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All the balance changes to Pokemon in Pokemmo?


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I notice in the update logs that they sometimes balance the game themselves. I was wondering maybe anyone knows a place where I can see these changes. The recent one I saw was in the 08/02/2019 update:

 

  • Dugtrio's Attack has been reduced from 100 to 80
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Generally the game follows everything from generation 7 except a few things. From the top of my head these things are:

  • Fairy typings doesn't exist yet
  • Steel still resists dark and ghost
  • Gengar doesn't have Cursed Body but Levitate still
  • Dugtrio has 80 attack
  • Outrage still has 90 power
  • Hidden Abilities aren't available yet
  • Knock Off doesn't have 65 base power

Besides this everything has generation 7 base stats etc., both Pokemon and Moves. We also have stuff like Drought on Torkoal and Drizzle on Pelipper. I might have missed a couple things but honestly there is no real way to keep track of everything besides looking through the update logs.

Edited by TheChampionMike
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4 minutes ago, TheChampionMike said:

Besides this everything has generation 7 base stats etc., both Pokemon and Moves. We also have stuff like Drought on Torkoal and Drizzle on Pelipper. I might have missed a couple things but honestly there is no real way to keep track of everything besides looking through the update logs.

things like outrage dont even make it to the logs. only changes they make retroactively not changes they planed to just leave out. 

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1 hour ago, TheChampionMike said:

Generally the game follows everything from generation 7 except a few things. From the top of my head these things are:

  • Fairy typings doesn't exist yet
  • Steel still resists dark and ghost
  • Gengar doesn't have Cursed Body but Levitate still
  • Dugtrio has 80 attack
  • Outrage still has 90 power
  • Hidden Abilities aren't available yet
  • Knock Off doesn't have 65 base power

Besides this everything has generation 7 base stats etc., both Pokemon and Moves. We also have stuff like Drought on Torkoal and Drizzle on Pelipper. I might have missed a couple things but honestly there is no real way to keep track of everything besides looking through the update logs.

You could potentially add that hydragon can't learn draco meteor here but the dex allready has that type of info

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Thanks for the replies ~~~ Well base on your replies, I guess there wasn't that many changes. I thought that maybe in MMO some of the weaker Pokemon became stronger and viable for competitive play. I guess it's still the same old OU, UU and PU =(

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4 hours ago, BrokenKatana said:

Thanks for the replies ~~~ Well base on your replies, I guess there wasn't that many changes. I thought that maybe in MMO some of the weaker Pokemon became stronger and viable for competitive play. I guess it's still the same old OU, UU and PU =(

Many Pokemons are much more viable because we can't use Legendaries and Megas, which is amazing imo. Many Hidden Abilities are also very strong, not having them keeps many things in control too.

Pokemmo also runs the new stats introduced in S/M.

But no, no random buffs to the very week mons.

 

Does anyone know why steel still resists dark and ghost?

 

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7 hours ago, BrokenKatana said:

Thanks for the replies ~~~ Well base on your replies, I guess there wasn't that many changes. I thought that maybe in MMO some of the weaker Pokemon became stronger and viable for competitive play. I guess it's still the same old OU, UU and PU =(

Any changes that exist are all within the Canon, meaning that they are how something worked at some point in time in the official games, for instance Outrage being 90 BP existed at some point in time in the main games (Games prior to gen 4), same as Dugtrio's attack stat (Games prior to gen 7), even if it's not how they worked in the latest versions (USUM).

The closest thing to "Custom" and something that people haven't mentioned here is the fact that Hydreigon cannot learn Draco Meteor, with the reasoning that (correct me if I am wrong) that it would likely be too strong for the metagame and be banned to Ubers (which we try to avoid as that means it's not usable in most cases for players due to not having matchmaking for Ubers or having any pokemon in it to justify it).

PokeMMO is also trying to avoid complex bans (Banning thing+thing combos) where possible, so instead of simply banning Hydreigon+Draco Meteor we just prevented it from being capable of learning it so it didn't end up being required. There are two complex bans in effect currently but they are result of an error, Mismagius or Cofagrigus who know Nasty Plot are not allowed in matchmaking because in the past they were given out as event prizes with an egg move that shouldn't have technically been available yet despite being legal (Nasty Plot which can only be gotten by breeding with Spiritomb which isn't available in PokeMMO yet) so to prevent those specific players having an unfair advantage they were complex banned.

Where possible everything is representative of how it was in an official game at some point in time, if you have any queries about specific cases you stumble across and aren't sure why is done that way (or think is an actual error because it doesn't match up with anything in any generation of games) feel free to message me on the forums and I'll happily discuss it with you if you wish.

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1 hour ago, Matoka said:

The closest thing to "Custom" and something that people haven't mentioned here is the fact that Hydreigon cannot learn Draco Meteor, with the reasoning that (correct me if I am wrong) that it would likely be too strong for the metagame and be banned to Ubers (which we try to avoid as that means it's not usable in most cases for players due to not having matchmaking for Ubers or having any pokemon in it to justify it).

Can't you just ban Hydreigon with Draco Meteor during matchmaking how Baton Pass is banned and checked for on a team? Or do you not want PVE players to even use Draco Meteor Hydreigon?

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2 hours ago, Raichu4u said:

Can't you just ban Hydreigon with Draco Meteor during matchmaking how Baton Pass is banned and checked for on a team? Or do you not want PVE players to even use Draco Meteor Hydreigon?

I'll elaborate on this.

We want to balance PvE and PvP in the same way; this is because we believe the content should be treated the same way, rather than two separate formats, it's all just "battling" - this has the added benefit of making both easy to grasp.

 

In addition, we are actively trying to avoid having monsters placed into 'Ubers' as it is effectively a ban list.

As we see it - once something reached ubers, it is past the point of being balanced, and our goal is to keep this game balanced wherever possible.

 

If this requires removing the ability to learn moves, reverting stat changes or not applying later mechanics to moves, then we'll opt to do so; we try to avoid straying too far from vanilla if it can be helped.

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3 hours ago, Darkshade said:

In addition, we are actively trying to avoid having monsters placed into 'Ubers' as it is effectively a ban list.

As we see it - once something reached ubers, it is past the point of being balanced, and our goal is to keep this game balanced wherever possible.

 

But my question is that why not just ban Draco Meteor on Hydregion specifically from PVP like Baton Pass is? You can still use Baton Pass in PVE. Heck, you can still use Ubers in PVE.

 

Is it the dev's team opinion that Draco Meteor Hydregion is even overpowered for PVE?

Edited by Raichu4u
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44 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

But my question is that why not just ban Draco Meteor on Hydregion specifically from PVP like Baton Pass is? You can still use Baton Pass in PVE. Heck, you can still use Ubers in PVE.

 

Is it the dev's team opinion that Draco Meteor Hydregion is even overpowered for PVE?

Please see my previous post for more on this...

7 hours ago, Matoka said:

PokeMMO is also trying to avoid complex bans (Banning thing+thing combos) where possible, so instead of simply banning Hydreigon+Draco Meteor we just prevented it from being capable of learning it so it didn't end up being required. There are two complex bans in effect currently but they are result of an error, Mismagius or Cofagrigus who know Nasty Plot are not allowed in matchmaking because in the past they were given out as event prizes with an egg move that shouldn't have technically been available yet despite being legal (Nasty Plot which can only be gotten by breeding with Spiritomb which isn't available in PokeMMO yet) so to prevent those specific players having an unfair advantage they were complex banned.

But yes, we don't want there to be differences between PvE and PvP content in terms of what you can and can't use, therefore we don't want PvE players having toys (like draco meteor hydreigon) that PvP players don't have access to.

Basically we don't want you to ever go "Oh I made these competitive pokemon for PvP with players but now I can't use them in PvE content" and vice versa

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1 hour ago, Matoka said:

Basically we don't want you to ever go "Oh I made these competitive pokemon for PvP with players but now I can't use them in PvE content" and vice versa

I'm just wondering why it is a special case for Draco Meteor Hydreigon where it is wiped completely from his moveset, when Baton Pass, Nasty Plot Cofagrigus, and Nasty Plot Mismagius have specific clauses for them to not be used in PVP, but those moves are still available to be used in PVE. For the sake of consistency, shouldn't those Pokemon have Nasty Plot removed from their movesets and Baton Pass unusable (although I would prefer if Hydregion was just able to use Draco Meteor in PVE instead)?

Edited by Raichu4u
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10 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

I'm just wondering why it is a special case for Draco Meteor Hydreigon where it is wiped completely from his moveset, when Baton Pass, Nasty Plot Cofagrigus, and Nasty Plot Mismagius have specific clauses for them to not be used in PVP, but those moves are still available to be used in PVE. For the sake of consistency, shouldn't those Pokemon have Nasty Plot removed from their movesets and Baton Pass unusable (although I would prefer if Hydregion was just able to use Draco Meteor in PVE instead)?

SpiritombTM

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13 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

I'm just wondering why it is a special case for Draco Meteor Hydreigon where it is wiped completely from his moveset, when Baton Pass, Nasty Plot Cofagrigus, and Nasty Plot Mismagius have specific clauses for them to not be used in PVP, but those moves are still available to be used in PVE. For the sake of consistency, shouldn't those Pokemon have Nasty Plot removed from their movesets and Baton Pass unusable (although I would prefer if Hydregion was just able to use Draco Meteor in PVE instead)?

We are getting off topic from the original purpose of this thread, but I'll just say this one last reply:

We may be aiming to avoid things being banned in PvP but certain cases, like baton pass, will pop up and sometimes fluctuate from being legal and banned in pvp. Also baton pass is arguably not "OP" but is rather "not competitive" and is of less concern in PvE. You're right that in an ideal world PvP and PvE would have identical rules too.
Baton Pass being removed from the game entirely is significantly different to one pokemon becoming unable to learn a specific move and is a reason why it has not been done.

We may have indeed removed the Nasty Plot ghost's moves, though I do not know personally if this is the case, it is an incredibly minor issue in my opinion as there are much better pokemon to destroy NPC's livelihoods with, at this point the Complex Bans for them are just safety nets.

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7 minutes ago, Matoka said:

We may have indeed removed the Nasty Plot ghost's moves, though I do not know personally if this is the case, it is an incredibly minor issue in my opinion as there are much better pokemon to destroy NPC's livelihoods with, at this point the Complex Bans for them are just safety nets.

Just checked the learndexes and I guess they were wiped. Huh. I guess then I am fine with that if consistency with that is maintained.

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On 3/24/2019 at 12:03 AM, Matoka said:

Any changes that exist are all within the Canon, meaning that they are how something worked at some point in time in the official games, for instance Outrage being 90 BP existed at some point in time in the main games (Games prior to gen 4), same as Dugtrio's attack stat (Games prior to gen 7), even if it's not how they worked in the latest versions (USUM).

The closest thing to "Custom" and something that people haven't mentioned here is the fact that Hydreigon cannot learn Draco Meteor, with the reasoning that (correct me if I am wrong) that it would likely be too strong for the metagame and be banned to Ubers (which we try to avoid as that means it's not usable in most cases for players due to not having matchmaking for Ubers or having any pokemon in it to justify it).

PokeMMO is also trying to avoid complex bans (Banning thing+thing combos) where possible, so instead of simply banning Hydreigon+Draco Meteor we just prevented it from being capable of learning it so it didn't end up being required. There are two complex bans in effect currently but they are result of an error, Mismagius or Cofagrigus who know Nasty Plot are not allowed in matchmaking because in the past they were given out as event prizes with an egg move that shouldn't have technically been available yet despite being legal (Nasty Plot which can only be gotten by breeding with Spiritomb which isn't available in PokeMMO yet) so to prevent those specific players having an unfair advantage they were complex banned.

Where possible everything is representative of how it was in an official game at some point in time, if you have any queries about specific cases you stumble across and aren't sure why is done that way (or think is an actual error because it doesn't match up with anything in any generation of games) feel free to message me on the forums and I'll happily discuss it with you if you wish.

Thank you for the reply, I understand the reasoning. I was just curious after seeing that Dugtrio Attack change. 

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  • 3 months later...

you know i would also like for you to explain the reasoning behind the decision to remove draco meteor  b/c you claim to not want to stray too far from the vanilla games but by banning those moves wether they be op or not is your opinion and keeping pvp and pve on equal footing is not technically a bad thing but your taking away players rights to use any and all movesets, abilities, nature, etc that the companies put into those games to allow players to catch , raise ,and fight with their own way without restrictions, only in certain events and tournaments were some moves, abilities , items and even some pokemons were restricted. but you can't claim this is the case for pokemmo b/c you have no ties to the offical games other than using the roms themselves. draco meteor is no different than earthquake , fire blast , thunder, or any of the other high power moves that can 1 hit ko alot of pokemon in these games, so why single out moves like baton pass , nasty plot and draco meteor?

Edited by damianx69
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On 7/7/2019 at 4:54 AM, damianx69 said:

you know i would also like for you to explain the reasoning behind the decision to remove draco meteor  b/c you claim to not want to stray too far from the vanilla games but by banning those moves wether they be op or not is your opinion and keeping pvp and pve on equal footing is not technically a bad thing but your taking away players rights to use any and all movesets, abilities, nature, etc that the companies put into those games to allow players to catch , raise ,and fight with their own way without restrictions, only in certain events and tournaments were some moves, abilities , items and even some pokemons were restricted. but you can't claim this is the case for pokemmo b/c you have no ties to the offical games other than using the roms themselves. draco meteor is no different than earthquake , fire blast , thunder, or any of the other high power moves that can 1 hit ko alot of pokemon in these games, so why single out moves like baton pass , nasty plot and draco meteor?

Nasty plot is banned bcuz the breeder for this pokes does not exist yet, as Matoka said:

On 3/23/2019 at 5:03 PM, Matoka said:

 There are two complex bans in effect currently but they are result of an error, Mismagius or Cofagrigus who know Nasty Plot are not allowed in matchmaking because in the past they were given out as event prizes with an egg move that shouldn't have technically been available yet despite being legal (Nasty Plot which can only be gotten by breeding with Spiritomb which isn't available in PokeMMO yet) so to prevent those specific players having an unfair advantage they were complex banned.

As for button pass.. its only banned in pvp, bcuz ressons.

 

As for draco meteor, you may argue its the "players right to use any move they want" atleast for pve.

On the other hand the developers own all rights to the game and not you as a player.

 

You could say "its my right to use force of nature in LoL bcuz it existed when the game came out". No you dont, you only own the right to play the game and thats about it (which is also arguable bcuz your rights to play a game can be removed if you break the terms of use), whether you own the right to more things is all up to the devs.

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