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[Op Ed] DoubleJ on the Economy (Again)

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2 minutes ago, Kyu said:

Yes. This is literally "not my department", I don't have any say in tournament prizes, and the only thing I can recommend (I can poke the GMs and say hey guys you're doing something dumb) is based on whether I believe the economy is stable, or whether the prize tiering is too uneven. None of the GMs wanted to touch this topic because of replies like yours, so I'm the best you get, sorry.

I appreciate that you responded to us, it's always nice hearing some form of acknowledgement when the community feels abandoned, and I do apologies if what I said comes of as some sort of attack, that was never my intention. However, I do find it quite disconcerting that the GMs refuse to answer me or replies like mine because we're mean or scary or they just are disinterested I dunno. As it stands silence doesn't build much confidence, and I truly wish I did not have to bother you to get my voice heard by the people who have the type of power needed to answer our concerns. If they just reached out to us like you have, there wouldn't be an outcry from the community. 

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2 minutes ago, Havsha said:

I appreciate that you responded to us, it's always nice hearing some form of acknowledgement when the community feels abandoned, and I do apologies if what I said comes of as some sort of attack, that was never my intention. However, I do find it quite disconcerting that the GMs refuse to answer me or replies like mine because we're mean or scary or they just are disinterested I dunno. As it stands silence doesn't build much confidence, and I truly wish I did not have to bother you to get my voice heard by the people who have the type of power needed to answer our concerns. If they just reached out to us like you have, there wouldn't be an outcry from the community. 

It's not really because of "mean replies", it's just draining as hell to sit here and get yelled at. This is an all-day event, because I can't disengage halfway through without looking like a jerk. My initial reply took an hour to write, and the turbonerds who provide feedback spent a few hours debating the topic between themselves prior to me doing so, but it's not really a good use of anyone's time if we can help it.

 

They do try to listen, though. Most of them just aren't very good at the economic details, and don't want to say something dumb, because that becomes "the staff response."

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24 minutes ago, Kyu said:

When it comes to discussing economic issues, we usually don't want to comment on specifics like this, because if I said in this moment "We're nerfing berries into the ground", the market would probably hyper-inflate as everyone rushes to get as much money as they can out of it. I'll write you a book sometime later though.

Nothing against that, but don't you think, that maybe some change should be done? Like the inflaction we see right now, it's mostly due to this new cash influx.

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Just now, razimove said:

Nothing against that, but don't you think, that maybe some change should be done? Like the inflaction we see right now, it's mostly due to this new cash influx.

It is being considered, yes.

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@Havsha If I were still a GM, I wouldn’t reply to this thread, for a couple of reasons. And negative, “mean” responses are not one of them. I also don’t think that “saying something dumb” is a reason I wouldn’t reply either; I’d just start my post with “In my personal opinion, and not representative of staff as a whole...”

 

I just think there are reasons that I don’t know if I’m allowed to discuss here...

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1 hour ago, Kyu said:

So you might get a lecture about how staff event-driven inflation is bad for the game, or you might get silent changes, or maybe nothing will happen, because hey, making sweeping changes to a standardized system during times of economic volatility probably really is a bad idea.

Just wanted to highlight this point.

 

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2 hours ago, Kyu said:

So, like I said above, this is literally not my department, but yeah, the IV stuff is just a technical issue which hasn't been addressed. We do want to dump a few months into PvP, it's a little bad atm, and the tournament prizes didn't change when the meta's IV importance did. It's literally impossible for them to assign anything other than 4x25,2x31 atm iirc, so that's really our fault.

 

I'll ask one of the prize tier people to look at this topic, but I'm pretty sure that conversation is going to go like this:

5xGDRgM.jpg

 

We are very concerned over whether staff-driven events cause issues in-game due to prize distribution, but I think those concerns may just be outdated as it's all a drop in the bucket compared to our playerbase now. So you might get a lecture about how staff event-driven inflation is bad for the game, or you might get silent changes, or maybe nothing will happen, because hey, making sweeping changes to a standardized system during times of economic volatility probably really is a bad idea.

Totally fair, but to remedy this kind of "hiatus" you should probably just take the reigns with a big "F-U" and host another one of those... uh... what was the name? Something along the lines of "Kyu's Awesome Tournament" with a halfway decent shiny prize in OU. You've always done big things for our comp community. 

 

Until then, I'll be patiently waiting for this two-months worth of work. 

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2 hours ago, Gilan said:

@Havsha If I were still a GM, I wouldn’t reply to this thread, for a couple of reasons. And negative, “mean” responses are not one of them. I also don’t think that “saying something dumb” is a reason I wouldn’t reply either; I’d just start my post with “In my personal opinion, and not representative of staff as a whole...”

 

I just think there are reasons that I don’t know if I’m allowed to discuss here...

I'm not taking pot shots at the GMs, but it's not really their place to discuss things like inflation because it's not their expertise. Half this topic was devoted to the current state of the economy, half of it is tournament prizes and general PvP stuff which they don't really know our plans on. It was meant to be more of a joking comment because topics like these are tiring, but I'm not upset at our players for being mad at us or anything, and I know the GMs would handle it if it were a GM-y matter.

 

I'd be mildly perturbed if someone who didn't know what they were doing showed up and tried to lecture you guys about the goings-on of the economy and all that, because it's misinformation from an authority figure, even if it's meant in good faith. Also, if you have to ask, the answer would probably be "Please do not."

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1 minute ago, Kyu said:

I'm not taking pot shots at the GMs, but it's not really their place to discuss things like inflation because it's not their expertise. Half this topic was devoted to the current state of the economy, half of it is tournament prizes and general PvP stuff which they don't really know our plans on. It was meant to be more of a joking comment because topics like these are tiring, but I'm not upset at our players for being mad at us or anything, and I know the GMs would handle it if it were a GM-y matter.

 

I'd be mildly perturbed if someone who didn't know what they were doing showed up and tried to lecture you guys about the goings-on of the economy and all that, because it's misinformation from an authority figure, even if it's meant in good faith. Also, if you have to ask, the answer would probably be "Please do not."

Yeah, my main reason I wouldn’t have responded would be that GMs just have zero access to any empirical economy data. The best we know about the economy is just a general “feel” for how we perceive it.

 

Didn’t want to start saying what gms do and don’t know...

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17 hours ago, Kyu said:

Fun fact: There's one player who has the rarest hat in the game, the only one of its kind, which is completely worthless because he not only didn't sell it, but it looks terrible.

Ponyta hat isn't even that bad tho. 

On a side note, what's this party hat actually classified at? Event or limited? 

___

And in regard to the shiny comps, do you guys really believe an untradable shiny will affect the shiny market? Shiny market and comp player, are pretty much 2 separated communities.

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To start getting me to play officials, no shiny (unless it's unobtainable for anyone else) or amount of $$$ is going to cut it. I would need prizes that increases my clout - like being able to customize a vanity, or select a once exclusive vanity like the labcoat or knight helmet, a particular star next to my name or anything that would make me stand out.

 

This would probably have to be offered for the major tours, not your weekly officials. So, perhaps get started on doing a master-like series again. 

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2 hours ago, Kyu said:

I'm not taking pot shots at the GMs, but it's not really their place to discuss things like inflation because it's not their expertise. Half this topic was devoted to the current state of the economy, half of it is tournament prizes and general PvP stuff which they don't really know our plans on. It was meant to be more of a joking comment because topics like these are tiring, but I'm not upset at our players for being mad at us or anything, and I know the GMs would handle it if it were a GM-y matter.

 

I'd be mildly perturbed if someone who didn't know what they were doing showed up and tried to lecture you guys about the goings-on of the economy and all that, because it's misinformation from an authority figure, even if it's meant in good faith. Also, if you have to ask, the answer would probably be "Please do not."

perhaps what need to be changed is the way staff are handled to allow them to handle various situation in a better way. i have an idea on how to change things but it might be not perfectly accurate becaus for some reason the staff is very secretive about their power and task most of the time. i have 3 main change that could potentially make the life of everyone better:

  1. more staff with less "working hours"
  2. more specialization in the staff
  3. more or total transparancy for the staff team

 

i think the "more staff" part explain itself fairly well so i will only elaborate on the "working hours". from what i learned from a discussion i had with bear it appears to not be allowed to join the staff team using an alt meaning that you have to use your main character to now have at all time the "cop uniform". despite this being a game ,being a figure of autority must put some pressure on people has well has tying their hand to some extend wich isn't an issue once in a while but it can add up when you can't take your uniform off. becaus of that someone in the staff team can no longer enjoy the game they love the same way, even if they are still able to enjoy the game if they use an alt it's not the same. on the other hand if they have an incogito alt who is staff they remain able to both help the community and enjoy the game when ever they are feeling like doing one or the other.

 

 

the more specialization idea would be to have more people like the tier council but for other thing like someone who could be in charge of the economy or at least be aware and allowed to talk about it to some extend. from what you said so far it seems like you (and potentially other devs) are the only one aware of anything related to the economy. this means that you are the only one able to anwser question about all this stuff wich i don't belive you should becaus you allready have another specialization and can't nescesairly have always time to anwser us (unless i am wrong becaus you aren't a dev for some reason). another specialization could be for those (or the one) in charge of event prize.

 

 

the point for more transparancy is quite simple, if there is no reason to hide something from us then hang it on a wall somewhere for all of us to see and if there is a reson to hide it then give us a reason. it could be something has simple has safety reason or leagal reason. things like the GMs being completly in charge of the event prize is something i am sure a lot of us if not all where not aware at all becaus from a player point of view they seems to only host the event and not much else beside that for the events.

 

 

all of this wouldn't cost that much in the long run but it would most likely improve the moral of both the community and staff team as well has potentially improving the quality of the staff without needing saint that would be able to take shit all day everyday. also a community more informed might also be able to help better.

 

 

ps: well that was a bit of a stretch to put it here since this could be a suggestion in itself but fuck it it's allready all writen here so yall be getting it

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11 hours ago, Kyu said:

Yes. This is literally "not my department", I don't have any say in tournament prizes, and the only thing I can recommend (I can poke the GMs and say hey guys you're doing something dumb) is based on whether I believe the economy is stable, or whether the prize tiering is too uneven. None of the GMs wanted to touch this topic because of replies like yours, so I'm the best you get, sorry.

 

That'd probably be a good way to recycle them, but I can't recall whether the motivation of it was purely for asset reasons (we are, eventually, going to run out of ideas), or whether there was some economic reason to it being brought up. If it were just for asset reasons, highly derivative stuff like that would be an ok way to manage it imo.

 

What I was alluding to in my original post was whether free players have access to items which are immune to inflation without having to dump money into the game, and without having to trade with another player. Currently, within our current event model, they do. They still do even if we stop giving them away, it's not like we're tiering tradeability based on how much money you threw at us, but being able to access that class of inflation-immune item by themselves helps kind of bridge the divide between free/paid players, and probably helps players resent us less. But, maybe I'm overthinking it, and nobody really cares. I think this knowledge of inflation-immune items only recently became a topic of the public consciousness as the rest of the system showed cracks, so maybe they care now, though.

 

When it comes to discussing economic issues, we usually don't want to comment on specifics like this, because if I said in this moment "We're nerfing berries into the ground", the market would probably hyper-inflate as everyone rushes to get as much money as they can out of it. I'll write you a book sometime later though.

 

So, like I said above, this is literally not my department, but yeah, the IV stuff is just a technical issue which hasn't been addressed. We do want to dump a few months into PvP, it's a little bad atm, and the tournament prizes didn't change when the meta's IV importance did. It's literally impossible for them to assign anything other than 4x25,2x31 atm iirc, so that's really our fault.

 

I'll ask one of the prize tier people to look at this topic, but I'm pretty sure that conversation is going to go like this:

5xGDRgM.jpg

 

We are very concerned over whether staff-driven events cause issues in-game due to prize distribution, but I think those concerns may just be outdated as it's all a drop in the bucket compared to our playerbase now. So you might get a lecture about how staff event-driven inflation is bad for the game, or you might get silent changes, or maybe nothing will happen, because hey, making sweeping changes to a standardized system during times of economic volatility probably really is a bad idea.

 

You can read the advice and information I sent you

@Kyu

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I'll be economic GM if I get access to data containing yen faucets and sinks.

I'll make inflation rate policies and improve the official event rewards.

Tyrones seasonal vanity crown tournament will become a reality.

Plsvote #Tyrone4GM

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1 hour ago, Tyrone said:

I'll be economic GM if I get access to data containing yen faucets and sinks.

I'll make inflation rate policies and improve the official event rewards.

Tyrones seasonal vanity crown tournament will become a reality.

Plsvote #Tyrone4GM

You couldn't even make golden bird nest hat a reality

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53 minutes ago, Munya said:

You couldn't even make golden bird nest hat a reality

That'd be the event crown he speaks of

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1 hour ago, razimove said:

That'd be the event crown he speaks of

 

2 hours ago, Munya said:

You couldn't even make golden bird nest hat a reality

It's still in the works.

A certain vanity item designer commented 'soon' on the arrival of the golden bird nest hat. So ETA 2020. (This meme was funnier a few years, nowadays it's only 1 year away and too realistic)

The crowns would be goddamn epic though.

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21 hours ago, Kyu said:

if I said in this moment "We're nerfing berries into the ground", the market would probably hyper-inflate as everyone rushes to get as much money as they can out of it.

Do it. It's sad that the best way to make money is doing little to no work by watering berries on 20 alts & making millions per day. The last update was a step in the right direction but it still wasn't good enough. 

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2 hours ago, ImFunk said:

Do it. It's sad that the best way to make money is doing little to no work by watering berries on 20 alts & making millions per day. The last update was a step in the right direction but it still wasn't good enough. 

Ermm have you watered all 3 regions? It's not little work xd takes an hour + to plant them then you still have to water them. It's definitely some work

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1 minute ago, Goku said:

Ermm have you watered all 3 regions? It's not little work xd takes an hour + to plant them then you still have to water them. It's definitely some work

Yeah pressing my hotkey for a wailmer pail 186 times for a few mil is really hard. 

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59 minutes ago, ImFunk said:

Yeah pressing my hotkey for a wailmer pail 186 times for a few mil is really hard. 

Yeh never said it is hard I said it is time consuming. It's a good way to make cash, you can benefit from it and so can the entire community so just let it be. If you'd rather grind your ass off beating gyms and such be my guest. Like someone said it's not bad cuz it isn't generating money, it's simply moving it around.

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2 minutes ago, Goku said:

Like someone said it's not bad cuz it isn't generating money, it's simply moving it around.

I don't think you understand. People use many, many accounts to grow berries and sell them to NPCs, not other players. That's where my problem is. If they sold their berries to other players, it would be a bit more reasonable. 

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9 minutes ago, Goku said:

Yeh never said it is hard I said it is time consuming. It's a good way to make cash, you can benefit from it and so can the entire community so just let it be. If you'd rather grind your ass off beating gyms and such be my guest. Like someone said it's not bad cuz it isn't generating money, it's simply moving it around.

Quite funny to see you not even understand where the yen inflation comes from, yet label yourself as 'someone who understands economy', lol.

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