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Kimikozen

OU Viability Rankings

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I'd want to take a minute to nominate Golduck to the A+ rank, at the very least. Golduck is amongst the most splashable Pokemon in the whole game due to its game-defining Cloud Nine ability. This ability allows Golduck to beat any weather team Pokemon without any problems, making it the most valuable asset to any OU team anyone has ever had. Actually, no, you can soon see that Golduck will win basically any Pokemon in the game and should be close to suspect worthiness.

 

First of all, we need to discuss what is a "standard Golduck set". The answer is that there is none you fucking idiot. Golduck can do literally anything you want it to do. Who the hell told you to just 252/252 a Golduck in Speed and Sp. Atk and call it a day? And to discuss what moves Golduck has, well it has Hydro Pump, Scald, Ice Beam, Focus Blast, Hidden Power Electric, Hidden Power Grass, Hidden Power Dragon, Hidden Power Ground, Hidden Power Poison, Psyshock, Encore, Substitute, Protect, Toxic, Psych Up, Me First, Calm Mind... If you aren't still seeing how Golduck absolutely demolishes the tier, then let me explain.

 

 

First of all, weather Pokemon - the main selling point of Golduck:

 

Often you can hear Golduck getting criticized for not being actually a reliable counter to Tyranitar and Excadrill. Well, those people have no fucking idea what they're talking about. Calcs below:

 

252+ Atk Life Orb Excadrill Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 184+ Def Golduck: 113-134 (60.4 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

76 SpA Golduck Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Excadrill: 186-218 (100 - 117.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 92 Def Golduck: 157-186 (83.9 - 99.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 SpA Golduck Focus Blast vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar: 176-208 (100.5 - 118.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

As you can clearly see, Golduck can switch in without any problems with so little defensive investment and taking virtually no damage at all and then beating them back with its mega-powerful Hydro Pump/Focus Blast. What did you say? How does Golduck outspeed and kill? Tailwind, you idiot. It's generation 5! Get on with the times and start using it.

 

 

Well, how does Golduck beat rain? It demolishes it. Absolutely shuts down Pelipper. Have fun missing those Hurricanes. 

 

Watch Golduck demolish Pelipper: 

 

252 SpA Magnet Golduck Hidden Power Electric vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Pelipper: 180-212 (107.7 - 126.9%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

 

Well, how does the more notorious rain sweepers manage Golduck?

 

252+ SpA Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golduck: 118-141 (76.1 - 90.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

-2 252+ SpA Kingdra Draco Meteor vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Golduck: 58-70 (37.4 - 45.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

+1 252+ SpA Golduck Hidden Power Dragon vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kingdra: 94-112 (62.6 - 74.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

As you can see, Kingdra is quite horrible against Golduck. Golduck negates rain giving any speed boosts to Kingdra, which Golduck can easily tank without any investment. All Golduck needs to do is wear a pinch HP berry and set up Calm Mind and hit back with HP Dragon. And maybe win a speed tie, but in what world is Kingdra Timid? With max entry hazards Golduck easily demolishes Kingdra!

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Kabutops Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 12 Def Golduck: 154-183 (82.3 - 97.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

232+ SpA Golduck Hidden Power Grass vs. 0 HP / 4 SpD Kabutops: 156-188 (115.5 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

Nice try Kabutops, come again. Oh and do I need to remind you about the significance of Tailwind?

 

Sun teams are an absolute joke, do we even need to go there?

 

Then if we look at some individual Pokemon in OU, Golduck demolishes them all.

 

Against Chansey: Just run Sub + Disable + Calm Mind + Psyshock

Against Mienshao: Double protect, works every time I promise

Against Hydreigon: Idk, freeze it or something

Against Reuniclus: See above

Against Ferrothorn: You thought I was only limited to HP Dragon/Grass/Electric? Oh how wrong you are.

Against Gengar: Choice Scarfed/Tailwinded Me First on a Shadow Ball

 

In conclusion, there's no sure ways to beat a Golduck due to its incredible versatility and its ability to modify itself to every imaginable role. The only downside to Golduck is that it can't be everything I listed here at once, but let's be honest that's just a minor detail in the big picture. Actually, straight up forfeiting against opposing Golduck will sometimes be the most reasonable solution to your problems.

 

Edited by OrangeManiac

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8 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

 

 

XD 

I have only one problem, YOU FORGOT SYNCRONOISE! How else will you hit Swamp, Kingdra and Ludicolo! (and not need all these different Hidden powers)
Though good humor, thanks for the laugh xD

Edited by MHkaserz

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Coming here again to suggest Togekiss on S rank again.

Can break through defensive cores with ease using Heal Bell and while "unreliable", you're very unlikely to be unlucky with it and get punished heavily.

Can also mess with offense with twave, the sub set and scarf set.

Bulky enough to live most attacks and either heal up or set up.

Has a spammable STAB that requires very little support to cover with.

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37 minutes ago, suigin said:

Has a spammable STAB that requires very little support to cover with.

1

I see you started to see the truth by now and realized the power of exspeed Kiss.

Edited by pachima

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Forretress肯定有问题。

它出现在B Rank和B-Rank中。

而  Venemoth在C +等级应该叫Venomoth。

不过,干得好!

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Posted (edited)

I would like to also suggest a few changes, although this thread seems dead: 

 

Togekiss: A- -> A+

There is a reason why its own thread gets far more attention than this one. To read up on its strengths look no further than 

 

 

Salamence: A -> A+

Its usage as increased significantly and so has the variety of sets it can run. Mostly used sets are bold mence and mixMence, where the latter sometimes runs DD. Scarf mence is almost completely gone. This shows that its purpose has shifted from a revenge killer more towards a pivot, making full use of its intimidate ability and access to defog + roost +draco meteor. Its damage output and move pool is outstanding and its a decent buffer for fighting moves. I think that Salamence + ferrothorn can almost be regarded as a standalone core.

 

Breloom: B+ -> A-

As also risen in usage and stands at roughly 9%. Nowadays it runs mainly three sets, all of which pose different threads: SubPunch, superpower + stone edge and swordsdance + mach punch. Breloom is a staple for many offensive teams, but also finds its way on balance and occasionally even rain. Its ability to break Bulky water types, ferrothorn, hippowdon, tyranitar and even dent Skarmory make it a very effective wall breaker. 

 

Reuniculus: A+ -> A-

Has lost usage and its slot as a stall breaker is now filled by Togekiss. Mostly used as a trick room setter to deal with HO teams after a free switch on balanced teams. Simply to slow to excel in a metagames where heavy stall is very uncommon.

 

hydreigon: S -> A+

S rank should really only be for the absolute defining pokemon of the meta game and I do not think that Hydreigon fills this role anymore. Especially its fighting weakness is its biggest problem, with fighting priority being all over the place.

 

Pelipper: B+ -> A-

Can perform a variety of roles outside of setting rain. Either serve as a defensive pivot with defog or a revenge killer / late game win condition. Shapes and entire playstyle, thus does not "need any support to function" instead supports 5 other mons to function.

Edited by jfk

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, jfk said:

Reuniclus: A+ -> A-

Has lost usage and its slot as a stall breaker is now filled by Togekiss. Mostly used as a trick room setter to deal with HO teams after a free switch on balanced teams. Simply to slow to excel in a metagames where heavy stall is very uncommon.

 

Reuniclus' main set in Singles metas will forever be Calm Mind sweeper. It's one of the most devastating sets in BW era unless specifically countered for. Now, Pokemon that do well checking Reuniclus (Scizor, Haze Milotic, Tyranitar, Hydreigon) are all very viable and prevalent meta threats so playing Reuniclus is hard. The parallel to Togekiss isn't necessary though because they try to beat teams with completely different ways. Togekiss relies on somewhat okay speed (or high speed w/ Scarf) and the high flinch chance, Reuniclus relies on massive bulk after Calm Minds. Reuniclus sure has come down from its S rank days but A- is underselling its value a bit too much considering how hard it is to bring down a set upped Reuniclus.

 

Edit: Just checked, Reuniclus under 9% usage in MMO now wtf has happened. Gotta admit it's pretty hard to justify A+ rank for sub 9% mon, although usage is never the be-all-end-all to viability rankings.

 

 

Quote

Hydreigon: S -> A+

S rank should really only be for the absolute defining pokemon of the meta game and I do not think that Hydreigon fills this role anymore. Especially its fighting weakness is its biggest problem, with fighting priority being all over the place.

 

Being weak to Fighting-priority, which is used only by Conkeldurr and by some occasional Vacuum Wave Lucarios and maybe some weird Brelooms, is very minor compared to the positives of Hydreigon. Hydreigon is a scary Pokemon to every team composition. Switching in against Hydreigon is super difficult no matter of the Pokemon. Even the Pokemon that have the bulk to switch in against Hydreigon can get easily 1v1d by a Taunt-Roost set. Sure, Hydreigon does have kind of a 4-moveslot-syndrome but the value one gets from Hydreigon is insane. It doesn't get fully shut down by anything in the metagame and it's one of the hardest Pokemon to teambuild against in paper. To me beating Hydreigon needs always some level of predictions or a team that abuses its 4-moveslot-syndrome problem. I think that because Hydreigon has so little drawbacks and so few reliable counters, it deserves S rank perhaps more than anything in the game.

 

I agree a lot with what you said about Mence and Pelipper and those changes definitely would be reasonable to me. And Togekiss, well, things have changed a lot since it was an actual UU Pokemon in this game.

 

Edited by OrangeManiac

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58 minutes ago, pachima said:

ever how is lo.

stfu

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3 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

Edit: Just checked, Reuniclus under 9% usage in MMO now wtf has happened

It doesn't break defensive teams with Milo and now Cofa around, it doesn't wall Facade Conk and its best set is Trick Room which is a bit awkward to use due to 4mss and well, being trick room. There's also a lot more taunt around.

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When I look at the pokemon and their power level and usage that are considered A and A- right now, I stand by my suggestion that reuniculus fits better in A- right now. 

 

And regarding Hydreigon, I am not saying it is not useful anymore, it is still amazing but just not as good as it was, so I would also again stand by my decision to move it from S to A+. My grasp of the meta game is not good enough to properly explain why, it just feels a lot less threatening to me than before.

 

Additionally I think Gyarados could be moved from A- to A, and Mandibuzz from B- (lol) to at least B+, if not A-.

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Posted (edited)

Moves:

 

Togekiss from A- to S

 

Hydreigon from S to A+

 

Reuniclus from A+ to A-

 

Salamence from A to A+

 

Hippowdon from A to A-

 

Mandibuzz from B- to B+

 

Pelipper from B+ to A-

 

Kingdra from A- to B+

 

Mienshao from A to A-

 

Magnezone from A to A-

 

Crobat from B- to B

 

Arcanine from B- to B

 

Azumarill from B+ to B

 

Added Zoroark into B- tier

 

 

 

Discuss

Togekiss in S vs A+

Hydreigon in A+ vs S

Conkelldurr in S vs A+, should there be an S tier in this metagame at all?

Zoroarks tier placement

 

Edited by Kimikozen

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Posted (edited)

Why Hippowdon dropped? 

D Tier for Zoroark is fair

Edited by kiwi

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Why isnt Hydreigon S?

Cofagrigus is B+ tops

Conkeldurr is A, maybe remotely A+

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Cofa shouldn't rise I agree. Azumarill at B+ seems very high. LF Electrode, Umbreon and Archeops. Aerodactyl should also rise in viability imo.

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a bunch of changes bcuz team preview, i was out of touch and dead, etc

 

please more suggestions this thread big revamp

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On 9/16/2018 at 2:28 AM, Kimikozen said:

Mantine

Should Drop to C, isn't that great anymore 

 

On 9/16/2018 at 2:28 AM, Kimikozen said:

C+ Rank:

 

Alakazam

Archeops

Clefable

Dusknoir

Machamp

Torkoal

Vaporeon

Venemoth

Weavile

 

 

C Rank:

 

Blaziken

Donphan

Hariyama

Medicham

Scrafty

Slowbro

Umbreon

 

 

C- Rank:

 

Aerodactyl

Golurk

Houndoom

Krookodile

Flygon

Rhyperior

Sawsbuck

I think the whole of this section needs to be revamped. Blaziken, Donphan, Hariyama, Scrafty, Golurk, Krook,Flygon,Rhyperior,Sawsbuck,Alakazam,Dusknoir,Vaporeon should all be removed imo. I know its a very low rank, but even so I don't think alot of these hold their spots Pachima + Gbwead feel free to link me some epic sets which prove me wrong.

On 9/16/2018 at 2:28 AM, Kimikozen said:

Metagross

Idk where this should go but not B+ maybe B- ? or C+ not too sure.

On 9/16/2018 at 2:28 AM, Kimikozen said:

Azumarill

Should be C, struggles to sweep in OU.

 

On 9/16/2018 at 2:28 AM, Kimikozen said:

Arcanine

Is a stretch to be B. C Imo.

 

On 9/16/2018 at 2:28 AM, Kimikozen said:

Smeargle

How popular taunt Hydreigon & Gyarados   is, I don't think this merits being B ahead of something like Aerodactyl/Archeops which are way more reliable for setting hazards on suicide lead teams, drop it to B- or C and raise Archeops/Aero. 

 

Haxorus + Jellicent should drop too, Cba to quote these 2.

 

On 9/16/2018 at 2:28 AM, Kimikozen said:

Snorlax
Weezing

Weezing should not be on this list at all.

Snorlax C/C- i guess

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3 minutes ago, Lvkee said:

How popular taunt Hydreigon & Gyarados   is, I don't think this merits being B ahead of something like Aerodactyl/Archeops which are way more reliable for setting hazards on suicide lead teams, drop it to B- or C and raise Archeops/Aero. 

Very true!! Also, Electrode Taunt.

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I want to make a point for azumarill:

 

1. it is decent in rain with CB. Can take the slot over kabutops since it has a lot more bulk and hits harder right of the bat. Due to being Water only it also fares better vs fighting priority which is a big plus in my opinion.

 

2. The jolly belly drum + aqua jet + waterfall + superpower  set is actually decent on HO if supported by wobbuffet. After an encore on SR, a boosting move or defog (or occasionally weak non effective moves), you can get a free belly drum off. Biggest counters for this set, such as jellicent, are placed in UU and quite rare in OU right now. Biggest problem apart from that are bulky dragons so you need to handle them before hand, but apart from that it is a decent set. 

 

Hence, I think B or even B+ is adequate.

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