Jump to content
  • 8

Proposed rework to the Shiny System.


FNTCZ

Question

I think most people would agree that the shiny market and the whole concept of shiny trade is hurt and in need of healing. Before proposing a solution, I will highlight some of the problems.

 

  • The system is too linear for an mmo: Rare items in most other succesful mmos have at least certain degree of non-linearity attached to them, upgrades, unique or at least very rare characteristics. For instance slots with the right enchantment on them, etc. There is also incentives or factors that make you desire such items. (and actually use them! wear a rare armor or wield a rare and expensive weapon, etc) I think pokemmo tried to approach this whole idea with shiny breeding (making shinies better and differenciating shinies within species from one another: ie, a competitive shiny magikarp vs a random shiny magikarp) and this is indeed the way to goo but there is just so much unexplored potential for improvement, I will expand on this later.
  • Influx and outflux of the quantities are not balanced, the current system doesn't even allow the concept of balance. The shinies that actually go out of the market are the ones being bred, but with our current system the devs can't control and tweak the numbers till a desired influx/output rate is achieved since breeding is not really a core mechanic of the shiny market right now but rather a 'luxury' its not difficult, its not interesting, it is just expensive but other than that is pretty straight forward. Also, some lower tier shinies with bad ivs are just useless, no one will breed them, no one even cares about them, they literally only harm the market.
  • Market stagnation: it is very non-dynamic, too slow, with a high entry barrier. These are three big problems enclosed in one. The market is small and actually kinda boring (this could be seen as a consequence of the above problems)
  • There is no real 'rarity' or 'uniqueness' as @Darkshade mentioned on an earlier reply on the topic, there is a permanent increase of each species. in my opion here, and I am hinting towards my proposed solution is that the only two factors that account the shiny's prize are its species, the ammount of said species that is avaliable to the market and its ivs. The first two cannot be changed, and the third is in a very strange spot right now (because of all the reasons already mentioned) but even then, this one does allow room of change (as it is, pokemmo has a different breeding system to the normal games). There could also more factors added to account for a shinies value that we don't have right now.

 

As I see it all these problems are very closely related,  and as you have probably noticed, ive hinted or talked about shiny breeding in plenty of the points I've made. In my opinion it is simply the holy grial, with the right mechanics to support it, it could actually make shinies interesting and unique.

 

Now, I will state the changes/rework to the current mechanics that I propose and then I will expand on why they just make so much sense, it is actually only two very simple changes with a huge impact.

 

  1.  Make the shiny rate and its spawn ivs deppend on the species rarity; Common shinies will be more common and have better ivs, whereas rare species will be even more rare and will spawn with very bad ivs.
  2.  Change to the shiny breeding mechanics. when breeding two shinies together, add a random factor to the non-braced ivs. (Think of this as the 'core'-upgrade system pretty much every mmo ever uses, image for reference: https://sites.google.com/site/cabalonlinerevealed/_/rsrc/1315820757769/upgrading-items/upgrade-core/Upgrade-Outcomes.png)

 

What does this accomplish? 

 

*It adds up to the endgame It's no longer a linear system, the trading itself will be more active, as will be shiny breeding.

 

*A Bigger, Better market with more interaction. Wether you want to hunt, breed, sell, buy or collect shinies, there will be way more of it, and a greater interess in doing so; more supply, more demand, and rarer 'items'(shinies) that are worth more.

 

*Decent competitive shinies (and thus an actual use for shinies) are more accesible. Yeah, now breeding a perfect shiny comp would be a very difficult task, it'd involve patience, some luck but mainly buying and breeding lower tier shinies a lot, this makes the market way more active. But you could also choose to breed non-perfect, above average and usable competitive shinies.

 

*Easier to get the 'first taste' of the system to get in touch and engaged with more players. (Entry barrier) Say you are a new player, now the chances of getting a common during the storyline shiny is way higher, and this does not hurt the market, on the other hand, it feeds it and makes it grow! you can now decide what to do with your OT shiny rattata, sell it? (it will be desired even tho it is common because now multiple breeds are needed to have a chance to improve results)  hunt for more commons and breed them? make a godlike rattata? hunt for rares to breed with your nice iv rattata? whatever you decide, it will be cool and you will get curious about how the shiny system works, you will be asking questions in global/channel/trade chat and you will be more engaged with the game itself. (right now the only question you can ask is: "how much is this worth [Rattata]" not "what can I do with this" since as the system is now, shiny breeding/trading is out of the question for more casual players). it will get you going.

 

*Numbers can be tweked. the chance of an iv being lowered during a breed can deppend on the average, devs can find the right probability values so that the expected value of a single process of breeding is an okay competitive result, yet the near-perfect rolls are very rare and thus the shiny becomes unique and expensive... (think of a normal or an f distribution). with these, you can actually balance the market's influx and output

 

*Every shiny is now unique and has room for improvement, this is an addictive conecpt.  (Have you ever spent tons and tons of cores in those old mmos to get your Rare sword from +12 to +13? Sure, +12 was good enough to use but you wanted +13 right?. see how this applies here?)

 

*Every shiny will be unique. wether its value comes from its species, its ivs or an extensive breeding process, each and every shiny will have something (besides the aesthetics) that makes it worth. there will no longer be common, bad iv shinies that no one desires.

 

Ive tought of more and I could go onto the specifics but to be honest i'm a little tired of writing all of this so I will just let you decide for yourself.

 

QA:

 

Q: This will hurt collectors and hunters who are not interested in a shiny's ivs or competitive usage.

A: No, it will not! On the contrary, since more rare species would have a lower shiny rate, even if its ivs are bad it makes them more desireable and expensive (and more valuable to collectors regardless of the ivs). They could be worth more with worse ivs than they would with our current system!

 

Q: Transitioning period.

A: Designing this is obviously necesary, the specifics could be studied so the best result is obtained where everyone will be happier, I have actually tought of some ideas around the implementation but I'm to tired to expand on them, if this does get traction I will do so later on.

 

Feel free to add any more questions, opinions or ideas.

 

 

Edited by FNTCZ
grammar
Link to comment

Recommended Posts

  • 0
3 minutes ago, Goku said:

Well technically... It went from 8192 to 30 000. There wasn't a thing like hordes.. are you missing smth?

well there you go it was actually easier for you to find single encounter shinies back then. Even less reason for you to complain then.

Link to comment
  • 0
15 minutes ago, Goku said:

Ermmm first of all I'm not complaining about other players having a piece of the cake, but once everyone has a piece there won't be a cake left.

so if everyone has his/her desired shiny there will be no shinies left?

 

25 minutes ago, Goku said:

Also feel free to call the "smarter" players fcking parasites while you can grind your poor ass off in order to make a comp while they can buy a few boxes because of what they do. Your logic just doesn't make sense to me. SORRY.

so exploiting people who lack knowledge is a smart thing, i see. in the land of blind, the one-eyed man is king, right?

 

im pretty wealthy tho. not rich, but i can breed and buy what i want and need and the best part of it - i can go to bed knowing i didnt harm other people, so really dont need your pity here. thanks tho.

Link to comment
  • 0
9 minutes ago, Coge said:

well there you go it was actually easier for you to find single encounter shinies back then. Even less reason for you to complain then.

Ermm no it was not. 8000 single encounters = 40k in horde of 5. Also wasn't guaranteed. 40k>30k. Shiny hunting wasn't even big at that time cuz 2013 was lucky egg hunting if you were here and 2014 was breeding. When hordes first realized it was then that people started sweet scenting the shit out of magmar, electabuzz, farfetched and other rares that was removed cuz devs saw it was problematic. I mean seriously man if you can't see the change just embrace it cuz believe me it is there and it is big.

Link to comment
  • 0
4 minutes ago, DrButler said:

so if everyone has his/her desired shiny there will be no shinies left?

 

so exploiting people who lack knowledge is a smart thing, i see. in the land of blind, the one-eyed man is king, right?

 

im pretty wealthy tho. not rich, but i can breed and buy what i want and need and the best part of it - i can go to bed knowing i didnt harm other people, so really dont need your pity here. thanks tho.

Ermm no there will be a dead shiny market.

The one eyed man has the bigger advantage obviously.

Yeh man honestly lately I couldn't get sleep because of taking advantage of someone who finds a rare under 100 hours and I have been here 7k hours. Do you see how silly you sound? It's called life.

Edit: just merge my db post thx.

Edited by Goku
Link to comment
  • 0
Just now, Goku said:

Ermm no there will be a dead shiny market.

a dead market means everybody has what he wants. what the heck is wrong with that?

 

2 minutes ago, Goku said:

The one eyed man has the bigger advantage obviously.

He still lacks an eye tho. I think you dont really understand what i was trying to express, which just proves my point. funny.

 

4 minutes ago, Goku said:

Yeh man honestly lately I couldn't get sleep because of taking advantage of someone who finds a rare under 100 hours and I have been here 7k hours. Do you see how silly you sound? It's called life.

ye, taking advantage of others is called life. did you grow up among animals by any chance?

Link to comment
  • 0

3 hours ago, Goku said:

Those rich people, most of them worked hard to obtain their wealth when the shiny market was stable and a lot of them have been here since 2013 / 2014 when you weren't. So plz be considerate towards them and stop your hate posting.

50 minutes ago, Goku said:

Also feel free to call the "smarter" players fcking parasites while you can grind your poor ass off in order to make a comp while they can buy a few boxes because of what they do.

6 minutes ago, Goku said:

Yeh man honestly lately I couldn't get sleep because of taking advantage of someone who finds a rare under 100 hours and I have been here 7k hours. Do you see how silly you sound? It's called life.

I am maybe rather new here, but have been around long enough to know, that in 2013/2014 the nominal value of certain shinies back then would seem ridiculous if you compare it to what they are still worth now.
If something lost value during the time you chose to hold onto it instead of selling it - it is simply you who predicted the development wrong.
So you missed the 'right' point to sell something -
regrettable - but still missing a reason why thy rest of the community needs to "lose any sleep" about it...
 

Going by what you said - the persons affected still hold onto enough money to afford more than others.
Why would the rest of the community need to make up (e.g. via lowered shiny chances) for the lost value of some of their assets then?

Link to comment
  • 0
11 minutes ago, DrButler said:

a dead market means everybody has what he wants. what the heck is wrong with that?

 

He still lacks an eye tho. I think you dont really understand what i was trying to express, which just proves my point. funny.

 

ye, taking advantage of others is called life. did you grow up among animals by any chance?

If you think everybody can have what they want in life you're living in a fantasy my boy.

 

You're contradicting yourself dude. Anyways you're just shitposting atm. Don't get heated when you don't have a valid argument to bring to the table. Besides you're not even a shiny trader in this game so like arguing with you is just a waste of my time. 

Edited by Goku
Link to comment
  • 0
2 minutes ago, Anthrazit said:

Why would the rest of the community need to make up (e.g. via lowered shiny chances) for the lost value of some of their assets then?

Currently there are no set values and a lot of people are confused as of to what shinies are worth in the current "market". A lot of people are investing in limited vanities as they feel more safe to do so. A market shouldn't be in a condition where traders have no certainty in any buys or too afraid to invest in anything because they are afraid of losing money. 

Link to comment
  • 0
20 hours ago, Anthrazit said:

I am confused by this part - competitive shinies won't become more accessible if you want to make them more/very difficult to get...
The second half of this paragraph describes options that are already in place with the current breeding mechanics. Thus "an actual use for shinies" does already exist.

There will be more common shinies with better ivs, shiny breeding will indeed be more accesible this way, only not for the rarer species or for the perfect iv mons, but stuff like a comp gengar, mamoswine, etc will be more accesible. Regarding your last sentence no, there are plenty of "useless" shinies right now, those tentacruels and low tier shinies that do not have good ivs what does anyone want them for? nothing. with the proposed changes every single shiny will be worth something, be it for their ivs

 

20 hours ago, Anthrazit said:

The current suggestion chooses to increase the value of (rare/high IV) shinies that are already in the possession of players by making those harder to get.
This happens at the expense of any (future) shiny hunters/breeders.

think of when the OG breeding system of pokemmo changed to what it is now (back in 2012 or so) you used not to lose the parents as you bred and this way a lot of players were basically free cloning 6x31 pokemon.. the change they implemented then sure happened at the expense of future comp players and breeders but it was for the better of the economy, wouldn't you agree?

 

20 hours ago, Anthrazit said:

How?
Even if you make it more difficult, the option for others to find exactly what you got is still existent.

The ivs also define rare pokemon, and you would have to go through an extensive breeding process in order to make your rare shiny differenciate itself from other shinies of the same species and even then there is no guarantee. right now all you need to make a 5x31 shiny is some cash, there is nothing else to the equation. also as I said before there will no longer be shinies whose only factor of value is the fact that they are shiny while they do not have any added value because they are unusable (low tier bad iv shinies)

 

20 hours ago, Anthrazit said:

If you want to make it easier for them to participate in the market, it would be best if they are made aware of the actual worth of anything they are holding.

This would come as a natural consecuence of a more active market > more information exchange amongst the parties.

Edited by FNTCZ
word
Link to comment
  • 0
1 hour ago, FNTCZ said:

[...] shiny breeding will indeed be more accesible this way, only not for the rarer species or for the perfect iv mons

[...] The ivs also define rare pokemon, and you would have to go through an extensive breeding process in order to make your rare shiny differenciate itself from other shinies of the same species and even then there is no guarantee. right now all you need to make a 5x31 shiny is some cash, there is nothing else to the equation.

21 hours ago, Anthrazit said:

You do not need to rely on rolls - you could simply make all needed breeders and be safe, especially if common species have better IVs overall.

Unless I understood you wrong and you want to entirely remove the ability to breed any IVs safely (be it via braces or because both parents share the same IV)?
In that case it would maybe discourage the use of the shiny breeding system and result in a lowered outflux of shinies.

 

1 hour ago, FNTCZ said:

[...] there are plenty of "useless" shinies right now, those tentacruels and low tier shinies that do not have good ivs what does anyone want them for? nothing. with the proposed changes every single shiny will be worth something, be it for their ivs

21 hours ago, Anthrazit said:

In addition to the ones you mentioned yourself, more "older" common shinies would add to the list of undesired ones since their IVs would fall short of the newly introduced ones.

1 hour ago, FNTCZ said:

think of when the OG breeding system of pokemmo changed to what it is now (back in 2012 or so) you used not to lose the parents as you bred and this way a lot of players were basically free cloning 6x31 pokemon.. the change they implemented then sure happened at the expense of future comp players and breeders but it was for the better of the economy, wouldn't you agree?

The analogy is imprecise, as the 'new breeding system' gave more control towards players and lowered the dependence on luck while you propose the opposite.
Concerning values, maybe the closest to 'rare shinies' made less accessible were genderless breeds - and even this issue has been corrected as of late.
The breeding system also provided a possible outflux - which is encouraged time and again - for older comps while your suggestion lacks the idea of an outflux for older rare shinies.

Link to comment
  • 0
21 hours ago, DrButler said:

a dead market means everybody has what he wants. what the heck is wrong with that?

It's dead?

 

What makes obtaining a shiny a satisfying experience (as with any other commodity that fits into a similar category) is a mixture of monetary value and rarity.

If you take these things away, that reward/satisfaction is gone - it's not special anymore; which is their purpose in design.

Link to comment
  • 0
Just now, Darkshade said:

It's dead?

 

What makes obtaining a shiny a satisfying experience (as with any other commodity that fits into a similar category) is a mixture of monetary value and rarity.

If you take these things away, that reward/satisfaction is gone - it's not special anymore.

if theres no demand it means everybodies satisfied, so whats wrong with that? i do understand that you need a market and demand going to have people play this game and keep the "donations" coming tho.

 

cant relate to that value/rarity e-peen stuff, so ill just pretend to understand/agree.

Link to comment
  • 0
On 7/22/2018 at 6:35 PM, Darkshade said:

It's dead?

 

What makes obtaining a shiny a satisfying experience (as with any other commodity that fits into a similar category) is a mixture of monetary value and rarity.

If you take these things away, that reward/satisfaction is gone - it's not special anymore; which is their purpose in design.

Well Rarity as in (it's not common for everyone to have the same shiny) is fading away and so is the "monetary" / financial value. I mean like comp players have like 2 main reasons they play comp. To enjoy the thrill and to win comp Gift shinies that they can use and show off to the community and their friends. It's literally easier right now to breed a shiny with similar IV's and a decent nature than to win an official tournament where your odds are 1/64. So like it doesn't only affect shiny traders but might discourage comp players cuz the only 'financial-related' prize they get is that 1.5-2mil.

Link to comment
  • 0
42 minutes ago, DrButler said:

sure, its pretty damn easy to quickly breed a 4x25 2x31 shiny with egg moves, just takes 15-20m, but hey, exchange money, right? especially when you breed comps all day to be able to compete. also shiny prizes arent trophies for an accomplishment and thus more valueable than an unknown ot random shiny or anything.

 

you´re so full of shit it hurts.

Lmfao you have the same mentality as a 5 year old child. Just get a sucker and keep your irrelevant comments to yourself. You clearly aren't able to listen to the opinions of others and only to your own self centered ones. I didn't say 4*25 and 2*31. I said similar to that. We all get it, you don't give a shit about shinies. The OP of this thread made it for a reason. He plays comp and even he can see the shiny market is currently a problem. He made this thread because he and a lot of other players are seeking a solution for what is happening in the market right now.

 

On 7/22/2018 at 7:12 PM, DrButler said:

so ill just pretend to understand/agree.

Yeh you do that. If you have any further questions feel free to message me directly.

Edited by Goku
Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.