Remove 25k money cap for NPC items in GTL

[an0n3]

Hi so to start off on this rant I'm gonna say I'm salty, and I'm about to go off on a big long rant with a lot of pictures and I don't really know how to start off. I'll give you some context on the situation. Anyways, this has been going on for a few weeks now and I guess it all started when I was selling some stuff on GTL right, some of them tms like ice beam or brick break or earthquake or false swipe, some from the story some I bought from NPC marts and whatnot, since I needed cash for a comp poke.  Anyway I noticed as I was putting them up that for each one I put up, I was getting undercut a second later on every single TM or potion or whatever I put up by 1 gold. So I was kinda confused at first and then I was like wtf, so I started putting up more stuff to see what was going on, I even went out to buy an extra ice beam from the NPC in cinnabar to put up in GTL to see what happened. Not surprisingly I was instantly undercut again, and i did another one, same thing. At this point I was kind of annoyed but decided hell, that's annoying, I'll log in and do this another time. 

 

I come back on 5 hrs later to see none of my stuff sold, so I relist them and the same thing happens again. I quickly log off, annoyed and discouraged, thinking this guy will go away eventually. However, 2 hours later I come back on and I still see this guy putting a bunch of NPC items up, the most distinguishable ones being TMs, breeding items (power band, bracer, etc.) of course (and I know it was still the same guy by the unique pricing manner he used to do). At this point the shit getting to me and its become personal, so I went fuck it, and bought more tms to undercut him back, I was mad, I was salty, I was like does this guy never get off? Eventually he would just put a huge stack of stuff at just enough above the npc price to make a profit and I would call it quits again hopefully it'll eventually sell when he gets off. This shit goes on for another like 2-3 weeks and I won't lie I hate that guys guts. Now don't get me wrong I did sell a few things here and there and I was at some point trying to profit as well, but it mostly just became a personal thing for me, call me petty, whatever. Here's some screenshots of what I'm talking about btw, sorted by TM's because its the most distinguishable to see happening. By the time you see this picture you're probably thinking "holy shit petty fool you did that shit with him for so long LOL". Yeah, I did, but I actually only put up like 3-4 of those psychics, the rest are him just spamming after i stopped, so he could have a bunch up. And this is just one specific instance with psychic, he does this shit with literally everything. If you put something up for anything more then the npc price he undercuts you until you stop (LOL).

 

Anyway, you're probably thinking "who cares man, you're just salty you're dealing with some guy who spends 20 hrs a day (yes I came to check periodically and would look at posting history of stuff like tms to see if he was currently on to bother with putting stuff up) 6-7 days a week and mad hes profiting (you're completely right). Whats your point?" Well recently hes also been putting up 99 item stacks of stuff; look up false swipe or earthquake or rock slide or brick break or power belt, etc etc. right now on GTL (anytime you want cause he puts a new stack up every day) at a price where you would normally just break even after tax. "Well what's the problem with that man he's not even making any money." Well you'd be right you see, except the market tax always caps at 25k. So for example, if you put up 1 earthquake tm for 32k, you'd get taxed 1.6k and make 400 profit at 5% tax right? Put up 10, you get taxed 16k, and make 4k. What happens when you put up 99 though? You get taxed for the cap at 25k (the amount it would tax you normally for about 16 of them at that price) and profit 172.5k. And you might be thinking "lol, that's shit, thats a shit return man", until you consider that tms like false swipe, thief, earthquake, and breeding items are liquid enough to sell about 60-100+ in the course of 24 hours. Add to the fact that when priced low enough, no one will undercut you unless they also put up a big stack of them that would exceed the 25k tax cap. So they will pretty much sell everything within 24hrs and make 100-200k with several clicks (FOR JUST ONE ITEM, TM 26 EARTHQUAKE, ADD IN A FEW MORE AND THATS EASILY UPWARDS OF 1 MILLION A DAY OR MORE. That's right, all those hours you spend breeding your perfect IV's, eggmoves, ev training, and levelling a comp to make a few hundred thousand is done with several clicks of work by afking. All those hours you spend farming items, battling gyms? Done with less than a minute of work. Now you might be thinking: "Whatever man, you're still just salty, if the guy wants to spend a bunch of money making money with investments, and watching gtl for hours let him be." Well, you'd be right about that too. But consider that these are items that take literally no time or work to obtain and are accessible to pretty much everyone via NPC marts and the fact that theres literally no point in selling your own stuff unless you can also amass a huge stack of 99 items (meaning there's no point selling stuff unless you have a lot of cash and are looking for profit instead of vending off stuff acquired from the story for example). The guy started doing that with pretty much only thief and false swipe, and he just adds more stuff everyday. If you look up something like Thief tm at any given time you read this post there will be a large stack of it (that gets refreshed everyday) at a price that no one will undercut. Its basically a monopoly by one guy on like every npc buyable item. If none of this gets to you, look at it this way. How stupid is it that you can't use a global exchange service for the purpose of getting rid of stuff without overcoming massive hurdles. How stupid is it that one guy makes 1m off of like 10 clicks in a day (not including the other less liquid stuff he sells by watching market the entire time undercutting). Heres another pic, pay attention to the pages with 50+ of an item (I did undercut him at npc price for some of the items, namely power anklet/belt, earthquake, because I was mad and that's also why it looks like not much have sold in a few hours.) He does this for a TON of stuff not limited to tms. How is anyone supposed to sell any earthquakes for example short of putting up 99 or for lower then npc price?

Anyway I can understand capping market tax at 25k for stuff like pokemon that you cant just obtain in 1 second by going to an ingame NPC because you actually have to work for it. NPCable items such as TMS, Pots, Pokeballs, breeding items (power bracer, anklet, band, ability pill, etc.) shouldn't be capped because they take 0 effort to acquire and unlimited in quantity. It would also help combat inflation and help the economy. 

P.S. YES, I AM STILL SALTY, A LOT OF THIS CONTEXT IS JUST A "YOU DO YOU, IF THE GUY WANTS TO PLAY 20 HOURS A DAY TO MAKE CASH MORE POWER TO HIM" WHICH I AGREE WITH, BUT WHAT IM NOT COOL WITH IS MARKET TAX CAP ENABLING HIM TO AFK AND MONOPOLIZE THE ENTIRE MARKET MAKING MILLIONS A DAY WITH 0 EFFORT. ALSO, IF SOMEONE WOULD TEACH ME HOW TO POST SCREENSHOTS HERE YOU'D KNOW WHAT I MEAN AND THIS WOULD BE A LOT MORE AMUSING TO READ. SORRY FOR WALLS OF TEXTS, AND CAPS, AND POOR GRAMMAR, AND SALT, ETC. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME.

Edited June 5, 2018 by an0n3

[an0n3]

please dont let my salt take away from the point of this post which is that there should NOT be a 25k market tax cap for items that you obtain in unlimited supply from npcs as opposed to stuff like pokemon which take time and effort to acquire. to answer ur question, no

Edited June 5, 2018 by an0n3

[Tyrone]

I agree that the tax cap of 25k shouldn't apply to stackable items.

 

The whole situation can be summarized by "Welcome to capitalism"

[an0n3]

all salt aside, its just abuseable and unhealthy for the economy. removing the cap would be better vs inflation too. gold sinks are needed in mmos.

[Akshit]

10/10 salt, 0/10 suggestion.

 

IMO the current taxation system is fine the way it is, increasing taxation and making things harder with more money sinks doesn't benefit anymore, especially with the current state of economy where making a buck is already hard as it is.

 

[an0n3]

its not increasing the tax, its just raising the cap for stackable items. I dont even care if you dont raise it for all stackable items like berries and everstones and stuff thats farmed, but stuff thats bought from npc is just stupid. and in most cases it wont have any effect whatsoever on farmed items anyway, since stuff like leppas wont reach a cap of 25k even in a stack of 90 unless u for some reason wanna put up like 99 everstones or something to that effect for whatever strange reason (though most ppl wouldnt have that much, since its a LIMITED supply and requires farming). furthermore, i think there are tons of ways to make money in this game whether its thru gym battles, pvp (a life orb is like 160-200k now lmao), breeding, farming, berries, or just plain no lifing gtl like some people. Its just stupid when you can monopolize a market for literally 0 effort and abuse the 25k tax for profit when it doesnt look like the cap was intended for stuff like 99x stacks of tms (which have a very high base value compared to like leppa berries) and at the sametime having access to an infinite "farmable" supply. 

in addition, there arent a lot of gold sinks in this game besides pretty much breeding. pots and stuff sure, but those honestly only really limit newer players especially from my experience, as im still relatively new to the game, the more casual playerbase dealing with the story. after the story's done theres not much need for stuff like hyper potions aside from e4 runs. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by an0n3

[ThePrettyPetard]

i would like to point out that your math are a bit off becaus to make 1m from selling stacks that are to the point of not being undercutable your profit would also be pretty low so you would have to sell 1 thousand tm if you make 1k profit per tm. selling 1 thousand item is a pretty damn big number that honestly seems pretty hard to achive and if you get undercut and fail to sell the minimum you're at lost.

 

selling npc item at profit is honestly something that shouldn't even exist in the first place. we should honestly just have the pokemart item either being sold directly on gtl or have them being advetised has cheaper in store (on each pokemart item) or even make nobody able to sell them for higher than the npc price.

 

but i can sort of agree with you on one thing the 25k cap for stackable listing is something that can crash the economy, the rp market was crashed pretty hard by it.

 

edit: 

in addition, there arent a lot of gold sinks in this game besides pretty much breeding. pots and stuff sure, but those honestly only really limit newer players especially from my experience,

you are wrong on that one yes breeding is pretty much the only money sink but it's a core thing to this game that nearly no one that intend on staying can avoid much also it's pretty expensive wich drains a lot of money. the longer your here the more you will use that money sink

Edited June 5, 2018 by ThePrettyPetard

[an0n3]

well he only lists them for 5% more then the base price from npc at minimum if theres ppl (like me) TRYING TO SELL SHIT. most of the time its just flat out more. take for example the 99 earthquakes at 31500, u only need to sell 17 at 31500 to break even with the tax. every one u sell after is 1.5k profit, and having done this before i can attest to you that u can easily sell 80+ of something as liquid as earthquake or false swipe or breeding items in 24 hours. and then u can apply that to more then one item, sure it takes a lot of capital and the return isnt that high, but i mean isnt the notion simply STUPID in general? it literally makes it impossible for anyone else thats not going to put up a big stack to sell for anything more then the base cost of the item itself. so nobody does it, and one guy just monopolizes the whole thing, even if ur not doing it for profit. i mean im sure if u breed uve probably bought like the wrong breeding item or tm or something before. maybe you got something from story that u wanna sell.

 

anyway my point isnt whether its about how efficient it is in profitability or whatever (tho i can tell u it does sell or i wouldnt be as salty because he literally just puts up 99 stacks everyday and i cant get rid of shit), its just dumb to be able to do that with items that have an easily accessible infinite supply

 

 

Quote

but i can sort of agree with you on one thing the 25k cap for stackable listing is something that can crash the economy, the rp market was crashed pretty hard by it.

yeah, i think ur talking about stuff like people putting giant stacks of ocarinas in GTL, and the prices crashed to like 120k or something because the tax was capped so you could put like a stack of 15 ocarinas (which had the same tax as 3 ocarinas still)  and either everyone had to undercut to sell or they just plain couldnt sell. which is again, kind of stupid and abusable

Edited June 5, 2018 by an0n3

[ThePrettyPetard]

6 minutes ago, an0n3 said:

 i mean im sure if u breed uve probably bought like the wrong breeding item or tm or something before. maybe you got something from story that u wanna sell.

this happen to me a few time to buy the wrong brace or have my plan change becaus of unexpected good nature roll but you know whay i do with those brace? i sell them for 10k (aka the price they should be selling for) to someone around to help me out everyone is happy that way becaus my mistake didn't cost me anything

 

10 minutes ago, an0n3 said:

anyway my point isnt whether its about how efficient it is in profitability or whatever (tho i can tell u it does sell or i wouldnt be as salty because he literally just puts up 99 stacks everyday and i cant get rid of shit), its just dumb to be able to do that with items that have an easily accessible infinite supply

true this whole market should be killed honestly no one should be able to make profit out of infinite npc item

[Akshit]

5 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

true this whole market should be killed honestly no one should be able to make profit out of infinite npc item

If someone is not willing to go to the mart but rather get it quickly at their nearest PC, & someone else does the travel part and makes it available to them .. I think that person is fairly entitled to his or her share of profit.

[ThePrettyPetard]

3 minutes ago, Akshit said:

If someone is not willing to go to the mart but rather get it quickly at their nearest PC, & someone else does the travel part and makes it available to them .. I think that person is fairly entitled to his or her share of profit.

the thing is that i doubt it's the case for everyone has i am sure some people just forget about the pokemart when they see gtl and just imagine this is our only place to buy stuff

 

Sweet jesus did anyone even read this?

if you want a summary it's basically just someone telling how much he got uguublocked when he tried to make easy money with a shitlot of salt. the title says the rest

Edited June 5, 2018 by ThePrettyPetard

[Akshit]

3 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

the thing is that i doubt it's the case for everyone has i am sure some people just forget about the pokemart when they see gtl and just imagine this is our only place to buy stuff

You literally see buildings with Mart written on them, and in Unova you got the Mart NPCs at PC entrance. If someone is ignorant and overlooks it, that's their fault for not exploring the game properly or asking others about it.

 

Also, many are aware but not have access yet, so GTL serves as a nice way to get it beforehand; person who makes that purchase and makes it available to them through GTL is doing a service for which his profit is totally justified.

 

I personally have bought NPC stuff from GTL cause I was too lazy to change region or go elsewhere... If few extra K is spent but my time is saved, & someone makes a petty profit out of it, it's totally fine imo.

[an0n3]

Youre missing my point.ye S the stupid undercutting with npc items grinds my gears, but my main point is about how easily abuseable the 25k market tax cap is. Raising it doesnt affect the common use of gtl or simple profits like that, thats normal. It shouldnt affect like 95+% of players, just stops abuse cases like the aforementioned rp market crash and stuff like 99 tms. A 99 stack of berries pretty much rarely exceeds 25k tax for example, nor do most items the common player sells in stacks. 

 Ocarinas literally dropped from like 200-250k to like 120 last week cuz of stuff like that and its just one example. The cap is just too easily abuseable for stackable items like that. For pokemon, comps, etc its fine. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by an0n3

[Akshit]

8 minutes ago, an0n3 said:

Youre missing my point.ye S the stupid undercutting with npc items grinds my gears, but my main point is about how easily abuseable the 25k market tax cap is. Raising it doesnt affect the common use of gtl or simple profits like that, thats normal. It shouldnt affect like 95+% of players, just stops abuse cases like the aforementioned rp market crash and stuff like 99 tms. A 99 stack of berries pretty much rarely exceeds 25k tax for example, nor do most items the common player sells in stacks. 

 Ocarinas literally dropped from like 200-250k to like 120 last week cuz of stuff like that and its just one example. The cap is just too easily abuseable for stackable items like that. For pokemon, comps, etc its fine. 

RP prices are low cause more and more players are putting money into the game, but if it really is the 25k GTL cap which is encouraging that (which I highly doubt), in the end, it is a good thing.

 

Good for developers, cause well, more money...

Good for players, cause you can get everything for cheaper now.

 

And when one lists a stack of x99 items with 25k tax paid... All it takes is someone to undercut your prices (even by $1) or list at the same price and your profit goes to shit.. So even that 25k is a risk one takes, increasing it would ruin the economy even more... 

[an0n3]

Lol let me put it another way. Lets say 30 day donate tickets are 750k each. Putting up one costs 25k at the cap. How is it healthy that someone can put up a stack of 15 of them for the same price? 20? That means if you profit 20k for one ticket, that is to say if rp were worth 730k for 1.5k counting tax, someone putting up 15 will have profitted 1*20 for the first ticket, and the remaining 14 are untaxed, at 10.5m*0.05. That means compared to someone that sells 15 tickets one by one over time, another person saves over 500k listing them all at once. What does this mean? It means people can undercut by a lot with a giant stack and still make more. If someone puts up a stack of 15 ocarinas for example, lets be honest, that stack is not gonna dissapear for some time, so it forces everyone else to also undercut to sell until its gone. And sure lower rp value can be good, but in the long run just makes it less worth for donators to spend money and overtime causes lower demand for it. Furthermore im just using an rp item as an example, and youre ignoring that it can be applied to pretty much anything. Finally, yeah you can get undercut by 1, but unless they also put up a large stack, depending on the price you put the latge stack is set at, they will only lose money, since you're not able to abuse the 25k cap without exceeding 500k. Not to mention that the 99 stack will eventually sell, since not a lot of ppl will want to lose money putting stuff up at a low price.

Edited June 5, 2018 by an0n3

[razimove]

any TL;DR; out there? 

 

21 minutes ago, an0n3 said:

Lol let me put it another way. Lets say 30 day donate tickets are 750k each. Putting up one costs 25k at the cap. How is it healthy that someone can put up a stack of 15 of them for the same price? 20?

this is a perk, you can use to your benefit. Everyone has access to it. keyword: everyone.

[an0n3]

Yes, its a "perk" if you dont think anything of the consequences of this as some sort of ideal free market vacuum where everyone can take advantage of it and everyone will undercut shit like 99x stacks of tms or whatever. That's not the case though, and whats the point of having a market tax anyway if people are just going to get around it by putting up huge quantities of items that obviously weren't intended to be stacked that high tax wise? Like might as well just remove it so poor players can benefit too.

Edited June 6, 2018 by an0n3

[Archiver]

Oh hey, I'm one of those people selling a stack of TMs.

 

I'm sorry but your suggestion isn't really going to change anything. If they raise the tax then I'm just going to raise my prices or if they remove the tax altogether (really unlikely) then that just means I'm going to make less money since everyone will be doing it or more money because no tax. Either way it won't stop people like me.

[an0n3]

if you raise the price its fine because it opens it up to other players to match ur price, instead of putting a stack of 99 at the price it takes to break even with the base cost+5% tax (the bare minimum to break even) but still profiting because the tax is capped, EVERYDAY, while not letting anyone else really sell anything because they lose money if they try to match unless they put up their own stack large stack which nobody does(besides me because salt). Putting up a stack of 99 at a price like that where no one can undercut everyday and profiting like that ON AN ITEM WITH EASILY ACCESSIBLE infinite supply, while afk just rubs me the wrong way. 

doing something like this everyday is just stupid 

and yes i know the belt is still a loss, i just did it to undercut for the sake of undercut because salty and because i wanted to show that 99 stacks DO sell over the course of 20 hrs by and make u several hundred thousand by afking. and the false swipe was actually a stack of 99 that i had to claim, which is why it only shows 40~ sold instead of 99. 

 

Im not saying it should stop u from reselling npc items, Im saying the tax cap should be raised so you cant abuse it like that because its stupid.

Edited June 6, 2018 by an0n3

[Archiver]

Hmm, I do agree that the 25k tax is too low but even if they do increase it then it's not going to change anything. You say that 'it opens it up to other players to match ur price' but what's stopping them from doing it now?

 

Here's an example, I'm trying to sell 100 Earthquake TMs. The tax is 25k an the TMs itself costs 30k. That's 3.025m investment so I would need to sell the TMs for 30.25k to break even. If I wanted to make a profit I would sell it for 30.5k.

Now let's say they change the price so that the tax is based on how much you're selling the items for. Let's also say that 3m is a 10% tax, that's 300k tax which is much higher than that 25k and a total of 3.3m investment. To break even I would need to sell the TMs for 33k. Now 33k for that TM does tend to be expensive and most players will most likely hesitate to buy it. So to sell the TMs at a reasonable time frame I would sell the TMs for 33.1k for a profit.

 

How exactly does raising the tax let other players match my price when you need a higher investment and making everyone else lose profit from a lower tax?

[an0n3]

no, they dont need to change the tax formula, they just need to remove the cap, so u cant for example, sell 31500 earthquakes everyday WHICH HAS been happening (which would normally be a breakeven if u just sell one) in a stack of 99 which would if uncapped, cost 155925 in tax rather then 25k, which results in a 130k profit EVERYDAY for little work, WHILE monopolizing the market. 

Now if it were uncapped, selling one would be the same as selling 99, so the player selling 99 is not going to put it SUBSTIANTIALLY lower then breakeven point (for one tm) as a player selling one. This means other players can manage to undercut WITHOUT incurring a loss simply because they're taxed but the 99 stack player is NOT (passed 25k). I dont really know how to word this better but I hope you get what I'm saying.

 

Basically, someone putting up a stack of 99 items should be taxed the same as someone putting up 99 tms one listing at a time, so that players that only want to sell like 1 for example can do so without incurring a loss.

Edited June 6, 2018 by an0n3

[Archiver]

Except no one is really monopolizing the market since anyone with money can do it. Don't have the money? Well too bad for you.

And while getting that much money for zero effort might be a problem it doesn't hurt the economy.

[an0n3]

no one's doing it because no one knows about it. and its not a problem til he starts doing it with every item. i mean if ur only looking at this from the perspective of trying to profit sure, ok who cares if one guy decides to do that shit and make a ton of money with no competition. but what about people actually trying to get rid of shit? Well you better sell at a loss because you know, gotta have random 25k cap so only rich players can benefit. I mean removing the cap literally has like no negative effect on 95+% of the players, but lets them actually have a fair chance of selling shit without incurring a loss. There is pretty much no reason to have it for stackable items. For pokemon sure, it feels bad to have to list comps and shinies and stuff for really high prices. but stackable items? and ones that you can get from NPCs no less? There is no reason for it to be there.

[Archiver]

If you have garbage to sell then sell it. But if you want to make a decent profit out of it? Too bad.

You accidentally bought the wrong brace for breeding? Then keep it for later.

Bought too many Flamethrower TMs? Save them in case a pokemon you want needs that move.

Bought 40 Bubble Beam TMs on accident? Well then, now you're just an idiot.

 

And you say you have shit to sell? Then that must mean you got them for free, either from the story line or somewhere else other than the market. Even if you sell them, like the TM Earthquake, for 10k you're still making 10k since you got it for free.

[an0n3]

yeah "too bad" lets just ignore every point I made and everything wrong with the system. Just because something is still "workable" doesnt make it good. The fact of the matter is there is really no point in having a 25k cap for stackable items from npcs except for people looking to abuse it. Removing it affects pretty much none of the normal playerbase. If you want to remove the tax in the game fine, whatever floats your boat, but do it for everyone. pretending that its not easily abusable for like the 1% of people that know about it and have the capital to do it is nonsense. 

 

and please dont talk down to me like i have no idea what im talking about. furthermore, I do have the money and enough of an understanding of the market to make the money to abuse it, I just think its stupid. There is pretty much no downside to removing the cap for stackable items like that for  a LARGE majority of the players. 

U wanna sell tms and make a profit? do it like everyone else, undercut if u want, but a stack of 99 with literally no way to go around is just stupid.

Edited June 6, 2018 by an0n3

[Squirtle]

I am going to preface by saying I didn't read the novel that was written. But the premise has something to it. Stack-able items were not meant to get preferential treatment on undercutting the taxation system of the GTL. This is now being discussed thank you for your suggestion.