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Catch Rate Revert


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During the Xmas Event, along with the event, we got a catch rate adjustment. And it's been causing more problems than it has solutions. (Ex: A Duskull breaks out of 3 repeat balls even though since I've caught it before, it should have a catch rate of 100%)

 

Simply put, fix the catch rates to how they were before. This new system doesn't make it any better, it just makes it worse and makes more people mad.

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Upvoting.

Sure it stays in line with the game's canon but if the goal was to make breeding more accessible and less frustrating then this change essentially doubles the time it takes to catch breeders and in some case it even triples it (Whismurs holding Chesto Berries) or adds a random number of time (Paras).

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duskull has a catch rate of 190

 

repeatball fails on 255catch rate poke like lotad since update as well.

 

The change in system was explained as a bug fix.Very confusing since it says for low-tier balls but repeatball is not low and it was affected as well.

No admin said a word about this change so its realy hard to realy know whats going on as only they realy know the facts.

 

also 1hp tentacool fails to catch with pokeball.Its a 190catchrate poke.Radical change in system.

 

 

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  • 5 months later...

Making my points here as stated in this thread regarding this issue.

 

 

There seems to be a lot of confusion and it's due, in large part, to the over use of the term "broken"; using it interchangeably to describe something that too Over Powered and something that is not working as intended. Before I get into my points, I will point out that I am using the term broken here to refer to mechanics/calculations not working as intended.

 

With respect to Pokeballs. It was stated that some were nerfed as they were deemed to be too OP for an MMO environment in that their respective multipliers were considered to be too high and thus allowed a larger influx of Pokemon into the market too quickly. If that makes any sense.

 

With respect to catch rates. From what was mentioned in the thread above it sounds more like the calculations were simply broken. Not that the mechanic itself didn't work but that the rates were not applied correctly with respect to the species in question. Ditto was brought up as an example in that it used to use the catch rate of the species in transformed into as the catch rate rather than its own unique catch rate. I believe this is what @Darkshade was, in part, referring to when he stated that the catch rates were too advantageous compared to the vanilla games.

 

I do understand how this can be confusing as the catch rates themselves could have been considered to be too OP, but from the sound of it the rates were slated to be set to a specific manner and either changed incorrectly or not at all. So in that sense, the catch rates were broken whereas the certain Pokeballs were too OP.

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23 hours ago, XelaKebert said:

Making my points here as stated in this thread regarding this issue.

 

 

There seems to be a lot of confusion and it's due, in large part, to the over use of the term "broken"; using it interchangeably to describe something that too Over Powered and something that is not working as intended. Before I get into my points, I will point out that I am using the term broken here to refer to mechanics/calculations not working as intended.

 

With respect to Pokeballs. It was stated that some were nerfed as they were deemed to be too OP for an MMO environment in that their respective multipliers were considered to be too high and thus allowed a larger influx of Pokemon into the market too quickly. If that makes any sense.

 

With respect to catch rates. From what was mentioned in the thread above it sounds more like the calculations were simply broken. Not that the mechanic itself didn't work but that the rates were not applied correctly with respect to the species in question. Ditto was brought up as an example in that it used to use the catch rate of the species in transformed into as the catch rate rather than its own unique catch rate. I believe this is what @Darkshade was, in part, referring to when he stated that the catch rates were too advantageous compared to the vanilla games.

 

I do understand how this can be confusing as the catch rates themselves could have been considered to be too OP, but from the sound of it the rates were slated to be set to a specific manner and either changed incorrectly or not at all. So in that sense, the catch rates were broken whereas the certain Pokeballs were too OP.

Here’s the thing: just saying that it’ll “better fit an MMO environment” is vague and unconvincing. Not to mention one of the laziest excuses.

 

Also, again let me say. This change has induced much more anger within the player base. There hasn’t been a single person who has stated this is a good thing(except for staff of course, but that’s just bias). It’s caused more problems and not any solutions.

 

And regarding the whole “economy” deal, the economy will die anyways. Especially since people will stop breeder hunting since it won’t be worth wasting more money catching Pokemon that aren’t breed-worthy. Prices won’t change.

**And even then, the economy will flourish once we get sinnoh and dungeons since there’ll be more gen 4 mons and shinies as well as legendaries and shiny legendaries. But that’s a different topic

 

And should I remind you not EVERY pokemon you catch is guaranteed to be a 1x31. So you could have a really weak Duskull break out of 3 repeat balls(even though the catch rate calcs say its supposed to be a guaranteed catch). And to rub salt in the wound, it’s not even a 1x31. Which of course, brings me back to the point that people won’t find breeder hunting as worth it anymore, so they’ll stop.

 

So again, a terrible change that needs to be reverted.

Edited by BoltBlades12
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23 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Here’s the thing: just saying that it’ll “better fit an MMO environment” is vague and unconvincing. Not to mention one of the laziest excuses.

 

It's been said and I'll say it again. Pokemon was never designed to be an MMO. It's designed to be a single player experience. While the intent of there being two different versions for each generation is to encourage the players to trade among friends to complete the Pokedex the fact is that a lot of people just buy both versions and trade with themselves. This is why you get access to pretty much anything you could ever want in each version. Nintendo and Game Freak don't care because there is no economy. Hell, even Competitive play was more an afterthought for them. Look at the official tournaments they hold and what is banned. It's all OP legends, that's it. There are no tiers in their comp scene. Why? That wasn't something they thought about during design. So the reasoning of, "X mechanic was changed to better suit an MMO environment," isn't lazy and pulls more weight because the dev team has to literally look at every mechanic and decide which need redesigned to work better in an MMO environment, which need tweaked, and which should be left alone.

 

23 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Also, again let me say. This change has induced much more anger within the player base. There hasn’t been a single person who has stated this is a good thing(except for staff of course, but that’s just bias). It’s caused more problems and not any solutions.

Change is difficult when you are used to things being super easy. I remember the days when Yen was ridiculously easy to farm and the resulting inflation that occurred when it became a tradeable good. I remember the salt of players who had massive amounts of wealth stripped away to balance the economy, and I get it. You put in a lot of hard work to have it stripped away in an instant. It's always frustrating to have mass amounts of effort undercut later on, and it always will be. The only good thing is that it is showing the devs at least care about the long term health of the economy, which they have stated that are watching. They have more data than anyone on the forums could really care to gather on the in game economy so they are watching trends to see if anything is bordering on unhealthy or not.

 

23 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

And regarding the whole “economy” deal, the economy will die anyways. Especially since people will stop breeder hunting since it won’t be worth wasting more money catching Pokemon that aren’t breed-worthy. Prices won’t change.

**And even then, the economy will flourish once we get sinnoh and dungeons since there’ll be more gen 4 mons and shinies as well as legendaries and shiny legendaries. But that’s a different topic

This is all purely speculation and holds no weight. The economy is still alive so long as goods transfer from player to player and from player to NPC. Saying that people will stop breeder hunting is honestly the most ridiculous thing I've seen. Your circle of friends may stop hunting, but that just means someone else can take their place in the market. Saying that prices won't change is kind of what the devs want to a degree. Stable prices means that the market isn't trending towards hyperinflation, this is a good thing. Of course, things will increase or decrease in value based on a variety of factors, but this is fine because that happens all the time. When Sinnoh comes out there will be some varying in prices for some time while the market adjusts to the influx of new species, items, and Yen sources. This happens in any MMO when a new expansion comes out.

 

23 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

And should I remind you not EVERY pokemon you catch is guaranteed to be a 1x31. So you could have a really weak Duskull break out of 3 repeat balls(even though the catch rate calcs say its supposed to be a guaranteed catch). And to rub salt in the wound, it’s not even a 1x31. Which of course, brings me back to the point that people won’t find breeder hunting as worth it anymore, so they’ll stop.

This is where the nerf of certain Pokeballs comes into play as well. While the multipliers were deemed to be too OP for an MMO, it's simply not healthy to allow guaranteed catches every single time and even when you use ideal conditions (sleep/paralyze + 1HP) the odds that these balls will fail should still be lower than you think. Unless the calcs are broken on them, which is a different topic, you are rolling terribly on RNG. Of course, this also means that you will have to purchase more Pokeballs which means that Yen gets deleted from the economy when you do this. The economy needs that. If you are using less Pokeballs and yen piles into the economy faster than it is going out the economy trends towards hyperinflation, which again is bad.

 

23 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

 

So again, a terrible change that needs to be reverted.

No system is perfect, but a full revert is likely to do more harm than good. Economy management in MMOs is a continuous task for dev teams. You can't just pop up an MMO and let the economy be, it has to be watched and attempts should be made to keep it in balance. If you don't players will quit because it will take far more effort than it's worth to purchase one single item.

 

Note: I'm not discounting the argument that something may well be wrong and that there could be a better solution. I'm discounting the notion that catch rates need reverted simply because it makes farming more difficult.

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1 hour ago, XelaKebert said:

It's been said and I'll say it again. Pokemon was never designed to be an MMO. It's designed to be a single player experience. While the intent of there being two different versions for each generation is to encourage the players to trade among friends to complete the Pokedex the fact is that a lot of people just buy both versions and trade with themselves. This is why you get access to pretty much anything you could ever want in each version. Nintendo and Game Freak don't care because there is no economy. Hell, even Competitive play was more an afterthought for them. Look at the official tournaments they hold and what is banned. It's all OP legends, that's it. There are no tiers in their comp scene. Why? That wasn't something they thought about during design. So the reasoning of, "X mechanic was changed to better suit an MMO environment," isn't lazy and pulls more weight because the dev team has to literally look at every mechanic and decide which need redesigned to work better in an MMO environment, which need tweaked, and which should be left alone.

 

Change is difficult when you are used to things being super easy. I remember the days when Yen was ridiculously easy to farm and the resulting inflation that occurred when it became a tradeable good. I remember the salt of players who had massive amounts of wealth stripped away to balance the economy, and I get it. You put in a lot of hard work to have it stripped away in an instant. It's always frustrating to have mass amounts of effort undercut later on, and it always will be. The only good thing is that it is showing the devs at least care about the long term health of the economy, which they have stated that are watching. They have more data than anyone on the forums could really care to gather on the in game economy so they are watching trends to see if anything is bordering on unhealthy or not.

 

This is all purely speculation and holds no weight. The economy is still alive so long as goods transfer from player to player and from player to NPC. Saying that people will stop breeder hunting is honestly the most ridiculous thing I've seen. Your circle of friends may stop hunting, but that just means someone else can take their place in the market. Saying that prices won't change is kind of what the devs want to a degree. Stable prices means that the market isn't trending towards hyperinflation, this is a good thing. Of course, things will increase or decrease in value based on a variety of factors, but this is fine because that happens all the time. When Sinnoh comes out there will be some varying in prices for some time while the market adjusts to the influx of new species, items, and Yen sources. This happens in any MMO when a new expansion comes out.

 

This is where the nerf of certain Pokeballs comes into play as well. While the multipliers were deemed to be too OP for an MMO, it's simply not healthy to allow guaranteed catches every single time and even when you use ideal conditions (sleep/paralyze + 1HP) the odds that these balls will fail should still be lower than you think. Unless the calcs are broken on them, which is a different topic, you are rolling terribly on RNG. Of course, this also means that you will have to purchase more Pokeballs which means that Yen gets deleted from the economy when you do this. The economy needs that. If you are using less Pokeballs and yen piles into the economy faster than it is going out the economy trends towards hyperinflation, which again is bad.

 

No system is perfect, but a full revert is likely to do more harm than good. Economy management in MMOs is a continuous task for dev teams. You can't just pop up an MMO and let the economy be, it has to be watched and attempts should be made to keep it in balance. If you don't players will quit because it will take far more effort than it's worth to purchase one single item.

 

Note: I'm not discounting the argument that something may well be wrong and that there could be a better solution. I'm discounting the notion that catch rates need reverted simply because it makes farming more difficult.

1. Not EVERY MMO needs an economy to be a good one.

2. If Pokemon was meant to be a single player game, explain Pokeathlon, Contests, Musicals, and those other multiplayer games.

3. Catch rates were already fine the way they were. And keep in mind that not EVERY Pokemon has the same catch rate and the prices on gtl as they were were understandable.

Take Scyther for example. It goes up at about 25k on GTL. As opposed to Larvitar who goes at 10k and Timburr at 5k. Even though all of their evolutions are OU. Simple reason why:

a) Larvitar and Timburr can be found in multiple places in Unova and Kanto, whereas Scyther can only be obtained via Game Corner or..

b) Safari Zone. And Safari Balls have the exact same catch rate as Pokeballs. And the only multipliers/dividers you get are rocks/bait, which can affect catch rate or

c) The ability to run. Unlike the other 2, Scyther can run from battle. And depending on how you use them, it can go either ways.

And again, not EVERY pokemon has the exact same catch rate and encounter rate. Like how Beldum has a much lower encounter rate/catch rate than something like a Duskull. Beldum breaking out of repeat balls(granted you have it in your dex) in sleep and at 1hp makes sense. Duskull on the other hand doesn’t. Especially since the catch rate calculators say that if you have duskull in your pokedex, repeat balls should be a guaranteed catch.

4. What I meant was that prices were already stable before the nerf. The prices for breeders will inflate because of the nerf and again, less people will want to buy or hunt.

5. Again, changing a big part of the game is never a good idea. Altering the shiny rate is one thing, since shinies dominate market alongside cosmetics. Maintaining single use TMs as opposed to Gen 5 infinite use TMs is another, as to not complicate things. But nerfing ball effectiveness is not a good idea as that’s a major part of the game. Just like how leaving legendaries out is a bad idea, although that’s another discussion.

6. If this really WAS a good idea, there would be absolutely nobody complaining about the nerf. But the fact that a good amount of the player base still is just proves my point.

 

Its clear that either you’re an alt account of the devs, or you’re just one of their blind followers.

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1 hour ago, BoltBlades12 said:

 

1) Wrong, MMOs function on their Economy for the most part. Especially MMOs that have any form of Consumables (E.g. FFXIV / WoW / PoE / PokeMMO / Maplestory etc. )
2) I am pretty sure the vast majority of people only used these games in the singleplayer modes vs. NPCs, which speaks to single player more than multiplayer.
3) You are citing my own point which illustrates how the "Difficulty" of obtaining something translates into its value. Not everything should be 1,000$ on GTL. Things being more difficult (because you cannot 100% catch them, Safari Zone or Otherwise) is a good thing. You don't like it, that doesn't mean it's not a good thing.
4) Yes, the price for breeders will go up when they are more difficult to obtain. As long as there is demand for breeders (which there is) then people will catch them. What ultimately will change is the selling price of the breeders over the GTL (Which as i said before will go up slightly over time until it counteracts the cost needed for extra pokeballs to catch things like ditto)
5) This isn't true, and what is considered a "big part of the game" is subjective in a lot of ways. Some players just don't bother using Dusk / Repeat Balls and stick to ultra balls anyway and they saw no real change from the Pokeball Multiplier Rate change. Everyone felt the effects of the Catch-Rate Calculation Bug Fix equally but it was a bug fix on something that was making everything easier than it should have been and needed to be fixed. Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's bad.
6) People complain about Vaccines (Anti-Vaxxers) yet they are an overwhelmingly beneficial treatment that saves millions of lives. People complain about it so it must be bad by your logic.

Bonus point: You will not hold respectful debates with anyone if you attempt to invalidate things they say with petty points like "You're just a shill for the devs" etc.
If you want to be taken seriously on these forums I personally recommend you avoid doing things like this in the future.

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18 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

1. Not EVERY MMO needs an economy to be a good one.

2. If Pokemon was meant to be a single player game, explain Pokeathlon, Contests, Musicals, and those other multiplayer games.

3. Catch rates were already fine the way they were. And keep in mind that not EVERY Pokemon has the same catch rate and the prices on gtl as they were were understandable.

Take Scyther for example. It goes up at about 25k on GTL. As opposed to Larvitar who goes at 10k and Timburr at 5k. Even though all of their evolutions are OU. Simple reason why:

a) Larvitar and Timburr can be found in multiple places in Unova and Kanto, whereas Scyther can only be obtained via Game Corner or..

b) Safari Zone. And Safari Balls have the exact same catch rate as Pokeballs. And the only multipliers/dividers you get are rocks/bait, which can affect catch rate or

c) The ability to run. Unlike the other 2, Scyther can run from battle. And depending on how you use them, it can go either ways.

And again, not EVERY pokemon has the exact same catch rate and encounter rate. Like how Beldum has a much lower encounter rate/catch rate than something like a Duskull. Beldum breaking out of repeat balls(granted you have it in your dex) in sleep and at 1hp makes sense. Duskull on the other hand doesn’t. Especially since the catch rate calculators say that if you have duskull in your pokedex, repeat balls should be a guaranteed catch.

4. What I meant was that prices were already stable before the nerf. The prices for breeders will inflate because of the nerf and again, less people will want to buy or hunt.

5. Again, changing a big part of the game is never a good idea. Altering the shiny rate is one thing, since shinies dominate market alongside cosmetics. Maintaining single use TMs as opposed to Gen 5 infinite use TMs is another, as to not complicate things. But nerfing ball effectiveness is not a good idea as that’s a major part of the game. Just like how leaving legendaries out is a bad idea, although that’s another discussion.

6. If this really WAS a good idea, there would be absolutely nobody complaining about the nerf. But the fact that a good amount of the player base still is just proves my point.

 

Its clear that either you’re an alt account of the devs, or you’re just one of their blind followers.

 

1. Yes, yes they do. All of them do, otherwise it's not an MMO it's an instanced single player game where you get to see the other players.

2. It's almost like you went out of your way to ignore the fact that you can play every single one of those by yourself, save for Entree. You don't need other players to enjoy them. Furthermore, those have 0 bearing on the overall design. The games were designed as a single player experience with multiplayer functionality. You, as a player, are able to experience everything the game has to offer without the need for everyone else.

3. Everything is always fine the old way when it benefits you as the player, but if it pushes the economy towards hyperinflation it's still bad. Not to mention if the calcs for catch rate were broken, which they were, then they needed to be fixed.

4. You do know what inflation is right? It's a devaluing of the currency because too much is in circulation. In this case too much of any given species will push their value lower and lower. MMO economies rely on some form of scarcity for resources in order to keep inflation in check. If the prices go up, that is deflation. This means that they are gaining value because there are fewer in circulation. If you are going to use economic terms you should at least use them properly.

 4a. Less people in your circle will hunt, but there are more players in that game than your sphere of influence, stop using this as an argument. It holds no water. Capture is a core mechanic, without players doing it the comp meta grows stale. So this is not something that will happen anytime soon because comp players do not want a stale metagame.

5. If that part of the game is unhealthy overall it needs changed, and especially if it is not working as intended.

6. There are more players than the forums have, forum users complaining does not mean the whole playerbase or the majority are complaining. This holds little water.

 

You clearly went out of your way to ignore my end statement that if there is a problem then there needs to be a fix, but a full revert is not the way to go as there is likely a better solution.

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