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Upcoming Update and Dungeons


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2 hours ago, Dazuzi said:

The date when you create a forum account =/= the date when you start playing the game. I was lurking for a while, just never bothered to register.

 

Anyway, I am not here to disagree with you on the development process of dungeons being slow or that you don't have the right to be frustrated about it, but it was recently explained why and I personally understand the reasoning behind it.

 

I only pointed out that the proposed conspiracy theory is simply insane - slow development process doesn't mean that the development itself is a lie.

of course it was just a joke, however it is getting frustrating. IIRC dungeons were first mentioned when that staff (who was it again?) leaked informations about shiny rates, how they discover hacks AND dungeons which followed in a permaban, which was like 2014? the core gameplay wasnt touched for years and if they wouldnt have discovered a new market with the chinese players im sure the game would probably pretty dead right now

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6 hours ago, Dazuzi said:

Since you either didn't read what I said, or didn't get it and just repeated the same thing you said earlier, I will do the same.

 

You are free to be extremely pessimistic, even to the point where you believe that they made the whole dungeon thing up, but it's not their or anyone's job to convince you or make it seem more believable to you.

Me, pessimistic? About a feature they've been hinting at for over 6 years and have made no effort to at least give us a SIGN that it's being worked on and isn't being backseated? I'm not being pessimistic, I'm being normal. Just like about everyone else who has played as long as I have. Without actual evidence that they've been working on it, there's no reason to believe it is.

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14 hours ago, Quakkz said:

and if they wouldnt have discovered a new market with the chinese players im sure the game would probably pretty dead right now

This is also one of the main reasons dungeons were delayed tho. While I do agree that the new chinese market helped the game a ton - especially from a financial standpoint, it also brought a lot of it's own issues with it, that ultimately had to be dealt with and were given a priority.

 

10 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Me, pessimistic?

Yes, you, pessimistic.

 

10 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

About a feature they've been hinting at for over 6 years and have made no effort to at least give us a SIGN that it's being worked on and isn't being backseated?

They did make an effort, we have gotten multiple updates from Kyu and Darkshade regarding the development of dungeons and it was also mentioned that they were indeed put in the backseat, along with an explanation as to why they were delayed, you clearly need to start reading more.

 

I am not sure why you feel that you're entitled to be given a proof, but the reality is, you're not.

 

10 hours ago, BoltBlades12 said:

Without actual evidence that they've been working on it, there's no reason to believe it is.

Yes there is, it's called professional integrity. Also, everyone is innocent unless proven guilty.

Edited by Dazuzi
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4 minutes ago, Dazuzi said:

They did make an effort, we have gotten multiple updates from Kyu and Darkshade regarding the development of dungeons and that they were indeed put in the backseat, along with an explanation as to why they were delayed, you clearly need to start reading more.

It's just hard to believe for some people that after many years this feature that was promised is no where to be seen, Some people have been waiting too long for end game content now and the lack of presence from the actual devs themselves only adds fuel to the fire. (Right  now the forums is more exciting than the game itself lol) 

Credibility is another issue too for many people, theirs been a few instances where dev's have said something that's turned out not to be correct or have not really given answers to. 

 

I personally don't believe it wold take this long to develop something like dungeons since 2014. However i can also believe that they just rarely get around to working on it because of other issues like they have explained before.

 

You are correct in repeating what the devs have already said in previous threads countering these complaints but i think one of the issues is that these explanations are just scattered around random threads by different devs when lots of people complain, people this see and that's why theirs a lot more talk about it. Some people suggested dev blogs or something? That would avoid all of this crap, Just something to tell the community what the devs priorities are for the next update, Not exactly a promise of a certain feature but what they are actually aiming for & currently working on for the next scheduled update/future ones.

 

I'm not so excited for Dungeons nor do i know the past discussions about this as much as some people but i can see both sides of the discussion, The thing is i'm swinging to one side more as i know more about the community side of this rather than the dev side of things because theirs very little that is/has been said to us by them. Maybe Mayor @Bestfriends can pool all of these responses from different devs together in a mega thread if in the end they cant be assed to do something about it themselves. I know they don't HAVE to do anything for us, but damn it wouldn't take much effort.

 

I think many people would prefer just an update in the "Announcements" Sub from Kyu a little more often about how things have been going.

was the last thing in there from September 2018 explaining what you are saying now not mentioning dungeons but development in general, Darkshade repeated this, i myself am unsure if that's a confirmation of Dungeons is still being worked on currently or darkshade was just repeating what he saw Kyu post in this thread about development in general.

 

It seems like they sorted a lot of the RMT, Botters out fairly quickly at the time, Nice work :)

 

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39 minutes ago, Flareonn said:

It's just hard to believe for some people that after many years this feature that was promised is no where to be seen

From what I remember darkshade only started mapping the actual dungeon during summer 2018, so while they might have been debating the idea for a while, I doubt they have been actually working on it for years.

 

39 minutes ago, Flareonn said:

i think one of the issues is that these explanations are just scattered around random threads by different devs when lots of people complain, people this see and that's why theirs a lot more talk about it. Some people suggested dev blogs or something? That would avoid all of this crap, Just something to tell the community what the devs priorities are for the next update, Not exactly a promise of a certain feature but what they are actually aiming for & currently working on for the next scheduled update/future ones.

I fully agree, the information we have is quite scattered, which is why some people assume there is no communication at all or lack certain information. A pinned thread with a collection of all the information given by the staff would be very useful, or making a regular developer blog again as you and some others suggested - but if that won't happen, simply doing a single collection of all the info given by the developers in one megathread will do the job. (Sounds like a mayoral duty indeed@Bestfriends)

 

Don't get me wrong, more transparency would be great, but demanding a proof and then calling the staff liars because they didn't provide it is just silly.

Edited by Dazuzi
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2 hours ago, Dazuzi said:

actual dungeon during summer 2018,

If I'm not wrong their first ETA, was 4 months after Unova being released, but considering it took them 9 months to fix moves and abilities, and even then there's some interactions that aren't fully working, I really doubt we will be getting them for a while. Everyone gets pessimistic, when there's little reasons to be optimistic considering their dev team. I like your approach to the situation, it's somewhat professional, but the community will just starting ranting over and over.

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47 minutes ago, razimove said:

If I'm not wrong their first ETA, was 4 months after Unova being released, but considering it took them 9 months to fix moves and abilities, and even then there's some interactions that aren't fully working

And this is precisely why they stopped giving ETAs, you simply can't predict all the bugs that might pop out or other unexpected issues - they are extremely tentative and people tend to fixate on them more than they should.

 

48 minutes ago, razimove said:

I like your approach to the situation, it's somewhat professional, but the community will just starting ranting over and over.

It always will, human nature. Believe me if I could complain dungeons into existence I would.

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Alright, this is getting a little ridiculous, so let me just set a few things straight.

 

I'm going to do a mass-response and hopefully it should encompass the answers to most of your questions.

We first mentioned our intention to create dungeons a long time ago.

 

Why?

 

Because legendaries are a very hot topic, and we received many questions about why they were not introduced.

We knew that we did not want to make them available in the traditional sense, and instead make them a little more prestigious - so after a talk among the development team, we decided that dungeons was the best way to handle them.

 

So the question comes up; "Why can't I capture a legendary?" and the answer becomes "Because we're saving them for dungeons".

That's a lot more satisfying answer, because it shows our intent to make the game more interesting instead of just withholding legendaries for no reason.

 

So, naturally over time the next question becomes "When are you releasing dungeons"

 

And we didn't know, I think the first time we mentioned them publicly we hadn't even reached Hoenn - there was a lot to think about.

 

"Eventually" became a round-a-bout answer.

 

Cue summer 2018, we decide now is a good time to perhaps make a start on fulfilling that dungeon promise, We've just released Gen V, and that should be a decent amount of content to keep players happy for some time.

We discuss concepts, design maps, sprite tiles, draw maps, make a decent start.

But let me tell you - this is no easy feat, we want these dungeons to last.
We want to bring you content that is probably (at least in the planning stages) going to take at least an hour of your time to complete, built entirely from the ground up.

We're talking fully custom large-scale maps with brand new overworld aesthetics, proper boss fights, interesting puzzles, 'the whole shebang'.
It's quite the task, but we think we're capable of it.

 

We announced that we started work on the first dungeon a little after this time, and that the first one would be tied to the Kanto.

However, some things came up - RMT issues, other features, holiday events.

 

We had to put our work on dungeons aside for a little while, because we wanted to give them the attention they required, and not rush them.

This is nobodies fault, but I think a lot of our players would have been unhappy if these things were not dealt with.

 

So there seems to be a few common questions here:

  • Why not give us an ETA?

Because we don't have one at this time, I'm not sure if we've ever actually given one - and if we did,  at this stage it's incorrect.

  • Why don't you show us what you've got so far?

We want it to be a surprise, showing you what we have would make it less exciting on release and also give away which legendary we have decided to build a dungeon around, which (at least at this stage) is not something we want to do.

  • Are you making this all up?

No.
We're not crazy enough to tell our players that we started working on something just to keep them on the hook.
We don't stand to gain anything in that scenario except distrust in the long-term.

 

Look, we're just as excited about dungeons as you are.
We've had a lot of fun discussing the concepts and building something fresh.
It's the first time we've really been able to put our collective skill-set to the test in an attempt to create something new.

 

As for when this first dungeon will its eventual release, we don't have a satisfying answer for you yet unfortunately, but I'm fairly certain we're all pretty eager to want to begin building it again.

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27 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

Alright, this is getting a little ridiculous, so let me just set a few things straight.

 

I'm going to do a mass-response and hopefully it should encompass the answers to most of your questions.

We first mentioned our intention to create dungeons a long time ago.

 

Why?

 

Because legendaries are a very hot topic, and we received many questions about why they were not introduced.

We knew that we did not want to make them available in the traditional sense, and instead make them a little more prestigious - so after a talk among the development team, we decided that dungeons was the best way to handle them.

 

So the question comes up; "Why can't I capture a legendary?" and the answer becomes "Because we're saving them for dungeons".

That's a lot more satisfying answer, because it shows our intent to make the game more interesting instead of just withholding legendaries for no reason.

 

So, naturally over time the next question becomes "When are you releasing dungeons"

 

And we didn't know, I think the first time we mentioned them publicly we hadn't even reached Hoenn - there was a lot to think about.

 

"Eventually" became a round-a-bout answer.

 

Cue summer 2018, we decide now is a good time to perhaps make a start on fulfilling that dungeon promise, We've just released Gen V, and that should be a decent amount of content to keep players happy for some time.

We discuss concepts, design maps, sprite tiles, draw maps, make a decent start.

But let me tell you - this is no easy feat, we want these dungeons to last.
We want to bring you content that is probably (at least in the planning stages) going to take at least an hour of your time to complete, built entirely from the ground up.

We're talking fully custom large-scale maps with brand new overworld aesthetics, proper boss fights, interesting puzzles, 'the whole shebang'.
It's quite the task, but we think we're capable of it.

 

We announced that we started work on the first dungeon a little after this time, and that the first one would be tied to the Kanto.

However, some things came up - RMT issues, other features, holiday events.

 

We had to put our work on dungeons aside for a little while, because we wanted to give them the attention they required, and not rush them.

This is nobodies fault, but I think a lot of our players would have been unhappy if these things were not dealt with.

 

So there seems to be a few common questions here:

  • Why not give us an ETA?

Because we don't have one at this time, I'm not sure if we've ever actually given one - and if we did,  at this stage it's incorrect.

  • Why don't you show us what you've got so far?

We want it to be a surprise, showing you what we have would make it less exciting on release and also give away which legendary we have decided to build a dungeon around, which (at least at this stage) is not something we want to do.

  • Are you making this all up?

No.
We're not crazy enough to tell our players that we started working on something just to keep them on the hook.
We don't stand to gain anything in that scenario except distrust in the long-term.

 

Look, we're just as excited about dungeons as you are.
We've had a lot of fun discussing the concepts and building something fresh.
It's the first time we've really been able to put our collective skill-set to the test in an attempt to create something new.

 

As for when this first dungeon will its eventual release, we don't have a satisfying answer for you yet unfortunately, but I'm fairly certain we're all pretty eager to want to begin building it again.

Will we have immediate access to Hidden Abilities in the first dungeon or will they be introduced at a specific point thereafter? 

Edited by Zymogen
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1 minute ago, Zymogen said:

Will we have immediate access to Hidden Abilities in the first dungeon or will they be introduced at a specific point thereafter? 

It depends on how you're asking that question.

If you're asking how far into the first dungeon Hidden Abilities will be made available - then that's not something that has been fully decided yet.

 

If you're asking whether they'll be made available at the same time as the dungeon itself is, then yes - that's the intention.

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9 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

It depends on how you're asking that question.

If you're asking how far into the first dungeon Hidden Abilities will be made available - then that's not something that has been fully decided yet.

 

If you're asking whether they'll be made available at the same time as the dungeon itself is, then yes - that's the intention.

I meant the latter. Thanks

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30 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

If you're asking how far into the first dungeon Hidden Abilities will be made available - then that's not something that has been fully decided yet.

Did you guys take a final stance on how to obtain hidden ability? Will it be through the said ''capture HA monster, rebreed your comp'' or will it be through another mechanic, like HA Pill or something as discussed previously?

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2 minutes ago, razimove said:

Did you guys take a final stance on how to obtain hidden ability? Will it be through the said ''capture HA monster, rebreed your comp'' or will it be through another mechanic, like HA Pill or something as discussed previously?

If they wanted to take the easy way and use the HA pill, they would have done it already.

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4 minutes ago, Dazuzi said:

If they wanted to take the easy way and use the HA pill, they would have done it already.

Nah, you can just introduce it as a non 100% drop in the dungeon, and make a fee to enter the dungeon, making it somewhat difficult to obtain, while helping the economy to remain stable, and allowing us, competitive players, to not have to sell a kidney in order to fix our comps.

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3 minutes ago, razimove said:

Nah, you can just introduce it as a non 100% drop in the dungeon, and make a fee to enter the dungeon, making it somewhat difficult to obtain, while helping the economy to remain stable, and allowing us, competitive players, to not have to sell a kidney in order to fix our comps.

Ah I see, sorry, I thought you were referring to just putting an HA pill to daycares for a fixed price and be done with it.

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4 hours ago, Darkshade said:

Alright, this is getting a little ridiculous, so let me just set a few things straight.

...

Ok, thank you very much. Just one more, simple question:

 

Are you guys currently and actively working on the project or is it still on the side?

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Just now, FNTCZ said:

Ok, thank you very much. Just one more, simple question:

 

Are you guys currently and actively working on the project or is it still on the side?

 

4 hours ago, Darkshade said:

but I'm fairly certain we're all pretty eager to want to begin building it again.

 

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3 minutes ago, porcmare said:

ok so at the time of finishing the first dungeon, will you release it right away, make it into a PTS or just working on enough dungeons so you can release all the legendaries/the legendaries for a region?

We're only working on 1 dungeon at the moment, I don't know whether we'll have a PTS for it.

 

17 minutes ago, FNTCZ said:

Ok, thank you very much. Just one more, simple question:

 

Are you guys currently and actively working on the project or is it still on the side?

As pointed out, unfortunately it's still on the side.

 

3 hours ago, razimove said:

Did you guys take a final stance on how to obtain hidden ability? Will it be through the said ''capture HA monster, rebreed your comp'' or will it be through another mechanic, like HA Pill or something as discussed previously?

Nothing is entirely set it in stone yet.

 

Unpopular opinion, but speaking as an individual on the subject, I personally think it'd be a waste of potential (both economically and in terms of content) to go with the pill option.

 

 

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30 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

Unpopular opinion, but speaking as an individual on the subject, I personally think it'd be a waste of potential (both economically and in terms of content) to go with the pill option.

 

 

I agree. It would render dungeons practically less desireable since from the beginning like stated their purpose would to be obtain the HA's. Dungeons are the economical booster we're waiting for and need right now. So adding the HA's via ability pill would be senseless.

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30 minutes ago, Goku said:

I agree. It would render dungeons practically less desireable since from the beginning like stated their purpose would to be obtain the HA's. Dungeons are the economical booster we're waiting for and need right now. So adding the HA's via ability pill would be senseless.

lol yeah it's true that making Gift Shiny comps or expensive bred Shinies totally useless because of the lack of the needed Hidden Ability is truely a economical booster.

 

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34 minutes ago, Aerun said:

lol yeah it's true that making Gift Shiny comps or expensive bred Shinies totally useless because of the lack of the needed Hidden Ability is truely a economical booster.

I'm not saying your complaints are invalid, but you're using 2 extremes that aren't relevant to both a majority of players or the majority of 'mons bred and obtained within the game.

 

And yes, unironically even in your example it would be a boost to the economy due to more shinies sunk.

(I'm neither saying it's 'good', but your passive-aggressiveness is actually correct).

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13 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

I'm not saying your complaints are invalid, but you're using 2 extremes that aren't relevant to both a majority of players or the majority of 'mons bred and obtained within the game.

 

And yes, unironically even in your example it would be a boost to the economy due to more shinies sunk.

(I'm neither saying it's good or bad, but your passive-aggressiveness is actually correct).

So you're saying that people who spent all their money just to breed their desired Shiny or people who worked hard to win a tournament with a Shiny which is not usable anymore because of the lack of HA doesn't mean anything to you guys?

There are also people who could be too lazy to rebreed their comps to use them again, which I understand when you've been playing this game for years, but this argument isn't as meaningful as the shiny's one honestly. I still would consider it though.

 

Imo, there should be a way to get a HA pill at a specific point in those dungeons, maybe with a very rare rate to get them.

Cons: ??

Pros: -Economy booster: the ability pills would be very rare and hard to get so people would sell them expensively.

           -People would still have to go through the dungeon to hunt them.

            -Would add a new money sink, people could hunt them and just make money out of it.

           -People who got expensive bred Shinies and Gift Shinies could still use them.

 

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