Diimiitrii Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 So why is Smokeball one time use then, when there are Pokedolls that can be bought and held in your inventory to escape a battle with even less effort thatn a smokeball? Your argumentation is beyond stupid and I am less and less surprised how poops like Trump are starting to rule the world. Link to comment
razimove Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 hour ago, Diimiitrii said: So why is Smokeball one time use then, when there are Pokedolls that can be bought and held in your inventory to escape a battle with even less effort thatn a smokeball? Your argumentation is beyond stupid and I am less and less surprised how poops like Trump are starting to rule the world. No you're just dumb enough that you do not understand simple logic, and we are indeed stupid for even trying to make you understand. Pokedolls is a consumable aswell, being held or not doens't matter. You wnat to flee, not to stay and battle, so the held item does not matter. Either way I'm out, this is literally beating a dead horse. gbwead 1 Link to comment
ThePrettyPetard Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Welp why not try to summon @Kyu to see if this isn't another forgotten thing like the cleased tag quick recap for kyu if he do appear: why was smoke ball turned into a useless object in pokemmo when no one will use it that way and even if it worked like in the handheld there is no real exploit that could be done Link to comment
Kyu Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 38 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said: Welp why not try to summon @Kyu to see if this isn't another forgotten thing like the cleased tag quick recap for kyu if he do appear: why was smoke ball turned into a useless object in pokemmo when no one will use it that way and even if it worked like in the handheld there is no real exploit that could be done At the time, it was presenting a balancing issue because 100% guaranteed flee mechanics force you to put difficulty into scripted encounters instead of wild encounters. But apparently I forgot that Run Away exists when doing it, and I ended up deciding that an RNG-heavy flee chance for dungeon hordes was a better way to handle the problem anyway. It also invalidates a class of consumables, being Poke Dolls / Fluffy Tail / Poke Toys. If I had to revisit it now, I'd probably just give it a 25%~50% chance to guarantee flee instead of 100% so the ability / consumables are better. Whether a held item slot is more important than an ability slot in PvE contexts seems a topic for debate though. Link to comment
Diimiitrii Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 I am not sure what you mean by "rng-heavy flee chance for dungeon hordes", because I have not a clue what a dungeon is in Pokemon. But if you are using this for normal encounters: A is the unmodified Speed of the player's active Pokémon, B is the opposing Pokémon's unmodified Speed C is the number of times the player has tried to escape during the battle (counting the current attempt). The result is mod 256. Then Smokeball is almost entirely useless in late game, since you are nearly guaranteed to flee with a lvl 100 persian/rapidash/smeargle (whatever people use for pve) against every wild encounter there is. The only time Smokeball does something is: 1. During the story if you are using a slow pokemon 2. To escape from trappers So if I were to balance it, I would: 1. make it not consumable. 2. make it not work for trappers/hordes, so Pokedolls etc still have an advantage over Smokeball 3. give it a lvl restriction like you did with Thief. So a lvl 1 Pokemon cannot escape from a lvl 40 one. Maybe maximum 5 lvl below the wild encounter. This would imo give the Smokeball value again, but it would not interfere with the things you mentioned, being Hordes and trappers. Furthermore, Imo there has never been a difficulty in wild encounters, since usually people are using starters or other fast pokemon for the story, who are usually way overleveled and thus escape easily or oneshot the wild mon, because faster. The only time wild encounters become an "issue" or rather annoyance, is when you are using a slow Pokemon, who cannot escape and has to take a hit, if he wants to oneshot the wild encounter. Thank you for the response, that was way more satisfying than anything on the last few pages. Link to comment
ThePrettyPetard Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 27 minutes ago, Kyu said: At the time, it was presenting a balancing issue because 100% guaranteed flee mechanics force you to put difficulty into scripted encounters instead of wild encounters. But apparently I forgot that Run Away exists when doing it, and I ended up deciding that an RNG-heavy flee chance for dungeon hordes was a better way to handle the problem anyway. It also invalidates a class of consumables, being Poke Dolls / Fluffy Tail / Poke Toys. If I had to revisit it now, I'd probably just give it a 25%~50% chance to guarantee flee instead of 100% so the ability / consumables are better. Whether a held item slot is more important than an ability slot in PvE contexts seems a topic for debate though. it would be a nice touch for to change this item for the newer player but i think 75% chance would be more appropriate tho becaus 25%~50% has a pretty high risk of faillure unless you meant it would raise the chance of succesfully fleing by 25%~50%. i don't know if it's something that hard to change but it's little thing that can change a good game into a perfect one. Link to comment
ReekRend Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 Did this ever go anywhere? I feel very sorry for OP who was totally correct, but the total nonsense by the opposition did become amusing (absurd arguments). Kyu's response is decent, but I'm sure some would be curious about the future of smoke ball. I think encounter-affecting mechanics are mostly unused because they are overlooked too much. 100% flee with Smoke Ball doesn't seem at all unbalancing since it's only useful for slow early Pokemon, as OP said. And you can achieve the same thing by putting a fast/higher Pokemon first any time, so all it does it allow more variety in play style. Honestly, OP's logic in this thread is flawless and would contribute to the depth of the game. There are way too many essentially useless items anyway, it's tidy and pleasant to fix these for game world. Poufilou 1 Link to comment
Poufilou Posted June 23, 2022 Share Posted June 23, 2022 22 minutes ago, ReekRend said: Did this ever go anywhere? Smoke ball is no longer consumable, and it probably was fixed for a non-100% chance as Kyu said, although when I used it, it always worked, so idk for sure, there should be the specific of change in one of the changelogs. And yes, this topic was a pain to read lmao poor guy. #JusticeForOP Link to comment
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