[PSL X] THE TENTH EDITION - HYPE THREAD

[pachima]

MMO- bro showdown - No mons allowed, both trainers fight against each other. All moves allowed.

[DoubleJ]

6 minutes ago, pachima said:

MMO- bro showdown - No mons allowed, both trainers fight against each other. All moves allowed.

Considering I'm the master couch, I'd probably end up like Piccoli screaming "DODGE!" the entire fight. 

[Linken]

actually MMO Ubers would be nice...

i also like the idea of showdown randoms... though maybe make that a best of 3?

[Gunthug]

Anyone seriously suggesting randoms should be banned for a season 

[KaynineXL]

How are we considering not having a showdown tier.. Not only is it tradition, but there's been plenty of success with using them, and sometimes even more so than the PokeMMO tiers.

 

Say what you want about "this is PokeMMO Super League" and thus should only have PokeMMO tiers, but having showdown connects the older PokeMMO players who have no interest in the PokeMMO tiers and would still like to take part in PSL. Personally, I enjoy playing with players I've known for years, it adds to the games because you have years of history with the player, whether that's friendship, beef or maybe someone that's your nemesis, you get my point.

 

DPP has always done well, sure it's had the occasional season when it's not quite been up to standards, but there's always some decent players there.

 

SM OU isn't bad but I feel like it's been used multiple times and never really took off like DPP did.

Edited September 1, 2018 by KaynineXL

[Kimikozen]

5 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

How are we considering not having a showdown tier.. Not only is it tradition, but there's been plenty of success with using them, and sometimes even more so than the PokeMMO tiers.

 

Say what you want about "this is PokeMMO Super League" and thus should only have PokeMMO tiers, but having showdown connects the older PokeMMO players who have no interest in the PokeMMO tiers and would still like to take part in PSL. Personally, I enjoy playing with players I've known for years, it adds to the games because you have years of history with the player, whether that's friendship, beef or maybe someone that's your nemesis, you get my point.

 

DPP has always done well, sure it's had the occasional season when it's not quite been up to standards, but there's always some decent players there.

 

SM OU isn't bad but I feel like it's been used multiple times and never really took off like DPP did.

Spoiler

 

cant lie I shed a tear

Edited September 1, 2018 by Kimikozen

[Suneet]

7 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

How are we considering not having a showdown tier.. Not only is it tradition, but there's been plenty of success with using them, and sometimes even more so than the PokeMMO tiers.

 

Say what you want about "this is PokeMMO Super League" and thus should only have PokeMMO tiers, but having showdown connects the older PokeMMO players who have no interest in the PokeMMO tiers and would still like to take part in PSL. Personally, I enjoy playing with players I've known for years, it adds to the games because you have years of history with the player, whether that's friendship, beef or maybe someone that's your nemesis, you get my point.

 

DPP has always done well, sure it's had the occasional season when it's not quite been up to standards, but there's always some decent players there.

 

SM OU isn't bad but I feel like it's been used multiple times and never really took off like DPP did.

did anyone apart from gb ever suggest no showdown tiers?

[DoctorPBC]

Just now, Suneet said:

did anyone apart from gb ever suggest no showdown tiers?

I did and I stand by it

 

kaynine all the worthy DPP players have moved on, anyone who is still here is probably still reeling from Linken crushing them last season. Simply it is not a tier that can match the competitiveness of the others, and should be cut. If the old boys want to still be a part of PSL then let them join a mmo tier, not a DPP tier which would be nothing more than a joke 

[KaynineXL]

8 minutes ago, Suneet said:

did anyone apart from gb ever suggest no showdown tiers?

Once Gbwead said it, others commented off of it, such as Havs. I'm not sure if Doc was implying if we'd have no showdown as well.

 

edit: there you go, I guess doc was.

 

@DoctorPBC I completely disagree. How have they moved on? There's still plenty of good DPP players and once it becomes a tier again people will go back to practising it. I for one still plays some DPP occasionally and the queues are still alright so the tier is still rocking.

 

I think it's easy for showdown players to go under the radar, it's not like there's an area to show off other than the showdown thread which isn't really used nowadays, but PokeMMO players still play showdown and there's plenty of quality to offer. Look, showdown tiers typically stay the same as well, all the knowledge people learn can stick for years unlike PokeMMO tiers.

Edited September 1, 2018 by KaynineXL

[DoctorPBC]

3 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

Once Gbwead said it, others commented off of it, such as Havs. I'm not sure if Doc was implying if we'd have no showdown as well.

 

edit: there you go, I guess doc was.

 

@DoctorPBC I completely disagree. How have they moved on? There's still plenty of good DPP players and once it becomes a tier again people will go back to practising it. I for one still plays some DPP occasionally and the queues are still alright so the tier is still rocking.

I’ll have you know I disagree based off my previous argument. 

 

We would be better off with another OU, it’d be more competitive and it would open up spots for some less traditional PSL picks 

[KaynineXL]

Just now, DoctorPBC said:

I’ll have you know I disagree based off my previous argument. 

 

We would be better off with another OU, it’d be more competitive and it would open up spots for some less traditional PSL picks 

Hmm, if you're suggesting an extra OU, we'd still have an open spot for another tier, such as DPP or SM OU. I could agree with that, the second showdown tier typically doesn't do so great.

 

Or is PokeMMO LC taking a spot as well? I've not really took the time to read through it.

[gbwead]

44 minutes ago, Suneet said:

did anyone apart from gb ever suggest no showdown tiers?

The anti-showdown revolution has begun long ago and the day, when PSL is no longer burdened by shitty showdown tiers, is near.

Edited September 2, 2018 by gbwead

[RysPicz]

I also do think we should proooobably skip DPP this season. If we would be supposed to play a showdown tier, we would probably want US/UM- DPP has totally different mechanics with crits, hidden power base power, permanent weather from sand (sand all the time actually) and it kinda seems outdated. I would be rooting for US/UM, this is a tier with a lot of options around and a lot of archetypes, all of which are viable- aurora offense, koko screens, rain, trick room, stall... It's a really fun tier without Jirachi flinching every single mon to the win and only TRULY overused poke out there is a Lando-T.

 

US/UM is also future of PokeMMO... r-r-right?

[fredrichnietze]

3 hours ago, Gunthug said:

Anyone seriously suggesting randoms should be banned for a season 

10/10 argument you should join the TC

[Gunthug]

15 minutes ago, fredrichnietze said:

10/10 argument you should join the TC

I was going to read your argument earlier for randoms but then you called it "a argument" and I felt confident it would be more stupid fred bullshit. So instead I'll just use common sense and remain with the opinion that randoms are for people who arent good enough to play actual tiers (or just for blowing off steam) and dont belong in psl except for salty suite 

[DoubleJ]

My proposed tiers:

• PokeMMO OU
• PokeMMO OU
• PokeMMO UU
• PokeMMO UU
• PokeMMO NU
• PokeMMO Doubles
• PokeMMO LC
• Showdown USUM OU

 

I personally believe the two featured tiers should be PokeMMO OU and UU. The majority of players are gravitating towards UU now that it has some stability and after watching a few officials, it really looks like a solid, stable tier with a variety of players showcasing their skills. OU is OU, no brainer. We should definitely include PokeMMO NU and LC this time around, considering NU's growing popularity and the advent of Eviolite for LC. We already have a large LC playerbase that has just been drooling for this moment. Doubles might not have the playerbase, but it offers diversity among PokeMMO singles tiers. 

 

Regarding a Showdown tier: traditionally, we have included a Showdown tier to include and bring back aged players who have since moved on from the grind of PokeMMO. It just isn't sustainable for most people. DPP was the chosen tier for the longest time simply because it was the "future of PokeMMO", later PokeMMO player simply showcased their skill level and so it became a staple. Today, PokeMMO has outgrown DPP and the playerbase just isn't as deep as it used to be. While still a solid tier, I believe it's time to move on. Now, the next step for PokeMMO is Gen 6, which introduced Fairy-typing and Megas. That makes sense, but USUM OU is a more polished version of that with the addition of Alolan pokes too. I personally don't care, but we should keep a Showdown tier regardless. Maybe VGC to add some HYPE among how many AURA players are looking to participate this season. 

 

tl;dr Add PokeMMO NU and LC; keep a Showdown tier, either USUM OU or VGC. 

[RysPicz]

7 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

randoms are for people who arent good enough to play actual tiers (or just for blowing off steam) and dont belong in psl except for salty suite 

BLASPHEMY

[RysPicz]

Wtf phone does not let me edit the post. Gotta make a new one

 

@OrangeManiac I figured you would be the best person to ask. How does the VGC meta look like right now? I haven't played it in a long long time. Is it similar to vgc16 where you had like 5 same mons on every team? We could use some insight from a person like yourself :) 

[KaynineXL]

18 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

DPP was the chosen tier for the longest time simply because it was the "future of PokeMMO"

I don't think that's entirely true, however it probably did contribute towards it. DPP was simply fun and to be honest, more balanced than a lot of the other shit tiers we often saw.

 

I'm not die hard trying to save DPP because I like to play it either, I don't really mind if we have a future gen showdown tier because I find them pretty fun also. I just think DPP already has a proven player base and the others player bases seemed to be lob sided and very short on quality.

[DoubleJ]

2 minutes ago, KaynineXL said:

I don't think that's entirely true, however it probably did contribute towards it. DPP was simply fun and to be honest, more balanced than a lot of the other shit tiers we often saw.

 

I'm not die hard trying to save DPP because I like to play it either, I don't really mind if we have a future gen showdown tier because I find them pretty fun also. I just think DPP already has a proven player base and the others player bases seemed to be lob sided and very short on quality.

I mean, this premise dates all the way back to the original PSL where we chose Gen 3 ADV because it resembled a "finished" version of what PokeMMO was supposed to look like competitively at the time. When Gen 4 DPP OU was first introduced (PSL3), we also attempted to include VGC15 along with our old standby Gen 3 ADV. Unfortunately that was a shitshow, dominated by our Showdown brethren which really brought forth the importance of drafting players skilled outside of PokeMMO. 

 

This is a direct quote from the OG ThinkNice in the PSL3 Smack Talk thread:

• The thing I would like more opinions on though, is replacing ADV OU with DPP OU. Also known as 4th gen OU. As our game is slowly transitioning towards gen IV, it may be cool to have this as a tier in stead of ADV OU, that was supposed to mimick our PokeMMO meta.

 

tl;dr be quiet Kay, I know things because I'm old. 

[NikhilR]

BW OU is kinda fun tbh, and I personally love rain on rain action. The only thing I despise about DPP is paraspam tactics and the infamous BKC stall with TTar / Nidoqueen / Jirachi / Rotom / Clefable / Skarm. Other than that the tier is great, especially with BP ban. 

 

Also, why is it that the people who don't play DPP OU calling for it to be taken off? Playing a few ladder games does not give you an ideal impression of what the tier is like, and neither do most of the games in the previous season. I could easily pick out some of the DPP games in the past 2-4 seasons that have been competitive + interesting. 

 

1) My second ever DPP PSL Game vs Gunt (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-383786282)

2) My game vs Sweet which I thought was kinda interesting (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-387332113)

3) Game vs XPLZ in S6 (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-456436983)

4) The definition of a nail-biter vs Gunt (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-489598271)

5) How I clutched the Komalas' season (was all me carrying the Komalas) (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-496504187)

6) Gunt wrecking me with a surprise lead set (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-607064074)

7) Awesome playing by me as usual vs XPLZ (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-610922324)

8) Definitely a contender for a showdown game to have garnered most amount of drama, vs Kimi (G1 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-612772294 G2 https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-612803952)

9) Got rekt by Kimi :( (https://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen4ou-615568142)

 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by NikhilR

[DoubleJ]

Gunt would do it regardless tbh

[OrangeManiac]

6 hours ago, RysPicz said:

Wtf phone does not let me edit the post. Gotta make a new one

 

@OrangeManiac I figured you would be the best person to ask. How does the VGC meta look like right now? I haven't played it in a long long time. Is it similar to vgc16 where you had like 5 same mons on every team? We could use some insight from a person like yourself :) 

Hey thanks for asking, I'll be happy to give an insight.

 

Okay, so first time ever (or at least since I've been around) the VGC season is spread into 3 different seasons. The rule changes are minor but needless to say they will greatly affect to the teams we will see. The good thing is that when we get to the point everyone gets a hold on what everyone uses, we're already heading into the next format. This prevents us getting seen literally the same thing being played all the time.

 

The common rules to all of these three seasons is that you may only use two "restricted legendaries" in your team (restricted legendaries are: Mewtwo, Lugia, Ho-Oh, Kyogre, Groudon, Rayquaza, Dialga, Palkia, Giratina, Reshiram, Zekrom, Kyurem, Xerneas, Yveltal, Zygarde, Cosmog, Cosmoem, Solgaleo, Lunala, Necrozma). Mythical Pokemon are banned throughout the season, as always. The double restricted metagame allows us to see some very interesting support options in comparison to these two powerhouses. However, what this also means that a team that is build around a certain restricted Pokemon often has the same restricted Pokemon as its friend - and this naturally makes you use the same support options as well.

 

Oh yeah and Dank Void is effectively banned because Smeargle can't use it anymore. Thank fucking god.

 

 

The Sun Series (starting officially in two days) has following rules:

 

- Z-Crystals and Mega Stones are not permitted.

- Blue Orb and Red Orb items are not permitted.

- Rayquaza may not know the move Dragon Ascent. (effectively means Mega-Rayquay is banned)

 

The first series is the most controlled, and therefor the least power hungry metagame. That is a major thing to notice about the Sun format at first. But is it "balanced"? This is hard to argue. See, in the Primal Kyogre/Groudon metagame those two were sort of equally strong. If Primal Groudon switched in for Primal Kyogre, the harsh sunlight would protect it from Water-attacks. In our non-primal metagame the weather balance is twisted - Kyogre is so much better than Groudon due to the fact that even when Groudon switches the weather it has to take enormous damage from Kyogre. Currently the VGC usage in Showdown is 50% Kyogre usage, 15% Groudon usage. It's easy to see how unfairly broken Rain-build teams can be. There are certainly some other restricted options (especially Xerneas but also, Dusk Mane Necrozma, Lunala, Dialga, Mewtwo, Solgaleo, Palkia) being very viable in the metagame so you can build interesting teams based on your double-restricted tandems.

 

 

The Moon series (starting in January) has following rules:

 

- Ultranecrozium Z is not permitted, but other Z-Crystals are permitted.

- Mega Stones are not permitted.

- Blue Orb and Red Orb items are not permitted.

- Rayquaza may not know the move Dragon Ascent.

 

 

Ultimately the same as the first one. Z-crystals probably won't make a huge difference in teambuild. It can give some surprise victories to some players with surprise power Z-moves but ultimately the Pokemon remain quite equally strong. Maybe you can give extra emphasis taking that metagame threat down with a Z-move? That's kinda cool. But I'd probably argue this will be the worst format of the bunch in terms of both the balancing aspect as well as diversity. The least "competitive" metagame for anything a PokeMMO players has used to.

 

And finally the Ultra series going through April 2019 to 2019 World's in August:

 

- No restrictions at all. Everything that can be obtained through legitimate gameplay will be allowed.

 

This is ultimately the copy of VGC 2016, with the exception of some added new viable options - emphasis on Ultra Necrozma. Primals will be as threatening as back in the day, Xerneas still keeps doing Xerneas things. In terms of balance, it might be technically more balanced now that one weather isn't a mile better than the other. However, in terms of diversity - lots of the other restricted Pokemon will simply stay in the sideline that had some potential in earlier formats because kek they need to compete with Primals for team slot. Because of the decreased viability of niche restricted Pokemon, this will probably be the metagame where we see the most often teams that have the same 4-5 Pokemon always and one interesting niche tech option.

 

Basically, in all of these three metagames we see something that PokeMMO players has never been used to - massive power hunger. I have a hard time seeing that a general PokeMMO player would be excited playing this kind of formats considering what they're used to. There are lots of good things in 2019 format, especially the 3 different format system but ultimately they have all the same "problems". VGC and Smogon has always kinda split the Pokemon community in opinions and preferences and I expect it to continue with 2019 format as largely as always.

 

I mean, if you have 2019 format I would be really hyped but trying to look at this objectively.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2018 by OrangeManiac

[Kizhaz]

13 hours ago, fredrichnietze said:

i ... with ... their are winners and looser .... what ... rng ... you ... normal ... choosepokemon .... and ... i .

Fred fix your grammar and punctuation smfh

[fredrichnietze]

4 hours ago, Kizhaz said:

Fred fix your grammar and punctuation smfh

no