Takens Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 @pachima I choose you! Use follow me to protect Conkeldur with some off meta poke and moveset! OrangeManiac 1 Link to comment
PrincessDia Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Takens said: @pachima I choose you! Use follow me to protect Conkeldur with some off meta poke and moveset! He already offered Bold Metagross, Bold Kingdra and Rocky Helmet Swalot/Tentacruel and some other stuff on OU discussion thread if you haven't seen lol I like his ideas but when we are discussing for the health of the tier, gotta disregard them RysPicz 1 Link to comment
PrincessDia Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) Anyone with half a brain can win vs. any other team with such a team with zero effort on prediction and zero RNG risk. IN MY OPINION, any team that doesn't run Conkeldurr, Reuniclus, Hydreigon, a Ghost-type and an extra special wall is not competitive anymore. Mantine and Reuniclus forces out anything Conkeldurr can't switch into. After Conkeldurr clears half of your team, before going down, rest giggles at what remains of your team. If your lead is a support mon that cannot threaten Conkeldurr, you get instant Bulk Ups, oh and this one ran Ice Punch too, you auto-lose your first mon to scouting its moves as usual. lol... Well, I'll quit pvp for a week as OU is becoming more and more dull and unplayable right now. Edited August 28, 2018 by PrincessDia fix Link to comment
MosesBrenner Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) really sad when people refuse to learn and still complain about their walling mechanics. Aard wrote in a similar threat so much informartion and logical things and still you refuse to except it. Result of the threat the smart and more skilled player benefits and the walling non creative guy suffers (you have 2 100% "real" counter if you are worried and a lot of checks. Thats more than other pokemon in the ou got).But ban conkeldurr and be happy with your walling team (hello gen 3). Not the smart wins (who can deal with every situation, gets creative), the louder crying child wins :). The idea of pvp is to grow in prediction skills, experience,....... The way you guys are playing is like. Oh a special attacker------> chansey/blissey no matter what. Oh conkeldurr ---> cofagrigus/dusclops. Then you guys switch between those monster. Without even thinking of predicting some moves and play around resis.Losing is part of the learning process. And to say you need reuniclus, hydreigon,... or you will suffer is even more.. (angry word). Dude there are guys out there beating people in OU with NU and UU. Short question to think about. Maybe conkeldurr is in that spot cause a lot of checks are easily walled by chansey/blissey and you cannot get much out of it.?. Edited August 28, 2018 by MosesBrenner Link to comment
PrincessDia Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 39 minutes ago, MosesBrenner said: the louder crying child wins :) Oh gosh, Conkeldurr fans without valid arguments get provocative pretty quick. I invite you to express your valid points and cry louder if you think it is not banworthy, after reading the topic that is. 39 minutes ago, MosesBrenner said: The way you guys are playing is like. Oh a special attacker------> chansey/blissey no matter what. Oh conkeldurr ---> cofagrigus/dusclops We clearly stated the issue is not Chansey/Blissey related, this not even close to being the case. Oh a Conkeldurr counter/check ---> Reuniclus no matter what Oh a ghost ---> A special wall without ghost weakness no matter what , Oh anything else ----> Conkeldurr this is also valid from your way of thinking ^ 39 minutes ago, MosesBrenner said: Dude there are guys out there beating people in OU with NU and UU. At what skill level exactly? I dare you to bring any NU UU composition against an experienced player's complete OU team, you will barely win once out 30 times maybe? with heavy RNG help and gimmicks if you are very very lucky? I'm happy to test out any NU and UU teams you may bring whenever you want, this is irrevelant and doesn't contribute to topic in any way. 39 minutes ago, MosesBrenner said: Short question to think about. Maybe conkeldurr is in that spot cause a lot of checks are easily walled by chansey/blissey and you cannot get much out of it.?. Or could it be that you are unaware of ways to play around Chansey/Blissey and you are the one refusing to learn about moves like Knock Off/Trick/Switcheroo or you are unaware of existence of wallbreakers offensive teams utilize that can hit both to defensive mons and special defensive mons? And how any of those are a counter argument for any valid arguments provided so far claiming Conkeldurr banworthy? Edited August 28, 2018 by PrincessDia spelling Shuck, RysPicz, Aerun and 1 other 4 Link to comment
pachima Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 hour ago, PrincessDia said: 2 All I see is kingdra subbing on mantine, focus energing on the switch, agility as it loses the subs, and then 6-0 with draco meteor (Providing it doesnt miss) Can we ban kingdra yet? Secondly, ppl should start learning what checking and countering means. From what some posts I have read, some have no idea and still are commenting. Third, I said before and I will repeat, conkeldurr can´t switch in infinitely. Neither can the other 5 Pokemon of the opposing team switch infinitely against whatever opponent sends that beat Conkeldurr. And if you can´t counter infinitely whatever opponent sends against conkeldurr, you also can´t switch out conkeldurr to safety that often. Fourth, People say we should not benefit some styles over another. For instance, offense against stall. But from what I am seeing stall is still the most used strat in this community. It goes both ways. You can´t simply kill offense so people can just stall with their 6 Mons all the time they wish just because its the predominant style. Both styles need to be balanced, and so far, Stall is still superior to Offense (Btw, the argument where conk kills stall is completely useless because Togekiss is in the tier. And if that thing doesn´t absolutely utterly destroy most kinds of style, idk what it does) Fifth, conkeldurr can only have 1 or 2 at max, coverage moves. For some reason I can still not understand people claim Conkeldurr is able to beat 2 or 3 Pokemons of the opposing team just to reveal its scouting moves. I really don´t need to explain what is wrong about this. Unless of course conkeldurr is so busted and so broken that a single Move of them kills 2 Pokemons at once. Lastly, just wanted to mention all this wasn´t specifically directed to you in particular (Just quoted you because that funny little image, where from what I saw, that guy was using all the cool good mons without even thinking about synergy- Maybe besides arca) No, this is directed to everyone. If they disagree, feel free to disagree but at least gib me a valid reason for that. MosesBrenner, Mkns1070 and Maelstrom 3 Link to comment
MosesBrenner Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 i rarely play conkeldurr sry and i am not a big fan of it.in the past i thought it was too strong, but after some discussions with people and some calculations i think its strong but not too strong. AND again you dont read exactly what i wrote...(angry word) i try again :) Short question to think about. Maybe conkeldurr is in that spot cause a lot of checks are easily walled by chansey/blissey and you cannot get much out of it.?. if you now read and understand the question feel free to answer it ty. An advice: its not how to beat chansey.... Link to comment
PrincessDia Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, MosesBrenner said: Short question to think about. Maybe conkeldurr is in that spot cause a lot of checks are easily walled by chansey/blissey and you cannot get much out of it.?. if you now read and understand the question feel free to answer it ty. An advice: its not how to beat chansey.... Yes I understood your question perfectly, If you read the topic and see why we are claiming it's banworthy, you'll see your answer. Advice: read the topic I will not continue to debate this with you as you are not expressing what you think in a mature way. Link to comment
Suneet Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, PrincessDia said: And again, how is that revelant with this topic? Because the bit I quoted vv 2 hours ago, PrincessDia said: IN MY OPINION, any team that doesn't run Conkeldurr, Reuniclus, Hydreigon, a Ghost-type and an extra special wall is not competitive anymore. is laughable, if you think so, you obviously haven't played much OU Luke, suigin and FNTCZ 3 Link to comment
PrincessDia Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, Suneet said: Because the bit I quoted vv is laughable, if you think so, you obviously haven't played much OU I clearly expressed it's a personal opinion, you are free to disagree or laugh but if you are going to be offensive to me personally, you can do it on private message Anything other than that I am very eager to see a valid point to understand why Conkeldurr's current pressure is ok and not banworthy, I'd love to learn from a person who apparently "plays OU much more than I do" Link to comment
MosesBrenner Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Then go to the other threat and read carefully what Aard wrote. Link to comment
MosesBrenner Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Dusclops Impish Nature: 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 65-77 (22.8 - 27.1%) -- 47.2% chance to 4HKO 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Payback (50 BP) vs. 252 HP / 80+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 88-104 (30.9 - 36.6%) -- 60.3% chance to 3HKO Calm Nature: 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Eviolite Dusclops: 71-84 (25 - 29.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Payback (50 BP) vs. 252 HP / 80 Def Eviolite Dusclops: 96-114 (33.8 - 40.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO Impish Nature Full Def: 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 57-68 (20 - 23.9%) -- guaranteed 5HKO 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Payback (50 BP) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Dusclops: 78-92 (27.4 - 32.3%) -- guaranteed 4HKO Link to comment
Kizhaz Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Nidoqueen: 84-99 (21.9 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery If Nidoqueen had Sheer Force I could see it being a good stop, with PoisonPoint it's usefulness in the tier is underwhelming but it is a good stop to Conkel with access to SuperFang to avoid Bulk Up's buffs. Mkns1070 and Suneet 2 Link to comment
pachima Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Kizhaz said: 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 252+ Def Nidoqueen: 84-99 (21.9 - 25.8%) -- possible 5HKO after Black Sludge recovery If Nidoqueen had Sheer Force I could see it being a good stop, with PoisonPoint it's usefulness in the tier is underwhelming but it is a good stop to Conkel with access to SuperFang to avoid Bulk Up's buffs. Ppl be like: No man, Queen is garbage, conkeldurr also has eq which destroys it. EDIT: Weezing is also able to counter it, and that thing was OU not long ago. Edited August 28, 2018 by pachima Suneet 1 Link to comment
Mkns1070 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, pachima said: Ppl be like: No man, Queen is garbage, conkeldurr also has eq which destroys it. Thats the probleme, some pokemon can block it.. But thats not a free switch only if you now the set before bulk up / tpunch / icepunch / fire punch / facade / drain punch - mach punch / eq / stone edge - rock slide .... Suneet 1 Link to comment
Kizhaz Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, pachima said: Ppl be like: No man, Queen is garbage, conkeldurr also has eq which destroys it. Whilst true, I feel like every Conkel has Drain Punch + Mach Punch leaving room for 2 more moves. The most common switch in currently was Mantine so Thunder Punch seems a must and Bulk up makes Drainpunch more spammable making Conkel stay around longer. If you forego Bulk for eq or Ice Punch for Gliscors then Conkel becomes a great wall breaker but with much less longevity pachima 1 Link to comment
Aerun Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, pachima said: Ppl be like: No man, Queen is garbage, conkeldurr also has eq which destroys it. EDIT: Weezing is also able to counter it, and that thing was OU not long ago. I mean, with that logic everything is a conkeldurr's switchin KOHHuiXIN and RysPicz 2 Link to comment
pachima Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Aerun said: I mean, with that logic everything is a conkeldurr's switchin With that logic, Reuniclus is uncounterable as well. Where´s the ban? Link to comment
Mkns1070 Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 ban just DRAIN PUNCH conkeldurr and its over, no need to ban conkeldurr lool it's like hydreagon draco meteor Link to comment
Kizhaz Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 3 minutes ago, MknsZblex said: Thats the probleme, some pokemon can block it.. But thats not a free switch only if you now the set before bulk up / tpunch / icepunch / fire punch / facade / drain punch - mach punch / eq / stone edge - rock slide .... 9/10 times Conk will click Drain Punch turn 1 unless you've shown a switch in (Mantine/Gliscor/Cofag etc.) To which you can scout for moves with double swaps. But the same can be said about many Pokemon. Just because something has unpredictable coverage doesn't make it unbeatable MosesBrenner 1 Link to comment
pachima Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, Kizhaz said: 9/10 times Conk will click Drain Punch turn 1 unless you've shown a switch in (Mantine/Gliscor/Cofag etc.) To which you can scout for moves with double swaps. But the same can be said about many Pokemon. Just because something has unpredictable coverage doesn't make it unbeatable Also, tentacruel is OU. Just saying. Link to comment
PrincessDia Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Kizhaz said: 9/10 times Conk will click Drain Punch turn 1 unless you've shown a switch in (Mantine/Gliscor/Cofag etc.) To which you can scout for moves with double swaps. But the same can be said about many Pokemon. Just because something has unpredictable coverage doesn't make it unbeatable People run 2 fighting types these days, they do not reveal conkeldurr and use other fighting mon first and see what your answer is so they can use the move accordingly. Since once your Check/Counter is out of the way, there isn't much to do about it finishing the game. And if you decide to out-predict it conkeldurr still destroys whatever you have out anyways with it's coverage move, since it was able to switch into it. Clearly abusing lack of team preview. EDIT: Come to think of it, it's still very early for this update to settle and I saw 4 dual fighting teams in 1 day to abuse Conkeldurr. Imagine how things will creep up eventually. Edited August 28, 2018 by PrincessDia clarification Link to comment
pachima Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 Just now, PrincessDia said: People run 2 fighting types these days, they do not reveal conkeldurr and use other fighting mon first and see what your answer is so they can use the move accordingly. Since once your Check/Counter is out of the way, there isn't much to do about it finishing the game. And if you decide to out-predict it conkeldurr still destroys whatever you have out anyways, since it was able to switch into it. Clearly abusing lack of team preview. This is wrong. People don´t run 2 fighting types these days. Also if they did, then it would be even harder for them to switch against stuff, which contradicts your argument of conk is able to come back everytime it pleases because its godly made team switches into everything. Suneet 1 Link to comment
MosesBrenner Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 gyarados impish nature: -1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 248 HP / 184+ Def Gyarados: 63-75 (16 - 19%) -- possible 8HKO after Leftovers recovery -1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 248 HP / 184+ Def Gyarados: 340-404 (86.5 - 102.7%) -- 12.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery -1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 248 HP / 184+ Def Gyarados: 158-186 (40.2 - 47.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery solid check without thunder punch Volcarona Timid with 252 Def: 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 240 HP / 252 Def Volcarona: 110-129 (29.6 - 34.7%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 240 HP / 252 Def Volcarona: 147-173 (39.6 - 46.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO after Leftovers recovery 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 240 HP / 252 Def Volcarona: 273-322 (73.5 - 86.7%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery solid check without rocks up. Salamence Naive: -1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Drain Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 85-101 (25.6 - 30.5%) -- guaranteed 4HKO -1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Thunder Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 114-135 (34.4 - 40.7%) -- guaranteed 3HKO -1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Ice Punch vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 456-540 (137.7 - 163.1%) -- guaranteed OHKO -1 252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Facade (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Salamence: 213-251 (64.3 - 75.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO solid check without ice punch if you go with a Lax or impish nature with roost it's even better. like the other said it depends on the set. Facade seems strong, but then it lacks on other moves. Link to comment
Kizhaz Posted August 28, 2018 Share Posted August 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, PrincessDia said: People run 2 fighting types these days, they do not reveal conkeldurr and use other fighting mon first and see what your answer is so they can use the move accordingly. Since once your Check/Counter is out of the way, there isn't much to do about it finishing the game. And if you decide to out-predict it conkeldurr still destroys whatever you have out anyways, since it was able to switch into it. Clearly abusing lack of team preview. That starts going from "Conk is OP" to good team builds and playing the team effectively. Essentially it's similar to saying "Keeping your win conditions safe until late game gives you a good chance to win". As for team Preview I feel it will neither hinder nor help Conk, it would moreso weed out the better players from the worse pachima and gbwead 2 Link to comment
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