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KmiKzee

The real problem of PokeMMO's economy.

Please, complete this little poll.  

74 members have voted

  1. 1. Who is responsible of lowering item's prices in PokeMMO?

    • People that lower prices.
      59
    • People who sell stacks of 99.
      15


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11 minutes ago, ApacheHelicopter said:

Tbh the current economy is bad af and kind of irrelevant since multi boxing is kind of authorized.

 

Regarding the GTL, from my previous mmo experiences... the way games used to deal with that kind of behaviour is adding a queue when you sell an item. From 5 up to 15 minutes. Sellers think twice before selling an item. Insta dropping the price by 1$ or more is impossible cuz the price should change everytime.

Here you have, time restriction.

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Posted (edited)
14 minutes ago, KmiKzee said:

I understand your point of view, but I thing you are wrong.

 

First, I haven't made this post because of my items weren't selling well. I am intelligent enough to know when I have to sell my items and when I have to wait, but think in this: the solution you told, it's a personal solution for me, for you and for people who are reading this. It isn't a global solution. As I have told, we live in a world that everyone wants to earn much as he can, and because of that, lot of people lower prices, lots of people farm items with leppa berries, and lots of new players don't know how to earn money to build their first PvP team or buy some cosmetics. It's something stupid to expect all players not to lower prices or wait to sell their items, that is imposibble.

 

Don't be in a fantasy world, don't expect that all the community in PokeMMO will be united and will rise prices or wait to sell their items to not lower them. We can't do that in real life, I don't think we will do that in a game that don't have consequences in real life.

 

Kmkzee

I was a new player at a point and so were many and they we are what we are now. Dont expect the game to be casual friendly, cause it never was, here its a grind fest like in runescape, except with less interesting methods.

You are the one living in a fantasy world thinking GTL or any market isnt a competitive environment. 

 

Ofc everyone is greedy for their own reasons, but then again, the game is not as hard as you guys are making it look like, you just need time and effort, and heck you can make a pvp team with 1.5m + 400-500k in items, so in order to become a comp player you dont even need that much effort. For cosmetics, if you are tefering to the OG ones, you better either start buying rp or start running alts to farm berries cause you wont really find another efficient method.

 

Edited by razimove
Typos

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Posted (edited)
9 minutes ago, razimove said:

I was a new player at a point and so were many and they we are what we are now. Dont expect the game to be casual friendly, cause it never was, here its a grind fest like in runescape, except with less interesting methods.

You are the one living in a fantasy world thinking GTL or any market isnt a competitive environment. 

 

Ofc every is greedy for their own reasons, but then again, the game is not as hard as you guys are making it look like, you just need time and effort, and heck you can make a pvp team with 1.5m + 400-500k in items.

 

I don't know if you are kidding me or what. I invite you to read the entire post and read all the times I defended the competitive sistem in this economy. 

I have been playing this game for 6 years, so I know how it's economy works. Do not treat me like an idiot or noob because I am not. Instead of that, go to read the entire post and think a solution for this problem.

 

Kmikzee 

Edited by KmiKzee
Mistake

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4 minutes ago, KmiKzee said:

I don't know if you are kidding me or what. I invite you to read the entire post and read all the times I defended the competitive sistem in this economy. 

I have been playing this game for 6 years, so I know how it's economy works. Do not treat me like an idiot or noob because I am not. Instead of that, go to read the entire post and think a solution for this problem.

 

Kmikzee 

I dont want to insult cause I dont see a need for that, but you are spot on my treatment.

 

 Im not saying you didnt defend, what I said is, dont use the noob 'clause' as an excuse as its not relevant, everyone can farm berries and build a money flow from that.

 

Thr solution? Compete with them for prices. Either the supply is big enough that the market crashes down, or its not that big and things remain somewhat stable. Supply and demand control things. The biggest problem that the server had, was that they were totally nkt prepared for a community as big as the chinese one, to join the server, and it made a dent in the economy. How to fix it currently? There isnt a way, there are too many players with billions, not millions, out there, that can control any market they want. The economy would need a soft reset and a total rework, if it was to ever be manually fixed. If not just let time do his job and balance things out passively.

 

If now you want to discuss about people lowering prices by 1 just to get ahead, they arwnt that relevant, they will sell faster but yours will sell too, if not in 1 hour, maybe in 2 hours.

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8 minutes ago, razimove said:

I dont want to insult cause I dont see a need for that, but you are spot on my treatment.

 

 Im not saying you didnt defend, what I said is, dont use the noob 'clause' as an excuse as its not relevant, everyone can farm berries and build a money flow from that.

 

Thr solution? Compete with them for prices. Either the supply is big enough that the market crashes down, or its not that big and things remain somewhat stable. Supply and demand control things. The biggest problem that the server had, was that they were totally nkt prepared for a community as big as the chinese one, to join the server, and it made a dent in the economy. How to fix it currently? There isnt a way, there are too many players with billions, not millions, out there, that can control any market they want. The economy would need a soft reset and a total rework, if it was to ever be manually fixed. If not just let time do his job and balance things out passively.

 

If now you want to discuss about people lowering prices by 1 just to get ahead, they arwnt that relevant, they will sell faster but yours will sell too, if not in 1 hour, maybe in 2 hours.

First, you said: "You are the one living in a fantasy world thinking GTL or any market isnt a competitive environment" when I was defending that competitive market previously.

Second, if your problem was I said something about the "noob clause" you are not making focus on the principal idea of that comment. I told that don't expect a united community when we have players from different countries and different points of view.

Third, if your solution is don't do anything, okay it can be a solution. I have posted a solution and you have posted a solution, are not the same? Can't find the problem. This post wasn't created to discuss wich solution is worse than other. This was created for admins, to have one post that collect a lot of solutions for a real problem. And, if you think that I want to "discuss about people lowering prices by 1 just to get ahead", please go to the top of this post and read it again.

 

Kmikzee

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4 minutes ago, KmiKzee said:

First, you said: "You are the one living in a fantasy world thinking GTL or any market isnt a competitive environment" when I was defending that competitive market previously.

Second, if your problem was I said something about the "noob clause" you are not making focus on the principal idea of that comment. I told that don't expect a united community when we have players from different countries and different points of view.

Third, if your solution is don't do anything, okay it can be a solution. I have posted a solution and you have posted a solution, are not the same? Can't find the problem. This post wasn't created to discuss wich solution is worse than other. This was created for admins, to have one post that collect a lot of solutions for a real problem. And, if you think that I want to "discuss about people lowering prices by 1 just to get ahead", please go to the top of this post and read it again.

 

Kmikzee

The thing is the whole economy is f*ck*d up man. There's already plenty subjects about it. It's not only about the GTL.  Razimove is quite right, there are people you can't even imagine their fortune. If they want to wtfpwn the GTL, they absolutly can.

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Just now, Flavawhat said:

i think as a mayor @Bestfriends needs to step it up and fix this economy situation once and for all.

Inspiring entrepreneurs are already fixing the economy. No need for any intervention.

 

Thank you to all the Breeders, EV Trainers, and Levelers! You did contribute in being human money sinks.

 

Now this is not a perfect solution, but they did play a significant role and we should not mitigate that.

 

I am going to tag every entrepreneur from the first two pages of the Trade Corner (as of 5/2/19) so you will know who to thank for helping the economy: @Funkykong @razimove @Beanlee @Hythalius @DrButler @Quakkz @LordCyber @mago1993 @Zigh @Ghostfaze0 @DrayoWolf @HughJackmon @Branni @KawaiiRem @Esranius @Diimiitrii

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23 minutes ago, Bestfriends said:

Inspiring entrepreneurs are already fixing the economy. No need for any intervention.

 

Thank you to all the Breeders, EV Trainers, and Levelers! You did contribute in being human money sinks.

 

Now this is not a perfect solution, but they did play a significant role and we should not mitigate that.

 

I am going to tag every entrepreneur from the first two pages of the Trade Corner (as of 5/2/19) so you will know who to thank for helping the economy: @Funkykong @razimove @Beanlee @Hythalius @DrButler @Quakkz @LordCyber @mago1993 @Zigh @Ghostfaze0 @DrayoWolf @HughJackmon @Branni @KawaiiRem @Esranius @Diimiitrii

Can you explain why are they fixing the economy?

 

Kmikzee

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, KmiKzee said:

Can you explain why are they fixing the economy?

 

Kmikzee

I feel like grabbing a whiteboard here, but on the internet, you don't have that luxury.

 

So, I am going to make do and explain here the basics of services and the people beyond this concept:

 

1. Service Providers (The Entrepreneurs)

2. The Customers (Players with about +1 million PokeYen)

 

Player that needs a service ->Pays the-> Service Provider

 

Rich players often times would like to relax in Vermillion and hate the idea of stress, so we can use this business model to our advantage. The rich stay rich and the poor can start building their wealth. It is a beautiful concept. For anyone interested in starting up a service, then I would advise you to watch the Starting Up a Service on PokeMMO in 2019 video.

 

And the cycle continues.

---------------------------------------------------------

51 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

It should be required to have to present the forum mods proof that you have college credit for Econ 1 at least to make a topic about "the economy" tbh.

 

Everyone should be able to voice their concerns about the economy, but if I had to give any advice for people that want to comment on the economy in general, then I would encourage you to watch some of Milton Friedman's work. He does great work and as the Mayor of PokeMMO, I use his economic philosophy as a role model.

 

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited by Bestfriends
clarification

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I think the real problem is some have money and some don't.

 

We need to just institute socialism and everyone can have a bit of everything for free whenever they want it, because they deserve it.

 

/s

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21 minutes ago, EssDeeCee said:

I think the real problem is some have money and some don't.

 

We need to just institute socialism and everyone can have a bit of everything for free whenever they want it, because they deserve it.

 

/s

I know that this is a troll post, but for anyone who is really interested in this economic philosophy, then let me tell you why socialism is counterproductive and dangerous.

 

Socialism rewards laziness, plan and simple. I can go to bar, grab a beer, go back home and get a free paycheck for contributing absolutely nothing to our economic system. Let's go deeper in this hole shall we, the bar owner would no longer have the drive to leave his bar open, so he closes it and goes fishing. In short, businesses would close and we are worse off as a society.

 

Now you may say, "but Bestfriends, listen to AOC man, she is my hero!" I rarely ever insult politicians in a forums statement, but this has to be said. Alexandria Orasio-Cortez is completely incompetent when it comes down to the economy and overall policy. Scaring away Amazon from your own district is the great way to hurt the very people that voted her into office robbing them of job openings. Let's not mention the Green New Deal, that is another can of worms and it is not pertinent to this discussion.

 

I can either do the AOC tactic which is me yelling at the rich players and trying to make life rough for them because of their large money stacks (man I know some people on the forums that could be very angry at me for employing this tactic) or promote PokeMMO Capitalism which lifts a lot of players out of the poverty line and into the Middle Class (and almost everyone is satisfied). Capitalism is not perfect, but there is a high ratio of people that are being lifted out of poverty every day. Milton Friedman is the man to listen to if you want to understand how macroeconomics works. I've heard of people on PokeMMO that have been lifted out of the poverty line just for doing services for people and they go into other ways of making a living on PokeMMO (and some of them become wealthy enough to hire others). This cycle is beautiful to watch in action.

 

Spoiler

I am in a teaching mood today.

 

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I love these posts, they always get a little needlessly heated, offer no viable solutions and above all you can almost bet there will be 1 or more posts a week talking about the economy.

 

I read these in hopes that someone is creative enough to find the solution to fix our 'problem' but I have yet to see a solution that I believe could actually work.

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55 minutes ago, SirDusty said:

I love these posts, they always get a little needlessly heated, offer no viable solutions and above all you can almost bet there will be 1 or more posts a week talking about the economy.

 

I read these in hopes that someone is creative enough to find the solution to fix our 'problem' but I have yet to see a solution that I believe could actually work.

Limit berry farming to 1 account. If a player have active berry plants in his one account he can't have in his other until those berry plants are harvested. Yeh they might use another gmail but in most cases their IP will stay the same so you can see who will be abusing these conditions. / Remove the npc that buys berries as a whole and see how that affects things after a while. If we don't try I guess we'll never know.

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Esta claro gente, no lo piensen mucho, ni debatan mucho. Toda la comunidad de PokeMMO latinoamericana sabe que es culpa de Walerito.

 

This clear people, do not think much, or debate much. The entire Latin American PokeMMO community knows that it is Walerito's fault.

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Posted (edited)

I think if anyone does have concerns to reduce the yen that the "upper class" has in PokeMMO, godforbid prices of static items should not be increased. This is regressive economic policy that ends up harming those with less money moreso than it does to harm those with more. I think better solutions is to nerf berries to some degree that @Goku said above, mess with the limited cosmetics a bit to not be limited because people at the top just hold onto them to hoard them, and maybe make some 1 mil+ yen cosmetics (a crown, royal cape, etc?) that act as pretty big money sinks. There was a good suggestion on here a while ago suggesting to put more attention into the Secret Base system to make them a more attractive money sink.

Edited by Raichu4u

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19 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

I think if anyone does have concerns to reduce the yen that the "upper class" has in PokeMMO, godforbid prices of static items should not be increased. This is regressive economic policy that ends up harming those with less money moreso than it does to harm those with more. I think better solutions is to nerf berries to some degree that @Goku said above, mess with the limited cosmetics a bit to not be limited because people at the top just hold onto them to hoard them, and maybe make some 1 mil+ yen cosmetics (a crown, royal cape, etc?) that act as pretty big money sinks. There was a good suggestion on here a while ago suggesting to put more attention into the Secret Base system to make them a more attractive money sink.

The secret base suggestion is a cool idea. On the limited vanity not so much because you have to remember if a vanity is sold as a limited item it is sold with a guarantee that it will never be of any means available to obtain in game again. Therefore people purchase a lot of them with rp as an investment and if developers were to make them not limited or available again they will lose all their credibility.

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5 hours ago, Christian2730s said:

Esta claro gente, no lo piensen mucho, ni debatan mucho. Toda la comunidad de PokeMMO latinoamericana sabe que es culpa de Walerito.

 

This clear people, do not think much, or debate much. The entire Latin American PokeMMO community knows that it is Walerito's fault.

Damn that kid is so relevant, that nobody knows or cares about him. You should take your time and research about him here on the forum crying 24/7.

 

6 hours ago, SirDusty said:

offer no viable solutions

Sadly I think we already sunk too deep due to the berry spam. Only way to fix economy currently is to implement some new burn 'cash' method, even by introducing a new box like pvp mystery box or something, or something even more passive, and nerf berries to the ground to 0$ when sold to npcs to incentive GTL, new cash influx from selling to npcs is the problem as it generates inflaction, trading between players would help the market to heal itself overtime.

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14 hours ago, Bestfriends said:

I feel like grabbing a whiteboard here, but on the internet, you don't have that luxury.

 

So, I am going to make do and explain here the basics of services and the people beyond this concept:

 

1. Service Providers (The Entrepreneurs)

2. The Customers (Players with about +1 million PokeYen)

 

Player that needs a service ->Pays the-> Service Provider

 

Rich players often times would like to relax in Vermillion and hate the idea of stress, so we can use this business model to our advantage. The rich stay rich and the poor can start building their wealth. It is a beautiful concept. For anyone interested in starting up a service, then I would advise you to watch the Starting Up a Service on PokeMMO in 2019 video.

 

And the cycle continues.

---------------------------------------------------------

 

Everyone should be able to voice their concerns about the economy, but if I had to give any advice for people that want to comment on the economy in general, then I would encourage you to watch some of Milton Friedman's work. He does great work and as the Mayor of PokeMMO, I use his economic philosophy as a role model.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

 

cool man now can you explain how this helps the economy regarding the massive influx of yen due to berry farming? it isn't, right? 

 

they will just do it until they realize berry farming has a higher profite/time ratio

 

berry farming is the problem here. it is like everyone can have its own money printing machine and guess what IT'S ALLOWED HERE

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I think that there is a big problem with gold nugget farm. They are very easy to farm, and they are sold to NPC's, and that generates inflation. This is one of the principal way to earn money fast an well, and is known by everyone. Maybe a nerf in it's price on NPC's or a nerf in it's appearance rate could help to decrease inflation, it won't stop it, but it will help a lot.

 

@Bestfriends I read what you have posted before, and I understand it. That economic politics are working sensational in China (and personally I really like free market politics), but maybe just an intervention in this economy could help. Free market politics are one of the simplest, you don't have to do anything, the law of supply and demand will fix everything and that is true. But come on, I am not the only person that have posted something about the ecconomy in PokeMMO here, I am not the only one that want an intervention here and I am not the only one that suffer when prices are lowering.

 

This was my last comment here, just think about it.

 

Kmikzee

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How would anyone feel about revamping the berry system to be much more passive, need much less attention (in the form of watering), take more time, but yield much less yen?

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2 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

How would anyone feel about revamping the berry system to be much more passive, need much less attention (in the form of watering), take more time, but yield much less yen?

You can just reduce their NPC price if they produce too much yen, besides, they're already passive enough imo.

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50 minutes ago, Dazuzi said:

You can just reduce their NPC price if they produce too much yen, besides, they're already passive enough imo.

They did that already, didnt fix the money flow still, just nerf it to 0$ to force them to interact player:player, not player:npc.

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