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Earning money from killing wild pokes


Eggplant

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Hey hey.

There are a bunch of threads all over the place about broken economy and stuff.

 

Here's my take on the matter.

I believe that the ideal scenario is one where playtime = money.

However, in pokemmo, that's not the case.

It's like there's two different gameplays:

  • regular endgame content (breeding, ev traning, exp'ing, pvp)
  • consciously farming money.

And they are mutually exclusive in many areas.

You don't generate money off the system by doing any of those aforementioned things.

 

However they do align during the story: A lot of trainers are required to defeat, and they give you money. Everyone is rich, the world is perfect.

 

But as soon as the story ends, you move onto a gameplay that focuses much more on wild pokes.

You catch breeders, or you ev train, or you exp grind on hordes to 100, or you hunt shinies....

They all involve battling wild pokemon. Wild pokemon battles are at the center of this game -- not trainer battles.

 

In most mmos, the primary gameplay is just killing monsters, and they always drop (money + some other loot).

Then you sell this 'other loot' (like slime remains or leftover bones) for EVEN MORE money.

Those 2 main sources of 'gameplay=money' are non-existent.

 

In pokemmo, you have to go out of your way to do a conscious money-grinding game (payday or gym leader runs) which nobody really appreciates -- and even have somewhat of an entry bar if you just finished story and have crap level 60s.

 

While it's not quite 'pokemon logic' for pokemon to drop money, it's definitely standard game logic, and people will get used to it fast.

 

 

People will always find ways to make money off each other in any game, and that's totally fine.

The thing that sets pokemmo apart is the fact that generating money off the system is more annoying than any other standard game.

 

If wild spawns drop money, people will passively farm money and eventually be able to afford some stuff just from playing regularly without really trying - even if it's not a ton.

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6 minutes ago, Eggplant said:

[...] people will passively farm money and eventually be able to afford some stuff just from playing regularly without really trying [...]

Since everybody would passively gain money, more money is added in total into the system, prices will rise accordingly and the real wage will not rise, which means people would not be able to actually afford more than before.

 

6 minutes ago, Eggplant said:

[...]

Wild pokemon battles are at the center of this game -- not trainer battles.

 

In most mmos, the primary gameplay is just killing monsters, and they always drop (money + some other loot).

Then you sell this 'other loot' (like slime remains or leftover bones) for EVEN MORE money.

Those 2 main sources of 'gameplay=money' are non-existent.

 

In pokemmo, you have to go out of your way to do a conscious money-grinding game (payday or gym leader runs) which nobody really appreciates

[...]

You did point out that one version of this already existst: When using the move 'Payday' you do get the desired money drop from killing monsters, and if you use a Meowth with the ability 'Pickup' or you rely on the random drop chances alone, you may still get the desired loot drop as well.

 

6 minutes ago, Eggplant said:

[...]

I believe that the ideal scenario is one where playtime = money.

However, in pokemmo, that's not the case.

[...]

The thing that sets pokemmo apart is the fact that generating money off the system is more annoying than any other standard game.

I think the equation is more like
Benefit = (Money+Fun)/Time

 

I'd therefor like to emphasize that the game 'just' needs a way to make money that is enough 'fun' to make it worth your time.
(Alternatively, a way to make enough money to make it worth not having fun during that time >.< )

Did you choose the best way for you from all current ways available? The one that is most fun for you - since you seemed to mention
- Payday farming
- Gym Leader runs
but not specifically others with their respective benefits, such as
- Buy low, Sell-high (by using Trade Chat or the GTL)
- Berry Farming (good if you afk a lot)
- BP Farming ('fun' for people that are more into competitive battles and also beneficial as the value of BP is currently up)
- rebattling the E4 (there is a thread here on the forums on how to speedrun them to get the highest payout/time)
- Pickup (often an additional method of farming that you use for 'free' while Payday farming or while training EVs)
- catching Pokémon to sell them (e.g. Breeders)
- Events (ok, maybe low prospect of winning the RPs/money involved but in the best case a lot of 'fun' to make up for it)
...

So the question is, is there no fun and worthwhile way yet, or have you simply not yet found yours?
In both cases, I have high hopes that Dungeons may offer you enough 'Money+Fun' to qualify as a solution once they are available (again).

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14 hours ago, Eggplant said:

Hey hey.

There are a bunch of threads all over the place about broken economy and stuff.

 

Here's my take on the matter.

I believe that the ideal scenario is one where playtime = money.

However, in pokemmo, that's not the case.

It's like there's two different gameplays:

  • regular endgame content (breeding, ev traning, exp'ing, pvp)
  • consciously farming money.

And they are mutually exclusive in many areas.

You don't generate money off the system by doing any of those aforementioned things.

 

However they do align during the story: A lot of trainers are required to defeat, and they give you money. Everyone is rich, the world is perfect.

 

But as soon as the story ends, you move onto a gameplay that focuses much more on wild pokes.

You catch breeders, or you ev train, or you exp grind on hordes to 100, or you hunt shinies....

They all involve battling wild pokemon. Wild pokemon battles are at the center of this game -- not trainer battles.

 

In most mmos, the primary gameplay is just killing monsters, and they always drop (money + some other loot).

Then you sell this 'other loot' (like slime remains or leftover bones) for EVEN MORE money.

Those 2 main sources of 'gameplay=money' are non-existent.

 

In pokemmo, you have to go out of your way to do a conscious money-grinding game (payday or gym leader runs) which nobody really appreciates -- and even have somewhat of an entry bar if you just finished story and have crap level 60s.

 

While it's not quite 'pokemon logic' for pokemon to drop money, it's definitely standard game logic, and people will get used to it fast.

 

 

People will always find ways to make money off each other in any game, and that's totally fine.

The thing that sets pokemmo apart is the fact that generating money off the system is more annoying than any other standard game.

 

If wild spawns drop money, people will passively farm money and eventually be able to afford some stuff just from playing regularly without really trying - even if it's not a ton.

The way game is set up (reliant on trading and re-battling) money grinding on wilds have more negative effect than good. Especially if you set it % based with luck. What will happen is, shiny values will drop since u can farm in an area of which shiny you wish to find and grind money at the same time. Secondly, it will plummet the gtl since people will be less relying on item trading and just grind money in the wild. 

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47 minutes ago, Malorne said:

The way game is set up (reliant on trading and re-battling) money grinding on wilds have more negative effect than good. Especially if you set it % based with luck. What will happen is, shiny values will drop since u can farm in an area of which shiny you wish to find and grind money at the same time. Secondly, it will plummet the gtl since people will be less relying on item trading and just grind money in the wild. 

It would happen if this is the best way of earning money. Point of eggplant (as i understand it) is to give any cash for battles, not to make it best option.

The point of doing it is to weave a bit of money earning to the playing itself. Ppl will get some money while not mindlessly farming Gyms/NPC

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Only adding 20-50k to an account a day I don't see why not. PLEASE?

 

maybe 50-100 poke yen to a fainted mon is acceptable with making 400-500 poke yen hordes and such. It would make a fine feature to add into PokeMMO

 

magikarp fainted 84 poke yen (added)

magikarp fainted 55 poke yen (added)

magikarp fainted 62 poke yen (added)

magikarp fainted 96 poke yen (added)

 

and so fourth, making it feel as if I was doing something and still ending up pretty fulfilled

Edited by Millionminds
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Well if the Money you can earn passiv rises, you have to adjust NPC Prices in my opinion.

Because otherwise you could just buy everything of npcs if the market rises to much because of the new added money.

But there are some things that would be cool to add like titles for fainting X Amount of the Same Pokemon.

Maybe even a Sticker or something that is displayed on your trainer card. 

Adding Money drops to Pokemons would also completly destroy payday. Because why would you use a Payday Single Target attack if you could just AOE hordes an get the same money.

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18 minutes ago, ShinyMrT said:

Well if the Money you can earn passiv rises, you have to adjust NPC Prices in my opinion.

Because otherwise you could just buy everything of npcs if the market rises to much because of the new added money.

But there are some things that would be cool to add like titles for fainting X Amount of the Same Pokemon.

Maybe even a Sticker or something that is displayed on your trainer card. 

Adding Money drops to Pokemons would also completly destroy payday. Because why would you use a Payday Single Target attack if you could just AOE hordes an get the same money.

1.They won't increase the payment duel to the amount of NPC Unova give you

2.Pay day + pick up is a thing to grind $ to so why you want pkm to drop $ ?

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1 minute ago, Acarus said:

1.They won't increase the payment duel to the amount of NPC Unova give you

2.Pay day + pick up is a thing to grind $ to so why you want pkm to drop $ ?

I guess you understand me wrong, i'm against the increase of the payments and i'm against the $ drop by pokemon.

My post was refering to Millionminds post.

I just wanted to state reasons why it wouldn't really work.

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Since the game eats up your money when you buy things, it's natural that a healthy economy is one where the game produces the same amount of cash and puts it back into the economy.

So when I talk about reliable money-making methods, payday, gym runs and alt runs are THE ONLY methods available -- the rest can be ignored.

Players will always find ways to make money off each other, but ultimately, the problems in the economy are unrelated to how players trade their cash amongst themselves.

It's about money sinks and money fountains. For a long time, pokemmo struggled to have money sinks and everyone had too much money (in 2012) -- now it's the opposite.

 

The problem is that 'generating money off of the game' is reserved to the PvE elite who have comp level 100s and speedrun the gyms over and over.

It's completely ridiculous that a casual player can put in 100 hours post-game to complete their pokedex, and make $0.

That a player can make $0 from exp grinding six pokes to level 100, farming thousands of hordes. That a player can catch a hundred breeders to make a cool comp, but can't breed it because he made $0 and can't afford the 15k braces.

 

Farming money should not be a separate gameplay from the rest of the game. And I think that's the main problem.

Having wild pokes drop $ is just my solution to address it.

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9 hours ago, Eggplant said:

Since the game eats up your money when you buy things, it's natural that a healthy economy is one where the game produces the same amount of cash and puts it back into the economy.

 

The problem is that 'generating money off of the game' is reserved to the PvE elite who have comp level 100s and speedrun the gyms over and over.

It's simply not though.

Maybe some of the better money making methods, but general rematches are not out of scope for the 'Non Elite' (Although I think Elite is a strong term here).

Not to mention other mechanics such as berry growing, which only requires a little bit of time on behalf of the player and can then be used to turn a profit if desired, while allowing them to help boost the economy.

 

9 hours ago, Eggplant said:

It's completely ridiculous that a casual player can put in 100 hours post-game to complete their pokedex, and make $0.

Not true.

Although said player is investing their time into something that is naturally going to sink their money (They're being rewarded in the form of new species), the passive form of pickup will supply them with items they could sell.

In addition, if they're going out of their way to complete the 'dex they're going to be catching many different species, a large majority will have a chance at holding items that can also be sold or used.

 

9 hours ago, Eggplant said:

That a player can make $0 from exp grinding six pokes to level 100, farming thousands of hordes.

The passive form of pickup applies here too, as does being rewarded with a better team and having EVs applied.

 

 

9 hours ago, Eggplant said:

That a player can catch a hundred breeders to make a cool comp, but can't breed it because he made $0 and can't afford the 15k braces.

And again, the passive form of pickup and the chance of obtaining held items to sell also apply here.

 

9 hours ago, Eggplant said:

Farming money should not be a separate gameplay from the rest of the game. And I think that's the main problem.

 

Having wild pokes drop $ is just my solution to address it.

 

It absolutely should be with any reliable amount of $, giving a reliable amount of $ for just actively participating in the game would be a deteriment to the economy and cause a large amount of inflation.

Take your concept and apply it to real life; if I could earn a decent amount of money for cooking myself dinner or taking a shower etc. that would be great for me, but it wouldn't be good for the overall economy.

Inflation would ensue as the average amount of money each person has goes up - and in the case of PokeMMO, so does the amount of money that exists in the world.

Prices will rise to compensate, and we'd have to change the amount that we're sinking in each area as well as the prices of things within Marts just to keep up with the amount of gold being generated.

 

Take a look at any other MMO and name one that gives a 'reliable' amount of money for the time you spend killing mobs.

I know you're personally familiar with Runescape so I'll use it as an example.

While the mobs in Runescape drop very small amounts of gold, none of them drop anywhere near enough for it to be worth the time invested, or for it to really be usable in the general buying/purchasing of goods or services.

 

This is because if they did so in any meaningful way, you'd have the problems mentioned above; this applies to pretty much any MMO in existence, which I'm sure you'll find also have designated gameplay mechanics for making reliable amounts of money.

What they do give is common items that drop from monsters that you kill, alongside the occasional rare drop - both of which can be sold to other players or NPCs or used later to save themself some gold.

Both of which we already effectively do.

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

I know you're personally familiar with Runescape so I'll use it as an example.

While the mobs in Runescape drop very small amounts of gold, none of them drop anywhere near enough for it to be worth the time invested, or for it to really be usable in the general buying/purchasing of goods or services.

I know we're on the same side an all, but DS, Slayer is one of the best money making methods in RS. RS is great because you have the option to burn through money for the fastest xp gains possible, or train at a slower, yet still reasonable rate and turn a profit / break even, and even still, you can go the super slow xp route that results in a lot of money. The point is, is that there is a gradient in RS for XP - Money gain. We don't really have that gradient here... Either you spend a lot of money to make your account better, or you spend time making money and don't advance your account; they're pretty mutually exclusive here. And to top it off, the common solely-make-money-method here isn't that rewarding... It's like, what?, 1.5 hours to do a full gym run of Kanto and Hoenn, which nets you about 165k... Aka, 16 breeding braces; not even enough to make 8 2x31's (cause you still have to account for pokeballs and gender).

From personal experience it is a pain to make money in this game.

 

Spoiler

don't fire me plz

 

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3 minutes ago, Gilan said:

Slayer is one of the best money making methods in RS.

Slayer is a specific skill though (much like regular NPC re-battles in this case), and not your everyday mob kill.

 

4 minutes ago, Gilan said:

 RS is great because you have the option to burn through money for the fastest xp gains possible, or train at a slower, yet still reasonable rate and turn a profit / break even, and even still, you can go the super slow xp route that results in a lot of money. The point is, is that there is a gradient in RS for XP - Money gain. We don't really have that gradient here... Either you spend a lot of money to make your account better, or you spend time making money and don't advance your account; they're pretty mutually exclusive here. And to top it off, the common solely-make-money-method here isn't that rewarding... It's like, what?, 1.5 hours to do a full gym run of Kanto and Hoenn, which nets you about 165k... Aka, 16 breeding braces; not even enough to make 8 2x31's (cause you still have to account for pokeballs and gender).

From personal experience it is a pain to make money in this game.

I don't disagree at all that there need to be more options available for making money (and we have dungeons on the way as one of them), but what is effectively passive income is not really the way to go about it.

All of the examples given do reward you with benefits other than money, but they're being disregarded for not being the focus of the topic.

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2 hours ago, Darkshade said:

Take a look at any other MMO and name one that gives a 'reliable' amount of money for the time you spend killing mobs.

I know you're personally familiar with Runescape so I'll use it as an example.

While the mobs in Runescape drop very small amounts of gold, none of them drop anywhere near enough for it to be worth the time invested, or for it to really be usable in the general buying/purchasing of goods or services.

 

This is because if they did so in any meaningful way, you'd have the problems mentioned above; this applies to pretty much any MMO in existence, which I'm sure you'll find also have designated gameplay mechanics for making reliable amounts of money.

What they do give is common items that drop from monsters that you kill, alongside the occasional rare drop - both of which can be sold to other players or NPCs or used later to save themself some gold.

Both of which we already effectively do.

I think the point is to add gold award for playing the game without making it reliable method of generating $.

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3 hours ago, Darkshade said:

Take a look at any other MMO and name one that gives a 'reliable' amount of money for the time you spend killing mobs.

Mhhh, Ragnarok? Metin2? GW2? WoW? Warframe ? Not cash directly, but the influx of items that the mobs drop is a lot more relevant than what happens in PokeMMO, that is a complete grind fest and in the end, doens't feel rewarding at all.

Edited by redspawn
typo
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Right, most games, for killing mobs, you get money + items.

Then you sell the items and get money+money.

 

Pokemmo kinda had neither--assuming you don't pickup.

 

It seems I must be really underestimating pickup, if you can bring it up as a counter argument to like 10 points.

I'll give it a shot.

Edited by Eggplant
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1 minute ago, Eggplant said:

It seems I must be really underestimating pickup, if you can bring it up as a counter argument to like 10 points.

I'll give it a shot.

Previous to unova, with pickup, on E4 victory road, with a linoone from lvl 55 to 100 w/lucky egg, so not max encounters, you'd make like 200-400k just from there, thing is, items lost value due to supply and demand blablabla, while I agree it isn't terrible, it literally forces the players to use a very specific set of monsters, if they want to play optimally PvE wise, and even then it's not that rewarding at all time-money ratio is bad.

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But there are enough ways to make money in this Game, for example i quit 2 years ago and started again this week. I had 1,2 mio left from when i quit but doing the elite 4 in unova used up all my previous money + all the money i got from the story itself. So after i finished the story i wanted to breed comps which is a money sink. But if you are getting your breeders the smart way its no where near that expensive and you get a lot of money. I went to the Safari Zone in Kanto which cost me 500$ to do and catched all Breeders i need like Rhyhorn ( They also hold Protector which nets 15k$), Paras ( They can Hold Small and Big Mushrooms they give 2k/5k each), Chansey (i got like 4 lucky eggs this week which sell for ~590k), Venomoth (They have Silverdust which sells for around 20k) and here and there you can catch a Tauros which sells for a decent amount if you have the right nature and ok stats (I Always have a Jolly Synchro as 1st in team).

So You have a Box full of Breeders, enough money to breed, the chance for Shinys ( rofl ) and a nice time in the safari zone :)

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7 hours ago, ShinyMrT said:

I went to the Safari Zone in Kanto which cost me 500$ to do and catched all Breeders i need like Rhyhorn

And do you really think Time-Money wise, it was worth it? I can assure you, it wasn't, especially if you play for the compeittive scene, and want to remain competitive, you don't want just 6 comps, people have boxes of comps, so hunting all the breeders, everstones etc, takes so much time, it's not worth it.  Also, keep in mind, you were pretty lucky to get that many lucky eggs if you're not dedicated to only hunting chanseys there.

By buying the breeders, you can breed a 5x31 in 45 mins to 1 hour, ofc going by the lowest time to hatch eggs, while if you hunt everything you maybe do 1 breed per 2 days, plus you're not even guaranteed to have cash after, cause well, you just spent 2 days gathering breeders for yourself, and you make what? 200k-300k cash from that?

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40 minutes ago, redspawn said:

And do you really think Time-Money wise, it was worth it? I can assure you, it wasn't, especially if you play for the compeittive scene, and want to remain competitive, you don't want just 6 comps, people have boxes of comps, so hunting all the breeders, everstones etc, takes so much time, it's not worth it.  Also, keep in mind, you were pretty lucky to get that many lucky eggs if you're not dedicated to only hunting chanseys there.

By buying the breeders, you can breed a 5x31 in 45 mins to 1 hour, ofc going by the lowest time to hatch eggs, while if you hunt everything you maybe do 1 breed per 2 days, plus you're not even guaranteed to have cash after, cause well, you just spent 2 days gathering breeders for yourself, and you make what? 200k-300k cash from that?

Well sure i can buy everything of the gtl but what do i do all day then? Iwant everything OT, non OT or OT* are worth nothing to me i just use them to resell or for utility stuff but ofc there are people who don't care about that which is ok aswell. 

Also if i buy everything of the GTL i spend around 200k for the breeders alone + the cost for the gender and the IV keep items. 

The point is you make money and get the breeders you need. The 200k you safe by getting the breeders instead of buying comes on top of the money you make in safari with the items that drop.

Sure it highly depense on luck if you get a lucky egg. But this is just an alternative to the other common methods like gym leader runs or pickup/payday farming.

Also if you raise the passive money just because breeding seems to expensive you could just remove the prices for the iv items and the genders and the market will be flooded by comps even more than now.

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1 hour ago, ShinyMrT said:

non OT or OT*

this is something, that from a competitive stand point of view, does not hold any value, so yeah there's that, and even then, you can just catch the pokemon you're breeding as female, and this won't happen.

 

 

1 hour ago, ShinyMrT said:

Also if i buy everything of the GTL i spend around 200k for the breeders alone + the cost for the gender and the IV keep items. 

The point is you make money and get the breeders you need. The 200k you safe by getting the breeders instead of buying comes on top of the money you make in safari with the items that drop.

In that same time, you can make more by doing another ingame activities, that will not only provide you enough cash for a couple comps, but also leftover cash for you to keep.

 

1 hour ago, ShinyMrT said:

Sure it highly depense on luck if you get a lucky egg. But this is just an alternative to the other common methods like gym leader runs or pickup/payday farming.

It's not. For it to be a valid method, it would have to be reliable, and it isn't at all, gym leader is reliable, because it always provides the same reward for the time wasted.

 

 

1 hour ago, ShinyMrT said:

Also if you raise the passive money just because breeding seems to expensive

Imo, the main idea here, isn't that breeding is a problem or anything( But lets face the facts, it kinda is, considering the little 'money making' methods we have, and how boring they are/Low rewarding), but the idea of providing a better incentive for people to go murder pokemons in the wild.

 

This game strives due to comp, end game wise, so either way, a market flooded by comps would be a win win situation. They could even be worthless for all I care, but then again, not the point of this thread.

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