World Cup Week #1

[OrangeManiac]

27 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

I really don't understand how Axoa isn't given a win when it's a 100% clearly defined path to victory. From what I read, even if everything goes against Axoa's favor regarding misses, crits, paras, it's still going to end up in Axoa winning the game. 

 

The rule is fine for situations where the game is midway, and it becomes really impossible or tedious to recreate the game turn by turn, but this isn't so here. I've always regarded rules to promote fairness, so I really hope the hosts change their decision. 

The precedent in PokeMMO since the introduction of the timer is that if your timer runs out, you are declared as the losing player. Since we didn't make any rule that "we could analyze timer losses if they were wins by playing", the only correct way to rule as far as I see is to follow the PokeMMO precedent, which is that a player who runs out of time loses the game. If Smogon or someone else doesn't see the timer that way, they're free to have that interpretation but seeing how timer in PokeMMO goes, this is the only interpretation I have from this situation. Lots of common games (such as chess) will declare the player whose time has ran out as the losing player, even if anyone with half of a brain cell could tell that said player would win. The way I see it is that this is game dependent issue and I unfortunately feel that PokeMMO so far has followed the chess-like standard more than Smogon-like standard.

 

The other three hosts may have a different opinion but this is going to be my personal stance to this matter and it's not going to change for me. It's a shit situation and probably doesn't feel fair but it's the only correct call in this situation, as far as I'm concerned.

[NikhilR]

Just now, OrangeManiac said:

The precedent in PokeMMO since the introduction of the timer is that if your timer runs out, you are declared as the losing player. 

That's in officials though, and this is an unofficial, so you're really not bound by PokeMMO's official precedent. 

 

Just now, OrangeManiac said:

Since we didn't make any rule that "we could analyze timer losses if they were wins by playing", the only correct way to rule as far as I see is to follow the PokeMMO precedent, which is that a player who runs out of time loses the game.

Yes you didn't make any rule that you'd analyze that, but it isn't so much of a stretch to say that, "The default rule is one wins via timeout unless there was no chance for them to win" or something like that. This is again, a choice to follow the old precedent, not something you're bound to do.

 

Just now, OrangeManiac said:

If Smogon or someone else doesn't see the timer that way, they're free to have that interpretation but seeing how timer in PokeMMO goes, this is the only interpretation I have from this situation.

The way Smogon works is quite different, because the rule is different with respect to the situation, like if you DC or timeout because of taking more time to make a move. If you DC, then they recreate the game from the moment you DC'd. The reason for the DC rule is mainly to promote fairness, while also doing their best to prevent exploitation. The staff have a way of knowing whether you intentionally DC or not, which you, the host, can't do. It doesn't make sense for Axoa to intentionally DC when there is a 100% guaranteed win path, so again from fairness point of view, allowing Axoa to take the win makes sense. 

 

Just now, OrangeManiac said:

The way I see it is that this is game dependent issue and I unfortunately feel that PokeMMO so far has followed the chess-like standard more than Smogon-like standard.

Those are very different situations. In chess, you have absolute control over your timer, whereas in MMO when you're lagging, you literally have no control over getting the timer to stop once you've made your move, so the Chess standard shouldn't apply in this situation.

[Roxxass]

4 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

That's in officials though, and this is an unofficial, so you're really not bound by PokeMMO's official precedent. 

We are playing with official rules so The timer is a important thing here.

5 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

Yes you didn't make any rule that you'd analyze that, but it isn't so much of a stretch to say that, "The default rule is one wins via timeout unless there was no chance for them to win" or something like that. This is again, a choice to follow the old precedent, not something you're bound to do.

We have other issues where the players not able to play 'cause to much lag or don't have internet so, if thats the issue u can always delay the duel.

 

6 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

The way Smogon works is quite different, because the rule is different with respect to the situation, like if you DC or timeout because of taking more time to make a move. If you DC, then they recreate the game from the moment you DC'd. The reason for the DC rule is mainly to promote fairness, while also doing their best to prevent exploitation. The staff have a way of knowing whether you intentionally DC or not, which you, the host, can't do. It doesn't make sense for Axoa to intentionally DC when there is a 100% guaranteed win path, so again from fairness point of view, allowing Axoa to take the win makes sense. 

In smogon, specially in pokemon showdown if ur timer end ur duel end, even if u are clearly the winner, ur duel end.

 

7 minutes ago, NikhilR said:

Those are very different situations. In chess, you have absolute control over your timer, whereas in MMO when you're lagging, you literally have no control over getting the timer to stop once you've made your move, so the Chess standard shouldn't apply in this situation.

I will answer that saying that, If u know that u have lag problems or pc issues of course u delay the game u can always talk with ur oponnent and agree for a new day for the match is not like before never happen, just remember the PSL a lot of things happen like this one and what happen? they just delay their duel hours or even a day.

Is just about make a decision, If we make the rematch true, will be unfair for to much people If we just leave this like a defeate for Axoa will be unfair for to much people too, is not a easy decision, soon an official anouncement about that issue will come, hope everyone read it 'cause seems like nobody read the rules of this tournament before.

Have a nice day!! :DD 

[Roxxass]

9 hours ago, Osuki said:

@MknsZblex @Roxxass @OrangeManiac  

 

I timed out during my duel vs MINGKA due to multiple freeze almost every turns and I had 0% chance to lose the match at this point (Timbur 95%+ gastly scarf + frillish 70% + pawniard scarf left vs timbur without eviolite drain punch ice punch mach punch bulk up around 45% + meowth full, i timed out when timbur was vs meowth) I offerred a rematch to make it "fair", they refused and this game decide the outcome of france-china, if i win its still 2-2 so please do something, you can't reward cowards in a competitive events and i can't accept to make my team get a bad start because of this 

Like we said before, soon will do a Official anouncement about this issue between today and tomorrow, for now we are gonna leave that battle without any update

[kiwi]

3 minutes ago, Roxxass said:

 

In smogon, specially in pokemon showdown if ur timer end ur duel end, even if u are clearly the winner, ur duel end.

 

 

Seems like someone neither played/spectated smogon tours

[Roxxass]

Just now, kiwi said:

Seems like someone neither played/spectated smogon tours

Of course I played by the way, another silly aptitud about don't announce ur combat like the rules say u will be punish I'm glad u are here 'cause that's another inecessary issue we need to face 'cause u wasn't able to post ur match. 

[kiwi]

3 minutes ago, Roxxass said:

Of course I played by the way, another silly aptitud about don't announce ur combat like the rules say u will be punish I'm glad u are here 'cause that's another inecessary issue we need to face 'cause u wasn't able to post ur match. 

It says clearly AT LEAST 10 mins before, I posted 24h before whats wrong? Not enough time? Next time I'll anounce it 48h before if u wish

[Nawe]

just announce your match like 30mins before it is, people dont pay attention to more hours announces

[Roxxass]

1 minute ago, Nawe said:

just announce your match like 30mins before it is, people dont pay attention to more hours announces

Seems like is to hard to do that or just try to read the rules, anyway that issue is solved so no need to do more drama about it. 

[Roxxass]

On 1/21/2019 at 8:02 PM, WorldCupMMO said:

 

SCHEDULING A MATCH:

  Hide contents

• Contact your opponent by PM on Discord or the PokeMMO Forums as soon as possible.
• Provide dates and times in order to schedule a match anytime throughout the week.
• PokeMMO duels will take place a Safron city inside Silph Co CH 4 kanto ir Vermilion city ch4
• Announce your duel in this thread at least 10 minutes before it starts. If you don't a rematch will have to take place.
• If you have trouble contacting your opponent, contact your captain and your opponent's captain so the appropriate actions can be made.
• Extensions will only be given for extreme cases. Playing a match during another week can really set things back. 
• If you can't find your opponent's forum name or IGN, just go ask with ur captain and then he will speak with the hosts.
• If your opponent's PokeMMO Forum inbox is full, then contact that player by posting on their profile feed or on Discord
• When you contact your opponent, present at least three (3) different times that you are available throughout the week, preferably on different days
• You must respond to a PM by your opponent within 48 hours; if you do not you will need to be subbed out or face an activity decision loss
• If a substitution is made, it will be as if a new week has started and the players will need to contact one another as outlined above
• If you are unable to duel during the week, please request a substitution from your captain. Unforeseen events do happen.
• If you believe your opponent cannot duel or has ignored your PM, please add the host and the related captaons so that they can take appropriate action

 

 

 

 

 

@kiwi Maybe like this u are able to see it, isn't? :3 

 

1 minute ago, Nawe said:

i think you are not following the rules like you think, i mean you are talking in spanish without a translation as the rules of this forum says hehe

Leave him I think we need to quote every rule for him since he is not able to read it.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Roxxass

[Cessylinda]

 

lmao

Edited January 25, 2019 by Cessylinda

[Cessylinda]

imbécil ;)

[NikhilR]

13 minutes ago, Roxxass said:

We are playing with official rules so The timer is a important thing here.

Other than the timer rule, what is the other official rule that you're following?

 

13 minutes ago, Roxxass said:

We have other issues where the players not able to play 'cause to much lag or don't have internet so, if thats the issue u can always delay the duel.

I can't say with 100% certainty, but I know Axoa is not dumb enough to accept a game when having internet issues. Sometimes things happen after the game has happened, like power cuts, rain or whatever. Delaying the game is not always a favorable solution since it could also lead to possible activity win requests. The best way to deal with these two is to modify the rules. 

 

13 minutes ago, Roxxass said:

In smogon, specially in pokemon showdown if ur timer end ur duel end, even if u are clearly the winner, ur duel end.

There's a difference between pokemon showdown and smogon. Also, your statement is just completely wrong, as I pulled this from the SPL thread:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-premier-league-x-week-3.3646245/

 

(Shameless plug, watch your Indian Prince play giara for W3 of SPL on Sunday 2 PM EST on their smogtour server

 

13 minutes ago, Roxxass said:

Is just about make a decision, If we make the rematch true, will be unfair for to much people If we just leave this like a defeate for Axoa will be unfair for to much people too, is not a easy decision, soon an official anouncement about that issue will come, hope everyone read it 'cause seems like nobody read the rules of this tournament before.

I totally understand that decisions like this aren't easy, but to me it's very clear in what way to decide the game. I just don't think any competitor who had literally 0% chance of winning the game should be able to claim victory. 

 

Edited January 26, 2019 by NikhilR

[FNTCZ]

1 hour ago, Roxxass said:

In smogon, specially in pokemon showdown if ur timer end ur duel end, even if u are clearly the winner, ur duel end.

Yeah but exceptions have been made for cases like these in tournaments like spl and smogon tour. We aren't talking about a random ladder match but a high stakes tournament with dedicated hosts that should be able to make these kind of calls.

 

I'm with nik here that the win should be given to axoa or at least let him have the game remade.

[gbwead]

If MinGKA doesn't want to rematch, w.e , but at the very least could him/her or anyone from the China B team officially decline the rematch? It's one thing to be too scared to face Axoa, but cmon an answer here or on discord is not that hard. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by gbwead

[JhowCrazy]

Me vs BurntZebra in 10 minutes

Edited January 26, 2019 by JhowCrazy

[foyone]

no se por que hay tanta gente opinando cuando la decision sera tomada por los HOST.

antes del ultimo turno le quedaban 10 segundos. Y cuando el timer llego a 0 instantaneamente puso "***" en el chat. Tranquilamente pudo ser una cuestion de distraccion y su equipo olvido decirle que se le acababa el tiempo.

De todas maneras las reglas no hablan sobre rematch y lo que opinen los participantes o espectadores no deberia influir en la decision de los host.
 

9 minutes ago, gbwead said:

If MinGKA doesn't want to rematch, w.e , but at the very least could him/her or anyone from the China B team officially decline the rematch? It's one thing to be too scared to face Axoa, but cmon an answer here or on discord is not that hard. 

they rejected in normal chat after the game.
You are putting your own problem on China side and thats out of sportmanship. If they dont offer rematch you dont must ask for it.

btw, are you french?
 

Edited January 26, 2019 by foyone

[Roxxass]

1 hour ago, NikhilR said:

Other than the timer rule, what is the other official rule that you're following?

When that happen to u in a officia tournament, the staff give u a rematch? thats all I can say about that. You have a complete 1 week to make ur match, completely 1 week, If We the hosts follow the official tournaments welp, for more arguments u make the decision will be the make, ok is not a official tournament but We are doing this with official tournaments rules so I think is not hard to understand at all everything.

 

1 hour ago, NikhilR said:

I can't say with 100% certainty, but I know Axoa is not dumb enough to accept a game when having internet issues. Sometimes things happen after the game has happened, like power cuts, rain or whatever. Delaying the game is not always a favorable solution since it could also lead to possible activity win requests. The best way to deal with these two is to modify the rules. 

Like argument u told me, u are not completely sure about that, we can took some examples from other matches like the match from Imaverybest vs parke, they delay the game 1 day 'cause net issues and goon played the duel even he know that he got a thunderstorm problem in their country so, how to modify the rules when the players dont took their respectives security measures before a duel, I can say 100% for sure that If axoa told to ming if they can delay the game a different stuff would happen. 

 

1 hour ago, NikhilR said:

There's a difference between pokemon showdown and smogon. Also, your statement is just completely wrong, as I pulled this from the SPL thread:

https://www.smogon.com/forums/threads/smogon-premier-league-x-week-3.3646245/

 

(Shameless plug, watch your Indian Prince play giara for W3 of SPL on Sunday 2 PM EST on their smogtour server

Axoa told about freezes and other stuff like i said before, the correct security measures before the duel How we gonna know about that? what happen if axoa know about all that things about their pc/internet and he continue played? isn't that their responsability? that How I see that drama where a guy named ~ Luigi talk.

 

1 hour ago, NikhilR said:

 

I totally understand that decisions like this aren't easy, but to me it's very clear in what way to decide the game. I just don't think any competitor who had literally 0% chance of winning the game should be able to claim victory. 

The same think we though about a player who take the risk even If he/she know that he can be disconnected any time in the battle, how we gonna know that? Hard decision more when A lot of people only see one thing about all this stuff instead of see both sides of the coin. 

 

31 minutes ago, foyone said:

antes del ultimo turno le quedaban 10 segundos. Y cuando el timer llego a 0 instantaneamente puso "***" en el chat. Tranquilamente pudo ser una cuestion de distraccion y su equipo olvido decirle que se le acababa el tiempo.
 

He said this "before the end of the turn when the timer reach 0 axoa wrote "****" in the chat. Can be a thing about distraction and their team forgot to tell about the time. 

So we have another thing about to talk, did u see? u need to finish ur match even if u have a completely control about that. Anyway we didn't make an official announcement alrady so, keep calm and play the world cup. 

Edited January 26, 2019 by Roxxass

[BurntZebra]

won, gg

[Roxxass]

Ok guys about axoa stuff, we gonna make an official announcement between tomorrow and sunday.

THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS AND ARGUMENTS. 

[gbwead]

17 minutes ago, foyone said:

they rejected in normal chat after the game.

I didn't see that.

 

17 minutes ago, foyone said:

You are putting your own problem on China side and thats out of sportmanship. If they dont offer rematch you dont must ask for it.

You're free to fuck off while I do what I want. The rematch offer is based on sportmanship, so I have no fucking idea what you're even talking about, just mind your own business.

 

 

 

[ApacheHelicopter]

44 minutes ago, Roxxass said:

He said this "before the end of the turn when the timer reach 0 axoa wrote "****" in the chat. Can be a thing about distraction and their team forgot to tell about the time. 

 

Dude no offense but that’s like dumb af. He said during the match he had problems, every move he did had delays.

not to mention he didn’t have to think 45sec to know what to do against Meowth. 

 

It was a goddamn won match, don’t try to fool Axoa telling him he could’ve somehow done this on purpose or simply did the most pooped mistake in Pokémmo history. You’re just insulting him. If you don’t want to grant the rematch, that’s fine but do not hide behind stupid argument, or you loose your credibility. Especially when it comes to one of the best competitive player out there.

[Takens]

4 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

The precedent in PokeMMO since the introduction of the timer is that if your timer runs out, you are declared as the losing player. Since we didn't make any rule that "we could analyze timer losses if they were wins by playing", the only correct way to rule as far as I see is to follow the PokeMMO precedent, which is that a player who runs out of time loses the game. If Smogon or someone else doesn't see the timer that way, they're free to have that interpretation but seeing how timer in PokeMMO goes, this is the only interpretation I have from this situation. Lots of common games (such as chess) will declare the player whose time has ran out as the losing player, even if anyone with half of a brain cell could tell that said player would win. The way I see it is that this is game dependent issue and I unfortunately feel that PokeMMO so far has followed the chess-like standard more than Smogon-like standard.

 

The other three hosts may have a different opinion but this is going to be my personal stance to this matter and it's not going to change for me. It's a shit situation and probably doesn't feel fair but it's the only correct call in this situation, as far as I'm concerned.

 

1 hour ago, Roxxass said:

Ok guys about axoa stuff, we gonna make an official announcement between tomorrow and sunday.

THANK YOU EVERYBODY FOR YOUR SUGGESTIONS AND ARGUMENTS. 

Rematch should be possible with a condition of the players having to change their team structures. We are not Pokemmo staff this event goes way far than just the pokemmo rules as an independent tournament. Let the rematch happen that's what i think is best i mean shit happens and there is no way to stop that.

[NikhilR]

4 minutes ago, Roxxass said:

When that happen to u in a officia tournament, the staff give u a rematch? thats all I can say about that. You have a complete 1 week to make ur match, completely 1 week, If We the hosts follow the official tournaments welp, for more arguments u make the decision will be the make, ok is not a official tournament but We are doing this with official tournaments rules so I think is not hard to understand at all everything.

Yes, staff have allowed rematches at times. It depends on the discretion of the staff, and whether it's the finals, but staff have given rematches. There have been several instances where a rematch has been offered, but off the top of my head, Forfiter dc'd vs me in a tour in a final that took place eons ago, and I was asked in whispers by the host whether I would be alright with offering the rematch. Usually the staff requests that both parties consent to a rematch for it to happen, and I can't imagine how much of a uguu you need to be to deny a rematch. 

 

8 minutes ago, Roxxass said:

Like argument u told me, u are not completely sure about that, we can took some examples from other matches like the match from Imaverybest vs parke, they delay the game 1 day 'cause net issues and goon played the duel even he know that he got a thunderstorm problem in their country so, how to modify the rules when the players dont took their respectives security measures before a duel, I can say 100% for sure that If axoa told to ming if they can delay the game a different stuff would happen. 

Again, the Goon situation is not the same because Axoa was going to 100% win. That alone warrants a different a outcome. 

 

10 minutes ago, Roxxass said:

Axoa told about freezes and other stuff like i said before, the correct security measures before the duel How we gonna know about that? what happen if axoa know about all that things about their pc/internet and he continue played? isn't that their responsability? that How I see that drama where a guy named ~ Luigi talk.

It's definitely their responsibility to warn the other player if they're having net issues, but again that doesn't matter if Axoa was going to 100% win. 

 

11 minutes ago, Roxxass said:

The same think we though about a player who take the risk even If he/she know that he can be disconnected any time in the battle, how we gonna know that? Hard decision more when A lot of people only see one thing about all this stuff instead of see both sides of the coin. 

 

He said this "before the end of the turn when the timer reach 0 axoa wrote "****" in the chat. Can be a thing about distraction and their team forgot to tell about the time. 

So we have another thing about to talk, did u see? u need to finish ur match even if u have a completely control about that. Anyway we didn't make an official announcement alrady so, keep calm and play the world cup. 

Yeah, but why would Axoa disconnect with a guaranteed win path?

 

I definitely didn't see the game, but from reading what everyone has said about the game, I'll take Axoa's word over the one who is being silent on the whole issue. 

[DaftCoolio]

1 hour ago, gbwead said:

I didn't see that.

 

You're free to fuck off while I do what I want. The rematch offer is based on sportmanship, so I have no fucking idea what you're even talking about, just mind your own business.

 

 

 

should of just won your match gb