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[OU Discussion] Conkeldurr


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10 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

9/10 times Conk will click Drain Punch turn 1 unless you've shown a switch in (Mantine/Gliscor/Cofag etc.) To which you can scout for moves with double swaps. But the same can be said about many Pokemon. Just because something has unpredictable coverage doesn't make it unbeatable

Im not agree with this 9/10. Some time people try to brain idk what. tpunch t1 is common i think, but yeah if no ice punch ofc that gliscor can stop it easily..
Cofa is the best counter atm for conkeldurr

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1 minute ago, pachima said:

This is wrong. People don´t run 2 fighting types these days. 

Also if they did, then it would be even harder for them to switch against stuff, which contradicts your argument of conk is able to come back everytime it pleases because its godly made team switches into everything. 

I'm not the one using 2 fighter teams for that purpose. I'm stating what I saw, I've seen 4 of them in 1 day, obviously people are experimenting around with Conkeldurrs unstoppable power to abuse it. I also mentioned there were full physical teams I saw relying on Conkeldurr to destroy whatever answer you may have to physical attacks without worry of being resisted, they had stuff like, gyarados, scizor, arcanine, darmanitan, etc. to tag along and finish the remains. I'm not claiming they are all viable even though my opinion is some of them looked perfectly viable,.

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10 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

That starts going from "Conk is OP" to good team builds and playing the team effectively. Essentially it's similar to saying "Keeping your win conditions safe until late game gives you a good chance to win". As for team Preview I feel it will neither hinder nor help Conk, it would moreso weed out the better players from the worse

Hmm, are you aware that, the "good team" build here is just built to minimalize prediction required for a mon destroying opposing team alone instead covering up for it's weaknesses or having synergies?

 

EDIT: I'm not referring to 6physical teams here, only the scouter teams

Edited by PrincessDia
clarification
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11 minutes ago, MosesBrenner said:

gyarados impish nature:

-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 184+ Def Gyarados: 63-75 (16 - 19%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 184+ Def Gyarados: 340-404 (86.5 - 102.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery

-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 184+ Def Gyarados: 158-186 (40.2 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery

solid check without thunder punch

 

Volcarona Timid with 252 Def:

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 240 HP / 252 Def Volcarona: 110-129 (29.6 - 34.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 240 HP / 252 Def Volcarona: 147-173 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery
252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252 Def Volcarona: 273-322 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery
solid check without rocks up.
 
Salamence Naive:
-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 85-101 (25.6 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO
-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 114-135 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 456-540 (137.7 - 163.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO
-1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 213-251 (64.3 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
solid check without ice punch
if you go with a Lax or impish nature with roost it's even better.
 
like the other said it depends on the set. Facade seems strong, but then it lacks on other moves.

And if it runs facade, it will have to either drop bulk up to fit a coverage move for ghosts, or just not hit ghosts at all.

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3 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

And if it runs facade, it will have to either drop bulk up to fit a coverage move for ghosts, or just not hit ghosts at all.

I feel like we are going back to stuff we talked in OU tier discussion thread. It's damage is ridiculously high that you most likely lose a mon or two when you learn which coverage moves it runs.

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20 minutes ago, PrincessDia said:

Hmm, are you aware that, the "good team" build here is just built to minimalize prediction required for a mon destroying opposing team alone instead covering up for it's weaknesses or having synergies?

 

EDIT: I'm not referring to 6physical teams here, only the scouter teams

A good team build would be one that can be effectively used in the tier with a good chance of winning. It's what makes tiers change drastically at times such as Gastrodon on smogon recently when it was pushed from NU? to OU because it handled a good number of the top used Pokemon in the tier at the time. And yes you're correct, a good teambuild should minimize prediction as it put's the game more in your control, but I don't think this takes from the synergy of a team if anything it should add to it so that you have safer switch ins.

 

~But this is a tangent from the discussion at hand ^.^

 

____________

More towards the topic we do have working Light Clay now, many psychic type that can switch in on Conk can set up a Reflect nullifying it for a good portion of the match also severely hindering it's recovery option

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10 hours ago, razimove said:

I'm not a big fan of stall teams but apparently, they are the ones suffering from it the most.

I disagree. Stall teams usually run only one special wall (theBlob) and many physical ones, once conk's set is revealed then for sure stall teams will have something to wall it (reuni if not facade, mence/hippo/gliscor if no icepunch, milo/mantine/tenta/starmie if no thunder punch...)

 

On the other hand, offensive teams can deal with conk but it will no matter the circumstances cost them a pokemon and a half, not to talk about momentum loss which is huge for these kind of teams. There is not a single speedy viable pokemon that can 0hko this thing (bar togekiss but even then that mon is more viable on balance than it is on offensive builds), and the ones that come the closest to this are either weak or destroyed by mach punch.

 

252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 105-124 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 115-136 (63.5 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 147-174 (81.2 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 160-190 (88.3 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 95-113 (52.4 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 110-133 (60.7 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 102-121 (56.3 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 156-187 (86.1 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after burn damage

252 Atk Gliscor Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 158-188 (74.5 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 148-175 (69.8 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 129-152 (60.8 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 136-161 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 132-156 (73.3 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 135-160 (63.6 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Life Orb Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 101-121 (47.6 - 57%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO

 

And well, theres a lot of calcs I know, but my point is that balance and stall deal better with conk that offense does, if you are running an offensive team sure you will kill the mon but it will cost you at least one pokemon and a loss of momentum (cuz after your gengar/whatever dies getting conk to under 20% hp you cant just send any mon to finish it but something that isnt totally destroyed by a last ditch mach punch and then the other guy gets to decide what mon to send in so you end up losing a lot of momentum too)

 

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4 minutes ago, FNTCZ said:

I disagree. Stall teams usually run only one special wall (theBlob) and many physical ones, once conk's set is revealed then for sure stall teams will have something to wall it (reuni if not facade, mence/hippo/gliscor if no icepunch, milo/mantine/tenta/starmie if no thunder punch...)

 

On the other hand, offensive teams can deal with conk but it will no matter the circumstances cost them a pokemon and a half, not to talk about momentum loss which is huge for these kind of teams. There is not a single speedy viable pokemon that can 0hko this thing (bar togekiss but even then that mon is more viable on balance than it is on offensive builds), and the ones that come the closest to this are either weak or destroyed by mach punch.

 

252 SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 105-124 (58 - 68.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ SpA Choice Specs Hydreigon Dragon Pulse vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 115-136 (63.5 - 75.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 147-174 (81.2 - 96.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Sheer Force Darmanitan Flare Blitz vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 160-190 (88.3 - 104.9%) -- 31.3% chance to OHKO

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 95-113 (52.4 - 62.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Sludge Wave vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 110-133 (60.7 - 73.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Volcarona Fire Blast vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 102-121 (56.3 - 66.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Psyshock vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 156-187 (86.1 - 103.3%) -- 18.8% chance to OHKO after burn damage

252 Atk Gliscor Acrobatics (110 BP) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 158-188 (74.5 - 88.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 Atk Life Orb Mienshao High Jump Kick vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 148-175 (69.8 - 82.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Mamoswine Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 129-152 (60.8 - 71.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Lucario Close Combat vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 136-161 (64.1 - 75.9%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252 SpA Choice Specs Chandelure Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 132-156 (73.3 - 86.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

252+ Atk Life Orb Cloyster Icicle Spear (5 hits) vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Conkeldurr: 135-160 (63.6 - 75.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

4 SpA Life Orb Cloyster Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 101-121 (47.6 - 57%) -- 86.7% chance to 2HKO

 

And well, theres a lot of calcs I know, but my point is that balance and stall deal better with conk that offense does, if you are running an offensive team sure you will kill the mon but it will cost you at least one pokemon and a loss of momentum (cuz after your gengar/whatever dies getting conk to under 20% hp you cant just send any mon to finish it but something that isnt totally destroyed by a last ditch mach punch and then the other guy gets to decide what mon to send in so you end up losing a lot of momentum too)

 

17

1- life orb darma does. Psychis starmie does. overheat chandelure does. Most draco meteors pressure it hard enough. Acrobactics with flying gem as well.

Also, why is this conk 252 hp 228 spdef.

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Just now, pachima said:

1- life orb darma does. Psychis starmie does. overheat chandelure does. Most draco meteors pressure it hard enough. Acrobactics with flying gem as well.

Also, why is this conk 252 hp 228 spdef.

No, most calcs are either 228 spdef (lefties bulk up set) OR 252 hp (Flame orb set). There is not a single calc with 252hp/228spdef. I just used the one that was most likely to be facing said offensive threat. 

Psychic starmie is bad in offensive teams because of the blobs, thats why you run psyshock + pump

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 109-129 (60.2 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

which still deal nothing.

 

"Pressure it hard enough" is not argument because it losses A LOT of momentum, same with overheat unless specs. Through the generations hypper offense teams dislike choice locked pokemon because of this very reason too.

 

I personally have mixed feelings about orbed darma and I feel like it fits better on a balance team as breaker than it does on a offensive team compared with its scarf set. either way, recoil + mach punch puts it at ~15% hp add this to the fact that darma is weak to rocks and yeh... gl

 

252+ SpA Chandelure Overheat vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 139-165 (76.7 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

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6 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

A good team build would be one that can be effectively used in the tier with a good chance of winning. It's what makes tiers change drastically at times such as Gastrodon on smogon recently when it was pushed from NU? to OU because it handled a good number of the top used Pokemon in the tier at the time. And yes you're correct, a good teambuild should minimize prediction as it put's the game more in your control, but I don't think this takes from the synergy of a team if anything it should add to it so that you have safer switch ins.

 

~But this is a tangent from the discussion at hand ^.^

I don't know what tier council would think about this but Conkeldurr's scouting case looks much different than team building like, a Pelipper bringing rain to a Kingdra or a Defogger making space for a Volcarona. This one clearly looks more like an abuse to me. I find it extremely unhealthy to make the metagame oriented on a mon either to allow it to destroy opposing team or desperately trying to prevent it from doing so.

And have a look at what people are considering out of desperation... I look at Gastrodon case, then I look at Cofagrigus case... I see a lot of obvious differences in practical use. A LOT of them.... Cofagrigus is seeing light of day in OU because, it doesn't handle a good number of top used mons, just one broken mon. I am not denying it handles Mienshao as well but Mienshao did not bring it to OU out of desperation, just Conkeldurr having access to Flame Orb did. 

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2 minutes ago, FNTCZ said:

No, most calcs are either 228 spdef (lefties bulk up set) OR 252 hp (Flame orb set). There is not a single calc with 252hp/228spdef. I just used the one that was most likely to be facing said offensive threat. 

Psychic starmie is bad in offensive teams because of the blobs, thats why you run psyshock + pump

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 109-129 (60.2 - 71.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

which still deal nothing.

 

"Pressure it hard enough" is not argument because it losses A LOT of momentum, same with overheat unless specs. Through the generations hypper offense teams dislike choice locked pokemon because of this very reason too.

 

I personally have mixed feelings about orbed darma and I feel like it fits better on a balance team as breaker than it does on a offensive team compared with its scarf set. either way, recoil + mach punch puts it at ~15% hp add this to the fact that darma is weak to rocks and yeh... gl

 

252+ SpA Chandelure Overheat vs. 4 HP / 228 SpD Conkeldurr: 139-165 (76.7 - 91.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

Fair enough. However, I dont think psychic is bad on starmie cause psyshock can+t 2hko chansey either. Both are viable imo.

By pressure hard enough, I mean this.

252+ SpA Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 199-235 (93.8 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Dragonite makes it similar. And it can hurricane too.
And finally, on a specs chandelure, I believe overheat > flamethrower, mostly because a specs chandelure isnt sweeping anytime soon. Low speed and too many things countering locked flamethrower makes, imo too, overheat a better choice.
I actually also believe Conkeldurr punishes pure offense more than Stall for the reasons you said earlier. Thus I have no idea why people claiming it beats stall. Balance seems to do just fine, however.
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7 minutes ago, PrincessDia said:

I don't know what tier council would think about this but Conkeldurr's scouting case looks much different than team building like, a Pelipper bringing rain to a Kingdra or a Defogger making space for a Volcarona. This one clearly looks more like an abuse to me. I find it extremely unhealthy to make the metagame oriented on a mon either to allow it to destroy opposing team or desperately trying to prevent it from doing so.

And have a look at what people are considering out of desperation... I look at Gastrodon case, then I look at Cofagrigus case... I see a lot of obvious differences in practical use. A LOT of them.... Cofagrigus is seeing light of day in OU because, it doesn't handle a good number of top used mons, just one broken mon. I am not denying it handles Mienshao as well but Mienshao did not bring it to OU out of desperation, just Conkeldurr having access to Flame Orb did. 

Cofagrigus helps a lot against conkeldurr, mienshao, scizor,metagross, lucario, snorlax.  It can haze top used set up mons like salamence, and it can also toxic spikes. Saying cofagrigus is seeing light of day just because Conkeldurr is kinda untrue at this point.

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4 minutes ago, pachima said:

Fair enough. However, I dont think psychic is bad on starmie cause psyshock can+t 2hko chansey either. Both are viable imo.

By pressure hard enough, I mean this.

252+ SpA Life Orb Salamence Draco Meteor vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 199-235 (93.8 - 110.8%) -- 62.5% chance to OHKO
Dragonite makes it similar. And it can hurricane too.
And finally, on a specs chandelure, I believe overheat > flamethrower, mostly because a specs chandelure isnt sweeping anytime soon. Low speed and too many things countering locked flamethrower makes, imo too, overheat a better choice.
I actually also believe Conkeldurr punishes pure offense more than Stall for the reasons you said earlier. Thus I have no idea why people claiming it beats stall. Balance seems to do just fine, however.

Mence doesnt 0hko the 228 spdef conk tho, and gets ko'd back. but ye, still agree with you. 

and regarding dnite ye, conk does pretty bad vs rain, I think that's agreed upon. my main issue with conk is definitelly how bad of a spot it puts offensive teams in (LF the latis)

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7 minutes ago, pachima said:

Cofagrigus helps a lot against conkeldurr, mienshao, scizor,metagross, lucario, snorlax.  It can haze top used set up mons like salamence, and it can also toxic spikes. Saying cofagrigus is seeing light of day just because Conkeldurr is kinda untrue at this point.

In real world scenarios, problem is unless whole enemy team is revealed, there is a chance a Conkeldurr is waiting out there, you can't really afford to throw it in to set up toxic spikes or get it hurt because it goes down quite easily compared to majority of mons sharing similar role. I'm honestly not even counting Snorlax, haven't seen a single one since Guts Conkeldurr became a thing.

Edited by PrincessDia
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1 minute ago, PrincessDia said:

In real world scenarios, problem is unless whole enemy team is revealed, there is a chance a Conkeldurr is waiting out there, you can't really afford to throw it in to set up toxic spikes or get it hurt because it goes down quite easy to majority of mons. I'm honestly not even counting Snorlax, haven't seen a single one since Guts Conkeldurr became a thing.

If conk is waiting, its a 5v6. If its a 5v6, unless one of them is an idiot, the player with 6 Pokemons should win.

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5 minutes ago, pachima said:

If conk is waiting, its a 5v6. If its a 5v6, unless one of them is an idiot, the player with 6 Pokemons should win.

That not happening as it's supposed to be is the whole point of this discussion pachi D:

 

EDIT: I felt the need to explain this further, the issue is if a person is desperate enough to bring a Cofagrigus against a Conkeldurr, once Cofagrigus is out of game, Conkeldurr's potential equals 2 to 5 mons depending on the remaining team's potential of killing it.

Edited by PrincessDia
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18 minutes ago, pachima said:

If conk is waiting, its a 5v6. If its a 5v6, unless one of them is an idiot, the player with 6 Pokemons should win.

I have never seen a game in which all 6 mons want to jump on the field at the same time. Keeping something in the back is very normal for any game without team preview, especially if theres a lot of other good Pokemon to keep making threats or setting something before a final sweep (see DPP).

 

On a more relevant note, since I've been thinking about what GB said where it might be checked by a tandem of threats making it not too broken, just really strong.e6dd3667cc56af43066a6cae71228337.png

 

How many of these mons in OU does Conk reliably setup on, and another question after one boost, how many does he cripple or just blow away? I don't really have an opinion on this part so this could be a point for discussion.

 

Edit: Just for people who want to post calcs and things heres an example of what Conk can't reliably setup on

 

Gengar

252 SpA Life Orb Gengar Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Conkeldurr: 126-149 (59.4 - 70.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after burn damage

 

With damage like that, Conk cannot get a sweep going especially since he's slower, and the priority move doesn't effect gengar. Can he demolish gengar with payback or ice punch? Yes, but he took a load of damage and might be dying soon.

 

Edited by KOHHuiXIN
Adding extra things to talk about
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Just now, PrincessDia said:

That not happening as it's supposed to be is the whole point of this discussion pachi D:

This makes no sense. If a 5v6 where Conk is not coming and where the player with 6 mons doesnt win, why is this a discussion for Conk? Seems more a discussion for whatever People use along with Conk. You are putting too many variables on conks to sweep. You are assuming you can switch in against everything Conk has to switch out, which you cannot. Let me ask you this. Lets ignore Conkeldurr and focus on reuniclus for a while. Let´s also assume you wait with reuniclus until stuff like hydreigon, scizor and tyranitar are down. Then you come in, calm mind and sweep, how is this any different from what you are trying to achieve with Conk?

Let´s assume you save a sniper kingdra until chansey/Blissey are gone. Then you come in, focus energy and destroy everything in its path. How is it any different? 

This same argument can be used on too many pokemons in the tier. IF what you say is true, if people can indeed switch against everything people throw vs Conkeldurr, then this should be a discussion about those things and not about Conk itself.

Also, you seem to be assuming people can´t run more than 1 check for Conkeldurr, which also doesnt make sense. If you take the 39 Mons out of OU, and choose 6 completely random, odds are you have at least 2 of them that beat easily Conkeldurr. 

If people choose not to run Pokemon that beat Conkeldurr, when there are actually a lot, I feel people want to be slapped by Conkeldurr. 

If out of 39 Mons, people choose 5 or 6 that cant defeat Conkeldurr when like 15 of the tier can, that´s bad teambuilding.

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3 minutes ago, KOHHuiXIN said:

. Keeping something in the back is very normal for any game without team preview, especially if theres a lot of other good Pokemon to keep making threats or setting something before a final sweep (see DPP).

1

I addressd this in the earlier post, after you posted. That is not really a argument because several other Pokemon, if saved, can effortlessly sweep under the same circunstances just like conkeldurr does.

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2 minutes ago, KOHHuiXIN said:

How many of these mons in OU does Conk reliably setup on, and another question after one boost, how many does he cripple or just blow away? I don't really have an opinion on this part so this could be a point for discussion.

 

I did calcs about it when I was posting on OU tier discussion thread but I didn't post them to avoid massive wall of calculations. Only 8% of the current OU tier survives or deals more damage than it can drain if you let it bulk up once if I remember correct. I remember Tentacruel was one but I don't remember other :/

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Just now, PrincessDia said:

I did calcs about it when I was posting on OU tier discussion thread but I didn't post them to avoid massive wall of calculations. Only 8% of the current OU tier survives or deals more damage than it can drain if you let it bulk up once if I remember correct. I remember Tentacruel was one but I don't remember other :/

1/3rd of the tier beats conkeldurr 1v1 (With reliable sets)

By 1v1 I mean none are switching against each other.

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