Slush Rush (& swift swim) on Beartic (why isn't it in game already?)

[greenspade]

Title says it all really, Beartic should have access to slush rush as a normal ability but currently he only is able to use snow cloak that raises his evasion.. and as far as I'm aware theres a pvp clause for evasion so doesn't this make this move either worthless by not working, or counter to pvp rules by raising evasion and thus equally as worthless?

Either way Beartic without slush rush OR hidden ability swift swim makes him alot less useful then he could be.

While we're on the subject: Why doesn't the hidden ability swift swim work? I mean we know swift swim is programmed into the game already, you'd think you could just apply it to that pokemon easily. And I mean other hidden abilities work, so is there some kind of procedure or list of rules a ability or hidden ability must pass before its programmed into the game? Cuz it seems random, some pokemon have it, others dont.

[Darkshade]

1 hour ago, greenspade said:

Well maybe I should start a new thread with the suggestion to release them before hand, cuz tbh I've been waiting years to properly use pokemon that are now obsolete due to meta change and releasing of the new areas.

You got more information on this? Hidden abilities are being held hostage as incentive to do dungeons? Like you can't use them till you unlock it on some dungeon? Or its going to make hidden abilities switchable with regular ones so they are not active same time?

No, as in Hidden Ability mons will only be catchable in dungeons.

There are various posts around the forums (usually posted by Kyu, however you will likely also find a few from me).

Yes, the meta is going to change - this is an MMO, things are going to change over time.

It's also not finished, and we need to prioritize the sustainability of our content.

 

I think where you're going wrong is looking at what will eventually be, rather than what is available right now.

This is no different to most other MMOs, where newer weapons or equipment are released further down the line in development, the only difference here is that you're aware that these things exist before they are released - which if anything is a bonus to you.

[Kizhaz]

From a pvp standpoint: No meta has ever been the same and PokeMMO is no different. Just because we don't have something that another meta did, it does not inherently make it broken. Instead we have our own meta with mechanics from multiple generations, only certain pokemon available with certain abilities. Metas are not meant to be stagnant or the same across games, they evolve as time goes by and ours is no different. Ultimately although some pokemon appear useless w/out their HA, many still find use with what they currently have access too.

 

From a developement standpoint: If everything is added all at once, then lack of future content will catch up and kill the game. With releasing some HA at a time in the form of dungeons there will be sustainability and a constant need to play. This also allows to control which HA are introduced, so as to not break PvE or the meta

[razimove]

2 hours ago, Darkshade said:

No, as in Hidden Ability mons will only be catchable in dungeons.

So is this a confirmation, that indeed we won't be able to change the HA of shinies and current comps, without having to waste a fortune again? Last I heard (probably less than 10 days ago, from Kyu, is that this was a proccess that was still in discussion.) Can you or @Kyu confirm please? 

 

 

2 hours ago, Darkshade said:

It's also not finished, and we need to prioritize the sustainability of our content.

Don't want to hijack the thread for other subjects, but before doing that, if you guys really want to go ahead with your planning, you should provide us, the guys who actually play the game, a way to farm cash, 100k/hour( and this is actually pretty hard to accomplish as average) isn't good nor healthy for us, the community in consideration to how expensive a single 5x31 is. 

____

Back to the thread, swift swim is working and so is sand rush, changing the meta is healthy to the game, and keeps the game 'alive'. Also, I'm pretty sure stuff like Snow Cloak is or should be working, as I believe sand veil is currently working in pvp(?).
 

[greenspade]

6 hours ago, Darkshade said:

No, as in Hidden Ability mons will only be catchable in dungeons.

This is by far the worst idea I've ever heard of on pokemmo.

Everybody has to rebreed and recatch all their comp pokes?

This is honestly ill-logical that you guys are holding what should already be in the game hostage as a "content release" under the guise its okay cuz other mmos restrict content.. Doesn't change the fact these are unfinished pokes and your plan sounds *extremely* lame and grindy on an already extremely grindy game that most people have a hard time generating money in. Not everybody has multi-millions to reinvest into all new pokes, again this is ill-logical and only favors the rich.. or is that the plan, to produce revenue by forcing people to remake their pokes thus causing people to buy into your "donation" system to fund it?

I honestly can't see any legitimate reason for doing this, its a giant fuck you to everybody whos been playing & paying into keeping this server up for years... like my player card is 2013 and I dont even got a full box of comp pokes due to how grindy and expensive breeding is, close but not there yet.. Have you actually asked anyone outside of your admin group about this? I'm willing to bet if asked "Do you want to remake your comp pokes that need hidden abilities, cuz you can only get hidden abilities pokes in dungeons?" none of your player base would want this, they would ask you why its been 5+ years without hidden abilities. I mean redspawn above just hightlighted a extremely good point, its hard to farm money and thus spending a million or more on a high end comp poke takes a LONG time to grind in order to buy... Telling us we all have to rebuy and remake everything seems again ill-logical when they should be there already to start with, I don't really like this pay to win direction and I can bet anyone you asked would see zero point either aside of a way to boost revenue collection for you by forcing a large amount of money to be spend and thus people buy in to avoid grinding...

I mean I've donated to you guys multiple times, used to do it monthly, but now I can't bring myself to do it when you guys seem to be off on your own path instead of in touch with what your player base wants. Just my 2 cents, but I guess you guys are gona just disregard this again since you already got your own planned path.

 

6 hours ago, Kizhaz said:

From a pvp standpoint: No meta has ever been the same and PokeMMO is no different. Just because we don't have something that another meta did, it does not inherently make it broken. Instead we have our own meta with mechanics from multiple generations, only certain pokemon available with certain abilities. Metas are not meant to be stagnant or the same across games, they evolve as time goes by and ours is no different. Ultimately although some pokemon appear useless w/out their HA, many still find use with what they currently have access too.

 

From a developement standpoint: If everything is added all at once, then lack of future content will catch up and kill the game. With releasing some HA at a time in the form of dungeons there will be sustainability and a constant need to play. This also allows to control which HA are introduced, so as to not break PvE or the meta

You think pokes like beartic stuck in NU are not broken in its current state without slush rush or swift swim? You think politoad stuck in NU is not a broken pokemon without drizzle when we can CLEARLY SEE that peli with drizzle brought him up to OU! I respectfully disagree with you massively, those are two broken pokemon that dont work "as intended on the gameboy and bulbapedia" <--- Heres the key your missing here. They are not the only cases either, lets look at Muk, he should poison people when contacting them with physical attacks, Muk feels incomplete without this! Nobody wants to play pokemon with a bunch of mutant half pokemon, they want the same thing thats on bulbapedia, same thing thats on the gameboy game they are currently playing, not some mutant version of it... I mean we gota download the roms, and this is advertised as a online gameboy experience, yet your clearly saying your not doing that due to some master plan you have... I think this is a step in the wrong direction, again people are here to have the gameboy experience, not your idea of a edited version... So whenever a hidden ability doesn't work, its a DISAPPOINTMENT to ANY player.. Plus asking them to remake their pokes PURELY to get access to a hidden ability is a giant screw you to any player cuz there is absolutely no reason for it or legitimate mechanic for it in the pokemon game. 

Whats the difference between pokemmo and other poke games where they made up their own pokemon graphics, pokemon hybreds, names and moves? I thought pokemmo was based upon the "gameboy pokemon roms" not made up whatever they felt like mons? I mean why not just release hybred pokes if you guys are just creating your own version of pokemon, why even follow pokemon stats? Why even follow pokemon movesets? Why not just give everybody stat reduced legendarys if you dont care about editing and changing the game away from what it should be? Why follow anything if this is just a pokemon "mmo" and its all just "content" for you to change at will? I mean I thought the point of this was to be as close to bulbapedia as possible, as close to the rom, the real game as possible.. but reading what you guys are saying, that doesn't seem to be the aim at all.. this is sad to read you try to justify this.

Nobody is suggesting to "release all content at once" again the suggestion was "finish content before moving onto the next part of content". This means you could have MORE time between big releases if you where actively competing what you already released, like the features and shops in hoenn that don't work for example, of all the hidden abilities, you could've released gen 1-2 hidden powers before hoenn even, by nova its like I feel you guys had no excuse... then you drop this on me, its not that your "going to get to it" but rather your holding it hostage in some master plan to get us to remake our pokes ... so you guys have more content cuz people gota remake and regrind? This is honestly ill logical and I really feel your going in the wrong direction with this and your overall outlook of your content release plan. Again nobody wants a half working game with a new area being released, again if your gona release something, finish what is released already, starting with hidden abilities everybody has been waiting for, for years. Should be doing this universally cuz if you ask your player base I can bet none of them want to trash pokes just cuz you think its fun or profiting to get us to trash our pokes so we can remake them in order to have access to what should've been in the game years ago.

Edited April 22, 2018 by greenspade

[Senile]

8 hours ago, greenspade said:

I mean again hidden abilities existed in generation one and two, so why are gen 1 and 2 pokemon unable to use their hidden abilities? Even moreso when that ability has been added to the game already, just not enabled on some pokes cuz its a hidden ability.

I mean its not hard to understand we don't need to have a dungeon release to use hidden abilities, they should already be working on pokes, not sure why you guys are confused about this, pokemon are incomplete and not working as intended for every pokemon that doesn't have its hidden ability, so I honestly see no reason why it hasn't been added yet or why we need to wait for a dungeon release for it when they should've already been in game before moving onto the next thing.. its like half the pokemon in the game are broken due to this, whats even the point in having a meta?

are we just going to ignore how hilariously wrong this is?

 

No, hidden abilities did not exist in gen 1 & 2. And I can see this with certainty, because, you know, no abilities existed in gen 1 and 2, abilities were added in gen 3. More importantly, actual hidden abilities weren't added until Gen 5, the generation PokeMMO is currently on. In gen 5, Hidden Abilities were not all released at once. In fact, similar to the plan for dungeons releasing them in PokeMMO, hidden abilities in gen 5 were essentially drip-fed to players over time. Some Hidden Abilities were straight up never released in gen 5, only being released later, or in some cases (Shadow Tag Chandelure), having their HA changed in gen 6+ after never being released in gen 5.

 

A lot of your arguments seem to hinge on an appeal to "Well, HA's were always a thing, so they should be in the game", but that's just obviously not true at all.

[greenspade]

4 hours ago, redspawn said:

 

 

Don't want to hijack the thread for other subjects, but before doing that, if you guys really want to go ahead with your planning, you should provide us, the guys who actually play the game, a way to farm cash, 100k/hour( and this is actually pretty hard to accomplish as average) isn't good nor healthy for us, the community in consideration to how expensive a single 5x31 is. 

____

Back to the thread, swift swim is working and so is sand rush, changing the meta is healthy to the game, and keeps the game 'alive'. Also, I'm pretty sure stuff like Snow Cloak is or should be working, as I believe sand veil is currently working in pvp(?).
 

Yeah your right a single 5x31 is super expensive, I'm not sure how they can justify asking us to remake all our pokes just to have access to hidden abilities.

As for swift swim, I have many swift swim pokemon, its just they are Main abilities.

Beartic has swift swim as a hidden ability and since HA are not in the game yet and slush rush is not in the game yet, he has no way of working as intended, its pretty disappointing really that I just made a 5x31 one, on paper, acording to bulbapedia he was a great poke for what I wanted to do, but he wont work cuz hes unfinished.

Same with Armaldo, it has swift swim as hidden ability too but since HA are not in the game yet, theres no point in me making him despite him being a good option for the team I'm working on... but again cuz hes broken, incomplete and not working as intended, I cant use him... Its like they are shoe-horning us into what pokemon we can use by restricting access to HA instead of letting us build our own teams out of all the pokemon options.

Edited April 22, 2018 by greenspade

[greenspade]

1 minute ago, Senile said:

Some Hidden Abilities were straight up never released in gen 5, only being released later, or in some cases (Shadow Tag Chandelure), having their HA changed in gen 6+ after never being released in gen 5.

Gen 5 has been out for a while now, I beat nova a long time ago now, you would think when they are already braking the meta by adding new pokes they would also finish what they added by adding hidden abilities that we can access instead of NCPS exclusively, I mean this proves they are in the game and its possible.... donno if you noticed the NCP's doing shit like sunny day into chlorophyll venu but its pretty annoying to see they have access to something we don't and even more annoying to be told that we're going to have to remake our pokes to get access to HA.

[Lightningvolt]

 

i really like how you ignore the good points given to you and just quote the things you think are good for your argument

1 hour ago, greenspade said:

This is honestly ill-logical that you guys are holding what should already be in the game hostage as a "content release" under the guise its okay cuz other mmos restrict content.. Doesn't change the fact these are unfinished pokes and your plan sounds *extremely* lame and grindy on an already extremely grindy game that most people have a hard time generating money in

its not being "held hostage" the update is  NOT FINISHED YET!!!

1 hour ago, greenspade said:

Not everybody has multi-millions to reinvest into all new pokes, again this is ill-logical and only favors the rich.. or is that the plan, to produce revenue by forcing people to remake their pokes thus causing people to buy into your "donation" system to fund it?

now you're just making shit up

 

1 hour ago, greenspade said:

they would ask you why its been 5+ years without hidden abilities

unova was just added recently and thats what is giving resources to to add hidden abilities to pokemmo

 

1 hour ago, greenspade said:

I mean redspawn above just hightlighted a extremely good point, its hard to farm money and thus spending a million or more on a high end comp poke takes a LONG time to grind in order to buy... Telling us we all have to rebuy and remake everything seems again ill-logical when they should be there already to start with, I don't really like this pay to win direction and I can bet anyone you asked would see zero point either aside of a way to boost revenue collection for you by forcing a large amount of money to be spend and thus people buy in to avoid grinding...

you are making shit up again

and you're seeing dungeons with a narrow mind , it has already been told to you above but i'll tell you again, its not just for pvp content it adds more content to pokemmo like like a better market,an endgame content and and maybe more things i dont know about that the staff has already planned

1 hour ago, greenspade said:

You think pokes like beartic stuck in NU are not broken in its current state without slush rush or swift swim? You think politoad stuck in NU is not a broken pokemon without drizzle when we can CLEARLY SEE that peli with drizzle brought him up to OU! I respectfully disagree with you massively, those are two broken pokemon that dont work "as intended on the gameboy and bulbapedia" <--- Heres the key your missing here. They are not the only cases either, lets look at Muk, he should poison people when contacting them with physical attacks, Muk feels incomplete without this! Nobody wants to play pokemon with a bunch of mutant half pokemon, they want the same thing thats on bulbapedia, same thing thats on the gameboy game they are currently playing, not some mutant version of it... I mean we gota download the roms, and this is advertised as a online gameboy experience, yet your clearly saying your not doing that due to some master plan you have... I think this is a step in the wrong direction, again people are here to have the gameboy experience, not your idea of a edited version... So whenever a hidden ability doesn't work, its a DISAPPOINTMENT to ANY player.. Plus asking them to remake their pokes PURELY to get access to a hidden ability is a giant screw you to any player cuz there is absolutely no reason for it or legitimate mechanic for it in the pokemon game. 

kizhaz gave you a nice reply about about how our meta is different from the other metas that other games have. pokemmo has its own meta because it uses different mechanics from the gen it uses and IT TAKES TIME IMPLEMENTING THINGS!!!

you're just ignoring the good points that everyone gives and reply to thing you think are a good argument    deja vu

 

1 hour ago, greenspade said:

Gen 5 has been out for a while now, I beat nova a long time ago now, you would think when they are already braking the meta by adding new pokes they would also finish what they added by adding hidden abilities that we can access instead of NCPS exclusively, I mean this proves they are in the game and its possible.... donno if you noticed the NCP's doing shit like sunny day into chlorophyll venu but its pretty annoying to see they have access to something we don't and even more annoying to be told that we're going to have to remake our pokes to get access to HA.

it has already been told to you many time already but i'll tell you again, unova is not finished yet, most of the items , abilities and some moves are not implemented yet

some hidden abilities were implemented just to give the players a more challenging pve 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kizhaz]

3 hours ago, greenspade said:

\You think pokes like beartic stuck in NU are not broken in its current state without slush rush or swift swim? You think politoad stuck in NU is not a broken pokemon without drizzle when we can CLEARLY SEE that peli with drizzle brought him up to OU! I respectfully disagree with you massively, those are two broken pokemon that dont work "as intended on the gameboy and bulbapedia" <--- Heres the key your missing here. They are not the only cases either, lets look at Muk, he should poison people when contacting them with physical attacks, Muk feels incomplete without this! Nobody wants to play pokemon with a bunch of mutant half pokemon, they want the same thing thats on bulbapedia, same thing thats on the gameboy game they are currently playing, not some mutant version of it... I mean we gota download the roms, and this is advertised as a online gameboy experience, yet your clearly saying your not doing that due to some master plan you have... I think this is a step in the wrong direction, again people are here to have the gameboy experience, not your idea of a edited version... So whenever a hidden ability doesn't work, its a DISAPPOINTMENT to ANY player.. Plus asking them to remake their pokes PURELY to get access to a hidden ability is a giant screw you to any player cuz there is absolutely no reason for it or legitimate mechanic for it in the pokemon game. 

No I don't think it's broken, I think it's where it deserves to be in our current meta. You seem to be completely forgetting that Beartic has another ability beside Swift Swim, is it as useful probably not but it's a working ability that is not broken. It seems to me you are calling it broken because it currently does not fill the role on your team that you need, however no Pokemon only plays one role, this is why they have multiple abilities and moves. For example Breloom is a Pokemon that can run Technician to hit hard and fast or have Toxic Heal to get behind subs and annoy,. A Pokemon can be a support, a cleric, a wall, a tank, a sweeper you name it, so just because it's currently not possible to run a Pokemon the way you want it does not inherently make it broken.

 

Politoed with Drizzle will definitely see more usage probably not as much as Pelipper as I fin it to be the superior rain setter but either way this does not make Politoed unusable in it's current state. It serves a niche in it's current tier with support moves such as encore or missnosis and Water Absorb is far from a bad ability. Not everything is meant to be ultimately powerful in OU, it's why we have tiers in the first place. You're whole mutant Pokemon argument makes no sense as it's still the same Pokemon with same stats and same moves (in fact some move pools that weren't available in the original games also paired with certain abilities) so no, nothing here is not as it should be.

 

3 hours ago, greenspade said:

Whats the difference between pokemmo and other poke games where they made up their own pokemon graphics, pokemon hybreds, names and moves? I thought pokemmo was based upon the "gameboy pokemon roms" not made up whatever they felt like mons? I mean why not just release hybred pokes if you guys are just creating your own version of pokemon, why even follow pokemon stats? Why even follow pokemon movesets? Why not just give everybody stat reduced legendarys if you dont care about editing and changing the game away from what it should be? Why follow anything if this is just a pokemon "mmo" and its all just "content" for you to change at will? I mean I thought the point of this was to be as close to bulbapedia as possible, as close to the rom, the real game as possible.. but reading what you guys are saying, that doesn't seem to be the aim at all.. this is sad to read you try to justify this.

This ties in to the last sentence in my previous paragraph, better yet I couldn't have said it any better than Senile put it. How did the original games handle HA? Did they release them all at once, did they let you just change any of your Pokemons abilities to obtain it? No they have always been behind some sort of method of obtaining them, most recently with SOS chain battles. You have to encounter a wild Pokemon and have it call a friend, ko it, have it call another, so on until a HA Pokemon appear,  how exactly is this different from what we're planning by having them obtainable through another means rather than just giving them? So again we're more like the original games than you let on.

 

Also I think this thread might be more suited to you

 

3 hours ago, greenspade said:

Nobody is suggesting to "release all content at once" again the suggestion was "finish content before moving onto the next part of content". This means you could have MORE time between big releases if you where actively competing what you already released, like the features and shops in hoenn that don't work for example, of all the hidden abilities, you could've released gen 1-2 hidden powers before hoenn even, by nova its like I feel you guys had no excuse... then you drop this on me, its not that your "going to get to it" but rather your holding it hostage in some master plan to get us to remake our pokes ... so you guys have more content cuz people gota remake and regrind? This is honestly ill logical and I really feel your going in the wrong direction with this and your overall outlook of your content release plan. Again nobody wants a half working game with a new area being released, again if your gona release something, finish what is released already, starting with hidden abilities everybody has been waiting for, for years. Should be doing this universally cuz if you ask your player base I can bet none of them want to trash pokes just cuz you think its fun or profiting to get us to trash our pokes so we can remake them in order to have access to what should've been in the game years ago.

Ok so you want the content to be finished, this is how we plan on finishing it. Not everything can be coded overnight which is why there's still a multitude of unworking abilities and items. Things in Hoenn that aren't working like the Battle Facilities I would argue aren't worth the time atm because let's face it does anyone really care that much about them to make them priority #1?

 

As for the whole rebreeding argument, from the sounds of it you only want these Pokemon for these abilities, so since these abilities are not available yet why would you bother breeding it now if you don't plan on using it? Just wait until the content is released and then you don't have to worry about rebreeding since it will be the first time. If you don't want something that's available now, don't make it, it's pretty simple. But it should be noted that not every Pokemon becomes obsolete with the introduction of HA, in fact I'd argue most don't.

 

3 hours ago, greenspade said:

Yeah your right a single 5x31 is super expensive, I'm not sure how they can justify asking us to remake all our pokes just to have access to hidden abilities.

As for swift swim, I have many swift swim pokemon, its just they are Main abilities.

Beartic has swift swim as a hidden ability and since HA are not in the game yet and slush rush is not in the game yet, he has no way of working as intended, its pretty disappointing really that I just made a 5x31 one, on paper, acording to bulbapedia he was a great poke for what I wanted to do, but he wont work cuz hes unfinished.

Same with Armaldo, it has swift swim as hidden ability too but since HA are not in the game yet, theres no point in me making him despite him being a good option for the team I'm working on... but again cuz hes broken, incomplete and not working as intended, I cant use him... Its like they are shoe-horning us into what pokemon we can use by restricting access to HA instead of letting us build our own teams out of all the pokemon options.

Intended was the wrong word to use, Beartic is still usable, probably the same amount even with it's HA. The same Pokemon counter it in OU since his coverage doesn't change. I probably sound like a broken record at this point, but no Pokemon only has 1 role to play.

[DarylDixon]

15 hours ago, notmudkip0 said:

slush rush doesnt exist, swift swim is hidden

slush rush is gen7 2nd ability

[notmudkip0]

5 hours ago, DarylDixon said:

slush rush is gen7 2nd ability

Yeah, it doesn't exist here