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Kimikozen

OU Viability Rankings

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Welcome to the OU Viability RankingsThread. If you do not know what a viability thread entails read further. A viability thread has as purpose to put Pokémon into 'ranks', by lack of a better term. In the OU viability rankings we base our rankings on how viable certain Pokémon in OU are. Discussion is encouraged and remember that you are always entitled to your opinion but forget not to be respectful to other community members.

 

There won't be a split between offensive/defensive/support Pokémon as this is a general viability thread. Meaning offensive and defensive Pokémon can fit into the same rank without utilizing the same role. Bringing underrated Pokémon up for discussion is also part of a viability thread discussion. When proposing a ranking change please post reasoning behind your argument to make sure we avoid the thread being littered.

 

 

 

Current Hot Topics

  • basically everything

 

Resources for Discussion

 

 

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PokeMMO OU Viability Ranking

(Pokemon listed in alphabetical order)

 

S RankReserved for Pokemon that are the pinnacle of the OU metagame. These Pokemon are able to perform a variety of roles very effectively, or can just do one extremely well. Their use has low risk involved and high reward exerted. Pokemon in this rank have very few flaws that are patched up by numerous positive traits.

 

 

S Rank:

 

Conkeldurr

Hydreigon

Togekiss

 

 

 

A RankReserved for Pokemon that are fantastic in the OU metagame, and can sweep, support, or wall significant portions of the metagame. These Pokemon require less support than most others to be used effectively and have few flaws that can easily be compensated for when compared to their positive traits.

 

 

A+ Rank:

 

Ferrothorn

Gengar

Scizor

Tyranitar

Volcarona

Salamence

 

 

A Rank:

Blissey

Chansey

Dragonite

Excadrill

Skarmory

Porygon2

 

 

A- Rank:

Cofagrigus

Gliscor

Gyarados

Hippowdon

Lucario

Magnezone

Mienshao

Milotic

Pelipper

Reuniclus

Tentacruel

 

 

 

 

 

B RankReserved for Pokemon that are great in the OU metagame. These Pokemon have more notable flaws than those above them that affect how they function in the tier. Their positive traits still outshine their negatives, but they require a bit more team support to bring out their full potential.

 

 

B+ Rank:

 

Breloom

Chandelure

Cloyster

Darmanitan

Dugtrio

Jellicent

Kabutops

Kingdra

Mamoswine

Mandibuzz

Metagross

Mantine

Sigilyph

Starmie

Swampert

 

 

 

 

 

 

B Rank:

Aerodactyl

Azumarill

Bronzong

Electrode

Forretress

Haxorus

Jolteon

Porygon-Z

Smeargle

Arcanine

Crobat

 

 

 

B- Rank:

 

Forretress

Heracross

Roserade

Snorlax
Weezing

Zoroark

 

 

 

 

C RankReserved for Pokemon that are mediocre in the OU metagame, but have just as many notable flaws that prevent them from being effective. Pokemon in the C tier often require significant support to be effective. Pokemon from this rank tend to face a lot of competition with the more commonly used Pokemon. These Pokemon exert a below average presence in the metagame.

 

 

C+ Rank:

 

Alakazam

Archeops

Clefable

Dusknoir

Machamp

Torkoal

Vaporeon

Venemoth

Weavile

 

 

C Rank:

 

Blaziken

Donphan

Hariyama

Medicham

Scrafty

Slowbro

Umbreon

 

 

C- Rank:

 

Golurk

Houndoom

Krookodile

Flygon

Rhyperior

Sawsbuck

 

 

D RankReserved for Pokemon that are highly mediocre in the OU metagame, but are viable enough to justify their use on select teams. These Pokemon are only capable of doing their specific task and fail at doing anything more than that. Pokemon from this rank have multiple crippling flaws that prevent them from being successful a majority of the time, and are often severely outclassed because of it. These Pokemon exert a poor presence in the metagame.

 

 

D Rank:

Edited by Kimikozen

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Taking over this thread from Orangemaniac, with his permission.

 

I've made a few changes to reflect current meta better:

Cofagrigus rise from C+ to B - the only true Conk counter, has been rising in usage slightly. Has some interesting techs like Hex and Toxic Spikes. It is still pretty weak wall to thinks not named conkelldurr. When I face it, it is typically just a sitting duck.

 

Crobat from C+ to B- - I think this mon is worth more in OU. Would like to hear opinions on this. It has an amazing speed tier, breaks stall teams, can be a Conk check.

 

Chandelure from B- to B+ - This mon has been rising in usage rapidly as of late. Its a decent check to conkelldurr and its substitute calm mind set is very strong in this metagame. If your opponent doesn't have Ttar this pokemon typically puts in some work. It can setup on non-shadow ball chansey and blissey. (Assuming you sub before toxic).

 

Porygon2 from Unranked to B+ - P2 is a very strong blanket check to many threats in the metagame. Eviolite makes it the premier check for mons like Hydreigon, Gyara, Starmie. I am considering moving P2 higher but would like some input.

 

Darmanitan from B- to B - Darmanitan actually had some presence as wallbreaker for a good while when sheer force was working. Unfortunately, it is not as good right now when the ability is bugged. I'm still going to rank Darmanitan as B, assuming the ability will be fixed soon.

 

Added machamp from Unranked to C+. Has an OK niche right now. Being spammed on ladder with sash lead dynamic punch like DPP. It can break teams, similarly to Conk, with flame orb guts. It is still MASSIVELY in Conk's shadow, but it is also a decent mon in itself.

 

Moving tentacruel from B- to B. It is an OK conk check. It is used on stall builds as a Volc counter. It can tspike, spin, and scald burns are a pain in the ass. Overall a decent pokemon. It is an untraditional bulky water compared to Milo, but I think it deserves a higher spot compared to mons like Snorlax and Arcanine. I feel as if people were more creative with their team builds, Tentacruel would be more incorporated in our metagame. 

 

Added Smeargle from unranked to C+. Smeargle is a legitimate lead option now with focus sash. The only suicide lead that can do anything you want it to. Sleep, setup spikes and rocks, etc.

 

Removed Bellossom and Victreebell because if you use those then stop playing ou. pls convice me otherwise xD

 

Current talking points:

 

Hydreigon drop from S to A+. Would like opinions on this. From other thread, I think it has lost its niche as best dragon type. It can't drop Draco so its specs set has lost some power in comparison to new threats like salamence and kingdra. That being said, taunt roost is an absolute monster. Pory2 and Chansey are better checks after previous patch.

 

Volcarona drop from A+ to A. I personally disagree. This mon is still extremely strong. Can be used on many different types of team. Bold Quiver, sub Quiver, offensive Quiver, it does it all. It's hard to build around but extremely strong in this current metagame.

 

Anything else you deem worthy of talk. Should conkelldurr be in its own S tier? How do the new items affect Mons? Where should we place Porygon2? etc.

Edited by Kimikozen

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9 minutes ago, NurseMaddi said:

shouldn't the list of pokemon on that website include black and white pokemon?

i fixed that, good catch. thanks

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This may be controversial but hear me out.

 

Reuni to go down from S rank. (To A+/A)

 

Unlike the other two S rank mons that can deal with their main counters and still sweep, hydreigon with taunt deals with chansey/blissey and with sp/focusblast 0hkos ttar, conkel deals with everything with its amazing coverage. on the other hand the only reuni set thats ever sweeping is calm mind recover that gets stopped cold by the super common milotic/mantine and still has a lot more offensive checks. ofcourse it can run toxic on a more supportive set but then it wont be threatening with a sweep.

 

Now this has always been the case and everyone agreed reuni was S tier. what changed then?

 

the top tier ou rock-paper-scissor game broke. if you think about the three S tier mons "Balanced" each other out: Reuni beat conkel, conkel beat hydreig and hydreig beat reuni. now with the newest addition of flame orb this is no longer the case since reuni gets outsped and 2hkod byt guts boosted facades, thus losing one of its main attractives, being a surefire conkel counter.

 

There is no doubt that it's still a very good mon and a metagame-defining threat but right now i'd place its power on a volcarona-ish level. 

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9 hours ago, FNTCZ said:

 

 

I've had this opinion for a while but I didn't think people would receive it well. I felt as if as soon as flame orb Facade from Conk got popular, Reuni would drop. It just straight up loses its ability to switch in on the biggest threat in the metagame which is kind of a big deal. I think its other sets have viability like that annoying heal block variant, toxic, etc. Calm mind is still a monster if you remove the threats necessary, but otherwise doesn't do much vs. mantine/milotic. 

 

Would like to hear other opinions on this. Reuniclus is still one of those pokes that if you don't teambuild with it in mind, it will pick you apart and possibly sweep you. I'm personally for it dropping to A+. 

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11 hours ago, Kimikozen said:

Moving tentacruel from B- to B. It is an OK conk check. It is used on stall builds as a Volc counter. It can tspike, spin, and scald burns are a pain in the ass. Overall a decent pokemon. It is an untraditional bulky water compared to Milo, but I think it deserves a higher spot compared to mons like Snorlax and Arcanine. I feel as if people were more creative with their team builds, Tentacruel would be more incorporated in our metagame. 

A-. Imo, it's not just a spinner, it's the best spinner in OU.

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3 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Starmie, though.

Starmie is B+, so Tentacruel should be one rank higher xD

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On 9/15/2018 at 10:28 PM, Kimikozen said:

C Rank:

 

Blaziken

Donphan

Hariyama

Heracross

Medicham

Scrafty

Slowbro

 

Blasphemy!

One of the most slept on mons in OU atm IMO.

It has decent speed, 125 base attack GUTS paired with two powerful STAB moves Close Combat and Megahorn.

1 or 2HKO'ing almost the whole tier and doesn't require too much predicting since Megahorn is quite spamable, deserves at least B-

Since it doesn't have Drain Punch, Heracross appreciates Wish support.

 

2HKO Hippowdon with 1 spike up, CC and MH both works since they are the same base power:

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 106-126 (49.3 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery

 

2HKO Skarmory without hazards:

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 93-111 (54 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Guaranteed OHKO on phys def Ferrothorn: 

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 198-234 (109.3 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

Guaranteed OHKO on phys def Reuniclus, doesn't need Adamant:

252 Atk Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 258-306 (118.8 - 141%) -- guaranteed OHKO 

 

Gliscor is a OK switch in but theres a risk of being 2HKO if rocks are up with Facade however full phys def is not that common and Gliscor can't do much back unless it has Acrobatics:

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 79-94 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 34-41 (21.7 - 26.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after burn damage
 
Cofagrigus is a good switch but Night Slash is an option since its an accurate option against Chandelure and Jellicent so a few predictions could be bad for Cof since it doesn't have reliable recovery:
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 72-86 (43.6 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Don't forget Swords Dance is an option as well:
+2 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 142-168 (86 - 101.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
Talking about Jellicent:
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 73-87 (35.2 - 42%) -- 88.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 114-136 (55 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Heracross is one of the few wallbreakers that doesn't fear conk's Mach Punch:

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 38-45 (24.3 - 28.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after burn damage

Conk is not staying in if it has prior damage:

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 171-202 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
 
OHKO phys def Mantine with rocks up(sp def is more common though, so it won't even need rocks most of the time)
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 164-194 (85.4 - 101%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
Salamence and Gyarados doesn't appreciate switching in on any of its moves unless they run a defensive build, but if they do they won't be able to KO it back:
-1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 65-77 (38 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 102-120 (59.6 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 146-172 (85.3 - 100.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
Edited by Shuck

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12 hours ago, Shuck said:

 

Blasphemy!

One of the most slept on mons in OU atm IMO.

It has decent speed, 125 base attack GUTS paired with two powerful STAB moves Close Combat and Megahorn.

1 or 2HKO'ing almost the whole tier and doesn't require too much predicting since Megahorn is quite spamable, deserves at least B-

Since it doesn't have Drain Punch, Heracross appreciates Wish support.

 

2HKO Hippowdon with 1 spike up, CC and MH both works since they are the same base power:

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Hippowdon: 106-126 (49.3 - 58.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after 1 layer of Spikes and Leftovers recovery

 

2HKO Skarmory without hazards:

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 93-111 (54 - 64.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Guaranteed OHKO on phys def Ferrothorn: 

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 198-234 (109.3 - 129.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

Guaranteed OHKO on phys def Reuniclus, doesn't need Adamant:

252 Atk Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Reuniclus: 258-306 (118.8 - 141%) -- guaranteed OHKO 

 

Gliscor is a OK switch in but theres a risk of being 2HKO if rocks are up with Facade however full phys def is not that common and Gliscor can't do much back unless it has Acrobatics:

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Gliscor: 79-94 (43.4 - 51.6%) -- 64.5% chance to 2HKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
0 Atk Gliscor Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 34-41 (21.7 - 26.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after burn damage
 
Cofagrigus is a good switch but Night Slash is an option since its an accurate option against Chandelure and Jellicent so a few predictions could be bad for Cof since it doesn't have reliable recovery:
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 72-86 (43.6 - 52.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
Don't forget Swords Dance is an option as well:
+2 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Cofagrigus: 142-168 (86 - 101.8%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock and Leftovers recovery
 
Talking about Jellicent:
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Megahorn vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 73-87 (35.2 - 42%) -- 88.8% chance to 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Night Slash vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Jellicent: 114-136 (55 - 65.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Heracross is one of the few wallbreakers that doesn't fear conk's Mach Punch:

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Mach Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Heracross: 38-45 (24.3 - 28.8%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after burn damage

Conk is not staying in if it has prior damage:

252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 171-202 (80.6 - 95.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage
 
OHKO phys def Mantine with rocks up(sp def is more common though, so it won't even need rocks most of the time)
252+ Atk Guts Heracross Stone Edge vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Mantine: 164-194 (85.4 - 101%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock
 
Salamence and Gyarados doesn't appreciate switching in on any of its moves unless they run a defensive build, but if they do they won't be able to KO it back:
-1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Close Combat vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 65-77 (38 - 45%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Facade (140 BP) vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 102-120 (59.6 - 70.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
-1 252+ Atk Guts Heracross Stone Edge vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 146-172 (85.3 - 100.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO after Stealth Rock

The only thing that holds Heracross back is priority move. It easily revenge killed and can be stalled out without recovery options. C rank I agree is a little to low but idk if it’s higher than B or B-.

 

late game it’s devistating and opening up it can punch holes in a defensive core. But that’s about it. 

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Keep in mind, the C rank for Heracross was put there before Flame Orb. Now it's definitely much better but still needless to say faces lots of competition for team slot. So many Pokemon do similar things than Heracross does and that is breaking walls. I'd say because Heracross is such a threat it deserves B rank at minimum but nothing much higher because you don't exactly need Heracross to break walls. Kinda has the Haxorus vibe to it. Best at wallbreaking but inferior to Salamence/Hydreigon/Dnite in overall usefulness.

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Moved Heracross to B- (Was originally in C due to flame orb was unreleased, its way better than that.)

Moved tentarcruel to B+ - Considering moving higher, need more discussion. Its one of the best spinners in the tier. On par with starmie IMO.

Added forretress to B 

 

Would like to see more discussion from other members of community on moving Reuniclus to A+. I think it should be moved and I'll probably write up a big post sometime.

Edited by Kimikozen

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Moving Reuniclus down to A+ tier.

 

  • Usage has lowered over past two months, it is most certainly not as centralizing as it was pre-patch.
  • No longer a Conkelldurr counter, barely passes as a check. Flame orb facade 2hkos.
  • Offense has become very volt-switch heavy which is not favorable for Reuniclus who likes to say in for multiple turns. 
  • On many teambuilds Cofagrigus has replaced Reuniclus for the simple fact of countering Conkelldurr.
  • S-tier is reserved for mons who 9/10 times will have a big impact on the game. Reuniclus does not always shine like it used to. It has major flaws that are getting exposed after being in the spotlight for multiple months. Most teams are ready to beat CM Reuni, and the other sets are not as threatening. 

Moving Cofagrigus to A- tier.

  • Its usage is too high to put it any lower. Even though I do not like Cofagrigus myself, that is not what the rest of the MMO community is saying. It is getting high usage in PSL (I would like to see W/L of Cofag users) and in automated tourneys/ranked. It is getting usage because some think it is necessity for stall builds and balance to check Conk. I am putting my biases aside, Cofag is the real deal right now.
  • One of few Conkelldurr counters, used on a lot of teambuilds  for this reason. Helps against fighting types in general, like HJK switchin from Mienshao, Heracross check, etc.
  • Spinblocker, fighting check, can lay T-spikes, Hex can be a nuke coming off of 130 base power stab.
  • It is not higher because it still struggles with many top tier threats. It basically gives a free switch to Hydreigon, Togekiss, Blissey, etc. 

 

Talking points:

Mamoswine drop A to A-

Gengar rise A to A+ 

Kingdra drop A- to B+

Tentacruel rise B+ to A-

 

lets here some discussion lads

Edited by Kimikozen

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  • Mamo probably deserves less than A-. It takes a ton of support to deal with the overwhelming weanesses it has. It's also a BL mon because it's hardly ever played in OU these days. Scizor and Conkeldurr beign the 2 most used mons aso makes it difficult for Mamo.
  • Blissey is still pretty good and even has more usage than Chansey. Not sure why Chansey is so high ranked while Blissey is so low. 
  • Both Swampert and Breloom are ranked way too low imo. They should both be at B+. They are fairly common and effective.
  • Smeargle also deserves imo to make it to the B rank being a very centralizing lead in offensive teams.
  • With Cofagrigus everywhere, Mienshao should probably drop to A-. Would also make sense if Gengar rise up to A+.
  • Tenta definitely needs to go up. A- seems fine.
  • Milotic should also be A rank mon. As a wall, it can accomplish so much for a team depending on its set.
  • Venomoth should probably be on the viability rankings. Not sure where, but it should be there imo.
Edited by gbwead

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On 10/28/2018 at 11:40 AM, gbwead said:
  • Mamo probably deserves less than A-. It takes a ton of support to deal with the overwhelming weanesses it has. It's also a BL mon because it's hardly ever played in OU these days. Scizor and Conkeldurr beign the 2 most used mons aso makes it difficult for Mamo.
  • Blissey is still pretty good and even has more usage than Chansey. Not sure why Chansey is so high ranked while Blissey is so low. 
  • Both Swampert and Breloom are ranked way too low imo. They should both be at B+. They are fairly common and effective.
  • Smeargle also deserves imo to make it to the B rank being a very centralizing lead in offensive teams.
  • With Cofagrigus everywhere, Mienshao should probably drop to A-. Would also make sense if Gengar rise up to A+.
  • Tenta definitely needs to go up. A- seems fine.
  • Milotic should also be A rank mon. As a wall, it can accomplish so much for a team depending on its set.
  • Venomoth should probably be on the viability rankings. Not sure where, but it should be there imo.
  • Mamo - big agree. It is still a big threat that is very hard to switch in, but its speed tier is mediocre. B+ imo.
  • Blissey - tbh not much experience on this one. Now that I think about it I see bliss way more than chansey. Still both viable imo. I think i'll throw both in A tier because neither is as powerful as A+ tier.
  • Breloom + Swamp - agree. I have used both and have always put in work/fill out a teambuild nicely
  • Gengar - favorite top tier threat rn. Insanely good on offense, I think is A+.
  • I am impartial with Tentacruel. But it has big usage and it fits in very nicely on teams. I'll raise it to A-. 
  • Disagree on Milotic. I think it is too one dimensional to be A tier. I think it allows free switches into bliss,ferro,tenta too easily without very threatening moves. If you want to elaborate on this I would definitely be willing to hear.
  • No idea on venemoth. Seems like a shitty volcarona but I guess it has sleep powder so I'l just throw it in C+
  • Smeargle - spams hazard in lead spot idk why I had this lower

 

Edited by Kimikozen

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2 minutes ago, Kimikozen said:
  • Disagree on Milotic. I think it is too one dimensional to be A tier. I think it allows free switches into bliss,ferro too easily without very threatening moves. If you want to elaborate on this I would definitely be willing to hear.
  • No idea on venemoth. Seems like a shitty volcarona but I guess it has sleep powder so I'l just throw it in C+

 

You can run milotic as a phazer, it also helps against reuniclus (toxic reuniclus beats it tho)

You can also run milotic with flame orb to help you switch in on against hard hitters (excadrill or mamoswine as exemples)

 

Venomoth can also run disable + sub and beat blobs or other walls, its ability makes it strong as well and that immunity to toxic is big

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16 minutes ago, Aerun said:

You can run milotic as a phazer, it also helps against reuniclus (toxic reuniclus beats it tho)

You can also run milotic with flame orb to help you switch in on against hard hitters (excadrill or mamoswine as exemples)

 

Venomoth can also run disable + sub and beat blobs or other walls, its ability makes it strong as well and that immunity to toxic is big

Venemoth seems like a threat. Where would everyone put it?

 

Also I understand MIilotic's role, I just don't think it is good enough at it. You can switch in to powerful physical attackers and haze setup sweepers but what does it do vs. a switch in against a Bliss/tenta/ferro. Seems like your just letting them setup hazards, seed, spin, etc. Also it gets chipped very fast in volt/turn meta and big special attackers like hydreigon, mence, etc

 

Edited by Kimikozen

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1 hour ago, Kimikozen said:

Also I understand MIilotic's role, I just don't think it is good enough at it. You can switch in to powerful physical attackers and haze setup sweepers but what does it do vs. a switch in against a Bliss/tenta/ferro. Seems like your just letting them setup hazards, seed, spin, etc. Also it gets chipped very fast in volt/turn meta and big special attackers like hydreigon, mence, etc

It's probably not the best argument, but Milotic probably wins the most 1v1 in the tier. You have to send walls against Milotic because it leaves almost no room for offensive threats switch ins. Like you said, you have to send Blissey/Ferrothorn. Scald potential burn prevents all physical threats from switching in and Haze prevents all the special attackers from setting up (aside from Togekiss I guess).

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On 10/28/2018 at 11:40 AM, gbwead said:
  • Mamo probably deserves less than A-. It takes a ton of support to deal with the overwhelming weanesses it has. It's also a BL mon because it's hardly ever played in OU these days. Scizor and Conkeldurr beign the 2 most used mons aso makes it difficult for Mamo.
  • Blissey is still pretty good and even has more usage than Chansey. Not sure why Chansey is so high ranked while Blissey is so low. 
  • Both Swampert and Breloom are ranked way too low imo. They should both be at B+. They are fairly common and effective.
  • Smeargle also deserves imo to make it to the B rank being a very centralizing lead in offensive teams.
  • With Cofagrigus everywhere, Mienshao should probably drop to A-. Would also make sense if Gengar rise up to A+.
  • Tenta definitely needs to go up. A- seems fine.
  • Milotic should also be A rank mon. As a wall, it can accomplish so much for a team depending on its set.
  • Venomoth should probably be on the viability rankings. Not sure where, but it should be there imo.
  • I agree with mamoswine for b+ it just has a hard time ever switching it and is usually pretty easy to wear down or revenge kill. Skarmory also walls it more often than not and porygon2 can deal with non super power sets. 
  • blissey is probably better than chansey in our current meta because of its use able special attack 
  • swampert and breloom are both pretty viable in the current meta i think b+ is fair for both of these
  • I think c+/b is fair for smeargle when it works it works well
  • i think tentacruel is being severely overestimated, if you look down the list of ou mons it has very few if any safe switch ins that arent another bulky water and even those threaten to burn it with scald and help wear it down. Both cofagrigus and certain gengar sets are able to spin block vs it so it cant even reliably spin, where as spin variants of starmie are much harder to spin block against.It checks/walls certain volcarona sets but to be able to stop them all it needs haze, it has a decent matchup vs certain hydreigon set, and it can annoy some other bulky waters but even less so now that milotic carries flame orb more often than not. I just cant see this pokemon being anywhere past a b+ ranking, it just doesn't really do anything that well in the meta. 
  • I think all four of the bulky waters belong in the same b+ tier starmie/milotic/mantine/tenta all bring something to the table that the others dont and dont think you can definitively say that one is better than the others because they all are better in certain matchups. 
  • venomoth should probably be around a b ranking it has some different traits than volcarona that enable its setup like disable/sleep powder and with tinted lens it can usually get by with just 1 attacking move. 
  • Kingdra should drop to b+ all versions of it are stopped cold by ferrothorn and the special rain variants are dealt with by chansey/blissey and spdef variants of mantine/milotic, outside of rain this pokemon is very mediocre and unboosted speed its often just ohkoed by faster offensive threats. 
  • I would also like to nominate darmanitan for A- ranking as it can pretty much 2hko the entire meta and sits in a pretty decent speed tier
8 hours ago, gbwead said:

It's probably not the best argument, but Milotic probably wins the most 1v1 in the tier. You have to send walls against Milotic because it leaves almost no room for offensive threats switch ins. Like you said, you have to send Blissey/Ferrothorn. Scald potential burn prevents all physical threats from switching in and Haze prevents all the special attackers from setting up (aside from Togekiss I guess).

Reuniclus/starmie/breloom/kingdra/conk/hydreigon can all switch into milotic on offensive teams although some may not appreciate a rogue icebeam and breloom probably wants to have its orb activated. It does win 1 v 1 vs about half the tier but it will also get 2hkoed by a ton of offensive mons if its forced to switch into them. 

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