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Funkykong

Kill Horde instantly Feature

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I would really appreciate it, if a horde would get instantly killed by Field-Moves like Surf, Earthquake, Rock Slide, etc.

Look at this example here: 

 

 

 

This makes Eving much easier and less stressfull for us all, since let's be honest it's just time consuming and nothing else! :)

(Don't forget to vote up)

 

Edited by Funkykong

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Admins:

a3611c35f92d220ae4cc302265e8278e.png

How do we tell them that we prefer them taking longer to kill a horde, so the population is forced to stay online as long as possible without sounding like weirdos.

 

Also I have this mod that uses pokemons anime cries, I don't appreciate hearing stunfisk saying his name 5 times in a row. XD

Edited by MHkaserz

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They don't have the ability to do this.  Unrealistic expectations.  Looks easy, but deceptively hard to actually implement without a bunch of glitches. 

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39 minutes ago, Aard said:

They don't have the ability to do this.  Unrealistic expectations.  Looks easy, but deceptively hard to actually implement without a bunch of glitches. 

You do realize all calculations to what would be a result of a turn is made before they actually show? 
The game already knows which pokemons would faint and which would be on what health before all the animations happen.
The only thing left is to initiate the animation of HP sliding at the same time.
Then making fainting pokemons fall off screen together and cry all at once if the same species faint together, like they do when the horde spawns.

So do elaborate on how this falls under the category of

43 minutes ago, Aard said:

Unrealistic expectations.
Deceptively hard to actually implement.

Also glitches and bugs are kind of a part of the implementation process, you just keep them to minimal and eventually remove them through testing and debugging.

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4 minutes ago, MHkaserz said:

You do realize all calculations to what would be a result of a turn is made before they actually show? 
The game already knows which pokemons would faint and which would be on what health before all the animations happen.
The only thing left is to initiate the animation of HP sliding at the same time.
Then making fainting pokemons fall off screen together and cry all at once if the same species faint together, like they do when the horde spawns.

So do elaborate on how this falls under the category of

Also glitches and bugs are kind of a part of the implementation process, you just keep them to minimal and eventually remove them through testing and debugging.

I don't think you've watched how the battle chat works.  The chat itself is on a timer independent of the animations.  Removing the animation would just cause you to sit staring at the horde for 20 seconds before the battle abruptly ends.  Making the battle chat faster is what I don't think they can do without breaking a lot of things.  Its on the timer it is to prevent exploits.  

Edited by Aard

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29 minutes ago, Aard said:

I don't think you've watched how the battle chat works.  The chat itself is on a timer independent of the animations.  Removing the animation would just cause you to sit staring at the horde for 20 seconds before the battle abruptly ends.  Making the battle chat faster is what I don't think they can do without breaking a lot of things.  Its on the timer it is to prevent exploits.  

They simply make a special case for hordes? If the results are already known you can simply state "X -species name(s)- fainted", and those who don't faint get the normal messages on timers.

Cha cha used Discharge!
It is super effective!
3 Golducks fainted!
It is super effective!
Golduck hanged on focus sash!
It is super effective!
Golduck took damage!

I'm not saying it is a one line of code that would make this happen, but it is also not "deceptively hard" to implement. 

uncivil people grossly show from their choice of words. ^^

Edited by MHkaserz
Such a salty answer below ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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4 minutes ago, MHkaserz said:

They simply make a special case for hordes? If the results are already known you can simply state "X -species name(s)- fainted", and those who don't faint get the normal messages on timers.

Cha cha used Discharge!
It is super effective!
3 Golducks fainted!
It is super effective!
Golduck hanged on focus sash!
It is super effective!
Golduck took damage!

I'm not saying it is a 1 line of code that would make this happen, but it is also not "deceptively hard" to implement. 

I still think you're grossly overestimating so I'll have to disagree.  Usually suggestions with this many upvotes get implemented if they are doable so I guess we will see what happens.  Anyway, good luck, would be cool if this happens. 

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Wouldnt count on this being implemented. They already limited you to using sweet scent four times. Even you have two sweet scenters in your party. Forcing you to go back to the Pokemon Center every four horde encounters. All in the name of "balancing". It seems Pokemmo is designed to be grindy and inconvenient just for the sake of it. And making horde encounters quicker would probably ruin this " balance".

 

As for the technical aspect, really depents on how flexible the engine is. If a lot of things depend on how things currently are then it's a problem. If Pokemon fainting and the resulting text is merely cosmetic and no other code depends on it for the game to continue then it would be a minimal effort to change. Battle results are calculated all at once and then all sent to the client (as can be seen by how you get the EVs the moment the first HP bar starts to decrease)  So whatever is required to implement this would likely be just client side.

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1 hour ago, fredfuchs285 said:

Battle results are calculated all at once and then all sent to the client (as can be seen by how you get the EVs the moment the first HP bar starts to decrease)  So whatever is required to implement this would likely be just client side.

Yes they can add instant kill feature easly beacuse of that, i thought the same.

 

1 hour ago, fredfuchs285 said:

They already limited you to using sweet scent four times. Even you have two sweet scenters in your party. Forcing you to go back to the Pokemon Center every four horde encounters. All in the name of "balancing". It seems Pokemmo is designed to be grindy and inconvenient just for the sake of it. And making horde encounters quicker would probably ruin this " balance".

They wont add this feature beacuse of this. Balance must preserved.. for economic reasons :P

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On 11/28/2018 at 5:26 PM, MHkaserz said:

How do we tell them that we prefer them taking longer to kill a horde, so the population is forced to stay online as long as possible without sounding like weirdos.

 

Also I have this mod that uses pokemons anime cries, I don't appreciate hearing stunfisk saying his name 5 times in a row. XD

I may be incorrect on this, but I am fairly sure that the reason hordes do not die instantly is indeed so they take slightly longer. If EV training was instant provided you had the right things the time investment to EV train a pokemon would be virtually nothing, which removes much of the value held in the concept of an EV trained pokemon.
You can put on your tinfoil hat and say its so you're "Forced to stay online as long as possible" but since we are not a subscription based game there's no merit to do such a thing, so please believe me it's not that.

In regards to pokemon cries? there is no particular reason I can think of why we have to listen to DEEELEEEELEEEELEEEE WHOOOOOP!!!! 5 times every time we defeat a Kriketune horde, but that is a separate suggestion to this one, and would likely deserve it's own thread as it is inherently different to this suggestion.

Ultimately since this is a video game where you *can* get anything in this game if you invest enough time, logically if we make things take less of this time it will objectively remove some value from whatever it is you were working towards, this would be the same for EV training as it would for stuff like Berry Farming, Everstones, Breeding, etc etc.
The reason they take the time that they do is so they hold value, if you could do them virtually instantly they would just flood the market effectively and lose a lot of value, and that is very bad in a game where the main way people make money is by trading pokemon.

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Well the Berry Farming part would make sense to keep its value via waiting, because farming berries would make sense of keeping that little "IRL factor" of waiting (duh). Percentage-wise value shenanigans like the 5% for Everstones or Lucky Eggs or the 1/30k shinies or whatever is understandable too, because of the economy (duh again). I may be blindsided on this one, but what purpose or "value" does it serve to have us wait all of this time just to get EVs? At the end of the day, we are guaranteed to get EVs from hordes, disregarding the obvious 252 individual or 510 total cap; and there's no small "IRL factor" to justify the waiting time like Berry Farming or Breeding, either. The only "value" i can see for EVs would be vitamins like the Zincs or Proteins for those lazy or too-busy-with-more-important-stuff people; so unless I ain't seeing whatever Hoodini-like "bigger picture" you guys came up with, all you guys are managing to do is annoying your playerbase and/or depleting our already-low-to-the-floor faith and standards of you guys with yet another same old sad tale we hear from you guys.

Edited by MGRazor

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2 hours ago, Matoka said:

The reason they take the time that they do is so they hold value.

Oh ho ho, value? You're saying there's VALUE in waiting 15 extra seconds for each individual pokemon of a 5-mon horde to faint before we move on to the next horde? So what, if we make all pokemon in a horde faint at once if you use a move that hits multiple targets(Earthquake, Surf, etc,), it's gonna lose value in the economy? That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. There's plenty of things already implemented to make certain features have more "value", such as a 1/30k shiny rate as opposed to the 1/8192 rate in the games. Or the fact that Sweet Scent costs PP to use when horde hunting, forcing you to either camp right next to a pokecenter or use leppas, making leppas a lot more valuable than they would be otherwise.

 

Point is, implementing the Kill Horde Instantly feature for moves such as Surf, Earthquake, and other multi-target hitting moves has no negatives. It makes horde hunting/ev training much faster and there's no real reason as to why it would be a "bad thing"

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10 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Oh ho ho, value? You're saying there's VALUE in waiting 15 extra seconds for each individual pokemon of a 5-mon horde to faint before we move on to the next horde? 

Point is, implementing the Kill Horde Instantly feature for moves such as Surf, Earthquake, and other multi-target hitting moves has no negatives. It makes horde hunting/ev training much faster and there's no real reason as to why it would be a "bad thing"

2 Stats x (15 seconds x (252 / 10 EVs) ) = 756 seconds (or 12.6 minutes)

It doesn't take quite as long as 15 seconds for all 5 pokemon to die after surf / EQ etc but you get my point, it adds up.

Also factor in how many pokemon are being EV trained every day, this time adds up and it makes them (albeit artificially) more time consuming to EV train a pokemon, or in other words it requires more work to EV train a pokemon.

Lets take things to the extreme to help understand what I mean by value, lets pretend that you could click a single button if you owned a pokemon with sweet scent and also owned a pokemon with Surf / Earthquake etc.

Pressing this button INSTANTLY perfectly EV trains your pokemon how you want it.

If this was the case, there would be no difference in value between a pokemon that has not been EV trained and one which has (well, okay, technically the one that hadn't been trained in this hypothetical scenario would be more desirable  because you wouldn't need to use Berries to remove EV's in order to customize it, but that's besides the point).

EV training is part of creating competitive pokemon and requires work, and time, which are the only things that you can invest in this video game and ultimately speaking the time it takes to create something (or at least what the buyer of the item perceives to be the time required to create it) is what determines the value of the item.

Please do remember Hordes are the FAST option for EV training, you used to have to encounter pidgeys in route 1 over and over in single battles to EV train speed, now you can just defeat hordes of persian. this is MUCH faster than it used to be, this IS the convenient option but it was just made to be not so convenient that it effectively makes EV trained vs. non ev Trained pokemon completely irrelevant in terms of price difference.

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Oh, but when it came to removing the waiting time for the old man to give you your egg, ADDING THE ABILITY TO BREED GENDERLESS MONS WITH THE SAME EXACT SPECIES, allowing us to change Hidden Powers with type gems so that we can keep our precious 31s intact, and creating a static wait time for your eggs to hatch instead of having eggs hatch at a variable time, you guys didn't stick to your excuses of "holding value"? We appreciate the fact that you guys implemented those things because it is very convenient to breed now and we love y'all for that, but if "value" was the end-all-be-all of suggestion posts, why didn't you guys stop yourselves from implementing those things to preserve the value of breeding, especially Genderless breeding? Why are we able to get a convenience that doomed the value of Genderless comps by a considerable amount and not a convenience that is nowhere near as hurtful to value when compared to Genderless breeding? 

Edited by MGRazor

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@Matoka

Hey, cheers. It wasn’t just a joke. I know it had some truth to it.

Happy it made some people smile though if it did :D

 

And I’m glad you agree with the stunfisk part, but if they faint separately, they will cry separately. Else it’d be weird XD

Edited by MHkaserz

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Here is my take on the whole "value" thing: Any time spend in any game that isn't engaging is a waste of time. In the case of EV training the engaging part is finding the most optimal way to do it, finding the right location and time to initiate horde battles, using exp.share to EV train multiple pokemon .etc. Waiting for some HP bars to deplete or running back to a Pokemon Center every 4 battles isn't engaging and just wastes my time. Time I could be spending doing more enjoyable or usefull things.

 

And I dont think that removing the wait makes the engaging part invalid as having to do it using single battles would still be significantly slower. If you really want it to take longer find a way to make the added time engaging and interesting. So a player enjoys doing it.

 

If wasting the player's time for the sake of "value" is the goal, then why stop here? Add a cool down on sweet scent. Allow it to be used only once instead of the "generous" 4 times. Even better: using it releases the pokemon from the party. Creating a market for cheap sweet scenters on the GTS. Think of all the ways you could make artificial "value"!

 

Sorry, but this excuse about "value" makes the Pokemmo devs sound like EA: " It's all about the pride and accomplishment!"

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, MGRazor said:

 but if "value" was the end-all-be-all of suggestion posts, why didn't you guys stop yourselves from implementing those things to preserve the value of breeding, especially Genderless breeding? Why are we able to get a convenience that doomed the value of Genderless comps by a considerable amount and not a convenience that is nowhere near as hurtful to value when compared to Genderless breeding? 

Speaking personally, I was very against the changes to genderless breeding for reasons such as this (and maintaining some scale of rarity),  but one of the big benefits of changing it to the current system was that it resulted in more genderless mons sunk - which was overall a positive.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Darkshade said:

Speaking personally, I was very against the changes to genderless breeding for reasons such as this (and maintaining some scale of rarity),  but one of the big benefits of changing it to the current system was that it resulted in more genderless mons sunk - which was overall a positive.

 

 

Oh don't get me wrong, I do enjoy the convenience(s) the genderless update brought to us. There will most definately be pros and cons to a lot decisions in general when it comes to overall life, case in point the genderless breeding update. The reason why I used the update to genderless breeding against y'all is to get across my point in that using "value" as a form of a reason to reject a suggestion that would not hurt the economy as much as the genderless shenanigan and would be a small (imo) but very convenient change to all of us is just straight up unfair when compared to past implementation(s) that would otherwise render the "value" reason useless. Now, had that same reason be used for something like an "Increase shiny rate, please" post or a "Let us breed Dittos together" post, which I am sure there have been plenty of those suggestions lurking around the forums before, THEN I would have not argued with it because I know that it's a legitimate reason to justify the reality that PokeMMO is still what the title suggests it is. But conveniences as simple as this is what keeps the playerbase (or more specifically the ones that can be grateful for any small treat they can get from you guys) at least a bit satisfied while they wait semi-patiently for the next big rig of an update to come out while still keeping the grind factor intact for the most part. 

Edited by MGRazor

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I'll be quite honest there: If the killing instantly hordes feature ever gets added, then why wouldn't we add an "eggs hatch instantly" or "skip animation" or even "No more battle introduction" and "HM use skip animation" as well? If there is a thing people cannot seem to do nowadays, it's taking their time...

 

To put it bluntly, all these above mentionned features only have one goal altogether: Requiring to invest time to get a reward at the end. Think as it is, if someone could aquire something instantly, would it actually worth anything?

 

Matoka did a pretty accurate math earlier showing how such as 15 secs by 15 secs, we come to an already greater time demand, but what if everything was instantaly do-able? Everything requiring time would lose value, for the simple fact that you have to use one of the most precious currency to get yourself a nice thing that can generate value, a currency that everyone have but cannot ever get back once given: Time.

 

Anyway, I am not for this suggestion, I am not against either. We'll just see what our lovely devs have in mind and deal with it no matter what, period.

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10 hours ago, Edniss said:

I'll be quite honest there: If the killing instantly hordes feature ever gets added, then why wouldn't we add an "eggs hatch instantly" or "skip animation" or even "No more battle introduction" and "HM use skip animation" as well? If there is a thing people cannot seem to do nowadays, it's taking their time...

 

To put it bluntly, all these above mentionned features only have one goal altogether: Requiring to invest time to get a reward at the end. Think as it is, if someone could aquire something instantly, would it actually worth anything?

 

Matoka did a pretty accurate math earlier showing how such as 15 secs by 15 secs, we come to an already greater time demand, but what if everything was instantaly do-able? Everything requiring time would lose value, for the simple fact that you have to use one of the most precious currency to get yourself a nice thing that can generate value, a currency that everyone have but cannot ever get back once given: Time.

 

Anyway, I am not for this suggestion, I am not against either. We'll just see what our lovely devs have in mind and deal with it no matter what, period.

I think you are sort of exaggerating here. The reasons why the above you mentioned are understandably not implemented are because hatching eggs needs to keep the small "IRL factor" of waiting for eggs to hatch; it would be pretty pointless to add something like that in. Skipping animations wouldn't really do much to begin with because all it adds is like an extra 2 seconds tops of our time, and even then we would still have to wait until each individual pokemon in a horde do their little cry and faint (that's if the devs don't do jack about this much-requested feature). Removing battle introductions would be just straight up sloppy and skipping HM animations, while it would be kinda nice, is not really long enough to be an issue (unless someone is a die-hard speedrunner or what not). 

     The grind for EVs will still be mostly intact; we will still be grinding for those 252s. If we were to ask for an exaggeration of a fix and grind "instantly" like you so kindly exaggerated with the "insta hatch eggs and insta skip intro" or whatever, we would have been asking to make a single encounter with a Pidgey give us an instant 252 Speed and have it give out 99 Proteins per wild encounter while we're at it. If you still want to talk about "preserving value" on EVs, I already talked about the amount of "value" that was preserved in Genderless breed update -- virtually none. I don't want to sound like a broken record now, so nonetheless let's just wait on our precious little "saviours" aka devs to see what they are gonna pull out of whatever.

Edited by MGRazor

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On 12/24/2018 at 4:56 PM, Matoka said:

2 Stats x (15 seconds x (252 / 10 EVs) ) = 756 seconds (or 12.6 minutes)

It doesn't take quite as long as 15 seconds for all 5 pokemon to die after surf / EQ etc but you get my point, it adds up.

Also factor in how many pokemon are being EV trained every day, this time adds up and it makes them (albeit artificially) more time consuming to EV train a pokemon, or in other words it requires more work to EV train a pokemon.

Lets take things to the extreme to help understand what I mean by value, lets pretend that you could click a single button if you owned a pokemon with sweet scent and also owned a pokemon with Surf / Earthquake etc.

Pressing this button INSTANTLY perfectly EV trains your pokemon how you want it.

If this was the case, there would be no difference in value between a pokemon that has not been EV trained and one which has (well, okay, technically the one that hadn't been trained in this hypothetical scenario would be more desirable  because you wouldn't need to use Berries to remove EV's in order to customize it, but that's besides the point).

EV training is part of creating competitive pokemon and requires work, and time, which are the only things that you can invest in this video game and ultimately speaking the time it takes to create something (or at least what the buyer of the item perceives to be the time required to create it) is what determines the value of the item.

Please do remember Hordes are the FAST option for EV training, you used to have to encounter pidgeys in route 1 over and over in single battles to EV train speed, now you can just defeat hordes of persian. this is MUCH faster than it used to be, this IS the convenient option but it was just made to be not so convenient that it effectively makes EV trained vs. non ev Trained pokemon completely irrelevant in terms of price difference.

The more "valued" aspects of Pokemon fall in IVs, Nature, Egg Moves, and Shiny(ness)n NOT EVs. Having the insta-horde kill option doesn't automatically mean that value will go down for everything. The market will remain the same, comp will remain the same. Besides, sometimes for those mixed sets/walls, you need a specific number of evs in each stat, forcing you to go to the single encounters, so it's not like insta-horde killing is always the answer for EV training. And unlike everything else, EVs can be changed, unlike IVs, Nature, Egg Moves, and Shiny(ness), without the need to rebreed. So having an insta-kill horde feature wouldn't hurt at all.

As people don't say, "Oh, this pokemon has 255 in 2 of its stats, it must've taken such a long time to do this." 

They say stuff more on the context of this, "Oh, this pokemon: has 31 ivs in 5 of its stats/has some egg moves that require tons of chain breeding to do/a competitive nature that can be tedious to breed/Is shiny."

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On 11/27/2018 at 2:16 PM, razimove said:

Suggested a couple times already, but was never considered for whatever reason, upvoted.

It's not unconsidered, it just probably requires a major technical change to allow for concurrent damage application. I'll get around to the request later.

 

Not sure why there's so much speculation of perceived value of time spent watching HP bars go down in this topic. I don't consider it a motivator for this change; this gameplay is already limited by item-based resources, and the correct way to balance horde grinding is by tweaking availability of items which allow encountering them instantly (i.e. Sweet Scent/Ether-like item availability/resource requirements).

Edited by Kyu

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