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[PSL XI] PokeMMO Super League Season 11 General Thread

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so i have been thinking of the psl and how to make it good. i have come to the conclusion we have not got the auction and manager selection right. my solution is to change the psl manager selection and auction system to use "real" money paid for by the managers. managers will not get any money from the psl but personally pay for their team. at the end if they win the manager will get the entire pot and then pay for the various players win bonuses and such. players sign up for a auction like normal and the managers bid on players publicly on a thread for players. thinking payments in two parts, one at the beginning before it starts and one once psl ends. with obvious checks and balances written in for if a player say takes their check and runs or the manager doesnt want to pay people what they are due at the end. i think with our anti scamming rules this could work.

 

what some of you may be asking is why? what does this do thats better? why do we need this? 

 

well it literally raises the stakes. a lot of bad behavior we have seen over the years would occur less often if that pot of gold at the end of the tunnel disappeared when they behaved badly. and managers will care a whole fucking lot when they are personally bankrolling their team and in the hole for millions unless they win that 200mil pot. and a horrible manager who cant manage a team isnt going to manage often if they are loosing a fortune every season. 

 

furthermore this solves the participation issues we have. how many teams? how many managers? let the market decide. if you as a manager feel like their are enough talented free agents that you will risk your own money on them to win it on then great. if you dont feel like you stand a chance then you arent going to make that bet. instead of artificially putting a limit on the managers or players, let as many can exist exist. 

 

what do you think? 

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47 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

so i have been thinking of the psl and how to make it good.

nice, let's give this a read

48 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

my solution is to change the psl manager selection and auction system to use "real" money paid for by the managers

b-but isn't RMT forbidden mate?

49 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

managers will not get any money from the psl but personally pay for their team. at the end if they win the manager will get the entire pot and then pay for the various players win bonuses and such

i don't see how this makes psl good, it doesn't make sense but i'ma keep reading anyway

50 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

what some of you may be asking is why? what does this do thats better? why do we need this? 

 

well it literally raises the stakes. a lot of bad behavior we have seen over the years would occur less often if that pot of gold at the end of the tunnel disappeared when they behaved badly. and managers will care a whole fucking lot when they are personally bankrolling their team and in the hole for millions unless they win that 200mil pot. and a horrible manager who cant manage a team isnt going to manage often if they are loosing a fortune every season. 

 

furthermore this solves the participation issues we have. how many teams? how many managers? let the market decide. if you as a manager feel like their are enough talented free agents that you will risk your own money on them to win it on then great. if you dont feel like you stand a chance then you arent going to make that bet. instead of artificially putting a limit on the managers or players, let as many can exist exist. 

 

what do you think? 

seems kinda complicated and undoable tbh

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this is based on my presumption that the root of the problems of the psl is lack of commitment. people do not care enough. my solution is to make a system that closer emulates real sports leagues run off money as money is a good incentive. in the psl you only make money if you win and i want to give people more incentive to play hard and win even if they think their team might or probably will loose. no one has fun when the contestants arent trying and giving it their all. 

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Tbh I felt like players cared more this season. Hardly any activity decisions. 

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4 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Tbh I felt like players cared more this season. Hardly any activity decisions. 

this is just this weeks matches and limited to the first half but "im not too busy to play if i care but otherwise cant be fucked" and guy just not showing up on time. not the worst of the worst by any stretch of imagination, but playoff week 1 and it i dont see the hype. also not trying to make enemies or call people out, this is a symptom not the root. what im saying is, reach for the stars, not "few activity decisions". 

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5 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

this is just this weeks matches and limited to the first half but "im not too busy to play if i care but otherwise cant be fucked" and guy just not showing up on time. not the worst of the worst by any stretch of imagination, but playoff week 1 and it i dont see the hype. also not trying to make enemies or call people out, this is a symptom not the root. what im saying is, reach for the stars, not "few activity decisions". 

Horrible examples. Julian is in the losers bracket so the game simply doesn’t matter. Jj ended up playing his match. Your entire idea comes from a well meaning place but is a poor solution to minimalistic problems 

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1 hour ago, Gunthug said:

Horrible examples.

ok but im limiting my search parameters and trying to not bring up old drama.

 

1 hour ago, Gunthug said:

Julian is in the losers bracket so the game simply doesn’t matter.

every game matters. 

 

time to go to work more later ja na

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44 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

ok but im limiting my search parameters and trying to not bring up old drama.

 

every game matters. 

 

time to go to work more later ja na

I think you’re just wrong - there haven’t been many activity decisions this season, especially not impactful ones. The one that almost had an impact 1. Was solved with an extension and 2. Ended up not mattering (both teams missed playoffs lol)

 

You attempt to liken this to real sports but ignore the fact that in real sports, not every game matters. That’s just reality. I’m baseball there are 162 games, some of which are so pointless that position players are brought in to pitch. At a certain point in the season it becomes less about winning and more about showcasing future talent, and that’s with real money on the line. In other, shorter season sports, it can actually be advantageous to lose. Look at the 16 game NFL, where near the end of the season teams will race to the bottom for the #1 draft pick the following season. 

 

My point is, we shouldn’t try to make every game matter. The important thing is that the games that SHOULD matter, do. This means critical matchups between contenders during the season, and playoff matchups. If there has been any waning in interest for PSL, that comes from a general decline in interest for this game as a whole - significantly from the player base that tends to make up the core of psl, which slants towards the old guard. 

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every game matters and you owe it to yourself, your team mates, and your opponents to treat every game like it matters. if you dont understand and agree then you are wrong. 

 

justifying flaws with other flaws is a flawed argument. the world of sports is not perfect. the players however tend to understand point one "the spirit of competition". 

 

every game matters already, but many players share your mind set. potential solution is a potential solution and you're argument of "imo waning interest in game dont do anything" is defeatism, and sounds a lot like admitting their is actually a problem. instead of doing nothing why dont we do something? give me a better idea or get out of the way man ya know? 

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23 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

every game matters and you owe it to yourself, your team mates, and your opponents to treat every game like it matters. if you dont understand and agree then you are wrong. 

 

justifying flaws with other flaws is a flawed argument. the world of sports is not perfect. the players however tend to understand point one "the spirit of competition". 

 

every game matters already, but many players share your mind set. potential solution is a potential solution and you're argument of "imo waning interest in game dont do anything" is defeatism, and sounds a lot like admitting their is actually a problem. instead of doing nothing why dont we do something? give me a better idea or get out of the way man ya know? 

I'm not justifying flaws with other flaws, I'm holding you to your own stated standard:  "my solution is to make a system that closer emulates real sports leagues." My point was, it doesn't matter whether you "raise the stakes" or not (which, by the way, raising the stakes for managers won't necessarily trickle down to the players lol) - even in leagues where the stakes are very real and very high, the amount of effort put into a given game/match/whatever generally matches up with how "important" said game/match is. There are obviously exceptions, some baseball players will give 150% down by 15 runs in the 9th inning. But generally, you can't fight human nature, and opportunity cost is a thing. In PSL for example, giving your all for a relatively meaningless game (let's say, week 7 when your team has already clinched playoffs) could mean blowing a teambuild that could have been used more effectively in playoffs.

 

Also, my point w/waning interest in game wasn't that we shouldn't do anything, but that maybe the impetus to change something doesn't fall with us. Next PSL coming out sometime soon after Sinnoh will probably help, for example.

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"we cant fight human nature" is wrong. the "fear of other" is human nature and yet we live our lives surrounded by millions of people we dont know and it is rare to run into someone we do know randomly going about our business. violence, the fight in fight or flight is human nature. and yet few people every seriously injure or kill another human being. yes their are exceptions, but they are exceptions not the rule. 

 

and if you break down your argument it's "this thing you want is similar to this other thing with has flaws". the flaws you mentioned are

"baseball has ridiculous amounts of games where you get so many losses that you cant possibly win" 

and

"nfl draft mechanics give incentive to loose"

 baseball flaw can be avoided by not having 162 games in a season. nfl flaw can be avoided by not having draft picks. honestly the bigger flaw would be a large team of rich players working together to fund a team that can afford to buy literally all of the bets players. this can be countered with a team spending cap, but in the first season or two, accurately estimating what that cap should be is impossible. we need numbers first. 

 

and as for the game dying/psl dying/commuity dying argument. it is not a argument just a statement. "this is how it is" - gunthug. and while i can get behind the old guard dying out is a thing, their is a lot of new players too and its somewhat hard to get numbers unless staff wants to jump in and give us numbers. the game is definitely more fragmented these days with lots of various language mini community's, and does the sum come up to one old community? idk and you dont know either. 

 

but like, a team of jajas looking at the psl might think "too much work for the language barrier". but if they raise the money and fund a team their biligual guy can hire the jajas and talk to the host and get shit done. and maybe that team of jajas will be the next aw who will fuck us all in the ass and teach us a thing or two. 

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2 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

"we cant fight human nature" is wrong. the "fear of other" is human nature and yet we live our lives surrounded by millions of people we dont know and it is rare to run into someone we do know randomly going about our business. violence, the fight in fight or flight is human nature. and yet few people every seriously injure or kill another human being. yes their are exceptions, but they are exceptions not the rule. 

will keep responses short because no one wants to read walls of texts.

 

You cannot force people to give 100% effort each game, and too much effort to do so could actually be detrimental. The casual aspect of PSL - free to enter, schedule 1 match a week is the entry barrier - appeals to a ton of participants

 

2 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

 

and if you break down your argument it's "this thing you want is similar to this other thing with has flaws". the flaws you mentioned are

"baseball has ridiculous amounts of games where you get so many losses that you cant possibly win" 

and

"nfl draft mechanics give incentive to loose"

strawman, not worth responding to.

 

2 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

 baseball flaw can be avoided by not having 162 games in a season. nfl flaw can be avoided by not having draft picks. honestly the bigger flaw would be a large team of rich players working together to fund a team that can afford to buy literally all of the bets players. this can be countered with a team spending cap, but in the first season or two, accurately estimating what that cap should be is impossible. we need numbers first. 

so now you're proposing ways to fix some of the biggest and most successful sports leagues in the world. Do they need fixing? Does PSL?

2 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

 

and as for the game dying/psl dying/commuity dying argument. it is not a argument just a statement. "this is how it is" - gunthug. and while i can get behind the old guard dying out is a thing, their is a lot of new players too and its somewhat hard to get numbers unless staff wants to jump in and give us numbers. the game is definitely more fragmented these days with lots of various language mini community's, and does the sum come up to one old community? idk and you dont know either. 

I didn't even say the PSL was losing interest, i said IF it's losing interest, it could be because of x. Why don't you prove first that the PSL needs drastic changes? Burden of proof is on you, and you certainly have done that so far

2 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

 

but like, a team of jajas looking at the psl might think "too much work for the language barrier". but if they raise the money and fund a team their biligual guy can hire the jajas and talk to the host and get shit done. and maybe that team of jajas will be the next aw who will fuck us all in the ass and teach us a thing or two. 

this can literally happen w/the current system

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i am arguing that human nature can be fought and it is not a lost cause. and how is this detrimental to the player? you sign up. if a team thinks youre good enough they hire you and you get paid to play, and if your team wins you get a bonus. even if your team is likely to loose, you have more monetary incentive to win matches through two things. first is increasing rep to increase bids next seasons. second is to prevent penalty like getting reduced pay for not showing up to matches. 

 

5 hours ago, Gunthug said:

strawman, not worth responding to.

what it is, is accurate.

 

5 hours ago, Gunthug said:

strawman, not worth responding to.

sounds a lot like "too big to fail" logic there. a system that incentives loosing seems like a flaw to me. and psl, nfl, ect are not perfect. few things are and improvement is a good thing.  stop asking open ended questions to confuse the jury mr lawyer man. make a argument.

6 hours ago, Gunthug said:

Why don't you prove first that the PSL needs drastic changes? Burden of proof is on you, and you certainly have done that so far

DsEcLYVWoAAzlSU.jpg

 

did you just say i proved my point? wot

6 hours ago, Gunthug said:

this can literally happen w/the current system

what seems more of a barrier to entry? one person knowing english or a entire team knowing english? lets be real we arent and cant get everything in the psl translated into every language. it IS a barrier to entry and when i turn on global i see a lot less english then chinese or spanish. under my proposed system a biligual manager from say a spanish community could raise funds and hire players from his community for the psl. for them, they would have a season with manager who speaks their language and can help with translations communicating. the barrier for the manager is only money which anyone can get. and while hiring this player season one would be an advantage for this theoretical spanish manager as he knows this unknown talent, the next season everyone knows. and next season the player who does not speak english already has one psl under their belt and would theoretically be in a better position to join up understanding how this works not knowing which manager they will get. and who knows? maybe two or more managers will come out of these community we dont talk enough to and their will be competition for these new players. 

 

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Posted (edited)

Just put auction back, and maybe give more prizes for individual achievements (not only for the best of each tier). With a prize pool similar to the current one, this shouldnt be an issue

Edited by Zigh
Typo

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Can we just take a moment to appreciate that the team with the worst roster, most dead players, and most drama is in the finals and just knocked the best team this season?

 

Kekleon's we made it. 

 

@Munya you may now close this thread. Ty.

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