Mewtwo or Zekrom. I do appreciate the history of anime you've watched though.

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6 minutes ago, awkways said:

That's exactly why I didn't bring up these particular legendaries and said:

To be clear, I was only talking about the ones we actually have now, and why we don't get to keep them - to my knowledge there is only 1 of each of Rayquaza, Mewtwo or Zekrom. I do appreciate the history of anime you've watched though.

Not true.

A: There's more than one Mewtwo because otherwise, it would've remembered Ash in Genesect and the Legend Awakens, as it would by that logic be the same one from Mewtwo Strikes Back and Mewtwo Returns,

B: There was a Zekrom summoned by Hoopa 2000 years before the main events of the anime. There's also one that appears in the Victini movie. And also that one that drains Pikachu's electricity at the beginning of Unova.

C: There are also multiple Rayquaza. Like the one that attacked Deoxys in Destiny Deoxys. And the one that Mega Evolved that stopped Primal Groudon and Kyogre. And also that shiny Rayquaza that appears in the Hoopa movie.

 

There isn't exactly "one-of-a-kind" legendaries anymore. Like how Lugia can have babies and Latias/os can reproduce.

 

And before you say anything about legendaries no longer being "legendary" if everyone has them, might I remind you that there arae at least 50 legendaries in existence right now. The term "legendary" isn't nearly as meaningful as it was back when it was just the 3 birds, Mewtwo, and Mew.

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Really it's because they'd shatter PVE and if they're trying to make PVE more challenging, giving you a 580 BST single stage Pokemon (Meaning you don't have to gruelingly level your shitty Pupitar until it gets good) on a Pokeball's whim would shatter their idea of challenge. Imagine doing Unova first and then rolling through late game Kanto and Hoenn with your Zekrom

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3 hours ago, suigin said:

Really it's because they'd shatter PVE and if they're trying to make PVE more challenging, giving you a 580 BST single stage Pokemon (Meaning you don't have to gruelingly level your shitty Pupitar until it gets good) on a Pokeball's whim would shatter their idea of challenge. Imagine doing Unova first and then rolling through late game Kanto and Hoenn with your Zekrom

I think you misunderstood my post, I was wondering why Zekrom is stuck in your unova room after you beat the region ( I played though unova first) and you can't roam throughout the Unova with Zekrom (to find the Seven Sages) Im not complaining that you can't take a whole team of level 60 Pokemon through to the next region, who in their right mind would want that the games would no longer be a challenge at all. And as for making PVE challenging, im not sure that's the main motive, because if you get stuck at a gym or league member you can simply buy a Pokemon from the Global Trade that matches the typing you need in order to progress through. So im not sure what youre talking about to be honest.

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11 hours ago, Matoka said:

Legendary pokemon are far stronger than majority of pokemon, and many of them would be instantly placed into ubers (Which effectively makes them unusable to majority of players as Ubers is probably the least played "tier"), Zekrom, Rayquaza, and Mewtwo are legendaries that are available for temporary capture and would all be too strong for OU so would end up being banned effectively.
It has been mentioned prior that Dungeons will be added to the game in the future and will likely involve the ability to permanently obtain legendary pokemon.

 

I am sorry to hear that these changes are ruining the experience for you, however it is likely far healthier for the game for no one to have certain legendaries than for people to have them and not be able to use (or alternatively if they aren't banned to ubers everyone is basically forced to use them as they are too strong to NOT use in competitive play).

 

If anyone decides to read that old out-of-date thread please make sure you read the disclaimers, nothing said inside of it is guaranteed and is almost a year old at this point so take EVERYTHING inside of it with a pinch- no, heaps of salt please. Just a reminder.

When challenging they should make an option that says "Ban use of Legendaries" that way if people want to not have Legendaries ruin their comp, they can leave them out, but as for me and friend that wanted a simple Vanilla style play though but with the ability to go through the whole of the regions together, they should allow players to have the option of having legendaries.

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Not true.

A: There's more than one Mewtwo because otherwise, it would've remembered Ash in Genesect and the Legend Awakens, as it would by that logic be the same one from Mewtwo Strikes Back and Mewtwo Returns.

Pokemon never was a franchise that cared much about coherence in it's movies or tv adaptations. Otherwise, Ash would not still be a teenager.

Edited by Hythalius

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Posted (edited)

One thing i'm rather curious about is how the mechanics would work in terms of endgame. which i hope @Darkshade could help me out here:
1- Fixed IV's?
2- Breedable? (with the same fashion as genderless)
3- Unable to be traded

Edited by Malorne

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5 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Not true.

A: There's more than one Mewtwo because otherwise, it would've remembered Ash in Genesect and the Legend Awakens, as it would by that logic be the same one from Mewtwo Strikes Back and Mewtwo Returns,

B: There was a Zekrom summoned by Hoopa 2000 years before the main events of the anime. There's also one that appears in the Victini movie. And also that one that drains Pikachu's electricity at the beginning of Unova.

C: There are also multiple Rayquaza. Like the one that attacked Deoxys in Destiny Deoxys. And the one that Mega Evolved that stopped Primal Groudon and Kyogre. And also that shiny Rayquaza that appears in the Hoopa movie.

How did ik someone like this would come along

 

Spoiler

hLwFM3i.png

 

Prob the main reason I started off with this

20 hours ago, awkways said:

not saying this is the main reason or anything

Think you might be looking little too deep into my comment, and the anime for that matter. Again, thanks for your interpreted anime history, I'm sure you googled really hard for those examples, but really none of the things you just pointed out contradict that they could be the same legendary, they could just as easily be in a diff universe/timeline since they're all diff stories (that's the obvious explanation that most people would come to understand). Again the main point is that the legendaries we have are one of a kind. The same way there's only 1 ash ketchum - although he might act differently in certain story lines. I'm positive that you could even argue this fact if you google long enough, but they're never gonna be in the same place at the same time. I'm sure that there's a bunch of forums that you can debate the topic further on if you wanna get all technical about what pokemon gave the wrong look at what time or whatever, but it doesn't change the fact that you never saw 2 mewtwos fighting one another - that's for a good reason, they're unique 'mons. No group of scientists ever saw mewtwo break down their lab and turn evil then said "hey yea lets do that again - exactly the same way - nvm lets do it 10x more".

 

Seeing literally thousands of these legendaries at once (notice how never even 2 are in the same shot in your examples) breaks from the "original" pokemon experience pretty hard. It would likely ruin it instead. An easier solution is to make them an event or just to not include them at all. I can't speak for staff but I'm sure that's not the main reason they're not available to keep - I'm sure that has something to do with competitive play or PVE.

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9 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Also, the whole 1 of each legendary has been proven false on multiple occasions

The main problem is that the Anime of Pokémon isn't related with the main games. So maybe in the main games there's only 1 Rayquaza, 1 Mewtwo, etc.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, awkways said:

Seeing literally thousands of these legendaries at once (notice how never even 2 are in the same shot in your examples) breaks from the "original" pokemon experience pretty hard. It would likely ruin it instead. An easier solution is to make them an event or just to not include them at all. I can't speak for staff but I'm sure that's not the main reason they're not available to keep - I'm sure that has something to do with competitive play or PVE.

I already mentioned multiple Latias, and no it wouldn't ruin gameplay. Besides, this game is FAR from the original.

-Adjusted AI

-Ridiculously Adjusted Shiny Rate

- Inability to get Legendaries currently because they'd "break the game"

 

You(and the devs) need to learn that allowing everyone the opportunity to catch the legendaries won't be the end of the world.

 

 

**Also if I'm to go by the "nerd" stereotype, technically this game is illegal since it uses ROMs which are illegal to obtain and I'm surprised the Nintendo Ninjas haven't shut this game down like they did all the other games.

Edited by BoltBlades12

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Posted (edited)

I still see the only argument most people don't want legendaries is because they are "overpowered". I know the competitive scene is supposed to be different in here, but saying they are op seems wrong.

 

Let's take one,just one, OU pokemon, volcarona for this, volcarona alone would destroy 90% of the would be available "overpowered" legendaries:

 

Mew, celebi, suicune, Raikou ,latios, latias, virizion, coballion, (maybe) Terrakion cause non stab giga drain apparently does 90% all the time, all of the lake guardians, Deoxys if it has a quiver dance up already, kyurem if it's nor physical choice band, darkrai, Palkia does nothing with hydro pump to it after one quiver dance, dialga unless it's physical, Regice, registeel, regigigas.

 

And that's just one OU pokemon. As for people in game calling Landorus too "overcentralizing" it does nothing to milotic and has many other checks.

I'm not saying there should be legendaries, but saying that they are too overpowered is kinda not the way it goes.

 

Edit: Not mentioning any gen 6+ legendaries/mythicals cause I said " would be" available legendaries. So no fairy deer, Yveltal or the primals.

Edit2: Forgot about my bois the regis, Regigigas for ubers 2019!

Edited by Arielle
minor grammar checks

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19 minutes ago, Arielle said:

I still see the only argument most people don't want legendaries is because they are "overpowered". I know the competitive scene is supposed to be different in here, but saying they are op seems wrong.

 

Let's take one,just one, OU pokemon, volcarona for this, volcarona alone would destroy 90% of the would be available "overpowered" legendaries:

 

Mew, celebi, suicune, Raikou ,latios, latias, virizion, coballion, (maybe) Terrakion cause non stab giga drain apparently does 90% all the time, all of the lake guardians, Deoxys if it has a quiver dance up already, kyurem if it's nor physical choice band, darkrai, Palkia does nothing with hydro pump to it after one quiver dance, dialga unless it's physical, Regice, registeel, regigigas.

 

And that's just one OU pokemon. As for people in game calling Landorus too "overcentralizing" it does nothing to milotic and has many other checks.

I'm not saying there should be legendaries, but saying that they are too overpowered is kinda not the way it goes.

 

Edit: Not mentioning any gen 6+ legendaries/mythicals cause I said " would be" available legendaries. So no fairy deer, Yveltal or the primals.

Edit2: Forgot about my bois the regis, Regigigas for ubers 2019!

To add on to that, there's already about 52 legendaries in existence, so the "legendary" title has really lost its special-ness and isn't as significant as it was back when the only legendaries were the 3 birds, Mewtwo, and Mew. Trying to maintain that "special-ness" by not allowing us full access to the legendaries ain't gonna cut it.

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In PVP legendaries will only be overpowered depending on the legendary and the context they are in. On one hand, stuff like Zekrom, Mewtwo, Rayquaza and Deoxys will shatter the metagame no matter what and will likely remain unimplemented outside of their little events (No idea if Deoxys will get one, it's just an example), while stuff like Regirock could be added right now and it'd drop to LC the moment the novelty wears off. Stuff like Latios or Keldeo however would require that we introduce other legendaries or Hidden Ability mons before them, due to the fact that without them otherwise they'd move straight up to Ubers and we'd have to wait for the introduction of these other legendaries for them to have a chance at dropping again.

Like I said before legendaries would likely be overpowered in PVE and their implementation needs to be adjusted to avoid that scenario since devs want to keep PVE challenging.  Otherwise you get a Latias at level 40 in Hoenn? The second your level cap goes above 40 in Kanto you sweep everything in your path with little opposition.

 

Anyways the devs already made their decision, you'll get your legendaries Soon(tm) when we get dungeons, and stuff like Mewtwo and Zekrom will likely remain unavailable outside of these niche instances.

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