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Guess I'll just give me ideas here after long hard consideration of the whole concept of PSL. First of all, I'm happy to see all these new ideas to keep PSL as a working format. Currently the most popular idea what I've seen has been that there would be some kind of a "bounty system" to report coaching or any unethical PSL behavior and the violators will be punished more fiercely than before. Although I will agree that this will highly reduce coaching in terms of fear, my biggest concern is that no one in this community has enough authority to actually enforce all that disciplinary action. What I mean is that in order for the disciplinary action to actually work, the community has to side with the one making that decision or at least respect their decision. Like I said, the way the social dynamics work in PokeMMO I don't feel like anyone would have this kind of authority and community backing behind it. This is the biggest reason I do not believe for harsh punishments to actually work in this game, especially if they're given by the members of the community. The reason why the past hosts had the hosting very easy (me included) was that during our time the community was more inclined to just follow the PSL rules and ethics by their own will, rather than in fear of punishments. This is why it worked. But I'm sorry to say that I don't feel like this is the case anymore.

 

The current hot topic of PSL is "coaching" and the reason why it's such a problem that despite harsh punishments the community doesn't feel like it's such a great violation of PSL ethics, despite it obviously is. I don't care what are the punishments for coaching, if people don't feel like it's wrong then we have a problem. Therefor I have a very wild suggestion to keep PSL kind of draft type team format alive and I'll explain it below.

 

The main incentive for my idea is to ensure that there is no point of coaching. And the system is following:

 

- Each player signs up to a single tier for this tournament system. This player may only play this specific tier for the whole duration of the tournament. Every tier is only represented once in a weekly battle.

- There will be 8 teams, 8 managers. Each manager drafts one player for a specific tier.

- Each manager sets their wishes before the draft that for which tier they want to have priority. After that the draft order is made that every manager has a specific draft spot once in the draft. For example, a manager may have #3 draft pick for OU, #6 draft pick for UU, #1 draft pick for NU, #5 draft pick for Doubles, #8 draft pick for DPP OU, #7 draft pick for Little Cup and #2 draft pick for Gen 7 OU (or whatever). This means that every manager theoretically are in an equal position because they have equal amount of draft priority among different tiers.

- After this four rounds of snake draft is done to give teams four substitute players per team. A substitute player may be substitute for any tier but after substitution they cannot be substituted back for the drafted player of each tier.

- Get rid of credits and trading altogether.

 

This is the core idea of my draft idea. My biggest reason for this idea is that for each tier the best player will be playing so the incentive to coach is the lowest possible. Of course a #1 drafted OU player could be better than #8 drafted UU player and some coaching could happen but the standard would be that the player playing each tier is (hopefully) the best player in that team for that tier. Coaching would be discouraged but there would be no witch hunts.

 

Again, this is just my wild idea in order to keep PSL-like format alive. Feel free to shoot it down and if you don't like the idea I'd actually want you to be openly vocal about it if you don't like it. I want PSL to remain successful as much as the next guy but this is how I see it would work the best.

 

Btw, should this still be called PSL? Maybe not.

 

Edit: Whatever your decision for the format and rules will be, I'll donate to the new season of PSL but I want the official ruleset to be agreed about first and then officially posted. Whatever the format is, donations is one of the main things attracting players to sign up.

 

Edited by OrangeManiac
derp
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how's this gonna reduce coaching or get rid of it all together?

8x12 players is 96 drafted players total (quick maffs)

there is no way all 96 players are the best of the best for every tier, someone signing up for UU could still be better at doubles than the doubles player. therefore he would/could coach the doubles player and you'd still have the coaching problem.

Correct me if im wrong, but the only change im seeing is no trading and no credits, it hardly matters if a player is stuck in one tier if they can still coach the others

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9 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

Guess I'll just give me ideas here after long hard consideration of the whole concept of PSL. First of all, I'm happy to see all these new ideas to keep PSL as a working format. Currently the most popular idea what I've seen has been that there would be some kind of a "bounty system" to report coaching or any unethical PSL behavior and the violators will be punished more fiercely than before. Although I will agree that this will highly reduce coaching in terms of fear, my biggest concern is that no one in this community has enough authority to actually enforce all that disciplinary action. What I mean is that in order for the disciplinary action to actually work, the community has to side with the one making that decision or at least respect their decision. Like I said, the way the social dynamics work in PokeMMO I don't feel like anyone would have this kind of authority and community backing behind it. This is the biggest reason I do not believe for harsh punishments to actually work in this game, especially if they're given by the members of the community. The reason why the past hosts had the hosting very easy (me included) was that during our time the community was more inclined to just follow the PSL rules and ethics by their own will, rather than in fear of punishments. This is why it worked. But I'm sorry to say that I don't feel like this is the case anymore.

 

The current hot topic of PSL is "coaching" and the reason why it's such a problem that despite harsh punishments the community doesn't feel like it's such a great violation of PSL ethics, despite it obviously is. I don't care what are the punishments for coaching, if people don't feel like it's wrong then we have a problem. Therefor I have a very wild suggestion to keep PSL kind of draft type team format alive and I'll explain it below.

 

The main incentive for my idea is to ensure that there is no point of coaching. And the system is following:

 

- Each player signs up to a single tier for this tournament system. This player may only play this specific tier for the whole duration of the tournament. Every tier is only represented once in a weekly battle.

- There will be 8 teams, 8 managers. Each manager drafts one player for a specific tier.

- Each manager sets their wishes before the draft that for which tier they want to have priority. After that the draft order is made that every manager has a specific draft spot once in the draft. For example, a manager may have #3 draft pick for OU, #6 draft pick for UU, #1 draft pick for NU, #5 draft pick for Doubles, #8 draft pick for DPP OU, #7 draft pick for Little Cup and #2 draft pick for Gen 7 OU (or whatever). This means that every manager theoretically are in an equal position because they have equal amount of draft priority among different tiers.

- After this four rounds of snake draft is done to give teams four substitute players per team. A substitute player may be substitute for any tier but after substitution they cannot be substituted back for the drafted player of each tier.

- Get rid of credits and trading altogether.

 

This is the core idea of my draft idea. My biggest reason for this idea is that for each tier the best player will be playing so the incentive to coach is the lowest possible. Of course a #1 drafted OU player could be better than #8 drafted UU player and some coaching could happen but the standard would be that the player playing each tier is (hopefully) the best player in that team for that tier. Coaching would be discouraged but there would be no witch hunts.

 

Again, this is just my wild idea in order to keep PSL-like format alive. Feel free to shoot it down and if you don't like the idea I'd actually want you to be openly vocal about it if you don't like it. I want PSL to remain successful as much as the next guy but this is how I see it would work the best.

 

Btw, should this still be called PSL? Maybe not.

 

Edit: Whatever your decision for the format and rules will be, I'll donate to the new season of PSL but I want the official ruleset to be agreed about first and then officially posted. Whatever the format is, donations is one of the main things attracting players to sign up.

 

The draft order still has a possibility to be skewed unevenly. An extreme example would be if I had my list;

ou

uu

nu

doubles

lc

dpp

 

and the other managers had;

dpp

ou

uu

nu

doubles

lc

 

This would make me first pick in 5/6 tiers. As I said it's an extreme example but you can see how it can be scaled down and still be "unfair". Otherwise I'm not a fan of players only playing 1 tier. Changing the lineup based on your opponents team is one of the few jobs a manager does throughout the season, it bring tactics into the game knowing which tiers to stack or which to sack

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28 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

The draft order still has a possibility to be skewed unevenly. An extreme example would be if I had my list;

ou

uu

nu

doubles

lc

dpp

 

and the other managers had;

dpp

ou

uu

nu

doubles

lc

 

This would make me first pick in 5/6 tiers. As I said it's an extreme example but you can see how it can be scaled down and still be "unfair". Otherwise I'm not a fan of players only playing 1 tier. Changing the lineup based on your opponents team is one of the few jobs a manager does throughout the season, it bring tactics into the game knowing which tiers to stack or which to sack

The way I saw it was that every manager (despite of their "wishes") will have 1x 1st, 1x 2nd, 1x 3rd, 1x 4th, 1x 5th, 1x 6th, 1x 7th and 1x 8th pick in the draft. If two managers would priorities OU tier, for example, other manager would get 1st pick for their OU while the other manager gets 2nd pick. However, the manager with 2nd pick would still have 1st pick in another tier (and that would go to their second priority). This would be a little bit tricky to set up I can definitely see that the person setting up the draft would have a little bit tough time but as far as I saw it was that in theory everyone should be on an equal spot. (Obviously you can argue that #1 draft pick in OU is way more valuable than #1 draft pick in LC and you are probably right but hey, we just brainstorming here)

 

For the "playing 1 tier part", I can agree with that I suppose but it's kinda necessary part in this format idea that I had to try to make sure "the best 8 players are battling in each tier".

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14 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

Btw, should this still be called PSL? Maybe not.

it has to be called psl

13 hours ago, Vorred said:

Honestly, I just hope fred isn't in charge because none of the thread titles will have any capital letters and PSL will look like a joke

listen man, what you arent seeing here is the opportunity of a really good joke. psl with no capital letters would be amazing and how any mods would get triggered and go through and edit my post to capitalize them @Darkshade

it'd be hilarious

 

also bil hit that nail on the head. the one tier thing just makes life more difficult for the managers, it wont stop managers or players from coaching because most players play multiple tiers. 

 

you have to go with bounty system and harsh punishments to deincentivize coaching and the community just has to see this is the only way and get behind it, or the psl will die. coaching just breaks the psl and what it is and how it's meant to be. not much else to say.

Edited by fredrichnietze
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22 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Dead af. You'll quickly find fred that a lot of donations are motivated by ego, and players like to see their names posted. If you're even getting donations I'd suggest logging on. 

i logged in a few days ago and nothing. im thinking maybe people are of the opinion that coaching killed the psl and/or are waiting to see who will host before donating.

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