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Shiny Trading? Where?


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6 minutes ago, Hao said:

This will not help the shiny market and will cause the vanity market to collapse. I agree with awk.

Market right now is like this. Snipe shiny, sell it as fast as you can for vanity or vanity+cash and dont accept any shiny in addition to them. Please give reasoning to your words cause from my prespective theres none.

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17 minutes ago, awkways said:

I'm not the sorry one here begging the devs to change the game to benefit me.

How will it benefit me when I also have limited vanities? You really are daft thinking this will affect thousands of players because there are thousands of limited vanities right even when they are stocked by a few players like ourselves. 

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5 minutes ago, Hyperchaser said:

Market right now is like this. Snipe shiny, sell it as fast as you can for vanity or vanity+cash and dont accept any shiny in addition to them. Please give reasoning to your words cause from my prespective theres none.

Anyone that wants to tell me the market is not like this right now, your're just being a hypocrite. As simple as that.

Edited by Goku
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11 hours ago, awkways said:

I think you don't understand what limited actually means.

 

They tried that with Kyu hat and knight helmet but ultimately it amounts to Staff being liars and the players lose faith in the gift shop items they're buying. They SOLD them (for real money) as limited items, advertising them as never to return. Players pay for these because they will never return and mainly only buy them as an investment as a result. This is why they're tagged as limited. The supply is limited and will remain limited.

 

Ultimately, this thread is just a bunch of people complaining because they don't understand (or don't like) supply and demand.

 

Limited vanities will continue to rise in value with more players because there is continually more of a demand and competition for the same limited supply. Shinys will continue to fall with more players because they are unlimited and having 10 shiny charmanders being sold at the same time makes more competition to sell for lower prices. If you're just now noticing this then it's your own fault. This is nothing new or surprising. Everyone saw limited vanities rising for years and that's why there's a million flaming skulls on the market, a lot of people invested big.

 

Both the ideas proposed here are stupid. You can't make certain shinys limited so some players don't lose money. Shinys were never intended to be limited or ever advertised to be limited. You always knew that some randoms can go hunt for 10 mins and get the same exact shiny you spent a year working to buy. That's a risk you signed up for, now deal with it. On the other hand, If you didn't invest in limited vanities (with in-game money or RP or trading or w/e) you knew you were going to lose out on a potentially big investment in the future. That doesn't mean they should be re-added vanities because you want them again without having to fight for the limited supply that is left along with everyone else.

 

At the end of the day, shiny trading and vanities have nothing to do with each other. They're two separate markets. Just because shinys are falling and you feel salty that vanities aren't doesn't mean that changing the vanity market would somehow magically help shinys hold value. If you returned all the limited vanitys to gift shops tomorrow to stay forever, shinys will continue to fall at the same exact rate. It's just supply and demand affecting 2 separate markets quicker than in the past because there's more players.
 

This post was well constructed and basically explains the reasoning behind most the questions in this thread. In order to make shiny Pokemon valuable again there needs to be a better sink for the valuable ones (nobody is using male Charmander as fodder). But the way to do this would be to have them be limited, just like those vanities you guys hate so much. Unfortunately making shiny Pokemon limited is a terrible idea because as I'm sure everyone in this thread can agree, nobody want's to lose their precious shiny after x amount of time. This whole comparison to VanityMMO is ridiculous on the otherhand as shiny prices and vanity prices do not affect each other, they are independent. Lowering Vanity prices by no longer making them limited would not suddenly make shiny Pokemon more valuable because there are still more and more shiny Pokemon being found everyday.

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12 minutes ago, Hyperchaser said:

Market right now is like this. Snipe shiny, sell it as fast as you can for vanity or vanity+cash and dont accept any shiny in addition to them. Please give reasoning to your words cause from my prespective theres none.

The value of vanity has risen sharply, Reason: it is safe.

Limited vanity sold again does not help the shiny market,Reason: because they are safe, not really want them.

The real solution is:How to revive the market of shiny instead of completely destroying all markets.

I understand what you want, shiny is valued, not to convert them to vanity to preserve value.

 

I am sorry that my English is not good. I hope you can understand it.

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1 minute ago, Goku said:

How will it benefit me when I also have limited vanities? You really are daft thinking this will affect thousands of players because there are thousands of limited vanities right even when they are stocked by a few players like ourselves. 

When I mentioned thousands of players I was referring to the suggestion of limiting the amount of new shinys, which affects every single player. Try again & read closer.

 

Again, changing the vanity market won't have a single affect on the shiny market. Even if they put all the limited vanities back in the shop (in the process ruining their future limited vanity sales), shinys will continue to drop at the exact same pace and instead people will only want to sell for pure yen. What's your point in trying to trash an unrelated market that's doing well other than your personal preference? Please answer that.

 

Go read my first post that you skipped and I won't have to repeat myself - it was pretty damn clear.

 

Sorry if you can't understand supply and demand.

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23 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

This post was well constructed and basically explains the reasoning behind most the questions in this thread. In order to make shiny Pokemon valuable again there needs to be a better sink for the valuable ones (nobody is using male Charmander as fodder). But the way to do this would be to have them be limited, just like those vanities you guys hate so much. Unfortunately making shiny Pokemon limited is a terrible idea because as I'm sure everyone in this thread can agree, nobody want's to lose their precious shiny after x amount of time. This whole comparison to VanityMMO is ridiculous on the otherhand as shiny prices and vanity prices do not affect each other, they are independent. Lowering Vanity prices by no longer making them limited would not suddenly make shiny Pokemon more valuable because there are still more and more shiny Pokemon being found everyday.

Limiting shinies would mean to be loosing in it after an amount of time? I never suggested that, or limit label on vanities mean u will loose it after a given period of time? What all this post is about is how the shiny market is rolling and why players are buying vanities. I have spoken already about that and its clear we got 2 different opinions in this post. Comparison to Vanitymmo is not ridicoulus since ur best goal would be to own a vanity in a pokemon game. I am still waiting for suggestions on how can the limitation of the numbers of shinies can be succeeded since they have insanely increased. That if anybody agrees with me and think that its needed. Also we know what supply and demand is we dont need someone to point that out so the real problem can be covered. Its a shame that holding a vanity will make u rich but holding a shiny will bunkrapt you. Also lets not forget it was Staff's idea to  put limiteds in pvp boxes, and because of a minority that cried out about it they got removed. It was wrong to be removed and it should be back. Vanities and Shiny pokemons are 2 different things we are all well aware, but saying they have nothing to do with each other is something only a player that has never traded would say. Since every player has a number of pokeyen and is using it to afford just 1 or 2 limited vanities doesnt that mean he wont have enough to buy a shiny?

Edited by Hyperchaser
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21 minutes ago, awkways said:

When I mentioned thousands of players I was referring to the suggestion of limiting the amount of new shinys, which affects every single player. Try again & read closer.

 

Again, changing the vanity market won't have a single affect on the shiny market. Even if they put all the limited vanities back in the shop (in the process ruining their future limited vanity sales), shinys will continue to drop at the exact same pace and instead people will only want to sell for pure yen. What's your point in trying to trash an unrelated market that's doing well other than your personal preference? Please answer that.

 

Go read my first post that you skipped and I won't have to repeat myself - it was pretty damn clear.

 

Sorry if you can't understand supply and demand.

Obviously that "unrelated "market is having a big af toll on the shiny market. I mean look at kicco, traded a porygon..one of the most prestigious shinies for a labcoat??? How can you say that it's not affecting it whatsoever? People are getting rid of shinies at ridiculous prices which damages their value in order to buy "stable" value vanities that just keeps rising by the day and hoarding them and not selling for other shinies or even considering shiny trades. As in right now from what chaser said there is no shiny market.  Like a item that was 5-10 dollars in the shop is now worth 100+mil and people throwing all their shinies at one just for the hope of getting it. That's bs to me. I will just invest 150mil in lilipads and in 2 years when I come back they be worth 40mil+ a piece.

 

23 minutes ago, Hyperchaser said:

Also we know what supply and demand is we dont need someone to point that out so the real problem can be covered. Its a shame that holding a vanity will make u rich but holding a shiny will bunkrapt you.

Couldn't have said it better myself. 

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Difference between limited edition vanities and shinies is the supply.

Static Supply for limited edition vanities. (Closer to a negative supply due to bans/players quit)

Potential infinite Supply for shinies over time.

Growing playerbase means more are found every day.

Solution: limit the amount of shinies to be found daily serverwide to manage the supply.

Edited by Tyrone
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8 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

Difference between limited edition vanities and shinies is the supply.

Static Supply for limited edition vanities. (Closer to a negative supply due to bans/players quit)

Potential infinite Supply for shinies over time.

Growing playerbase means more are found every day.

Solution: limit the amount of shinies to be found daily serverwide to manage the supply.

Finally a suggestion. 

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3 minutes ago, Goku said:

Obviously that "unrelated "market is having a big af toll on the shiny market. I mean look at kicco, traded a porygon..one of the most prestigious shinies for a labcoat??? How can you say that it's not affecting it whatsoever? People are getting rid of shinies at ridiculous prices which damages their value in order to buy "stable" value vanities that just keeps rising by the day and hoarding them and not selling for other shinies or even considering shiny trades. As in right now from what chaser said there is no shiny market.  Like a item that was 5-10 dollars in the shop is now worth 100+mil and people throwing all their shinies at one just for the hope of getting it.

K so lets follow your idea and screw limited vanities to the point they're not worth shit or remove them completely from the game. The whole shiny market continues to crash. Then you'll blame it on what? Yen?

 

5 minutes ago, Goku said:

I will just invest 150mil in lilipads and in 2 years when I come back they be worth 40mil+ a piece. 

Do it. This was always an option. Even with the vanities you're crying about being "overpriced" now. It's the smart thing to do because there's a limited supply.

Now imagine you did sink all your money into them and when they're finally worth some real money, some guys come complaining that comps aren't worth as much anymore and as a fix they think they should put lillipads back in stores because they aren't dropping. This is what your whole argument amounts to and it's straight up childish reasoning.

The real solution is to somehow fix the shiny market itself. If you can't see that by now idk how to dumb it down further. Good luck.

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16 minutes ago, awkways said:

K so lets follow your idea and screw limited vanities to the point they're not worth shit or remove them completely from the game. The whole shiny market continues to crash. Then you'll blame it on what? Yen?

 

Do it. This was always an option. Even with the vanities you're crying about being "overpriced" now. It's the smart thing to do because there's a limited supply.

Now imagine you did sink all your money into them and when they're finally worth some real money, some guys come complaining that comps aren't worth as much anymore and as a fix they think they should put lillipads back in stores because they aren't dropping. This is what your whole argument amounts to and it's straight up childish reasoning.

The real solution is to somehow fix the shiny market itself. If you can't see that by now idk how to dumb it down further. Good luck.

You're so self centered it's astonishing. I'm not suggesting to screw limited vanities, I'm just saying to tweak them a bit. A vanity being worth 100+mil is too OP for the current economy and it's affects on the shiny market. Yes I agree we need a solution for the shiny market and this will lead to it. Tyrone didn't state a bad idea but the thing is shiny hunters will be discouraged because no one will know as of when the shiny limit for the day is reached, still a good idea imo.

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45 minutes ago, Goku said:

You're so self centered it's astonishing. I'm not suggesting to screw limited vanities, I'm just saying to tweak them a bit. A vanity being worth 100+mil is too OP for the current economy and it's affects on the shiny market. Yes I agree we need a solution for the shiny market and this will lead to it. Tyrone didn't state a bad idea but the thing is shiny hunters will be discouraged because no one will know as of when the shiny limit for the day is reached, still a good idea imo.

Changing the vanity market will have no effect on the shiny market. Whether they're too high in value or worth nothing, both extremes have 0 effect on the shiny market. Tweaking them slightly is a middle ground and also does nothing. Shinys will continue to fall in every single vanity suggestion of yours because vanities don't affect the growing supply of the shiny market. No matter what change you suggest for the vanity market it won't stop shiny prices from falling. This literally can't get any simpler. Since you clearly seem to think otherwise, tell me how making limited vanities more available, or making any changes in the vanity market at all will make the shiny price rise back up to where you feel there isn't a "problem".

 

Your whole argument is that players don't want to buy shinys because their price keeps falling, and instead people are investing in alternatives, such as limited vanities. This doesn't mean that changing vanities will help the shiny market stable out and make people want to buy shinys more/again. Making limited vanities unlimited only ruins the limited vanity market. Shinys continue to fall and your problem persists, still no one wants to buy your "rare" shiny, or invest in them in general.

 

Just because players are looking for an alternative to shinys doesn't mean the alternative itself is the cause of the issue. It's the shiny market alone's problem. Your suggestions to make limited vanities unlimited again won't fix or even slightly help your problem.

Edited by awkways
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1 hour ago, Hyperchaser said:

Limiting shinies would mean to be loosing in it after an amount of time? I never suggested that, or limit label on vanities mean u will loose it after a given period of time? What all this post is about is how the shiny market is rolling and why players are buying vanities. I have spoken already about that and its clear we got 2 different opinions in this post. Comparison to Vanitymmo is not ridicoulus since ur best goal would be to own a vanity in a pokemon game. I am still waiting for suggestions on how can the limitation of the numbers of shinies can be succeeded since they have insanely increased. That if anybody agrees with me and think that its needed. Also we know what supply and demand is we dont need someone to point that out so the real problem can be covered. Its a shame that holding a vanity will make u rich but holding a shiny will bunkrapt you. Also lets not forget it was Staff's idea to  put limiteds in pvp boxes, and because of a minority that cried out about it they got removed. It was wrong to be removed and it should be back. Vanities and Shiny pokemons are 2 different things we are all well aware, but saying they have nothing to do with each other is something only a player that has never traded would say. Since every player has a number of pokeyen and is using it to afford just 1 or 2 limited vanities doesnt that mean he wont have enough to buy a shiny?

Ok so if the goal of this thread is to find a way to raise a shiny Pokemon's value then the only way to do so is to limit their supply. This can be done the way Tyrone mentioned by making a daily cap of how many shiny's can be found, by capping how many of each species can exist in total, by making them "lose their shiny" overtime etc. These are all ways that their price can be increased however the problem is every way of limiting a shiny will greatly affect other areas of the game such as shiny hunting and in the overall scheme of things be taken as a massive nerf to majority of the playerbase. If there is a way to limit them without affecting such things, I've not thought of it nor has anybody else.

 

1 hour ago, Hyperchaser said:

Vanities and Shiny pokemons are 2 different things we are all well aware, but saying they have nothing to do with each other is something only a player that has never traded would say.

No, their sale price have nothing to do with each other. This is not my or anyone elses opinion but a fact. As I said in my previous post they are independent of each other

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30 minutes ago, awkways said:

Changing the vanity market will have no effect on the shiny market. Whether they're too high in value or worth nothing, both extremes have 0 effect on the shiny market. Tweaking them slightly is a middle ground and also does nothing. Shinys will continue to fall in every single vanity suggestion of yours because vanities don't affect the growing supply of the shiny market. No matter what change you suggest for the vanity market it won't stop shiny prices from falling. This literally can't get any simpler. Since you clearly seem to think otherwise, tell me how making limited vanities more available, or making any changes in the vanity market at all will make the shiny price rise back up to where you feel there isn't a "problem".

 

Your whole argument is that players don't want to buy shinys because their price keeps falling, and instead people are investing in alternatives, such as limited vanities. This doesn't mean that changing vanities will help the shiny market stable out and make people want to buy shinys more/again. Making limited vanities unlimited only ruins the limited vanity market. Shinys continue to fall and your problem persists, still no one wants to buy your "rare" shiny, or invest in them in general.

 

Just because players are looking for an alternative to shinys doesn't mean the alternative itself is the cause of the issue. It's the shiny market alone's problem. Your suggestions to make limited vanities unlimited again won't fix or even slightly help your problem.

Lets agree to disagree. You and me obviously don't have the same point of view, I know it will make a difference. Lets leave it at that. I'm not in the mood for another story book. Thanks.

 

 

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55 minutes ago, Goku said:

Lets agree to disagree. You and me obviously don't have the same point of view, I know it will make a difference. Lets leave it at that. I'm not in the mood for another story book. Thanks.

Np, getting tired of repeating myself to you anyway. When you actually have something to contribute to how vanity prices affect shiny prices other than what you "know", hmu.

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13 minutes ago, awkways said:

Np, getting tired of repeating myself to you anyway. When you actually have something to contribute to how vanity prices affect shiny prices other than what you "know", hmu.

Just stop bro xD. Honestly we done here. I feel the same. Explaining smth to you is like having a discussion with a wall. Irrelevant.

 

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Vanity =\= shiny. They have nothing in common, 2 different markets.

People shifting from their interest in shinies more towards vanities is ok, it's a smart move, nothing wrong with that either, I mean, I haven't bought a rare in ages.

Regarding the shiny market, everyone lost interest in it, mostly since the chinese community started popping ultra rares day after day, lowering their value a LOT. Other than that, it was everyone's doing.

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4 hours ago, Kizhaz said:

 

No, their sale price have nothing to do with each other. This is not my or anyone elses opinion but a fact. As I said in my previous post they are independent of each other

Their demand and supply is independed yea. But those limited items need to be in control as everything else in this game, as well as accesable buy a larger amount of players. Community has grown a lot bigger and old limited vanities have gone almost extinct. What we need is to find a way to give a number of supply so they cant grow wild any more.

Edited by Hyperchaser
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52 minutes ago, Hyperchaser said:

Their demand and supply is independed yea. But those limited items need to be in control as everything else in this game, as well as accesable buy a larger amount of players. Community has grown a lot bigger and old limited vanities have gone almost extinct. What we need is to find a way to give a number of supply so they cant grow wild any more.

You would like to remove the "limited" aspect of limited vanity items? Why?

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18 minutes ago, Tyrone said:

You would like to remove the "limited" aspect of limited vanity items? Why?

I dont want the limit aspect to be removed, like sell those as normal rp items in gift shop but to give a limited option to obtain them again. There are reasons im saying that, first of all because their raise in value because of monopoly will have no end in the way they exist now and almost none will be able to have them, so whats the real use of them existing in the first place? Like 5 or 10 pieces of a single vanity in a community of thousands.

Edited by Hyperchaser
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12 hours ago, Hyperchaser said:

If i wanted to do that exact same thing i would, but i find it wrong.

alpha would like to read this i think

2 hours ago, Hyperchaser said:

I dont want the limit aspect to be removed

2 hours ago, Hyperchaser said:

a limited option to obtain them again.

basically the only thing that i can understand from your last comment here is that you are mad because 10 people made a good investment buying the only pieces of a vanity back in 2013 and you don't want them to be rich just because of that lol

9 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Solution: limit the amount of shinies to be found daily serverwide to manage the supply.

this is an interesting suggestion, but i'm sure that it would destroy the gameplay for most of the shiny hunters, imagine your donator expiring in an useless day because the limit of shinies was already found before you even wake up

 

Edited by Foersterr
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38 minutes ago, Foersterr said:

basically the only thing that i can understand from your last comment here is that you are mad because 10 people made a good investment buying the only pieces of a vanity back in 2013 and you don't want them to be rich just because of that lol

So basically you don't understand anything. Here's what's up, hyperchaser got plenty of limited vanities so making a comment like that is irrelevant since he'd also lose a shit ton. 

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Once again, separated markets.


If people are now betting on vanities, it still took them a fairly BIG amount of time, to realize that a limited item, will only increase in value. Supply and demand rule.

While a shiny, will ONLY decrease in value. Supply and demand rule aswell. Now you can say, a rare shiny, lets say sudowodo, there isn't even one afaik, will hold it's value. Ok that's normal, there's 1 of a kind. Now imagine mander, there's almost a new one per week, do you think their value will remain stable if 10 are selling at any given time?

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