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Zantalar

Sweet scent usage

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So I was wondering why one use of sweet scent outside of battle effects the whole teams PP of that move, why is this done for balance purposes? All it does is attract hordes for training so to claim it's so badly nerfed for balance seems to be a stretch in my eyes, it's purely for training faster and doesn't break the game, just helps speed things along. You're only allowed 4 uses per pokemon so I don't understand how balance is at jeopardy.

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I think it's also for item farming too? I summon Garbador hordes to try and find big nuggets, and I can understand that more uses of SS could essentially speed up how much money I'm making. 

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Yes, you are right, it was a decision made out to balance - it gives leppa berry importance in the economy, as well as limits getting hordes without using them- hordes can bring you shiny pokemon as well. 

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26 minutes ago, Zantalar said:

So I was wondering why one use of sweet scent outside of battle effects the whole teams PP of that move, why is this done for balance purposes? All it does is attract hordes for training so to claim it's so badly nerfed for balance seems to be a stretch in my eyes, it's purely for training faster and doesn't break the game, just helps speed things along. You're only allowed 4 uses per pokemon so I don't understand how balance is at jeopardy.

it's pretty much to negate shiny hunting abuse. and sweet scent max pp , u are able to use 6 times

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12 hours ago, xRdZiiiN said:

it's pretty much to negate shiny hunting abuse. and sweet scent max pp , u are able to use 6 times

Finally I got an answer, that actually makes sense, wouldn't have expected shinnies to be possible in hordes but if that's the case then I understand.

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12 hours ago, Raichu4u said:

I think it's also for item farming too? I summon Garbador hordes to try and find big nuggets, and I can understand that more uses of SS could essentially speed up how much money I'm making. 

This doesn't make too much sense, not many pokemon use thief, the best ones for horde farming can't learn it, depending on the horde. 5 pokemon attacking all at once kinda makes that tactic more time consuming as the thief user can only take one item at a time. So anyone that can do it, more power to them in my opinion that's not a balance fix.

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12 hours ago, Bearminator said:

Yes, you are right, it was a decision made out to balance - it gives leppa berry importance in the economy, as well as limits getting hordes without using them- hordes can bring you shiny pokemon as well. 

Honestly I don't even know what Lepa Berry does and for one item I'd say that it would be an excessively moronic balance change, now the shiny argument is one that I fully understand and can't argue against.  I tend to like a bit of realism even in my fantasy games, but the shiny argument is not one I can really contest with in good conscience. Gonna look up what Leppa Berry does now.

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Ah so Leppa Berry is pretty much ether, that kinda makes sense, but if it was the only reason for the nerf I would be still be mad, since it isn't I'm fine.

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1 hour ago, Zantalar said:

This doesn't make too much sense, not many pokemon use thief, the best ones for horde farming can't learn it, depending on the horde. 5 pokemon attacking all at once kinda makes that tactic more time consuming as the thief user can only take one item at a time. So anyone that can do it, more power to them in my opinion that's not a balance fix.

A popular way to grind right now is to fight a Garbador horde right now who have a 5% chance of holding a big nugget. People bring in a Gothitelle with frisk to see if any of them are holding a big nugget too, and then proceed to use thief on all 5 til they get the nugget.

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26 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

A popular way to grind right now is to fight a Garbador horde right now who have a 5% chance of holding a big nugget. People bring in a Gothitelle with frisk to see if any of them are holding a big nugget too, and then proceed to use thief on all 5 til they get the nugget.

I mean I get it, but that doesn't strike me as all that fun to do as it takes painstakingly long to go through the whole battle, remember if you KO a pokemon with thief you don't get the item so you have to be careful about leveling meaning you are susceptible to damage and being poisoned. If it's that much of an issue it would be better for balance to reduce the chance for the item instead of nerfing a move that is used for other purposes. Honestly anyone patient enough to go through hordes to get items deserves it it takes way to much time for me, I lack the patience. The only valid point I've heard is the concept of shinies and even that.

 

In my eyes it's like saying "Well a few people got to really well trained and high leveled pokemon by using hordes and earthquake or surf etc, so we will halve the PP of board hitting moves." It's ridiculous, if a few items are too easy to get make them more rare, simple as that don't 'fix' it by nerfing something useful for other purposes as it alters the value of everything instead of just what you want to be altered. Best way to put it "X Y and Z needs a different value, my solution is altering a factor that changes the value of A-Z just to fix the value of X Y and Z," that's just lazy and irresponsible.

 

Think of it this way there are TM and HMs with a fixed price of over 4x their normal value for 'balance' but I can spend a 10th that price to get two items and grab a tutor to teach that same move, or about 30 minutes to do the same thing with a high lvl Pokemon with false swipe, or a low attack high defense Pokemon with thief. So for 'balance' we should either boost tutor costs or reduce TM cost, the devs make certain things take an insane amount of time to do, that shouldn't take this much time. You fix one issue while simultaneously creating 2 to 6 other issues because you don't want to put in the extra effort to fix one to 5 items and instead nerf a move that isn't even really broken.

 

That move exists to make these thing easier, nerfing it kinda defeats the purpose of the move don't you think? you need to alter the value of the specific items directly either by reducing their chance of occurring or cutting their sell value, not pulling a lazy fix it by ripping apart a perfectly good move that has other functions. This kind of sloppy work is what kills games I've seen many fall due to this, Sweet Scent is not important enough to cause anything really but it's the cumulative effect, first it's the little things then it's the big things, then suddenly no one plays the game anymore.

 

Battlefront 2 recently learned that they had to remove one of their lazy moneymaking schemes, not sure if they put it back in but the backlash was enough to scare them into removing it, that's an example of a big thing, there are many little thing's they did but that's a different story on a different game. Take the time to work on better fixes instead of quicker fixes, it's the better solution, I'm sure you guys want a game for the ages, so don't go for the easy path, or if you do let people know it's only temporary and that you will be getting a better solution when you have the time, don't justify a barely justifiable concept due to laziness, it's unbecoming.

 

Yes this is long because when I get to thinking my mind races, I'm creating a novel at the moment and I have to put in massive effort just to create certain creatures and characters, there are lot's of things to think about, I've researched certain scientific concepts just to make my mythical concepts seem real. I put the same thought process into very many things that I enjoy and I love PokeMMO quite a lot so I put major thought into these things even the ones that don't seem to matter. As of right now I'm one guy with an opinion take from it what you will, at least read it with an open mind is all I ask.

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Listen man, I would personally love it if SS only consumed one PP and was only used up on one Pokemon, but apparently the devs think that the usage of 6 SS's before visiting a pokemon center is good balance. I can't really argue with that; if I want to EV train, I usually EXP share an entire party of whatever EV's they need to save a bunch of time. I found too that the popular method of using SS against a horde of Garbadors is usually one of the best grinding methods, even while revisiting the Pokemon center, so I can't imagine what the time to cash ratio would be like if we were given even more usage of SS. And someone has previously already explained shiny rates to you.

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2 hours ago, Zantalar said:

In my eyes it's like saying "Well a few people got to really well trained and high leveled pokemon by using hordes and earthquake or surf etc, so we will halve the PP of board hitting moves." It's ridiculous, if a few items are too easy to get make them more rare, simple as that don't 'fix' it by nerfing something useful for other purposes as it alters the value of everything instead of just what you want to be altered. Best way to put it "X Y and Z needs a different value, my solution is altering a factor that changes the value of A-Z just to fix the value of X Y and Z," that's just lazy and irresponsible.

While I agree with you as a general statement, this was not the reason the move was implemented this way, as the mechanic was put in place long before it was possible to do the method mentioned above.

 

2 hours ago, Zantalar said:

That move exists to make these thing easier, nerfing it kinda defeats the purpose of the move don't you think?

It still does make things considerably easier - if it did not, nobody would bother using it; and yet it is a very popular move.

It was changed this way because it made things too easy, and took too little PP in relation to the total possible amount.

There are other avenues that could have been explored, such as lowering the amount of Sweet Scent PP that was possible to obtain, but I believe one of the reasons this method was attractive because it didn't interfere too much with needing to adjust the base numbers.

 

With Sweet Scent where it is now, we are able to sink a reasonable amount of Leppa berries in relation to how often the move is used.

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5 hours ago, Darkshade said:

While I agree with you as a general statement, this was not the reason the move was implemented this way, as the mechanic was put in place long before it was possible to do the method mentioned above.

 

It still does make things considerably easier - if it did not, nobody would bother using it; and yet it is a very popular move.

It was changed this way because it made things too easy, and took too little PP in relation to the total possible amount.

There are other avenues that could have been explored, such as lowering the amount of Sweet Scent PP that was possible to obtain, but I believe one of the reasons this method was attractive because it didn't interfere too much with needing to adjust the base numbers.

 

With Sweet Scent where it is now, we are able to sink a reasonable amount of Leppa berries in relation to how often the move is used.

On your fist point that's the impression I got from everyone commenting including from the staff member that replied. On your second point that is an incredibly good argument, I appreciate you put the effort into explaining this to me, this is one of the reasons I like this game so much, the staff cares enough to talk with their players. I see your reasoning and I think you're right I didn't think of it that way.

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3 minutes ago, Zantalar said:

this is one of the reasons I like this game so much, the staff cares enough to talk with their players

jaja

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5 hours ago, Raichu4u said:

Listen man, I would personally love it if SS only consumed one PP and was only used up on one Pokemon, but apparently the devs think that the usage of 6 SS's before visiting a pokemon center is good balance. I can't really argue with that; if I want to EV train, I usually EXP share an entire party of whatever EV's they need to save a bunch of time. I found too that the popular method of using SS against a horde of Garbadors is usually one of the best grinding methods, even while revisiting the Pokemon center, so I can't imagine what the time to cash ratio would be like if we were given even more usage of SS. And someone has previously already explained shiny rates to you.

I'm still working on getting more EXP shares and I do the same for EV training, sadly at the moment the only good EV training for attack I've currently got is mid victory road with no place to restore PP nearby and the rate combined with my luck is pretty abismal. This is more of a personal problem and I understand there are better places I just can't reach them yet. I would've liked the ability to have more team members using Sweet Scent but Darkshade convinced me that I am wrong.

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1 minute ago, Zantalar said:

I'm still working on getting more EXP shares and I do the same for EV training, sadly at the moment the only good EV training for attack I've currently got is mid victory road with no place to restore PP nearby and the rate combined with my luck is pretty abismal. This is more of a personal problem and I understand there are better places I just can't reach them yet. I would've liked the ability to have more team members using Sweet Scent but Darkshade convinced me that I am wrong.

Honestly, don't bother EV training before the Elite 4. I just played through the storyline as is with an okay team, and then focused on EV training after while using the EV reducing berries as well.

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12 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

Honestly, don't bother EV training before the Elite 4. I just played through the storyline as is with an okay team, and then focused on EV training after while using the EV reducing berries as well.

I've beaten the Elite four but the new area didn't have any good attack EV training areas, Starting to think that pattern bush is much more efficient, same distance from PC but always has 10 yield per.

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4 hours ago, Raichu4u said:

Try this guide. It shows the most optimal places to train for each stat.
 

 

I already have that site saved on my desktop I use it all the time.

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