Jump to content

The State of the Economy


Recommended Posts

16 hours ago, Kyu said:

This is more of a criticism of the entire series rather than PokeMMO's implementation, but the base game does a very poor job at explaining the mechanical complexities which go into a typical PvP battle and preparing you for them. Hidden mechanics, obfuscated stats, and inconsistent rulesets for classes of skills are the worst offenders to me, but the short campaign which focuses on little more than finding the right typing in the grass outside is a major problem.

 

Coupled with vague documentation in-game which forces you to read a fansite to understand how the game works, it becomes very hard to play the game on an advanced level if you're not willing (or able) to sit down and read the manual.

 

What NPCs do you think need attention?

Sorry Kyu, but I can't agree with you. Speaking from a competitive player perspective right here- it took me very short time to start playing comp back in 2013. Of course I was a nab and I was making hundreds of mistakes but competitive community isn't a secret tight group that does not share it's secrets. Learning the mechanics, understanding the metagame and so on is part of the game and that's totally fine. If someone would like to go into playing competitively on an advanced level, then it's not the rules, mechanics and calcs that are making the problem. It's the amount of time and pokeyen that needs to be invested. And this is exclusively to MMO. To play on highest level, you need to maximize your chances of winning by getting your stats as high as possible.

 

I am breeding a Togekiss right now. 21k pokeyen per egg!!!! That's 2 gym rematches just to pick a gender. And that just has to be done. Braces are still expensive as well.

 

If anything's stopping new players from getting into competitive play, then that's it.

 

E:

 

oops double post, thought I'm posting in a different thread lmao. If a mod can scale those 2 posts I'd be grateful

Edited by RysPicz
I embarris.
Link to comment
1 hour ago, RysPicz said:

Sorry Kyu, but I can't agree with you. Speaking from a competitive player perspective right here- it took me very short time to start playing comp back in 2013. Of course I was a nab and I was making hundreds of mistakes but competitive community isn't a secret tight group that does not share it's secrets. Learning the mechanics, understanding the metagame and so on is part of the game and that's totally fine.

Exactly. Competitive Pokemon is not black and white - there are so many statistical variables, risk assessments and mind games that can only be learnt through diving into the deep end and having a go at it. Being successful at Pokemon comes with experience; it took me well over a month to win my first "competitive" (i.e. spamming in Verm for a battle with a random) battle even with all of the assistance from established players at MDVN. 

Link to comment
  • 3 months later...

I'd hate to do a massive bump to this thread that obviously hasn't been touched in months, but the state of the economy is something I still think about a lot, and I can't help that a lot of people don't back to how much easier it was to get yen back then.

Ever since this post was created, it's evident that yenmaking has suffered (due to there being no considerable patches or changes that effected yenmaking, minus a 10% boost on yen on the Elite 4 reward that only effects the upper echelon of players that can participate in that) due to the unchanged yen nerf on most random NPC's and gym leaders. Yen has been distributed across more trainers due to the addition of Unova in addition with the nerf, but this still only shows that the time it takes to get yen is still nerfed. Not to mention the fact that we also had the weird event where we had a lot of Chinese players entering into our game and creating a whole lot more supply of items which caused items to go down. I have no problem with market adjusting to this either; If for examples, everstones have gone down half in price, and payouts have gone down half in price, you're doing the same amount of work.

What I do have a problem with though, is that many items (on GTL) did not go down in price that was proportional with the yen nerf (Some items like berries literally cannot drop any lower). Many ingame shop prices for generic adventure items like pokeballs, healing items, and especially bands has not been proportionally adjusted to the yen nerf either.

For the common player, this means that it usually takes longer to grind for generic items, including if you're doing another form of farming like using Theif or Pickup that isn't rewarding you with pure yen right away. I just feel like a lot of players have forgotten the fact that your time spent grinding in the game is being rewarded less than it was in the past.

Pretty much all I can suggest to fix this is one of two things: For the devs to look back into the prices of set items like Bands, adventure items, healing items, etc, and determine if they need a price reduction, or boost yen payout again to generic trainers, while adding an even higher timer to re-challenge them if they're concerned about people producing too much yen in a certain amount of time.

I just kind of want my time spent playing this game to be worth more, yo.

Edited by Raichu4u
Link to comment
15 hours ago, Raichu4u said:

I'd hate to do a massive bump to this thread that obviously hasn't been touched in months, but the state of the economy is something I still think about a lot, and I can't help that a lot of people don't back to how much easier it was to get yen back then.

Ever since this post was created, it's evident that yenmaking has suffered (due to there being no considerable patches or changes that effected yenmaking, minus a 10% boost on yen on the Elite 4 reward that only effects the upper echelon of players that can participate in that) due to the unchanged yen nerf on most random NPC's and gym leaders. Yen has been distributed across more trainers due to the addition of Unova in addition with the nerf, but this still only shows that the time it takes to get yen is still nerfed. Not to mention the fact that we also had the weird event where we had a lot of Chinese players entering into our game and creating a whole lot more supply of items which caused items to go down. I have no problem with market adjusting to this either; If for examples, everstones have gone down half in price, and payouts have gone down half in price, you're doing the same amount of work.

What I do have a problem with though, is that many items (on GTL) did not go down in price that was proportional with the yen nerf (Some items like berries literally cannot drop any lower). Many ingame shop prices for generic adventure items like pokeballs, healing items, and especially bands has not been proportionally adjusted to the yen nerf either.

For the common player, this means that it usually takes longer to grind for generic items, including if you're doing another form of farming like using Theif or Pickup that isn't rewarding you with pure yen right away. I just feel like a lot of players have forgotten the fact that your time spent grinding in the game is being rewarded less than it was in the past.

Pretty much all I can suggest to fix this is one of two things: For the devs to look back into the prices of set items like Bands, adventure items, healing items, etc, and determine if they need a price reduction, or boost yen payout again to generic trainers, while adding an even higher timer to re-challenge them if they're concerned about people producing too much yen in a certain amount of time.

I just kind of want my time spent playing this game to be worth more, yo.

You can legit make 300k in 2 hours max from gym runs. And then spend your time playing competitive and farming bp to sell the appropriate items. 

Link to comment
17 hours ago, Raichu4u said:

I'd hate to do a massive bump to this thread that obviously hasn't been touched in months, but the state of the economy is something I still think about a lot, and I can't help that a lot of people don't back to how much easier it was to get yen back then.

Ever since this post was created, it's evident that yenmaking has suffered (due to there being no considerable patches or changes that effected yenmaking, minus a 10% boost on yen on the Elite 4 reward that only effects the upper echelon of players that can participate in that) due to the unchanged yen nerf on most random NPC's and gym leaders. Yen has been distributed across more trainers due to the addition of Unova in addition with the nerf, but this still only shows that the time it takes to get yen is still nerfed. Not to mention the fact that we also had the weird event where we had a lot of Chinese players entering into our game and creating a whole lot more supply of items which caused items to go down. I have no problem with market adjusting to this either; If for examples, everstones have gone down half in price, and payouts have gone down half in price, you're doing the same amount of work.

What I do have a problem with though, is that many items (on GTL) did not go down in price that was proportional with the yen nerf (Some items like berries literally cannot drop any lower). Many ingame shop prices for generic adventure items like pokeballs, healing items, and especially bands has not been proportionally adjusted to the yen nerf either.

For the common player, this means that it usually takes longer to grind for generic items, including if you're doing another form of farming like using Theif or Pickup that isn't rewarding you with pure yen right away. I just feel like a lot of players have forgotten the fact that your time spent grinding in the game is being rewarded less than it was in the past.

Pretty much all I can suggest to fix this is one of two things: For the devs to look back into the prices of set items like Bands, adventure items, healing items, etc, and determine if they need a price reduction, or boost yen payout again to generic trainers, while adding an even higher timer to re-challenge them if they're concerned about people producing too much yen in a certain amount of time.

I just kind of want my time spent playing this game to be worth more, yo.

The methods nerfed, were methods that introduced 'new' cash into the game. To give you a perspective, if a player does gyms for an entire year, he makes around 100m. Now consider that daily, there's more than 360 players doing gyms probably, that's 100m new cash that goes into the game daily, this generates inflaction. Getting basic items like you said, is actually ridiculously easy. The only thing that I find a bit demotivating, is breeding and preparing for competitive scene, that demands a lot of cash, in items, moves, breeders etc.

Link to comment
1 minute ago, razimove said:

The methods nerfed, were methods that introduced 'new' cash into the game. To give you a perspective, if a player does gyms for an entire year, he makes around 100m. Now consider that daily, there's more than 360 players doing gyms probably, that's 100m new cash that goes into the game daily, this generates inflaction. Getting basic items like you said, is actually ridiculously easy. The only thing that I find a bit demotivating, is breeding and preparing for competitive scene, that demands a lot of cash, in items, moves, breeders etc.

And like I said, I'm fine if the rate of yen being acquired is nerfed and experiencing deflation as long as the "Real yen" (comparing it to Real wage) rate doesn't suffer. It's apparent that the "Real yen"  rate has been affected, like you said, due to plenty of those fixed costs of making a comp not being affected or looked into by the devs. The only thing that actually kept up with the real yen nerf was everstones, and that's only because it was market based.

It's entirely arguable as a whole that yen has less purchasing power than it used to.

Link to comment
11 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

eal yen nerf was everstones

a lot of stuff lowered in value, due to the sheer amount of chinese farming them. That has to do with supply and demand pretty much, good examples being everstones, shards, breeders, mushrooms, not directly connected to deflaction.

Only place where you might notice inflaction or deflaction in this game, is on big ticket items, like limited vanities, ultra rare shinies etc. A good example aswell, being eevee that used to be a 230-250m shiny, and now takes time to sell for 100m, or weavile, a previous 100m+ shiny, that now doenst sell for 20 easily, meanwhile you see the opposite on limited items like skulls, who used to be a 6-10m item, now they sell for 20m+ the blues, 30m+ the orange. 

 

Edited by razimove
Link to comment
1 minute ago, razimove said:

a lot of stuff lowered in value, due to the sheer amount of chinese farming them. That has to do with supply and demand pretty much, good examples being everstones, shards, breeders, mushrooms, not directly connected to deflaction.

Only place where you might notice inflaction or deflaction in this game, is on big ticket items, like limited vanities, ultra rare shinies etc. A good example aswell, being eevee that used to be a 230-250m shiny, and now takes time to sell for 100m, or weavile, a previous 100m+ shiny, that now doenst sell for 20 easily. 

 

Everstones were originally around 20K around this post, and yen payout was nerfed to half for the gym battles, everyone's main yen producing method. I would argue that the market adjusted to reduce that down to 10K, and increased supply of higher playerbase reduced that down another 5K to what it is today.

Link to comment
44 minutes ago, razimove said:

a lot of stuff lowered in value, due to the sheer amount of chinese farming them. That has to do with supply and demand pretty much, good examples being everstones, shards, breeders, mushrooms, not directly connected to deflaction.

Only place where you might notice inflaction or deflaction in this game, is on big ticket items, like limited vanities, ultra rare shinies etc. A good example aswell, being eevee that used to be a 230-250m shiny, and now takes time to sell for 100m, or weavile, a previous 100m+ shiny, that now doenst sell for 20 easily, meanwhile you see the opposite on limited items like skulls, who used to be a 6-10m item, now they sell for 20m+ the blues, 30m+ the orange. 

 

The only thing that has increased is limited items and I honestly think it’s based on fear more than anything. The amount of skulls that are out there are insane. As soon as someone posted 3 orange two weekends ago people were begging to sell them for 25 and then they went back to where they are now. But it amazes me at how quickly that market can crash in an instant. And their are a few players that can do it immediately.

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, Impulse5095 said:

The only thing that has increased is limited items and I honestly think it’s based on fear more than anything. The amount of skulls that are out there are insane. As soon as someone posted 3 orange two weekends ago people were begging to sell them for 25 and then they went back to where they are now. But it amazes me at how quickly that market can crash in an instant. And their are a few players that can do it immediately.

its not out of fear. more demand than supply = increase in values. The opposite happened with everstones and the likes, more supply than demand, they dropped in value.

Link to comment

from what i saw there is 2 thing that hold the economy to be better 1 the comp cost being to high and 2 the yen generation being to low.

 

if we go for a solution to fix the first one by reducing the cost for brace to make the comp pokemon more affordable (and potentially some other item). it would have for effect:

1. fucking over everyone who recently spent money on making/buying comp pokemon

   1.1 this would potentially have the side effect of loosing a few player tired of getting fucked by the devs

2. makeing the rich richer has the yen would have now more power

3. ultimately good for the broke/new player

4. having to deal with another deflation crisis.

the only way to fix the number 1 effect would be to refund those player to some extend (in pokeyen) but it would be an hard one to automate and a massive pain in the ass if done by staff

 

 

if we try to fix the second one by raising the yen generation, it would make things more like they used to be before the big nerf. the only thing is that there would be more room for abuse (if we simply raise the npc payout) since there is much more npc now to rematch. one way to fix this before it even become an issue would be to raise massively the cooldown for trainer. for example increasing the payout by 50% but increasing the cooldown time to like 40 hours. the effect this would have would be:

1. an inflation of the price to be closer to what it should be compared to brace

2. the rich becoming "less rich" without actually loosing money

3. the poor would just benefit from that one since making money would be less time consuming

4. people wanting to farm npc a lot would have migrate more insted of allways fighting the same one wich would make the game less repetitive

 

 

if any of you got something to add or correct feel free to say it

Link to comment
16 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

from what i saw there is 2 thing that hold the economy to be better 1 the comp cost being to high and 2 the yen generation being to low.

 

if we go for a solution to fix the first one by reducing the cost for brace to make the comp pokemon more affordable (and potentially some other item). it would have for effect:

1. fucking over everyone who recently spent money on making/buying comp pokemon

   1.1 this would potentially have the side effect of loosing a few player tired of getting fucked by the devs

2. makeing the rich richer has the yen would have now more power

3. ultimately good for the broke/new player

4. having to deal with another deflation crisis.

the only way to fix the number 1 effect would be to refund those player to some extend (in pokeyen) but it would be an hard one to automate and a massive pain in the ass if done by staff

 

Everyone is better off from a brace price nerf matching deflation due to the fact that any comps from that point on forward will be cheaper for everyone.

I'm more of a fan of the devs looking to actively match ingame shop prices like Bands, Pokeballs, healing items, etc that keep up with the pace of inflation or deflation. So far since last year of November, we have only seen increased prices on healing items (alongside with a nerf to how much HP many of them heal), a decrease in NPC payouts like gym leaders, and increased taxes on GTL postings.

I see way too many people saying also that "There's a whole other region with NPC's to grind, just go there", but it completely ignores the fact that yen is just being spread across more NPC's, which nerfs the time to yen ratio for everyone.

Yen objectively has less purchasing power than a year ago. You now have to spend more time to get the same items in the game through the same monotonous grinding. I had no problem with the grind it took to get certain items in September of 2017. It's just a lot harder now.

Edited by Raichu4u
Link to comment
2 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

I'm more of a fan of the devs looking to actively match ingame shop prices like Bands, Pokeballs, healing items, etc that keep up with the pace of inflation or deflation. So far since last year of November, we have only seen increased prices on healing items (alongside with a nerf to how much HP many of them heal), a decrease in NPC payouts like gym leaders, and increased taxes on GTL postings.

don't forget to look at the problem and effect of the solution from every angle before picking something good for you has it could potentially make things much worse for other people. this first solution is in my opinion the worst one has it would throw in the trash everything that used to be stable. in the long run it's potentially has good has the second one but the short term has much more negative effect. so why do you think we should pick the first option? wich btw would be more work for the devs.

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

don't forget to look at the problem and effect of the solution from every angle before picking something good for you has it could potentially make things much worse for other people. this first solution is in my opinion the worst one has it would throw in the trash everything that used to be stable. in the long run it's potentially has good has the second one but the short term has much more negative effect. so why do you think we should pick the first option? wich btw would be more work for the devs.

Looking at a reduction in certain prices is better than upping yen payout due to the fact that the economy is already running in equilibrium right now. Plenty of item prices have matched somewhat with the deflation of yen. The problem is many of these fixed price items that obviously don't adjust with the economy because it actually requires devs to look and determine a price.

Link to comment
5 minutes ago, Raichu4u said:

Looking at a reduction in certain prices is better than upping yen payout due to the fact that the economy is already running in equilibrium right now. Plenty of item prices have matched somewhat with the deflation of yen. The problem is many of these fixed price items that obviously don't adjust with the economy because it actually requires devs to look and determine a price.

fair point but in either case these 2 change would change the economy and break this "equilibrium" either by uping the price of item slowly (becaus the market would be hard to move right away since it's based on suply and demand) or radically crashing the price of comp pokemon (the price will crash quickly becaus no one will want to pay for those old comp made with the old price) 

Link to comment
1 minute ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

fair point but in either case these 2 change would change the economy and break this "equilibrium" either by uping the price of item slowly (becaus the market would be hard to move right away since it's based on suply and demand) or radically crashing the price of comp pokemon (the price will crash quickly becaus no one will want to pay for those old comp made with the old price) 

Even if bands were cut in half for price, an extra 5K per IV that someone wants to breed isn't going to break the economy. It is less impactful as a whole compared to a general yen buff.

Link to comment
1 minute ago, Raichu4u said:

Even if bands were cut in half for price, an extra 5K per IV that someone wants to breed isn't going to break the economy. It is less impactful as a whole compared to a general yen buff.

i wouldn't be surprise to see the whole market react by cuting the price of comp poke by the same % of the cut of the brace. but by cuting the brace price what do you think will happen to every comp pokemon that was allready made? the price would obviously drop so the old player would have to pay again for something that didn't need to be done this way.

 

i would like to see if you have something bad to say against the raise in yen genration other than something that would very likely happen with both solution.

Link to comment
42 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

1. fucking over everyone who recently spent money on making/buying comp pokemon

   1.1 this would potentially have the side effect of loosing a few player tired of getting fucked by the devs

k.

 

 

 

Btw, the market isnt currently build only around comps, but around shinies too. Its much more complex than it.

 

In the pre-items/UI upgrade Elite 4 patch, it was a good way of making money (the "Yen per Second" rate was good).

 

I didnt even tryed  a single League rematch after update (more for time lacking), but seens like now the consumables required are slight elevated, as the time to beat them too. (Which doesnt make it look so atractive, at least for me). I literally skiped gyms cus they were boring and just focused on that instance.

 

BP braces/ability pill were a good kick-off, they can just upgrade this system and make the game less  dependent on  pure yen to achiev goals.

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, Risadex said:

Btw, the market isnt currently build only around comps, but around shinies too. Its much more complex than it.

don't worry i am well aware that the market is large and comp pokemon aren't everything but for those who foccus on that market and specialize in it it could change their whole world instantly.

7 minutes ago, Risadex said:

BP braces/ability pill were a good kick-off, they can just upgrade this system and make the game less  dependent on  pure yen to achiev goals.

having a multi curency economy would be very interesting to see happen if we could trade BP. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

having a multi curency economy would be very interesting to see happen if we could trade BP. 

you can already, under the form of items, and it's actually somewhat profitable by selling vitamins, not items/special moves.

About how to fix inflaction, best way would be to create a good burning cash method, since braces etc isn't enough anymore, asking for a fee to take part of the legendary dungeons etc, could be nice. This would help limiting the 'new' cash that the game gets daily. Even if people would be maybe pissed about it, quitting the idea of limited items, and making all seasonal, or event obtainable, would be better, but since greediness speaks first and a limited item will always sell a thousand more than a normal vanity when it's on vanity shop, they most likely wont ever even consider it.

Link to comment
28 minutes ago, razimove said:

you can already, under the form of items, and it's actually somewhat profitable by selling vitamins, not items/special moves.

i know but what i meant was if we could freely trade BP like we can trade pokeyen. being able to aquire BP for like special move that you will need in the future the moment you see a vendor would be much nicer than having to deal with the pain in the ass to wait for one to show up when you are finnally ready.

Link to comment

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.