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[OU Discussion] Conkeldurr


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19 hours ago, PrincessDia said:

 on the other hand if someone plays regularly without considering "What if a Conkeldurr is waiting there?" a late revealed Conkeldurr will sweep what is remaining without any effort most of the time, without any counter-play option.

That is a problem with a lack of team preview and you can make the same argument about anything that can sweep.  People don't have more than a couple of cloyster counters/checks or a couple of reuniclus counters/checks or a couple of volcarona counters/checks.  If any are revealed late and all the counters dead then a sweep is inevitable with no counter-play options left.  I agree its a problem and there's a reason it was changed in the handhelds, but it really has absolutely nothing to do with conkeldurr.

 

The way to deal with it if you have problems with it is to think about why the opponent is putting pressure on certain pokes of yours and try to deciper their team comp.  It ends up being much more threatening when you think their last poke is one thing then it ends up being something similar but different enough to sweep you.  Anyway, that's just the game right now.  Banning pokes won't solve that aspect.

Edited by Aard
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23 hours ago, Aard said:

That is a problem with a lack of team preview and you can make the same argument about anything that can sweep.  People don't have more than a couple of cloyster counters/checks or a couple of reuniclus counters/checks or a couple of volcarona counters/checks.  If any are revealed late and all the counters dead then a sweep is inevitable with no counter-play options left.  I agree its a problem and there's a reason it was changed in the handhelds, but it really has absolutely nothing to do with conkeldurr.

 

The way to deal with it if you have problems with it is to think about why the opponent is putting pressure on certain pokes of yours and try to deciper their team comp.  It ends up being much more threatening when you think their last poke is one thing then it ends up being something similar but different enough to sweep you.  Anyway, that's just the game right now.  Banning pokes won't solve that aspect.

I completely agree with the issue being closely related to lack of team preview and I've mentioned it multiple times previously. But hey, sweepers are not added with Unova or latest update to PokeMMO, they had same threat level before when revealed late and majority of them still has it, the issue is, other sweepers require walls and some certain faster things out of the way beforehand and some mons crippled to a level of being able to OHKO'ed, Conkeldurr doesn't worry about being walled, being outspeeded or doesn't require many mons to be crippled before it starts going into sweeper stance. It's like a list of win conditions you have, the list is very various and fat for other players while a Conkeldurr owner can just tick a few lines and win.

 

Is it unstoppable? No. But you put both sides on a scale, stopping Conkeldurr is a very hard process if it finds a single opportunity to get an easy switch in and throughout a whole battle I've never seen one failing to find that opportunity, then you have the option to run Conkeldurr on your team to even the pressure out. The choice is very simple and the difference is very obvious, so people just run Conkeldurr in their teams....

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15 minutes ago, Impulse5095 said:

any update on what is going on with conk? 

 

 

Judging from the fact that we didn't even get usage this month, TC members are waiting for the meta to settle post-update. It's understandable, considering the amount of items, moves and abilities that started working

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35 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Judging from the fact that we didn't even get usage this month, TC members are waiting for the meta to settle post-update. It's understandable, considering the amount of items, moves and abilities that started working

Pretty much this, but even then, considering Sheer Force had to be disabled we may not have a good sample month of Conk's dominance in the meta.

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2 hours ago, suigin said:

Pretty much this, but even then, considering Sheer Force had to be disabled we may not have a good sample month of Conk's dominance in the meta.

Sheer force Conk will never be as good and as dominant as Guts one (which also is the main problem and the most discussed set) so I would leave this argument out tbh. If anything, Iron Fist Conk would be dank for a CB set

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  • 3 weeks later...

The tier council has decided not to ban Conkeldurr from the Overused Tier.

 

The common consensus seems to be that while it is an incredibly powerful and versatile Pokemon capable of handling a lot of the metagame, it has enough checks in the tier to prevent it from sweeping easily, such as Cofagrigus and Rocky Helm Hippowdon for defensive teams and Acrogem Gliscor, offensive Ghosts and Psychics, Togekiss and Pelipper among others for offensive teams.

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38 minutes ago, Roundabout said:

Just a question, but why are were you guys considering banning him while Machamp and Heracross are UU? What make this guy so much better? Is the extra 10 base attack that big of a deal or is it because of Mach Punch?

the last 8 ish pages should be able to answer your question

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1 hour ago, Impulse5095 said:

Not going to lie, I am really surprised that this did not get banned. It’s legit on almost every team right now and so is config. It’s sickneing that three spots are filled on the team and you only have three to play with to even be relevant. 

 

 

It's on around 27% of teams and Cofa is on around 10% of the teams.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'd say that if we didn't ban Conk prior to the update, we have no merit to ban it now. Its ability to sweep has been severely hampered by the presence of our new hero Mummy Cofa which basically walls it off and cripples Conk with one touch of its ghostly skin. 

 

We had loose checks before, but now we have a counter. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, Conk looks like a major threat for you guys, so I gonna explain how this thing is not broken and how you can handle it.

 

First, if you use a defensive team, as known as a " Stall " team, then you have a lot of options to deal with it, Hippowdon and Cofagrigus are the best answers to Conkeldurr, but you also have to be aware that Conkeldurr can have more and more troubles to beat anything as long as the game lasts. Why ? It's pretty simple, just deny his recovery, this thing carries a flame orb, if you put a Spike or SRs on the field this thing isn't a threat anymore, the best it can do is to trade versus something, and only if it outplays the fuck out of you. How do you deny his recovery ? Just use Fighting resists, Crobat, Cofagrigus, Gyarados, Dragonite, Tentacruel ( Liquid Ooze is very nice here ). So even if you don't have a dedicated Conk answer you can beat it. Also, it's worth noting that Stone Edge Conk bypass Mummy and outspeeds Cofa so be aware of that, it's threatening, and some specific sets without Mach Punch can also be troublesome I guess, but nothing TOO good that should be banned before it makes stalls unviable.

 

Now let's talk about offensive teams, as known as " Hyper Offense " or " Bulky Offense " teams. If you're using HO then you have to be careful when you build, use setup sweepers that are not revenge killed by Mach Punch AND / OR that can setup on the face of Conk, or at least some sets of it. Sub Disable Venomoth can do that, maybe Wacan Berry Gyarados too, Volcarona under the right conditions, SubCM/Toxic Chandelure, Togekiss, Gliscor,  Acrobatics Scizor can also lure it as Conk can often want to Drain Punch. There's a lot of things.

If you're using bulky offense, then you can apply the previous advices, plus you have to carry some actual answers, Stallbreaker Crobat, Gliscor, "Offensive" Swampert, Tentacruel, Gengar, RH " Suicide " Skarm ( Not suicide lead, but " suicide " as " You gonna die with me or you won't pass through me " ), etc etc etc, there's a lot of switch patterns you can have, of course you can get outplayed, but you can't say " Lol I have no answer this thing is broken ". If you can play around Volcarona, Band Dragonite, Mamoswine or other big threats like that you can play around Conkeldurr. Stop complain guys.

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