Diimiitrii Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) Hi, I was wondering why you made Smokeball a consumable item in the MMO? It does nothing for PVP purposes, it is a currency to learn Explosion and it is a very nieche PvE item. I understand most of the decisions and see a reason behind it, but for smokeball I genuinely do not. The annoying/time consuming part about wild encounters is them happening, that's what you can avoid with repel. I do not see why it would be an unfair advantage to not consume Smokeball when you run away. Also Pokedolls exist and are purchaseable and consumable. Smokeball is a held item that uses a slot on one of your pokemon and it is not easily obtainable. Thanks for explaining. Edited June 19, 2018 by Diimiitrii Link to comment
Bearminator Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 It's because of balance. If you could just buy/get smokeball and it would repel all pokemon, you would have no reason to ever buy repels. Link to comment
Diimiitrii Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 Smokeball does NOT repell Pokemon. It only allows you to flee from a battle. You buy Repells to not encounter Pokemon and save time. Smokeball does NOT do that, it only guarantees escaping. Link to comment
razimove Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Just now, Diimiitrii said: Smokeball does NOT repell Pokemon. It only allows you to flee from a battle. Although you're right, mmos need money dumps, and this is one more of those. Either way, you could use a pokemon with run away ability in front of the party. Link to comment
Diimiitrii Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) You can dump your money in Pokedolls also, they are buyable in a shop. And this way none of your Pokemon has to carry a "useless" Item. True You could use a runaway as a lead Pokemon, or you could just lead with a fast Pokemon. It is just very discouraging to play with slow Pokes like Coffing or Slowpoke, when you cannot give them a Smokeball to escape. You always have to fight and are guaranteed to take damage, because they are slow as fuck. Is it a money dump tho? Does anyone buy smokeballs for the purpose of fleeing from a battle and equips a new one after every encounter? I highly doubt that. Pokedolls are cheaper and your Pokemon doesn't have to hold them and you do not have to reequip them between battles. Edited June 19, 2018 by Diimiitrii Link to comment
razimove Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 1 minute ago, Diimiitrii said: It is just very discouraging to play with slow Pokes like Coffing or Slowpoke, mhh just dont use them as lead in the party? Don't think smoke balls are exactly the most used item, or even a used item tbh, it's dead content imo, but it's one more money dump, little by little helps controlling inflaction. Link to comment
Bearminator Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 My bad actually, confused it with cleanse tag. In that case, Redspawn is right here- pretty sure it was added as another money sink. Link to comment
ThePrettyPetard Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, Bearminator said: My bad actually, confused it with cleanse tag. In that case, Redspawn is right here- pretty sure it was added as another money sink. Just saying, i am pretty sure kyu said the cleanse tag isn't working becaus it's something he/they forgot for a pretty damn long time Link to comment
Diimiitrii Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) That's what I don't understand. Nobody dumps money into Smokeballs for the purpose of using them to escape, since they are ~ 8k on GTL. They get bought to be consumed learning Explosion. If you want to escape from a battle you will buy Pokedolls from a market, for like 10% of the price you pay on GTL for a smokeball and it costs FAR less effort to use dolls and you are more flexibel with dolls. But doesn't matter too much. It is a niche item and I don't really need it. It was just annoying to see my smokeball disappear, while training my koffing. I was just suggesting to maybe rethink that decision, because it does not make sense on any level imo. Pokedolls have a better effect and are cheaper and not limited to catching/stealing from koffings. Edited June 19, 2018 by Diimiitrii Link to comment
Tyrone Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 So you want to remove the consumable effect of smokeball? Option A: Make it non-consumable Option B: Remove the effect Both options have clear problems design wise. If you go for option A: You've just created a stronger version of the pokedoll, which reduces money sink. Option B: Removing effects of properly working items serve no purpose. Instead of being salty about an intended game mechanic, which caused an unfortunate loss of wealth due to a small player-mistake, I believe it would be wise to learn from it and avoid it from happening again. Link to comment
Diimiitrii Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) It is not a intended game mechanic. Smokeball is NOT a consumable in the original games. That is a PokeMMO only thing. Smokeball is non consumable, as well as Leftovers are non consumable. With option A it is NOT a stronger version of Pokedoll. You have to hold smokeball with a pokemon, which does not allow you to hold amulett coin or xpshare or choice stuff or Leftovers etc. Pokedoll is in your inventory and you use it from there. Your Pokemon can still hold items. Pokedoll is not limited to one Pokemon only, you can switch, have pokemon die or do anything and you can just use it any time. With smokeball it only takes effect for the one Pokemon holding the item. - Nobody uses Pokedolls. They exist, but no one actually buys them for the purpose of using them. - The only people that could make use of Smokeball are people in their first playthrough. - When you are done with the story your Pokemon don't need a Smokeball or Pokedoll to escape, because your Pokemon outlvl every wild Pokemon by a long shot. The only effect a Smokeball has is, that you can use slow Pokemon in your playthrough. Fast Pokemon can escape by themselves and when you are done with the Story your Pokemon don't need help escaping. Edited June 19, 2018 by Diimiitrii Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 That makes it intended for PokeMMO then. Link to comment
Bearminator Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 Smokeball letting you to run away from pokemon would change usage of pokedolls tho. Right now, if you want to quit battle for sure, you would have to buy pokedoll cause as you noticed, they're cheaper. If smokeball wouldnt be consumable, you would have literally 0 reasons to buy any poke dolls. Link to comment
Diimiitrii Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 Yeah. Whatever. Pokedoll is very different from Smokeball. If you use Smokeball, You cannot hold for example leftovers. If you use a Pokedoll, you still can. Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Diimiitrii said: If you use a Pokedoll, you still can. What's the purpose of an held item in a battle you fled? Edited June 19, 2018 by gbwead razimove 1 Link to comment
Diimiitrii Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) The purpose of a held item is to give you an advantage in trainer battles. If you use smokeball you trade in convenience for effectivity. And to reduce the amount of time spent on inventory management, or using items. Or you change before every battle, but then you might aswell just use repells. Edited June 19, 2018 by Diimiitrii Link to comment
Diimiitrii Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) I just don't understand the harm done. There is maybe a handfull people who actually use a slow pokemon as a lead pokemon. Everyone else does not care about smokeball or pokedoll. And even the ones who use slow pokemon are not bothering buying either Pokedoll or Smokeball. It is not a money sink it is just a nieche PvE convenienve item removed from the game. I don't understand, why on the one hand things like occarinas get created to make the game more convenient for players and on the other hand nieche items that hardly anyone uses get basically removed from the game, by making it a consumable. The money sinks lie in breeding and style items, not in vanilla items that make the story more convenient. It does not harm the people who have millions, it only harms fresh players to nerf smokeball like that. Edited June 19, 2018 by Diimiitrii Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) The only item you need in trainer battles is an amulet coin anyways. I'm not sure being able to run around with a lvl1 lead escaping every battle cost free is a good thing for pve. Catching events and storyline parts in areas with wild trappers mons would also be affected by such a change. Edited June 19, 2018 by gbwead Link to comment
Risadex Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) Smokeball is consumable, and the difference over pokedolll is than it is used to teach Explosion via tutor. Edited June 19, 2018 by Risadex ik uk Link to comment
Diimiitrii Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) how would it help to run around with a lvl 1 mon? Wild encounters are not the ones restricting your movement. It is the story and the trainer/gym battles that limit your progress, not the wild encounters. (you cannot even buy one since you need 4 badges and wild koffings are later than that) You don't have access to a smokeball in diglet cave and you don't have access to a smokeball in the desert. So trapping events are not affected. Not sure how catching events would be affected? You usually use your lvl 100 catcher anyway for those and he does not need a smokeball. Edited June 19, 2018 by Diimiitrii Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Diimiitrii said: Wild encounters are not the ones restricting your movement. It is the story and the trainer/gym battles that limit your progress, not the wild encounters. What's the purpose of the smokeball then? Catching events in the desert or the wobbuffet area would be affected even if your smeargle is lvl 100, no? Edit: Does smokeball work against Snorlax, Electrode or Fungus encounters? Edited June 19, 2018 by gbwead Link to comment
Diimiitrii Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) The purpose of Smokeball is convenience, nothing else. So you can lead with the pokemon you want to lead without having to rearange your team, or using items etc every time you walk through grass/water. It would affect them in so far, that anyone could use them. And they are still not really affected since your lvl 100smeargle can still oneshot any wild mon f you give him anything but falseswipe. Wild encounters are just an annoying time killer during the story. They don't provide relevant xp and they don't do real damage. they only cost time. And that is the only thing a smokeball would save, if you were able to use it after you found it in the respective region or your koffing came with one. Edited June 19, 2018 by Diimiitrii Link to comment
XelaKebert Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 35 minutes ago, Diimiitrii said: The purpose of Smokeball is convenience, nothing else. So you can lead with the pokemon you want to lead without having to rearange your team, or using items etc every time you walk through grass/water. It would affect them in so far, that anyone could use them. And they are still not really affected since your lvl 100smeargle can still oneshot any wild mon f you give him anything but falseswipe. Wild encounters are just an annoying time killer during the story. They don't provide relevant xp and they don't do real damage. they only cost time. And that is the only thing a smokeball would save, if you were able to use it after you found it in the respective region or your koffing came with one. Ok, but something to keep in mind. You don't get money from PayDay unless you faint the target and PayDay is also not affected by Amulet Coin. Smokeball being consumed on fleeing makes logical sense in an MMO. As for it not being consumed in handhelds, that is because they were designed for single player. PokeMMO is not designed that way so some mechanics are changed to reflect that. The handhelds have no economy to balance so nothing is lost by giving the player everything. Link to comment
Diimiitrii Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 not sure what amulett coin or payday have to do with anything. I just don't see the harm in having smokeball work as intended. It is super nieche, I doubt a lot of people ever have trouble escaping a battle, or even think about having to escape. It is the first time I use slow pokemons during my playthrough and it is the first time I rather escape than just oneshot the wild pokemon. Smokeball would provide that. I don't see any mechanic that could be abused, if you had a smokeball. It just changes nothing for high lvl gameplay. Link to comment
ThePrettyPetard Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 6 hours ago, XelaKebert said: Ok, but something to keep in mind. You don't get money from PayDay unless you faint the target and PayDay is also not affected by Amulet Coin. Smokeball being consumed on fleeing makes logical sense in an MMO. As for it not being consumed in handhelds, that is because they were designed for single player. PokeMMO is not designed that way so some mechanics are changed to reflect that. The handhelds have no economy to balance so nothing is lost by giving the player everything. i guess you mean pokemmo is different from handheld with that amulet coin example... honestly you could have just said "fuck you pokemmo is different" and that would have done pretty much the same. there is no real exploit no real real balance thing the money sink for pokedoll is honestly just bullshit your throwing out there becaus who even bother or has the money to waste to buy a stack of those item and waste the time to use them in every damn fight. repel do a way better job for potentially cheaper than the pokedoll would so why bother? on the ohter hand a held item that can allow to flee from fight is a pretty good item for any newbie wanting to use slow pokemon if they don't have to keep wasting all their money on it over and over. now i'll just get ahead of a potential argument about item sink (basically getting rid of those item so we don't have a massive load that never go and "kills the economy". if those item are used for move tutor then we allready get rid of a part of them (i did not check if it's true or not right now) the other part could be taken by those passing player that come and go wich would probably be close to the number of player that buy them and realise they loose them on the first pokemon and then never buy them again. to make it short it wouldn't change anything to the game beside making some player more happy or maybe less mad depending on how you see it. why not do it? Link to comment
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