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The State of the Economy


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4 hours ago, Darkshade said:

It is way harder to farm in comparison to when?

 

And using which methods?

I got easy answer for this one

1. pick up since the people made the pick up items worth less than 10k or at least most of them.

2. E4 NPC are way strong so we lose money to buy items and farm it. which it sucks not counting on the rng from them too.

3. NPC and GYMS were nerfed to the ground in the money they give and exp.

Need more reasons to do something for the economy?  i think not so please help farmingmmo.

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Just wanna quickly point out that if it seems like a LOT of shinys (including uber-rares) have been found recently, it might be largely because nearly everyone is using a donator status to gain access to the mobile beta, especially people who have never used one, or bought RP before. Even if it's just a 7-day donator, if 50%+ of the server uses donator at the same time it might have a temporary effect on the economy. This also includes a large portion the newer wave of players with under 500 hours. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying this is the only factor here or anything but it's certainly a contributor. I'm sure things will slow down a little more in the future. My prediction is by September 23rd.

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offtopic

Spoiler

 

8 hours ago, Goku said:

that is Irrelevant coming from someone who is in a team doing exactly what you are so against.

9 hours ago, Raederz said:

What lowballers do is way different. I keep thinking it should not be allowed, but I also accept that as long as it's allowed, hating on forum is the most I can do.

Let me make my choices, and let my firends make their choices. Sometimes we have consensus (like when we all decided to have you out) and sometimes we dont, but we still enjoy the game together.

7 hours ago, Akshit said:

Reasons why economy is the way it is:

  • Pokeyen is way harder to farm

Not sure of what you mean by hard, but in my opinion it's more like it should be more disversified. There are already pretty easy ways to make little profit (lets say, 500k a day, is never that hard as long as you know what to do), but we are stuck is 4-5 viable ways to make $ which may be a problem.

Quote

Constant Factors due to which deflation hasn't made things better for many:

  • Braces are still worth 10k, TMs still worth the same, etc... while everything else falls; result = people who make their own pokemon keep going broke

I'm not sure that reducing the money sink is right when there is an huge arrival of new players, but in another hand, I recently bred for sale, and noticed that many pokemon are not even worth to breed, being less valuable than the braces cost. So I may support this idea, but would prefer to find another solution about this problem, if one can be found.

4 hours ago, Anthrazit said:

Auction house
To enable players to get the best price for their shiny, I still believe the mentioned implementation of an 'auction house' is the more helpful/important part.
It would also make statements like this obsolete:

Auction is always a good thing for struggling economies, letting the trade be done with full information, on the object, on the value, and on the interest people give it.

Also, I prevents lowball a bit more than just wild trades.

It also let those who want to make profit, because Auctions rarely sell for 100% of the value.

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On 6/10/2018 at 11:29 AM, Zymogen said:

I'm not demanding that something be implemented - if you cared to read the OP, you'll see that I'm looking to facilitate genuine discussion with the input of devs in order to get a feel for what's what. If anything is pointless, it's your comment.

I gave my opinion on the topic in another thread, but I'd like to link it here:

 

On 6/16/2018 at 12:12 AM, Kyu said:

I can say a lot on the topic of video game economies, but I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how pricing and inflation works in-game. There is no "original price" if we do not make an NPC sell the item. It is what players sell it for, and what players are willing to pay for it.

 

For example, let's take a look at Everstones: We can tweak the rates, but if the player count goes up dramatically and the item is generally available throughout the storyline, market instability will occur regardless of what we set rates at, because the item's target demographic is much smaller/different than who are farming it. That's not something we can "solve", nor would we want to, because it builds economic relationships between different gameplay types (farming/stat refinement). We can give the item more uses to encourage consumption or change its availability, but kneejerk economy changes are usually a Bad Idea.

 

Infact, every "valuable" object in-game which does not degrade (e.g. your shinies/comps), and has an infinite supply given time, will trend towards saturation and price reduction. The only real way to protect wealth stored in non-degradable items in an MMO is by using items which are limited by the game itself ("Limited Edition" hats, event-exclusive cosmetics, etc.)

 

The above is why we release periodic "expansions" to content, like what we were hoping to do with HAs, and will do with Sinnoh. Since it protects the economy by creating degradation in gear quality, even if it causes short-term grief, it is better for the game's long-term economy as a whole.

 

Anyway, on a less down note, all of the consumable economy is meant to feed back into Dungeons, since it provides natural incentives to refine stats/breed, consume healing items, etc. So when we get those functional, it should be in a better place.

Note, this was in response to another player who was complaining about the saturation of goods in-game, and I assumed they were referring to things like Everstones.

 

As I mentioned above, I can't really help the fact that the traditional representations of wealth are being upended without changing how they drop. I don't think anyone wants their shiny chances lowered further though.

 

Within our current economic systems, the main 'solutions' which I would explore would be:

  • Changing the baseline prices of farmed items like Everstones by enforcing NPC buy prices closer to their player-decided pricing. e.g. Everstones can now be sold to NPCs for 15k -> the price is now a minimum of 15k from the GTL. This has long-lasting repercussions, increasing the theoretical baseline cost of breeding. It has been done in a past update with Berries.
    • Increasing baseline prices for valuable yet useless items like Nuggets, or common "Typed items" like Sharp Beaks can be a useful way to buff Payday outputs though.
  • Making NPCs more accessible through PvE, without changing their build quality. This can be done through things like consumable buffs, e.g. X Attack & co. being moved to its Gen 7 mechanics, decreasing healing item prices, etc. This only applies to things which are actually hard.
  • More solely yen rewarding daily stuff like Lady Selphy which is in the base game but not here (Is this even fun?)
  • LuckyEggMMO (encourage players to dump wealth into items which are consumable/rare?)
  • Making NPCs payout more (dangerous)
    • Depending on who this buff is targeted towards, it may be more suitable to buff lower-end common NPCs which are of little consequence to established end-game players. Buffing high reward NPCs like the Elite 4 comes with much greater risk since the profit margins are dependent on player skill/strategy.

 

But, I think that the major flaw within the economy is the endgame which doesn't encourage people to refine their stuff and convert from "farmers" to "breeders" in the first place. I'm hoping that dungeons will fix that part since the PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people and doesn't provide much motivation.

 

If there's anything else which you'd like my opinion on, let me know. Sorry that this post isn't better focused; This is a very complex topic with no easy answers

Edited by Kyu
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2 hours ago, Kyu said:

I gave my opinion on the topic in another thread, but I'd like to link it here:

 

Note, this was in response to another player who was complaining about the saturation of goods in-game, and I assumed they were referring to things like Everstones.

 

As I mentioned above, I can't really help the fact that the traditional representations of wealth are being upended without changing how they drop. I don't think anyone wants their shiny chances lowered further though.

 

Within our current economic systems, the main 'solutions' which I would explore would be:

  • Changing the baseline prices of farmed items like Everstones by enforcing NPC buy prices closer to their player-decided pricing. e.g. Everstones can now be sold to NPCs for 15k -> the price is now a minimum of 15k from the GTL. This has long-lasting repercussions, increasing the theoretical baseline cost of breeding. It has been done in a past update with Berries.
    • Increasing baseline prices for valuable yet useless items like Nuggets, or common "Typed items" like Sharp Beaks can be a useful way to buff Payday outputs though.
  • Making NPCs more accessible through PvE, without changing their build quality. This can be done through things like consumable buffs, e.g. X Attack & co. being moved to its Gen 7 mechanics, decreasing healing item prices, etc. This only applies to things which are actually hard.
  • More solely yen rewarding daily stuff like Lady Selphy which is in the base game but not here (Is this even fun?)
  • LuckyEggMMO (encourage players to dump wealth into items which are consumable/rare?)
  • Making NPCs payout more (dangerous)
    • Depending on who this buff is targeted towards, it may be more suitable to buff lower-end common NPCs which are of little consequence to established end-game players. Buffing high reward NPCs like the Elite 4 comes with much greater risk since the profit margins are dependent on player skill/strategy.

 

But, I think that the major flaw within the economy is the endgame which doesn't encourage people to refine their stuff and convert from "farmers" to "breeders" in the first place. I'm hoping that dungeons will fix that part since the PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people and doesn't provide much motivation.

 

If there's anything else which you'd like my opinion on, let me know. Sorry that this post isn't better focused; This is a very complex topic with no easy answers

I like the luckyeggMMO part.

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6 hours ago, Kyu said:

I gave my opinion on the topic in another thread, but I'd like to link it here:

 

Note, this was in response to another player who was complaining about the saturation of goods in-game, and I assumed they were referring to things like Everstones.

 

As I mentioned above, I can't really help the fact that the traditional representations of wealth are being upended without changing how they drop. I don't think anyone wants their shiny chances lowered further though.

 

Within our current economic systems, the main 'solutions' which I would explore would be:

  • Changing the baseline prices of farmed items like Everstones by enforcing NPC buy prices closer to their player-decided pricing. e.g. Everstones can now be sold to NPCs for 15k -> the price is now a minimum of 15k from the GTL. This has long-lasting repercussions, increasing the theoretical baseline cost of breeding. It has been done in a past update with Berries.
    • Increasing baseline prices for valuable yet useless items like Nuggets, or common "Typed items" like Sharp Beaks can be a useful way to buff Payday outputs though.
  • Making NPCs more accessible through PvE, without changing their build quality. This can be done through things like consumable buffs, e.g. X Attack & co. being moved to its Gen 7 mechanics, decreasing healing item prices, etc. This only applies to things which are actually hard.
  • More solely yen rewarding daily stuff like Lady Selphy which is in the base game but not here (Is this even fun?)
  • LuckyEggMMO (encourage players to dump wealth into items which are consumable/rare?)
  • Making NPCs payout more (dangerous)
    • Depending on who this buff is targeted towards, it may be more suitable to buff lower-end common NPCs which are of little consequence to established end-game players. Buffing high reward NPCs like the Elite 4 comes with much greater risk since the profit margins are dependent on player skill/strategy.

 

But, I think that the major flaw within the economy is the endgame which doesn't encourage people to refine their stuff and convert from "farmers" to "breeders" in the first place. I'm hoping that dungeons will fix that part since the PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people and doesn't provide much motivation.

 

If there's anything else which you'd like my opinion on, let me know. Sorry that this post isn't better focused; This is a very complex topic with no easy answers

Thanks for giving the time to read this discussion and provide a detailed response, it hasn’t gone unnoticed. 

 

Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say “The PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people”?

Edited by Zymogen
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2 hours ago, Zymogen said:

Thanks for giving the time to read this discussion and provide a detailed response, it hasn’t gone unnoticed. 

 

Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say “The PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people”?

He probably means it's harder for the new players to get into the entire comp scenario and actually be good enough to challenge the the top dogs that have been playing comp a few years. So for new players winning official tournaments is very unlikely.

Edited by Goku
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8 hours ago, Zymogen said:

Out of curiosity, what do you mean when you say “The PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people”?

This is more of a criticism of the entire series rather than PokeMMO's implementation, but the base game does a very poor job at explaining the mechanical complexities which go into a typical PvP battle and preparing you for them. Hidden mechanics, obfuscated stats, and inconsistent rulesets for classes of skills are the worst offenders to me, but the short campaign which focuses on little more than finding the right typing in the grass outside is a major problem.

 

Coupled with vague documentation in-game which forces you to read a fansite to understand how the game works, it becomes very hard to play the game on an advanced level if you're not willing (or able) to sit down and read the manual.

 

5 hours ago, ImFunk said:

Please.

What NPCs do you think need attention?

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3 minutes ago, Kyu said:

What NPCs do you think need attention?

I would need to go through and battle them all to give you specifics but a large portion of NPCs only give you $1-3k and they just aren't worth fighting. Considering how dynamic the markets are (Everstones, Mushrooms, Heart Scales etc.) I feel we need a stable way to earn money, that isn't constantly changing. The reason behind the NPC nerf was the addition of Unova, which gave us more NPCs to fight, but wouldn't it be better to balance that by making them more difficult? The gym rematches are somewhat difficult with fair payouts and it's the most reliable way of earning money right now. I don't see the harm in increasing the difficulty and the payouts of other NPCs. 

 

Increased difficulty + increased payout (maybe longer cooldown?) > completely nerfing NPCs. 

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19 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

But there are lots of these trainers, right?

Yes, but does that really balance it out? It takes much more time to make the same amount of money as before the nerf, and it isn't worth the time compared to other methods. 

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45 minutes ago, ImFunk said:

I don't see the harm in increasing the difficulty and the payouts of other NPCs. 

NPC are good way for a new ppl to earn exp/cash, so increasing difficulty for all NPC is bad idea. Making more NPC like that single guy in Game phreak HQ is another story

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5 minutes ago, Toupi said:

Making more NPC like that single guy in Game phreak HQ is another story

I wouldn't mind this but isn't the payout around 19k? If they added more like this they would lower that payout, and at that point we're dealing with the exact same thing. 

 

More NPCs = more time/less money. 

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Thanks a lot for the response and explanation/insight.
I totally agree with your statement:

17 hours ago, Kyu said:

But, I think that the major flaw within the economy is the endgame which doesn't encourage people to refine their stuff and convert from "farmers" to "breeders" in the first place. I'm hoping that dungeons will fix that part since the PvP in this game is impenetrable for a lot of people and doesn't provide much motivation.

 

17 hours ago, Kyu said:

Changing the baseline prices of farmed items like Everstones by enforcing NPC buy prices closer to their player-decided pricing. e.g. Everstones can now be sold to NPCs for 15k -> the price is now a minimum of 15k from the GTL. This has long-lasting repercussions, increasing the theoretical baseline cost of breeding.

In my opinion everstones were quite stable in their value over an impressive amount of time.
The maybe currently stronger influences to lower their price, like...

  • lower demand
    • maybe less people breeding because they have projects "on hold", as they might be waiting for moves or abilities to work/might be waiting for certain hidden abilites
    • the occasional everstone drop in Unvoa (for example while training in Giant Chasm)
  • higher supply
    • again, the occasional everstone drop in Unova
    • maybe more people farming for everstones
      • bigger playerbase
      • people that might prefer everstone farming over other options to farm money

...may become weaker in the future, with

  • higher demand
    • with more people breeding due to implemented abilites and moves/more people advance to PvP or new PvE endgame content
  • lower supply
    • less people would farm for everstones if more interesting options to spend the time/farm for money (e.g. dungeon) were available

 

I'd personally like to see if the price of everstones could be stable in the long run - without intervention via a price tag.

 

17 hours ago, Kyu said:

If there's anything else which you'd like my opinion on, let me know. Sorry that this post isn't better focused; This is a very complex topic with no easy answers

This might be something for the distant future and is under the premise that I remember/understood you correctly to one day expand the functionality of the GTL:
What features could be added to the GTL/ingame trading system?
Would you believe an 'acution house' to be beneficial or are there drawbacks that you see? (I am sorry to mention that idea yet again, but thats simply because I'd like to know your opinion on it.)

 

Influencing this, but more generally:
Which part of trading is considered a desired part of the playing experience and which byproduct would be considered undesired?
e.g. If the GTL is used for sniping/flipping, is it regarded as a deviation from the content you want people to explore (and thus eventually impeded in the future) or is it part of the content/regarded as a valid way to earn money in the MMO (and thus promoted further in the future)?

 

Thanks a lot for any perspective.

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1 hour ago, Darkshade said:

But there are lots of these trainers, right?

Yeah, there are roughly 520+ NPCs available to rematch across all regions combined. (I could have miscounted but it's ABOUT that many) However, I don't think the amount of trainers matters because it takes forever to fight them all. Their payouts vary, but their total payout is roughly 1.3m WITH Amulet Coin. (this doesn't include the Level 100 E4s (too hard for me cause I'm bad) or any Swimmers/Tuber NPCs (too poor).) And it took me playing 6-8 hours a day for 3 days to finish fighting every rematchable NPC.

520+ battles....If each battle takes on average, let's say, 2 minutes each....
2 min per battle x 520 battles = 1,040 minutes
1,040 minutes = roughly 17 hours.
(please excuse any bad maths, I'm just bad)

So, 17 hours to make 1.3m. 

Which is mehhh. That's why people pick out the worthwhile ones (ones that pay 3-6k+) and ignore the rest. I personally do a npc run that nets around 500k for like 3-4 hours of grind. (All gyms + most Trainers that give 3k+) So, I think SOME NPC payouts are fair. (It was alot better before the nerfs but it's still a decent income). Some other's probably need a buff though imo because spending 17 hours to make 1.3m is just lol.

I think buffing the smaller NPCs like Kyu said here would be okay and really nice. 

18 hours ago, Kyu said:
  • Making NPCs payout more (dangerous)
    • Depending on who this buff is targeted towards, it may be more suitable to buff lower-end common NPCs which are of little consequence to established end-game players. Buffing high reward NPCs like the Elite 4 comes with much greater risk since the profit margins are dependent on player skill/strategy.

I feel like if players take the time to rematch EVERYONE and spend DAYS to do it, there should be a bigger payout than that. I'm curious to know other's opinions on that though.
The data I collected doesn't include E4 rematches so that's not even a factor of the 1.3m. 

-------------------------------------------------------------

Here's the data I gathered if anyone wanted it.

I got this info from my npc money guide where I collected data on all trainer's rematch payouts with Amulet Coin. It's up-to-date and correct, afaik. (my last run through of them all was when Unova trainer rematches got added in the February Update.)
Data Collected

Spoiler

DOES NOT INCLUDE E4 REMATCHES OR SWIMMER/TUBER NPCs

KANTO
TOTAL CASH = $ 341,744

Spoiler

Viridian Forest
Total Cash = $ 6,000
Bug Catcher Rick = $ 1,200
Bug Catcher Doug = $ 1,230
Bug Catcher Anthony = $ 1,200
Bug Catcher Charlie = $ 1,200
Bug Catcher Sammy = $ 1,170



Route 3
Total Cash = $ 5,865
Lass Janice = $ 780
Bug Catcher Colton = $ 615
Youngster Ben = $ 820
Bug Catcher Greg = $ 615
Lass Sally = $ 820
Youngster Calvin = $ 780
Bug Catcher James = $ 615
Lass Robin = $ 820



Mt. Moon
Total Cash = $ 7,235 
Bug Catcher Kent = $ 615
Lass Iris = $ 820
Super Nerd Jovan = $ 1,440
Bug Catcher Robby = $ 600
Lass Miriam = $ 800
Youngster Josh = $ 800
Hiker Marcos = $ 2,160



Route 24 
Total Cash = $ 5,065
Bug Catcher Cale = $ 615
Lass Ali = $ 780
Youngster Timmy = $ 800
Lass Reli = $ 820
Camper Ethan = $ 1,025
Camper Shane = $ 1,025



Route 25
Total Cash = $ 11,625
Hiker Franklin = $ 2,115
Hiker Wayne = $ 2,160
Youngster Joey = $ 900
Youngster Dan = $ 820
Picnicker Kelsey = $ 950
Hiker Nob = $ 2,115
Camper Flint = $ 925
Youngster Chad = $ 820
Lass Haley = $ 820



Route 6
Total Cash = $ 5,375
Camper Jeff = $ 1,000
Picnicker Isabelle = $ 1,000
Bug Catcher Elijah = $ 585
Picnicker Nancy = $ 1,025
Camper Ricky = $ 1,150
Bug Catcher Keigo = $ 615



Route 11
Total Cash = $ 21,920
Youngster Eddie = $ 820
Youngster Dave = $ 820
Youngster Dillon = $ 820
Gamer Hugo = $ 3,290
Engineer Bernie = $ 2,880
Gamer Jasper = $ 3,360
Engineer Braxton = $ 2,880
Gamer Darian = $ 3,010
Youngster Yasu = $ 820
Gamer Dirk = $ 3,220



Route 9
Total Cash = $ 11,645
Picnicker Alicia = $ 1,025
Hiker Jeremy = $ 2,115
Camper Chris = $ 1,050
Bug Catcher Brent = $ 615
Bug Catcher Conner = $ 615
Camper Drew = $ 1,000
Hiker Brice = $ 2,160
Picnicker Caitlin = $ 950 
Hiker Alan = $ 2,115



Route 10
Total Cash = $ 11,880
Picnicker Heidi = $ 1,000
PokeManiac Mark = $ 2,760
PokeManiac Herman = $ 2,820
Hiker Trent = $ 2,160
Hiker Clark = $ 2,115
Picnicker Carol = $ 1,025



Rock Tunnel
Total Cash = $ 29,230
PokeManiac Ashton = $ 2,760
PokeManiac Winston = $ 2,880
Picnicker Martha = $ 1,025
PokeManiac Steve = $ 2,880
Hiker Allen = $ 2,160
Hiker Eric = $ 2,160
Hiker Lenny = $ 2,115
Hiker Oliver = $ 2,160
Hiker Lucas = $ 2,160
Picnicker Sofia = $ 925
Hiker Dudley = $ 2,160
PokeManiac Cooper = $ 2,820 
Picnicker Leah = $ 1,025
Picnicker Ariana = $ 1,025
Picnicker Dana = $ 975



Route 8
Total Cash = $ 17,275
Lass Julia = $ 820
Gamer Rich = $ 3,290
Super Nerd Glenn = $ 1,440
Twins Eli & Anne = $ 705
Lass Paige = $ 820
Super Nerd Leslie = $ 1,440
Lass Andrea = $ 780
Lass Megan = $ 780
Biker Jaren = $ 1,200
Biker Ricardo = $ 1,200
Super Nerd Aidan = $ 1,440
Gamer Stan = $ 3,360



Route 12
Total Cash = $ 13,600
Fisherman Ned = $ 2,160
Fisherman Chip = $ 2,115
Fisherman Hank = $ 2,115
Fisherman Elliot = $ 2,160
Young Couple Gia & Jes = $ 1,505
Rocker Luca = $ 1,440
Camper Justin = $ 1,025
Fisherman Andrew = $ 1,080 



Route 13
Total Cash = $ 16,140
Picnicker Alma = $ 1,025
Birdkeeper Sebastian = $ 1,440
Picnicker Susie = $ 1,025
Beauty Lola = $ 3,290
Beauty Sheila = $ 3,290
Picnicker Valerie= $ 1,025
Picnicker Gwen = $ 1,025
Birdkeeper Robert = $ 1,410
Birdkeeper Perry = $ 1,410
Biker Jared = $ 1,200



Route 14
Total Cash = $ 13,995
Birdkeeper Carter = $ 1,410
Birdkeeper Mitch = $ 1,440
Birdkeeper Beck = $ 1,380
Birdkeeper Marlon = $ 1,440
Birdkeeper Donald = $ 1,440
Birdkeeper Benny = $ 1,440
Twins Kiri & Jan = $ 720
Biker Gerald = $ 1,150
Biker Malik = $ 1,200
Biker Isaac = $ 1,175
Biker Lukas = $ 1,200



Route 15
Total Cash = $ 17,145
Biker Ernest = $ 1,175
Biker Alex = $ 1,175
Beauty Grace = $ 3,360
Beauty Olivia = $ 3,150
Picnicker Kindra = $ 1,050
Birdkeeper Chester = $ 1,440
Birdkeeper Edwin = $ 1,410
Picnicker Yazmin = $ 1,025
Picnicker Becky = $ 1,025
Crush Kin Ron & Mya = $ 1,410
Picnicker Celia = $ 925



Route 16
Total Cash = $ 9,354
Young Couple Lea & Jed = $ 1,505
Biker Lao = $ 1,200
Cue Ball Koji = $ 1,410
Cue Ball Luke = $ 1,440
Biker Hideo = $ 1,175
Biker Ruben = $ 1,175
Cue Ball Cameron = $ 1,440



Route 17
Total Cash = $ 12,980
Cue Ball Isaiah = $ 1,440
Biker Virgil = $ 1,200
Cue Ball Raul = $ 1,410
Biker Billy = $ 1,200
Cue Ball Jamal = $ 1,380
Biker Jaxon = $ 1,100
Biker Nikolas = $ 1,200
Cue Ball Zeek = $ 1,440
Cue Ball Corey = $ 1,410 
Biker William = $ 1,200



Route 18
Total Cash = $ 4,290
Birdkeeper Jacob = $ 1,440
Birdkeeper Wilton = $ 1,410
Birdkeeper Ramiro = $ 1,440 



Pokemon Mansion
Total Cash = $ 18,580
Burglar Simon = $ 3,360
Burglar Arnie = $ 3,290
Scientist Braydon = $ 2,880
Scientist Ted = $ 2,880
Burglar Lewis = $ 3,290
Scientist Ivan = $ 2,880



Victory Road
Total Cash = $ 24,285
Cool Couple Ray & Tyra = $ 1,650
Cool Trainer Colby = $ 1,935 
Cool Trainer Caroline = $ 1,890
Cool Trainer Alexa = $ 1,890
Cool Trainer George = $ 1,890
PokeManiac Dawson = $ 2,760
Black Belt Daisuke = $ 1,440
Juggler Nelson = $ 2,300
Tamer Vincent = $ 2,350
Juggler Gregory = $ 2,400
Cool Trainer Rolando = $  1,890
Cool Trainer Naomi = $ 1,890



Kanto Gyms 
Total Cash = $ 78,260
Pewter City
Leader Brock = $ 10,790
 

Cerulean City
Leader Misty = $ 10,920
 

Vermillion City
Leader Lt. Surge = $ 11,050
 

Celedon City
Leader Erika = $ 11,180
 

Fuchsia City
Leader Koga = $ 11,310
 

Saffron City
Leader Sabrina = $ 11,440
 

Cinnabar Island
Leader Blaine = $ 11,570

Note: Viridian gym is NOT rematchable

SEVII ISLES
TOTAL CASH = $ 93,580

Spoiler

Island 1
Total Cash = $ 11,375
Kindle Road
Picnicker Claire = $ 1,025
Camper Bryce = $ 1,050
Crush Girl Tanya = $ 1,440
Crush Kin Mik & Kia = $ 1,440
Blackbelt Hugh = $ 1,410
Blackbelt Shea = $ 1,440
Crush Girl Sharon = $ 1,410
Fisherman Tommy = $ 2,160



Island 3
Total Cash = $ 4,015
Bond Bridge
Twins Joy & Meg = $ 690
Aroma Lady Violet = $ 1,680
Aroma Lady Nikki = $ 1,645



Island 5
Total Cash = $ 17,625
Memorial Pillar
Birdkeeper Milo = $ 1,380
Birdkeeper Chaz = $ 1,410
Birdkeeper Harold = $ 1,410

Water Labyrinth
Pkmn Breeder Alize = $ 1,645

Resort Gorgeous
Painter Rayna = $ 920
Lady Jacki = $ 4,080
Lady Gillian = $ 4,080
Painter Celina = $ 960
Painter Daisy = $ 920
Youngster Destin = $ 820



Island 6
Total Cash = $ 23,585
Water Path
Juggler Edward = $ 2,400
Twins Miu & Mia = $ 720 
Aroma Lady Rose = $ 1,680
Hiker Earl = $ 2,070
 

Green Path 
Psychic Jaclyn = $ 1,175
 

Outcast Island
Fisherman Tylor = $ 1,980
 

Ruin Valley
Hiker Daryl = $ 2,160
PokeManiac Hector = $ 2,880
Ruin Maniac Stanly = $ 2,880
Ruin Maniac Foster = $ 2,880
Ruin Maniac Larry = $ 2,760



Island 7
Total Cash = $ 36,980
Trainer Tower
Psychic Rodette = $ 1,200
Psychic Dario = $ 1,200
 

Canyon Entrance
Aroma Lady Miah = $ 1,645
Juggler Mason = $ 2,400
Pkmn Ranger Nicolas = $ 2,520
Pkmn Ranger Madeline = $ 2,520
Young Couple Eve & Jon = $ 1,505
 

Sevault Canyon
Cool Couple Lex & Nya = $ 1,620
Tamer Evan = $ 2,300
Pkmn Ranger Jackson = $ 2,520
Pkmn Ranger Katelyn = $ 2,520
Crush Girl Cyndy = $ 1,410
Cool Trainer Leroy = $ 1,890
Cool Trainer Michelle = $ 1,890
 

Tanoby Ruins
Ruin Maniac Brandon = $ 2,880
Painter Edna = $ 960
Gentleman Clifford = $ 3,360
Ruin Maniac Benjamin = $ 2,640

HOENN
TOTAL CASH = $ 229,265

Spoiler

Route 102
Youngster Calvin = $ 820


Route 104
Lady Cindy = $ 3,995
Rich Boy Winston = $ 4,080
Lass Haley = $ 820


Petalberg Woods
Bug Catcher James = $ 820


Route 115
Battle Girl Cyndy = $ 1,440
Blackbelt Nob = $ 1,920
Expert Timothy = $ 2,750


Route 116
School Kid Karen = $ 975
School Kid Jerry = $ 1,025


Route 106
Fisherman Elliot = $ 2,300


Route 105
Ruin Maniac Andres = $ 3,290


Route 108
Sailor Cory = $ 1,920


Abandoned Ship
Beauty Thalia = $ 3,360
Young Couple Kira & Dan = $ 1,920


Route 110 
PokeFan Isabel = $ 3,360
Collecter Edwin = $ 3,360
Triathlete Abigail = $ 2,400
Triathlete Benjamin = $ 2,400


Route 103
Twins Amy & Liv = $ 705
PokeFan Miguel = $ 3,360


Route 117
Pkmn Breeder Lydia = $ 2,400
Triathlete Maria = $ 2,300
Pkmn Breeder Isaac = $ 2,400
Sr and Jr Anna & Meg = $ 940
Triathlete Dylan = $ 2,400


Route 118
Aroma Lady Rose = $ 2,400
Guitarist Dalton = $ 1,920


Route 112
Hiker Trent = $ 2,300


Mt. Chimney
Expert Shelby = $ 2,800
Hiker Sawyer = $ 2,400


Jagged Pass
Picnicker Diana = $ 820                            
Camper Ethan = $ 800
                                          

Route 111
Ruin Manaic Dusty = $ 3,360
Cool Trainer Wilton = $ 3,240
Cool Trainer Brooke = $ 3,360


Route 113
Parasol Lady Madeline = $ 2,350
Ninja Boy Lao = $ 615        


Route 114
PokeManaic Steve = $ 3,360
Kindler Bernie = $ 1,920


Meteor Falls
Old Couple John & Jay = $ 2,400                     
Dragon Tamer Nicolas = $ 3,360


Route 119
Pkmn Ranger Jackson = $ 3,360
Pkmn Ranger Catherine = $ 3,360


Route 120
Bird Keeper Robert = $ 1,920
Bug Maniac Jeffery = $ 2,870


Route 121
Cool Trainer Cristin = $ 3,300
Gentleman Walter = $ 3,290
Beauty Jessica = $ 3,360


Mt. Pyre
Pkmn Breeder Gabrielle = $ 2,350
Hex Manaic Valerie = $ 1,440


Route 123
Psychic Cameron = $ 1,410
Guitarist Fernando = $ 1,800 
Psychic Jacki = $ 1,380


Route 125
Sailor Ernest = $ 1,920


Route 127
Black Belt Koji = $ 1,880 
                                       
Route 128
Triathlete Isaiah = $ 2,400
Triathlete Katelyn = $ 2,200                                            
                                
Route 126          
Triathlete Pablo = $ 2,300                                           
                            
Victory Road
Pkmn Trainer Wally = $ 3,600

 

Hoenn Gyms 
Total Cash = $ 89,960
Rustboro
Leader Roxanne = $ 10,790
 

Dewford
Leader Brawly = $ 10,920
 

Mauville
Leader Wattson = $ 11,050
 

Lavaridge
Leader Flannery = $ 11,180
 

Petalberg
Leader Norman = $ 11,310
 

Fortree
Leader Winona = $ 11,440
 

Mossdeep
Leaders Tate & Liza = $ 11,570
 

Sootopolis
Leader Juan = $ 11,700

UNOVA
TOTAL CASH = $ 681,390

Spoiler

Route 2
Total Cash = $ 2,520
Youngster Jimmy = $ 840
Lass Mali = $ 840
Youngster Roland = $ 840



Dreamyard 
Total Cash = $ 20,760
(Outside)
Lass Eri = $ 840
Youngster Joey = $ 840
 

(Basement)
Scientist Markus = $ 3,180
Scientist Chan = $ 3,180
Psychic Tommy = $ 2,120
Scientist Katherine = $ 3,180
Psychic Rudolph = $ 2,120
Scientists Luke = $ 3,180
Psychic Future = $ 2,120


Route 3
Total Cash = $ 12,660
Nursery Aide Autumn = $ 2,300
Preschooler Doyle = $ 180
Preschooler Wendy = $ 180 
Preschooler Tully = $ 180 
PKMN Breeder Adelaide = $ 2,640
Schoolkid Al = $ 1,075
Schoolkid Marsha = $ 1,075
Schoolkid Gina = $ 1,075
PKMN Breeder Galen = $ 2,880
Schoolkid Edgar = $ 1,075 



Wellspring Cave
Total Cash = $ 5,920
Blackbelt Edward = $ 1,960
Battlegirl Maggie = $ 1,960
Battlegirl Xiao = $ 2,000



Pinwheel Forest 
Total Cash = $ 26,230
(Outer)
Nurse Shery = $ 2,350
Preschooler Juliet = $ 185
Preschooler Homer = $ 185
Youngster Keita = $ 880
Youngster Zachary = $ 880
Blackbelt Kentaro = $ 1,840
Battlegirl Lee = $ 1,840
 

(Inner)
Twins Mayo & May = $ 880
PKMN Ranger Forrest = $ 3,290
Youngster Nicholas = $ 880
PKMN Ranger Audra = $ 3,290
PKMN Ranger Irene = $ 3,290
PKMN Ranger Miguel = $ 3,360
 

(Roadway)
Schoolkid Sammy = $ 1,100
Lass Eva = $ 880
Schoolkid Millie = $ 1,100



Castelia City
Total Cash = $ 43,525
Battle Company Building
(47th Floor)
Clerk Ingrid = $ 2,350
Clerk Clemens = $ 2,350
Clerk Alberta = $ 2,350
Scientist Randall = $ 2,760
Clerk Warren = $ 2,350    

(55th Floor)
Clerk Ivan = $ 2,350
Scientist Samantha = $ 2,760
Scientist Steve = $ 2,760
Clerk Wade = $ 3,920


GameFREAK Building
(22nd Floor)
GameFREAK Morimoto = $ 19,575


Route 4
Total Cash = $ 21,770
Backpacker Keane = $ 1,410
Backpacker Anna = $ 1,410
Backpacker Jill = $ 1,410
Backpacker Waylon = $ 1,410
Backpacker Jerome = $ 1,410
Worker Scott = $ 2,300
Worker Zack = $ 2,300
Fisherman Hubert = $ 1,840
Fisherman Andrew = $ 1,840
Parasol Lady April = $ 1,840
Worker Gus = $ 2,300  
Worker Shelby = $ 2,300



Desert Resort
Total Cash = $ 21,030
Doctor Jerry = $ 3,290
Backpacker Kelsey = $ 1,410
Backpacker Liz = $ 1,410
Backpacker Elaine = $ 1,410
Psychic Cybil = $ 1,840
Backpacker Nate = $ 1,410
Psychic Gavin = $ 1,840
Psychic Low = $ 1,840 
PKMN Ranger Jaden = $ 3,290
PKMN Ranger Mylene = $ 3,290



Relic Castle 
Total Cash = $ 3,680

Psychic Perry = $ 1,840
Psychic Dua = $ 1,840


Route 5
Total Cash = $ 11,870

Baker Jenn = $ 2,350
Harlequin Paul = $ 1,880
Dancer Brian = $ 1,880
Artist Horton = $ 2,880
Backpacker Lois = $ 1,440
Backpacker Michael = $ 1,440



Cold Storage
Total Cash = $ 15,900

(Outside)
Youngster Kenneth = $ 900
Youngster Albert = $ 900
Worker Eddie = $ 2,350
 

(Inside)
Worker Victor = $ 2,350
Worker Glenn = $ 2,350
Worker Filipe = $ 2,350
Worker Patton = $ 2,350
Worker Ryan = $ 2,350



Route 6 
Total Cash = $ 18,940
Scientist William = $ 2,820
PKMN Ranger Shanti = $ 3,360
Parasol Lady Nicole = $ 1,880
Scientist Ron = $ 2,820
Scientist Maria = $ 2,820
Parasol Lady Tihana = $ 1,880
PKMN Ranger Richard = $ 3,360



Mistralton Cave
Total Cash = $ 3,920
Hiker Clarke = $ 1,960
Hiker Hugh = $ 1,960



Chargestone Cave
Total Cash = $ 28,170
Ace Trainer Jared = $ 3,500
Scientist Ronald = $ 2,940
Scientist Naoko = $ 2,940
Doctor Wayne = $ 3,430
Ace Trainer Allison = $ 3,500
Ace Trainer Stella = $ 3,500
Scientist Orville = $ 2,940
Hiker Hardy = $ 1,920
Ace Trainer Corky = $ 3,500

 

Route 7
Total Cash = $ 19,010
Backpacker Terrance = $ 1,500
Youngster Mikey = $ 920
Yongster Parker = $ 920
Ace Trainer Elmer = $ 3,500
Backpacker Ruth = $ 1,470
PKMN Ranger Mary = $ 3,430
PKMN Ranger Pedro = $ 3,430
Harlequin Pat = $ 1,920
Harlequin Ian = $ 1,920



Celestial Tower
Total Cash = $ 26,830

Psychic Doreen = $ 1,920
Lass Kara = $ 920
Pokefan Jude = $ 3,430
Pokefan Georgia = $ 3,430
Psychic Belle = $ 1,920
Psychic Micki = $ 1,920
Psychic Lin = $ 1,920
Psychic Bryce = $ 1,920
Nurse Sachiko = $ 2,450
Ace Trainer Beckett = $ 3,500
Ace Trainer Kassandra = $ 3,500



Twist Mountain
Total Cash = $ 29,120

Hiker Terrell = $ 1,960
Hiker Darrell = $ 1,960
Ace Trainer Caroll = $ 3,570
Battlegirl Sharon = $ 1,960
Worker Brand = $ 2,450
Worker Heath = $ 2,450
Worker Rob = $ 2,450
Worker Cairn = $ 2,450
Doctor Hank = $ 3,500
Hiker Neil = $ 1,960
Blackbelt Teppei = $ 1,960
Worker Rich = $ 2,450



Dragonspiral Tower
Total Cash = $ 7,280
(Surf to the right of entrance)
Ace Trainer Jesse = $ 3,640
Ace Trainer Jamie = $ 3,640



Route 8
Total Cash = $ 13,140

PKMN Ranger Lewis = $ 3,570
Parasol Lady Melita = $ 2,000
PKMN Ranger Annie = $ 3,570
Fisherman Bruce = $ 2,000
Parasol Lady Lumi = $ 2,000



Moor of Icirrus
Total Cash = $ 11,140

Parasol Lady Mariah = $ 2,000
PKMN Ranger Harry = $ 3,570
PKMN Ranger Chloris = $ 3,570
Fisherman Damon = $ 2,000

 

Route 9
Total Cash = $ 26,190

Biker Phillip = $ 2,080
Roughneck Reese = $ 1,560
Hooligans Jim & Cas = $ 3,640
Biker Zeke = $ 2,080
Roughneck Chance = $ 1,530
 

Shopping Mall
Waitress Flo = $ 2,550
Rich Boy Manuel = $ 5,100
Waiter Bert = $ 2,550
Lady Isabel = $ 5,100



Challenger's Cave
Total Cash = $ 16,820
Ace Trainer Terry = $ 3,850
Ace Trainer Beverly = $ 3,850 
Veteran Shaun = $ 4,560
Veteran Julia = $ 4,560



Opelucid City
Total Cash = $ 6,440

Triple Battle House
Ace Trainer Lou = $ 3,710
Ace Trainer Eileen = $ 2,730


 

Route 10
Total Cash = $ 21,790
Battlegirl Amy = $ 2,040
Ace Trainer Johan = $ 3,710
Veteran Karla = $ 4,125
Blackbekt Corey = $ 2,040
Hiker Bret = $ 2,040
Ace Trainer Cheyenne = $ 3,710
Veteran Chester = $ 4,125



Victory Road
Total Cash = $ 29,870

Ace Trainer Shanta = $ 3,780
Ace Trainer Dwayne = $ 3,780
Veteran Tiffany = $ 4,480
Ace Trainer Cathy = $ 3,780
Blackbelt Tyrone = $ 2,080
Doctor Logan = $ 3,710
Ace Trainer David = $ 3,780
Veteran Martell = $ 4,480

 

Route 11
Total Cash = $ 10,800

Backpacker Talon = $ 1,620
PKMN Ranger Thalia = $ 3,780
Backpacker Corin = $ 1,620
PKMN Ranger Crofton = $ 3,780



Village Bridge 
Total Cash = $ 4,490

Schoolkid Serena = $ 1,250
Scientist Shannon = $ 3,240



Route 12
Total Cash = $ 12,260

Backers Fey & Sue = $ 3,300
PKMN Breeder Ethel = $ 3,180
Schoolkid Jem = $ 1,300
Schoolkid Ann = $ 1,300
PKMN Breeder Eustace = $ 3,180

 

Route 13
Total Cash = $ 32,880

Lass Fey = $ 1,040
Youngster Astor = $ 1,040
Artist Zach = $ 3,300
Fisherman Jones = $ 2,160 
Fisherman Mick = $ 2,120
Parasol Lady Laura = $ 2,160
Fisherman Pete = $ 2,160
Fisherman Vince = $ 2,160
Twins Emy & Lin = $ 1,040
Gentleman Yan = $ 6,750
Socialite Marian = $ 6,750
Blackbelt Benjamin = $ 2,160



Route 14
Total Cash = $ 15,970

Fisherman Sid = $ 2,160
Blackbelt Jay = $ 2,160
Backpacker Vicki = $ 1,650
Hiker Jebediah = $ 2,160
Ace Trainer Kipp = $ 3,920
Ace Trainer Junko = $ 3,920



Abundant Shrine
Total Cash = $ 4,080

Youngster Wes = $ 1,020
Lass Lurleen = $ 1,020
Lass Maki = $ 1,020
Youngster Lester = $ 1,020

 

Route 15
Total Cash = $ 15,620

Pokefan Elliot = $ 3,780
PKMN Ranger Shelly = $ 3,780
Battlegirl Susie = $ 2,160
PKMN Ranger Keith = $ 3,780
Hiker Kit = $ 2,120

 

Route 16
Total Cash = $ 10,430

Policeman Daniel = $ 2,350
Cyclist Krissa = $ 1,880
Backpacker Stephen = $ 1,440
Backpacker Peter = $ 1,440
Cyclist Hector = $ 1,880
Backpacker Lora = $ 1,440

 

Route 1
Total Cash = $ 8,960

(Surf west of Route 1)
PKMN Ranger Brenda = $ 3,500
Fisherman Sean = $ 1,960
PKMN Ranger Claude = $ 3,500


Route 17
Total Cash = $ 1,960

Fisherman Lydon = $ 1,960

skipped swimmers




Route 18
Total Cash = $ 11,160

Hiker Jeremiah = $ 1,960
Backpacker Kumiko = $ 1,500
Backpacker Sam = $ 1,500
Veteran Ray = $ 4,240
Battlegirl Hillary = $ 1,960 

skipped swimmers



P2 Laboratory
Total Cash = $ 2,940

Scientist Nathan = $ 2,940



Unova Gyms
Total Cash = $ 105,315
Striation City
Leader Cilean - 8,715
Leader Cress - 8,715
Leader Chili - 8,715


Nacrene City
Leader Lenora - 10,920


Castelia City
Leader Burgh - 11,050 


Nimbasa City
Leader Elesa - 11,180


Driftveil City
Leader Clay - 11,310


Mistralton City 
Leader Skyla - 11,440


Icirrus City
Leader  Brycen - 11,570


Opelucid City 
Leader Iris - 11,700

 

Link to comment
3 hours ago, ImFunk said:

Increased difficulty + increased payout (maybe longer cooldown?) > completely nerfing NPCs. 

20 minutes ago, Staggiie said:

That's why people pick out the worthwhile ones (ones that pay 3-6k+) and ignore the rest. I personally do a npc run that nets around 500k for like 3-4 hours of grind. (All gyms + most Trainers that give 3k+) So, I think SOME NPC payouts are fair.

An aspect to this came to my mind:
In theory, if the NPCs were more challenging and gave more money, it could be more fun to fight them. The ratio of money gained/time invested could be the same as before if wanted (less disruptive while still achieving to provide something that feels more rewarding).
 

But now, the NPCs have become challenging to a point where (more) newer players might fail to beat them.
While not providing more income/hour, this shift might still have a negative impact on the economy as the income of newer players drops.
That change would disadvantage players who have less (game progress/comps/...)

Rebattling (non gym leader) NPCs could be seen as an entry-level job (another one for example 'Payday' without Pickup) that any new player may pursue to farm money.
It might be important that it is still available to those who need it.
More advanced players could still pursue the more challenging tasks available to them (rebattling gyms, farming BPs which value rose, ...)

 

Link to comment
2 hours ago, Zymogen said:

But having a large quantity of low-payout trainers is hilariously boring and time consuming, right? 

Sure, but the request seems to be increase their payout and balance it by making them harder.

 

While more interesting, you've just made money harder to obtain for the average populace, and made those battles longer  (although time:reward may be higher overall)

 

They're low end easy mobs, we have other NPCs that already fulfil the requested role.

Link to comment
2 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

Sure, but the request seems to be increase their payout and balance it by making them harder.

 

While more interesting, you've just made money harder to obtain for the average populace, and made those battles longer  (although time:reward may be higher overall)

 

They're low end easy mobs, we have other NPCs that already fulfil the requested role.

I demand to be cited as a scource XD

Link to comment
29 minutes ago, Darkshade said:

I didn't quite reach your post before I replied, but I'm amused that it's almost a mirror of the same sentiment.

Imo, increasing NPC payouts isn't asking to much, but as a counter-measure to this, you guys could introduce another incentive to 'burn' money, kinda like braces/balls/etc that would help control inflaction.  

Link to comment
10 hours ago, Darkshade said:

They're low end easy mobs, we have other NPCs that already fulfil the requested role.

I Guess there are a lot of easy mobs already. An Sugestion *which could be not so easy to implement* would be each region with a fifferent degree of difficulty*. Like: Kanto = Easy NPcs, Hoenn = Medium Npcs (for end game start) then Unova with Harder NPc (More payout, but more difficulty)

 

*This could apply just after the person have unlock the lvl cap in all regions.

 

ATM Only way I have some "challenge (Iam waiting all itens/moves get working so it ll be really funny tho) " is elite 4(and most people hate it), beside that, PVE is boring (Maybe those Rain teams gyms can get unprepared people sometimes, but 0 cooldown when u get wiped doesnt encourage yourself give more effort). I dont play them just because the challenge, but because the reward too, so you dont need to cross over a whole country in your bycicle to get some changes while u can focus on a niche of pve.

 

 Lets wait for dungeons and see what happens

 

 

 

 

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