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Chaining


BoltBlades12

Question

I think this would be a very good idea and would help out people who can't be on for many hours shiny hunting or for those who have searches hours upon hours and have had zero luck whatsoever.

There should be a method of chaining(similar to pokeradar) that will allow you to chain a certain pokemon and after chaining that pokemon for a while, it'll have a raised(but not guaranteed) chance to encounter a shiny.

It could also have a similar system to the pokeradar in d/p/pt/x/y regarding the chain breaking. Like if you were to leave the area, the chain would break. Or if you run into a different pokemon that you aren't chaining(the rate for this different pokemon would be the full odds rate), then the chain would break.

It could also be made to where some species can't be chained, such as safari zone mons, fishing mons, and possibly surf and cave mons. That would make sure that the economy maintains balance.

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1 hour ago, BoltBlades12 said:

I think this would be a very good idea and would help out people who can't be on for many hours shiny hunting or for those who have searches hours upon hours and have had zero luck whatsoever.

There should be a method of chaining(similar to pokeradar) that will allow you to chain a certain pokemon and after chaining that pokemon for a while, it'll have a raised(but not guaranteed) chance to encounter a shiny.

It could also have a similar system to the pokeradar in d/p/pt/x/y regarding the chain breaking. Like if you were to leave the area, the chain would break. Or if you run into a different pokemon that you aren't chaining(the rate for this different pokemon would be the full odds rate), then the chain would break.

It could also be made to where some species can't be chained, such as safari zone mons, fishing mons, and possibly surf and cave mons. That would make sure that the economy maintains balance.

All shinies have a novelty to them. Thus, this suggestion may tarnish their rarity which would decrease their valuation. Some people may like the common shinies like Pidgey and others may like the super rare shinies like the Johto starters. Chaining could make shinies a lot easier to obtain which could break their valuations. Shiny Pidgey could sell for about 25k or less.

 

A lot of people enjoy shiny Gligar (I have no ownership in that shiny, but I know a person that had one) and you can find that in a grass field. It would be an awful sight for some people who have taken years to acquire the wealth or time to find or buy that pokemon to see the valuation of it plummet.

Edited by Bestfriends
clarification
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17 minutes ago, Bestfriends said:

All shinies have a novelty to them. Thus, this suggestion may tarnish their rarity which would decrease their valuation. Some people may like the common shinies like Pidgey and others may like the super rare shinies like the Johto starters. Chaining could make shinies a lot easier to obtain which could break their valuations. Shiny Pidgey could sell for about 25k or less.

 

A lot of people enjoy shiny Gligar (I have no ownership in that shiny, but I know a person that had one) and you can find that in a grass field. It would be an awful sight for some people who have taken years to acquire the wealth or time to find or buy that pokemon to see the valuation of it plummet.

Gligar is a rare pokemon, so the rarer pokemon would be more difficult to chain. And like I said, not EVERY pokemon would be chainable, thus the rarity wouldn't be tarnished entirely.

Also, you seem to forget(or aren't familiar with) the fact that when chaining shiny rates don't noticeably improve until you're about 30-40 pokemon into the chain. And it's really easy to run into a pokemon that's not in the chain that'll break it. So shiny pidgeys would NOT be 25k.

Edited by BoltBlades12
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1 hour ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Gligar is a rare pokemon, so the rarer pokemon would be more difficult to chain. And like I said, not EVERY pokemon would be chainable, thus the rarity wouldn't be tarnished entirely.

Also, you seem to forget(or aren't familiar with) the fact that when chaining shiny rates don't noticeably improve until you're about 30-40 pokemon into the chain. And it's really easy to run into a pokemon that's not in the chain that'll break it. So shiny pidgeys would NOT be 25k.

The population of PokeMMO would make it easier to have a bigger inventory of shinies. One person searching for Pidgey may not do much, but hundreds of people who may have the need to pay for something in game could dash over to a quick shiny like Pidgey or Rattata with the chaining method. I am well aware of the chaining process (that was how I got my shiny Graveler in Pokemon X and Y), but I don't think that we should risk our economy on something like an influx of shiny Pidgeys and Rattatas.

 

Edited by Bestfriends
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12 minutes ago, Bestfriends said:

The population of PokeMMO would make it easier to have a bigger inventory of shinies. One person searching for Pidgey may not do much, but hundreds of people who may have the need to pay for something in game could dash over to a quick shiny like Pidgey or Rattata with the chaining method. I am well aware of the chaining process (that was how I got my shiny Graveler in Pokemon X and Y), but I don't think that we should risk our economy on something like an influx of shiny Pidgeys and Rattatas.

 

Considering the fact that the shiny rate in MMO is 1/30k if I'm not mistaken, it wouldn't be a risk at all. Even if the shiny rate due to chaining only goes up to 1/15k, still no real risk.

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3 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Considering the fact that the shiny rate in MMO is 1/30k if I'm not mistaken, it wouldn't be a risk at all. Even if the shiny rate due to chaining only goes up to 1/15k, still no real risk.

on what are you basing impact of lowering shiny rate?

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3 minutes ago, Toupi said:

on what are you basing impact of lowering shiny rate?

If MMO's full odds shiny rate were similar to the main games(1/8192), then I'd see where you guys are coming at with risk of value. But 1/30k? Even if chaining raised the rate to 1/15k, that's still only half of the initial shiny rate. Point is, shiny rate in mmo is so low(not to mention unfair) that chaining wouldn't truly affect anything negatively

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There is a differences between Single Player and MMO titles.

We assume 1/30k rate is currently what most ppl experience but it could be wrong since this value was given looong time ago. Right now, with current rate there are 49 pages of shiny pokemon on GTL. That's a pretty big number for something that's very rare in design. The more there are shinnies the less valuable they are and the less difference between normal and shiny variants. Would be shame to degenerate shinnies from end goal to simple recolor

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boltblades you have to understand, you're just making shit up off the top of your head. You don't really know how many shinies are being generated per month by this rate right now, what the impact on the economy is right now etc. And you don't know the impact it would have on the economy if the shiny rate changed from 1/30 to 1/15 it would at least double the rate of shinies and double how fast they degrade in value. and I doubt u are thinking of the health of the game overall. You're just making an assumption that 1/30k is an insane rate and that nobody will find shinies with it or something. You're basically just saying nothing because the foundation of what u are trying to say doesn't exist.

t

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I don't care much about shinies and I've never encountered one with about 2k hours of gameplay (and that's on my main only)

But.. Uhm lemme put some math here real quick
I'm gonna ignore ALL my other encounters and focus on my recent EV training
I've trained 50 mons with exp share on 4 at a time... So that's 50/4 = 12.5 times
I've got them all to 510 EV points.. So that's at best, 26 sweet scents for two stats = 52 hordes encounters = 260 pokemons encountered per time
so I've encountered in the past 3 days 3250 pokemons minimum


Naturally, like with the 50 comp mons before them, and the 50 before those, I didn't encounter a single shiny. Not once.
And I'm amazed how many shinies exist on the GTL tbh, cause I must be unlucky af xD
I'd assume ever since I started the game and since I have 6 comp boxes full that I AT LEAST encountered 20k+ pokemons

With how many there are on the GTL, one thinks I met one shiny mon at least, but I didn't.

Again I really don't care about shinies and to be frank I consider most of them an alternative worse design to the original mon.
But after seeing the method of chaining online, I'd say it's fair to make shinies more accessible.
They don't have to be minimum 1 mil. and you don't have to use a certain method to meet one.

And to answer the last point of "people seeing their past effort being meaningless", this is a game.
In real life people lose money just because they decided to change some currency from one to another one day before a big drop happens in the other.
People in a game should be happy they have that mon of their dreams and not feel a grudge when others get it. It doesn't decrease its importance and value to you,
but your envy would. xD

Edited by MHkaserz
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1 hour ago, MHkaserz said:

And to answer the last point of "people seeing their past effort being meaningless", this is a game.
In real life people lose money just because they decided to change some currency from one to another one day before a big drop happens in the other.
People in a game should be happy they have that mon of their dreams and not feel a grudge when others get it. It doesn't decrease its importance and value to you,
but your envy would. xD

And they are free to acquire it. If shiny variant is so important for them then go ahead and work for it, grind like a zombie or find a seller. Having shiny wont make you stronger or won't give you an advantage, it's just for show off. What's the point of showing something off if everyone have that already.  

This is multiplayer game, not a single player. There are things behind skill wall, there are skill behind luck wall so they seam more important/valuable. With argument like "life is bad i want fun in the game" you could also complain you didn't win tournament or you want specific vanity but they are expensive. If everyone is powerful no one is, same goes with power fantasy.

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1- As I said, shinies shouldn't be exclusive to grinding in a certain method, if they have a percentage they should appear at any moment, no one has to be a zombie for it.
2- No one said it should be common? I said it should be more accessible, since it seems they have weird restrictions on who can get a shiny.
3- Getting an OT shiny, you can show that off, but it isn't easy to get. Needing to show off is sad though.
4- Most shinies out there now are Unknown OT or bought with "zombies" OT on them, nothing to show off anyway.
5- Again I'm not saying they should be common, I simply said they should be more accessible without obscure conditions for encountering them.
6- You're going off topic, a tournament requires both skill and luck, that's rng and it exists in every game to keep the "gameplay" interesting.
7- Vanity items is for money that can't be grinded in game, unless they are on the GTL.
8- Can people obtain shinies with real money? Cause your comparison makes no sense to me.
9- If you say by using donating tickets and their better ratio, I've used those several times for a long duration each time and ya, no shinies encountered. xD
0- That "powerful" statement... This community can't grow if that's how the "powerful" people in it approach things.

Final piece of math.. Shinies should come in the rate 1/8192, right?
so probability of NOT encountering one is 8191/8192.
Now if you studied probabilities the chance of that happening 20k times in a row is
(8191/8192)^20000 = 8.7%. (meaning meeting a shiny next encounter is 91.3% possible)
Ok, I could be just unlucky, let's try that with higher numbers like the infamous 30k...
= 2.5% to not encounter a shiny. (meaning meeting a shiny next encounter is 97.5% possible)
And upon having 40k encounters without a single shiny one.
Your chance of getting a shiny should be 99.25% on your next encounter.
After that if you do get a shiny your encounter chance should go down to
oh did you get it? ding ding ding  0.01% chance that the next one is a shiny.
So it'd be still rare, just not as impossible as it may seem to people who play the game without  specifically hunting.

At that point there is no such thing as "luck wall", just bad implementation.

Edited by MHkaserz
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4 hours ago, MHkaserz said:

1- As I said, shinies shouldn't be exclusive to grinding in a certain method, if they have a percentage they should appear at any moment, no one has to be a zombie for it.
2- No one said it should be common? I said it should be more accessible, since it seems they have weird restrictions on who can get a shiny.
5- Again I'm not saying they should be common, I simply said they should be more accessible without obscure conditions for encountering them.

There is no method, restrictions or conditions to get shiny(or at least we dont know about it). You buy ticket in RNG lottery and check the result. If you really want to win lottery you buy another ticket, simple as that

5 hours ago, MHkaserz said:

9- If you say by using donating tickets and their better ratio, I've used those several times for a long duration each time and ya, no shinies encountered. xD

If i were making two bets with you, one with 5% to win and the other one with 20% to win and you won first but lost second you would also be sure i lied and the second bet had lower chances? 

4 hours ago, MHkaserz said:

0- That "powerful" statement... This community can't grow if that's how the "powerful" people in it approach things.

I think you get me wrong here. By Power Fantasy i meant type of fantasy in which you are powerful. For example beating best trainers in the region and becoming the very best. It can be handed for free in single player but in multi, players are competing with each other. Yes, powerful not only means literally powerful but also having immense wealth etc. Having something which makes you feel "better" than everyone else, in general.

Im not sure if we have any "powerful people" here in PokeMMO.

5 hours ago, MHkaserz said:

3- Getting an OT shiny, you can show that off, but it isn't easy to get. Needing to show off is sad though.
4- Most shinies out there now are Unknown OT or bought with "zombies" OT on them, nothing to show off anyway.
6- You're going off topic, a tournament requires both skill and luck, that's rng and it exists in every game to keep the "gameplay" interesting.
7- Vanity items is for money that can't be grinded in game, unless they are on the GTL.
8- Can people obtain shinies with real money? Cause your comparison makes no sense to me.

It makes no sense because it's not about grind or money. Those are examples of rewards in the game.

-You feel better because you won that tourny, wow was hard but you made it, you rule!

-You feel better because you bought that sweat hat and everyone can see how lit you look!

-You feel better because you got that rare pokemon recolor(which gives nothing aside from aesthetics), wow you're awesome!

Now imagine "tourny" against dumb NPCs which you won while watching Netflix, Cheap hat that is handed to you at start town and everyone having tabs with pokemon recolors. Suddenly they lost value. No matter if it's acquired by skill,money,yen or luck, the less there is the more it's valuable. 

If you truly don't want to show off your shiny to the others then simply switch shiny sprite with the normal one in the mod and voilà, you have your shiny

4 hours ago, MHkaserz said:

Final piece of math.. Shinies should come in the rate 1/8192, right?

Maybe, there is no official information about it

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1- Have you encountered any shinies while not "hunting" for one then? Cause I sure haven't.
2- Not really; that's RNG, but is it really RNG? Cause I have high doubts about how it is implemented.
3- Yes, something that you worked for obv would make you feel better. You're missing the point though.
4- You still don't have to work hard for shinies, if you had a high number of encounters as you play
through probability like I explained you would and should meet a shiny while you aren't hunting for one. (which goes against the admins' policies it seems)
5 :-
    - We are not discussing changing a tourny system. (I played a few, got to semi finals twice, nothing special)
    - We are not discussing changing the coloring system. (It makes sense as it is)
    - And like we all get a chance to join a tourny and win, and we all have access to buy that cool hat, 
        we should all have the same chance to meet shinies the more mons we encounter generally (and not through hunting).
    - They just made the system so those who literally play for hours every single day have better chances.
    - I will not believe it is completely random until I see the code, which they will never share. xD
6- No I don't want to show off anything really, cause showing off means I need others' approval, I don't. xD
7- There is, and it seems to be 1/27k, 
they are intentionally ignoring "probability" rules to make sure alternatives don't abuse shiny hunting.

 


I would say it is better to deny shinies from being on the GTL tbh and keeping the odds for each player as single player games do.
Cause the main problem they have is the "economy" one.

So what are shinies for? Showing off? Feeling better? Money grind? Or Just to sell more donation tickets?
Feels like a rotten system tbh. 

Anyway seems like they have a certain mindset about this matter, reasoning won't get anyone anywhere when it comes to this.

Edited by MHkaserz
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1 hour ago, MHkaserz said:

1- Have you encountered any shinies while not "hunting" for one then? Cause I sure haven't.

Yes, all of them, as a bonus I don't buy donators. I just don't like grinding. Don't giving a damn about shiny helps, you play game as it is and catch happy accidents.

 

1 hour ago, MHkaserz said:

6- No I don't want to show off anything really, cause showing off means I need others' approval, I don't. xD

You dont need others approval to show something off

1 hour ago, MHkaserz said:

I played a few, got to semi finals twice, nothing special

You have my approval

 

1 hour ago, MHkaserz said:

5 :-
    - We are not discussing changing a tourny system. (I played a few, got to semi finals twice, nothing special)
    - We are not discussing changing the coloring system. (It makes sense as it is)
    - And like we all get a chance to join a tourny and win, and we all have access to buy that cool hat, 
        we should all have the same chance to meet shinies the more mons we encounter generally (and not through hunting).
    - They just made the system so those who literally play for hours every single day have better chances.
    - I will not believe it is completely random until I see the code, which they will never share. xD

I listed them as an examples of rewards. I didn't claim you want something like this. I thought it was clear in my previous post. Just wanted to show you how value can decrease because of availability.

 

2 hours ago, MHkaserz said:

2- Not really; that's RNG, but is it really RNG? Cause I have high doubts about how it is implemented.
4- You still don't have to work hard for shinies, if you had a high number of encounters as you play
through probability like I explained you would and should meet a shiny while you aren't hunting for one. (which goes against the admins' policies it seems)

    - They just made the system so those who literally play for hours every single day have better chances.
    - I will not believe it is completely random until I see the code, which they will never share. xD
7- There is, and it seems to be 1/27k, 
they are intentionally ignoring "probability" rules to make sure alternatives don't abuse shiny hunting.

I would say it is better to deny shinies from being on the GTL tbh and keeping the odds for each player as single player games do.
Cause the main problem they have is the "economy" one.
Feels like a rotten system tbh. 

So what exactly chaining or even reducing shiny rate to 1/15k gonna do? It would still be a slim chance, you would still claim you should find a bunch of shinnies already, you would still want to see code for a proof.

 

For me what you truly want is more transparency in shiny encounter rate. I fail to see how implementing chaining or reducing rate would change that.

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14 minutes ago, Toupi said:

For me what you truly want is more transparency in shiny encounter rate. I fail to see how implementing chaining or reducing rate would change that.

And yet you claim many people "fail" to see how implementing chaining or another method of obtaining shinies would affect the economy. Do you know why? Because it wouldn't. Even with the 1/8192 chance, that's still a pain in the ass rate to hunt shinies for, let alone 1/30k. But the difference is, the 1/8192 is the initial shiny rate for all pokemon games(with the exception of games xy and beyond). So if the odds were to be raised to about 1/15k or there existed a method that'd allow the rate to hit 1/15k(not permenantly, but temporarily), it wouldn't hurt jack.

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46 minutes ago, BoltBlades12 said:

And yet you claim many people "fail" to see how implementing chaining or another method of obtaining shinies would affect the economy. Do you know why? Because it wouldn't. Even with the 1/8192 chance, that's still a pain in the ass rate to hunt shinies for, let alone 1/30k. But the difference is, the 1/8192 is the initial shiny rate for all pokemon games(with the exception of games xy and beyond). So if the odds were to be raised to about 1/15k or there existed a method that'd allow the rate to hit 1/15k(not permenantly, but temporarily), it wouldn't hurt jack.

So you are saying, decreasing shiny rate would not increase amount of shinnies in the game? Im confused 

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- Well in that case lucky you xD
- Who are you showing off to then, mate? 
- Oh ya one of them was memorable cause I beat the 1st on the ladder of OU in an UU tourny and I beat the 20th in the next round, other one I got lucky with flinches xD
- Ya I know, but you're using them as build ups to lead to the point, while they are completely irrelevant and in-comparable to the subject at hand.
It is like saying, "look if vegetables can get expensive, so can apples". 
- Value decreases in the GTL? Ya that's true. Value decreases as a rare thing to have? Not so much, (Since it'll still be rare, just not ridiculously rare)
I have seen many people walk with that crazy Red Gyrados (doesn't make it less impressive), something rare would be like that shiny Volcarona, only saw one.
- I never said anything about implementing chaining, I know the post suggests that, but I believe what the person wants mainly is to be able to get a shiny more often,
I believe, the method they use to "selectively" decide who can get shinies is unfair, and until proven wrong, my argument stands.
- Also if you read the "math" I posted and didn't ignore it, I shouldn't have a bunch of shinies, just one encounter. max two.

- I'd like to add that the "independent odds" the admin mentions don't apply in computer science and I'm sure HE knows that, since there is no REAL RNG
and everyone in our field knows that, you have to use many RNGs together
and get the result that appeared most to maybe hope it is random and not affected by the cached memory.
- You have experienced getting paralyzed many times in a row no?  Landing a low acc move too often? Getting 7 flinches in a row? Ya that's a faulty RNG implementation
and if it is faulty with big numbers like 30% and 80%, how do you think it'd be with 1/27k?
(I had 5 para hax in a row 3 times in one run until I restarted my game, the chances of that happening with "independent odds" is 0.002% for each time)

- Last but no least. Chaining isn't gonna hurt anyone but the sales of the Gift-Shop, and the prides of ...immature people. xD

I'm glad we had a good discussion here, wish it ends on good terms as well, have fun everyone.

Edited by MHkaserz
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