New Pokemon/Abilities/Moves is Fake Content

[Malorne]

It was at that moment xatu knew, he fucked up.

Edited March 5, 2018 by Malorne

[Gunthug]

This entire thread was just a gamble that maybe, if he got lucky, no one would actually read his original post and critique it. Now that senile called his bluff he's doing what he does best - playing the victim.

[Xatu]

19 minutes ago, Senile said:

Obviously, the best example of this is the RU shenanigans going on in-thread. It's been made pretty clear that RU would never have happened pre-update, and your conclusion that it is even less likely post-update is fundamentally wrong, since post-update is the only time it would ever have even been considered. However, for some reason, you feel compelled to argue with TC members about the fact that it would not have happened, just because...They're disproving your really wrong, baseless assumption?

You didnt even understand the point i was making with RU.  I said it COULD be a thing if the game grew in popularity instead of falling and if the demand is there, it could serve as additional PvP content.  Thats all i was saying, the the correlation between lack of mons and the need for more tier for more variation.

19 minutes ago, Senile said:

"Only adding mons" is hardly the sole "content patch". You talk about leaking down Hidden Abilities and Legendaries, but are we just ignoring the fact that they're supposed to be put in the Dungeons, content which is supposed to act as the endgame PvE?

If dungeons are anything like the winter one then yes, its fake content.  Its just the BF dressed up in another way

19 minutes ago, Senile said:

Oh, but because you put in ""true"" mmo features in that first paragraph, you can easily rebuke this! Legendary Dungeons aren't REAL MMO content, they're just extra grind! It's just a dressed up way to drip feed new pokemon, the rest of the stuff is just a way to do it!

Exactly, its a waste of fucking time.  If they really cared about balanced easy to get into PvP they wouldnt bar new abilities and mons behind complicated dungeons and instead make then accessible as a regular ability.

19 minutes ago, Senile said:

Your initial point of "Instead of adding interesting unique content, they're just slowly adding regular pokemon game stuff" is a reasonable one, but the more and more you elaborate and try to support your point, the more you dig yourself into the hole of, instead of trying to make a legitimate point, just trying to scream at devs to put priorities into the things YOU like and think is good for the game, with pretty much anything outside of your sphere of opinion being garbage content. When you go on to literally just list suggestions you've made as good ideas for stuff that would be "true" content after backhandedly suggesting that Dungeons are garbage non-content displays this pretty clearly.

Of course my opinions are biased, so is everyone elses.  I'm being held to ridiculous standards just because im questioning the status quo

19 minutes ago, Senile said:

whatever update you're talking about, the ENTIRE COMMUNITY did not hate it. 

The story line players continue to just quit after the storyline, rarely getting into PvP.  Both the 5th gen update, this newst update, and the dungeons update all directly affect and harm longstanding members (the ones we should care about most).  This is evidenced in overall dead-ness in the game and inability to even do PvP matchmaking.

19 minutes ago, Senile said:

In fact, the last update to make breeding comps easier WAS an attempt at finding a middleground to complaints about how obnoxious breeding comps was, especially after people had to breed a ton of new stuff with Unova.

Did more harm then good fissuring trust with core players even further

19 minutes ago, Senile said:

But, if you don't personally like it, they're not doing it? The devs have gotten better at listening to the community, and just because you & some people you know don't like an update, it doesn't mean the entire community doesn't.

Hardly ANYONE uses the forum.  I am very certain youd see more pissed off players, and those that speak other languages than english.  Not to mention the droves who quit without telling anyone.

19 minutes ago, Senile said:

You obviously don't have actual knowledge/experience within staff/TC/the dev team, so why are you talking as if you do?

I have enough "knowledge" to see members of the TC being toxic on the forums, and enough "knowledge" of seeing the devs consistently making decisions that hurt the community.

19 minutes ago, Senile said:

Well, I wasn't aware that you've been so involved in development that you've seen a dev boss everyone else around! Man, who is this guy? We should get rid of him immediately!

The point went right above your head.  The boss thing refers to having 1 person in charge who can ultimately veto any decision you throw at him if it interferes with personal bias, having no "boss" eliminates that bias by not having 1 guy pulling all the strings and making it a more cocreative process.

19 minutes ago, Senile said:

The last few sentences are just doomsaying garbage to try and make your idea/complaint/post seem more important than dire than it is. No need for it whatsoever.

Well then you have no hope for the future of this MMO.  People didnt know Rome fell till like 300 years after.  Change = Growth = Life this MMO is stagnated as fuck and you know it.

19 minutes ago, Senile said:

Also, re: everything about "just hire more devs/volunteers/janitors/cookie sellers/cotton candy represntatives!"; I don't know how many ways and times the devs have to say "no" to just adding random people to the dev team before you actually listen. It's clear they don't intend to freely just add in developers,

And they are limiting themselves in doing so, like i said the game can be safe using compartmentalized knowledge.  MMOs NEED many developers because they HAVE to be adding new shit.  They absolutely need more help.

 

[Gunthug]

Lol nevermind I changed my mind, responding did more harm than good 

[Malorne]

Just now, Gunthug said:

Lol nevermind I changed my mind, responding did more harm than good 

shhhh, shut up and enjoy the show, shit is about to get interesting.

[Tyrone]

I actually agree with everything Xatu has said.

Everyone disagreeing is just toxic.

Don't let the haters bring you down.

[Kite]

44 minutes ago, Xatu said:

bro you expect me to write everything in a perfect unbiased way.  these ideas are coming straight from the dome brah, its biased AF home boy.  It's just a vision that I have to greatly benefit the game, i dont see anybody else doing that.  My suggestions dont have to be unbiased or perfect and its hilarious you break down every word i said to reveal my """"bias"""" all of my counter points simply delve deeper into the ideas, or my feelings on a suject.  When you respond to me, youre responding to ME, the fact you think it should be any other way is hilarious and shows how unused you are to people ACTUALLY SHARING THEIR OPINIONS ON A MESSAGE BOARD

Guess what, facts don't care about your feelings.  And your thread is just that, your feelings. 

[Malorne]

FeelingsMMO

[Suneet]

7 minutes ago, Kite said:

Guess what, facts don't care about your feelings.  And your thread is just that, your feelings. 

Cool story bro, nice reasoning, leave pls

[Kite]

Just now, Suneet said:

Cool story bro, nice reasoning, leave pls

No, you leave kind sir!

[DoctorPBC]

34 minutes ago, Malorne said:

It was at moment xatu knew, he fucked up.

At moment

 

:thonking:

[DoubleJ]

Apparently the solution to fix a dying game is not to create more content for players to play through and experience, but rather just give everyone everything all at once to enjoy until they get bored with it. Sounds like a great recipe for a battle simulator and not an MMO. Oh and we should fire the guy who created the whole concept of the game for some reason too. Brilliant. 

[AlitoFernando]

tl dr ?

[suigin]

Just now, AlitoFernando said:

tl dr ?

"stop adding fake new content such as new pokemon, abilities and regions and add my suggestions"- Xatu

[Kite]

Just now, suigin said:

"stop adding fake new content such as new pokemon, abilities and regions and add my suggestions even though my suggestions are garbage"- Xatu

FTFY

[Xatu]

8 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Apparently the solution to fix a dying game is not to create more content for players to play through and experience, but rather just give everyone everything all at once to enjoy until they get bored with it. Sounds like a great recipe for a battle simulator and not an MMO. Oh and we should fire the guy who created the whole concept of the game for some reason too. Brilliant. 

And putting the carrots behind complicated boring unfun "dungeons" which even further skews the odds in the favor of old time members while n00bs have no chance to get both good stats, hidden ability, AND legenaries with dank basestats.... seems better to you?

Edited March 5, 2018 by Xatu

[notmudkip0]

4 minutes ago, Xatu said:

And putting the carrots behind complicated boring unfun "dungeons" which even further skews the odds in the favor of old time members while n00bs have no chance to get both good stats, hidden ability, AND legenaries with dank basestats.... seems better to you?

Would it be better if devs gave handouts to new players?

[DoubleJ]

1 minute ago, Xatu said:

And putting the carrots behind complicated boring unfun "dungeons" which even further skews the odds in the favor of old time members while n00bs have no chance to get both good stats, hidden ability, AND legenaries with dank basestats.... seems better to you?

It actually does, because the devs have said countless times that their idea of "end game content" is not competitive play. This was something that was born from PokeMMO and has fortunately found it's own niche and surviving despite multiple updates that have seemingly "set comp play back". 

 

And who are you to assume that dungeons won't be fun? Sure, they'll likely be stale for the competitive players of this game since they enjoy dueling with one another more, but as you can see holiday dungeons are actually extremely popular for casual players. Now, do casual players need to stick around for an infinite amount of time for this game to be considered successful? Certainly not. There just needs to be a decent influx of new players to replace those who simply stop playing.

 

Games get boring. MMO's though are fortunate to be able to create new content to add to their already highly detailed level of play to reinvigorate the player base and allow for renewed interest. You're essentially trying to take a shit on what makes an MMO great. 

[Kyu]

2 hours ago, Xatu said:

This game uses its ""open alpha"" moniker to its advantage.  The idea is this:  Keep the game open alpha and never fully complete it.  This became very apparent that when they devs reached like 95% completion of gen 3 (minus legends and some other features) they rushed to add gen 5 and a myriad of new mons, items, etc to the formula.  This makes it practically impossible for them to truly ""complete"" the game.  With interest already being stated that gen 6/7 will follow when the technology allows.

You're right. Every single MMO does this, and will always do it, because as long as you all keep paying for us to make it, we will. That's always been the contract between us and our community- Send more money, we'll send more stuff.

 

The "Alpha" moniker doesn't actually apply to this style of software development, because it's what's called a "rolling release." We could call the current state of the game "Epsilon" and it would mean the same thing. In fact, that's what we'll start doing. Congratulations everyone, we've made it to Eternal Epsilon.

 

2 hours ago, Xatu said:

Now to the topic of this thread:  This is fake content.

Well, you're objectively wrong, but ok.

 

2 hours ago, Xatu said:

It doesnt matter how many new mons you add.  This ONLY affects PvP and not even in a way thats noticeable or healthy to the overall progress of the game.

It literally doesn't. I don't care about RU, so I'm not going to quote the rest of this.

 

2 hours ago, Xatu said:

We can easily assume this new ""content"" will take a year or more to complete

We're not going to give out ETAs regardless of how many inflammatory topics you post.

 

2 hours ago, Xatu said:

with the HAs being hidden behind arbitrary restrictions and the legends behind similar restrictions, both to increse ""the grind"" apparently.  Even after weve hunted all these mons it changes nothing.  Its still just PvP and all ""the grind"" to get these ""new"" mons is completely pointless and literally designed to waste our time, and not even in a fun way.

>demands new ways to play
>complains about theoretical new PvE before it's even out yet

 

 

2 hours ago, Xatu said:

There are many MANY solutions to solving these issues, it just involves adding actually ""new"" and ""fun"" content.  New ways to play.  I have suggested many new gameplay features that would do nothing but benefit this game only to be ultimately ignored by the devs. 

I think that many of your proposals are copy/pasted from other games like OSRS without being well thought out, but sure, I'll bite for just this post. Let's go down the list and see my opinions on it:

 

>Open Wildnerness PvP

 

We actually already do this, with MewTwo / Rayquaza in the overworld. The only thing missing is that you don't lose your "real" gear when you lose. I think that most people will acknowledge that this type of PvP is extremely clunky at best, because we stole it from a different action-based combat game: Lineage 2, and its Cursed Swords.

 

Whether or not we'll look at it again depends on whether we can make the combat better. I honestly don't think that we can, which is why we never pursued it further; this game's combat is extremely slow and clunky in general.

 

>Open World elements

 

I don't know what this is supposed to mean, but I actually already want to do a lot of dynamic overworld quests, similar to how GW2 plays. Unfortunately we haven't had time to pursue it yet, but the general idea is there with Phenomena- Group events where your success depends on eachother.

 

>PvP staking

 

A winner-take-all PvP tournament where you buy-in is something we can theoretically do, but for normal matchmaking, I'm not sure it's good. I think that splitting our already tiny PvP playerbase into additional automated categories isn't something we should do for the moment, and that this isn't the appropriate time to pursue additional game modes which aren't designated "official events."

 

I think that the Tournament system in general needs a lot of work, specifically adding additional formats like Double Elimination. But since people complain consistently that there is no "hype" around PvP tournaments, we're pursuing the more social aspects first.

 

>Owning real estate in cities

 

We actually already do this with Secret Bases, but I guess what you're looking for is something more similar to Aion's towns, which from what I've played, nobody cared about, and only functioned as a money sink. I think that this is topical "content" at best, and it's extremely low on our priority list, but we've already talked about running custom Secret Base-like functionality in Castelia City. I think that we can all agree we have better things to do atm though.

 

>Player Classes/levels

 

I think that this is really, extremely pointless considering you all have badges which represent your character's progress. Grinding out chievos is dumb, but we'll probably do it anyway when we have more time to allocate to pointless features.

 

2 hours ago, Xatu said:

Here the true solution:  Hire new Devs.  As many as you can afford/acquire via volunteers.  This will help you release content patches faster while having multiple sources of input instead of having just 1/2 (ultimately biased) opinions running the show.

I think that you're trying to put me in a bind here intentionally, and I don't appreciate it. Making ridiculous remarks like this only serves to degrade your post.

 

2 hours ago, Xatu said:

Listen to the community:  If the entire community hates the update you did, you should assume you fucked up, and do things to fix it/find a middle ground.

I don't think that the "entire community" hates the genderless breeding or Hidden Power changes. I think that a lot of people are, rightfully, very salty about their Dittos and Genderless pokes now being worth less, and that their perfect Hidden Power mons are now subject to new rulesets which requires them to rebreed to hit perfect stats. But, I don't think those things were good for the game, and I think that for every person whose Dittos were decimated, 100 people with a story like this existed:

 

On 2/28/2018 at 2:39 AM, PlayzRockz said:

I think the update is pretty nice, but I have to say, that I started playing it last week.

I totaly understand the people arguing about genderless breeding, but serious, give the new players a chance.

 

On Monday I was looking trough this forum, found a breeding guide and was like WTF thats damn expensive (for new players). When I was back home I was searching the gtl for Dittos I would need and instantly stopped thinking about breeding an 3x31 because it was just to expensive for me.

 

I hope this will change now, givving the new players the opportunity to catch up to the old ones.

I think that you need to concede that, if you expect new people to play the game and for it to continue to grow, the game will need to be easier, because while the grind was bearable in Gen 3, this game is going to continue to get bigger with Sinnoh and Hidden Abilities. With that, we will need to continue adjusting our refinement mechanics to give newer players, and those with less time than they used to have, a fighting chance.

 

2 hours ago, Xatu said:

Fire toxic Staff, in any form:  If one of the devs is exerting a bias over the others, they gotta go.  There is no room for dictators here and we should strive to have all the devs being treated equally instead of one ""boss"" bossing around others.  Everyone should pitch in equally.  And this also goes for the TC and forum toxicity, if you see a member with any sort of connection to the staff, treating others poorly, bullying and harassing other players for their opinions (lets not forget thats the point of forums) they should be dealt with swiftly and like any other player.  Having a toxic person represent your staff will do nothing but put a bad taste in the mouth of players, giving them yet another reason to want nothing to do with your game.

If you are not going to cite any specific examples, then your claims are baseless.

 

2 hours ago, Xatu said:

With the game ultimately only being able to survive for so long, now its the turning point.  You either continue on this path of fake content and self destruction or you can add actually fun gameplay features, making headlines across the world and ultimately leading to a level of the player base like we saw in 2012.  The choice is yours.

I think that you don't actually know how many players we have, either now or in 2012, because we don't release numbers. Making ultimatums like this will only make everyone laugh at you, but then again, I thought this was

 

On 2/17/2017 at 11:57 PM, Xatu said:

#NotMyMMO

So I'm confused why you're making this post again.

[Malorne]

Just now, Kite said:

Wait is this not ShitPostMMO? x)

Nah, you gotta keep it relevant to the Original Post so it doesn't get locked and we can keep on having fun.

[DaftCoolio]

9 minutes ago, Xatu said:

And putting the carrots behind complicated boring unfun "dungeons" which even further skews the odds in the favor of old time members while n00bs have no chance to get both good stats, hidden ability, AND legenaries with dank basestats.... seems better to you?

how would "n00bs" have they no chance to obtain hidden abilitys and legends? 

[Xatu]

1 minute ago, DoubleJ said:

It actually does, because the devs have said countless times that their idea of "end game content" is not competitive play. This was something that was born from PokeMMO and has fortunately found it's own niche and surviving despite multiple updates that have seemingly "set comp play back". 

And its decisions like these that makes the majority of the playerbase not trust the devs, they completely disregard our opinions and do whatever the fuck they want, which is why i suggested a more democratic system.

1 minute ago, DoubleJ said:

nd who are you to assume that dungeons won't be fun? Sure, they'll likely be stale for the competitive players of this game since they enjoy dueling with one another more, but as you can see holiday dungeons are actually extremely popular for casual players.

Sure but in return they are offered vanities which are valued amongst all player groups.  When you switch out the rewards with something that is ONLY valuable to PvP players.... it becomes an unnessesary burden.  Having to pay a shitload to breed should be enough.

1 minute ago, DoubleJ said:

Now, do casual players need to stick around for an infinite amount of time for this game to be considered successful? Certainly not. There just needs to be a decent influx of new players to replace those who simply stop playing.

Then it should be fun enough to keep them here, if they ALL leave so soon sokething MUST be seriously wrong.

1 minute ago, DoubleJ said:

 

Games get boring. MMO's though are fortunate to be able to create new content to add to their already highly detailed level of play to reinvigorate the player base and allow for renewed interest.

Gr8... Lets add REAL content then

1 minute ago, DoubleJ said:

You're essentially trying to take a shit on what makes an MMO great. 

I'm essentially calling out what makes this game "Just Bullshit, No Games"

[Kite]

3 minutes ago, Malorne said:

Nah, you gotta keep it relevant to the Original Post so it doesn't get locked and we can keep on having fun.

RIP My recipe was removed 

#SadPokeMMO

[Malorne]

2 minutes ago, Kite said:

RIP My recipe was removed 

#SadPokeMMO

See, told u.

[DoubleJ]

3 minutes ago, Xatu said:

And its decisions like these that makes the majority of the playerbase not trust the devs, they completely disregard our opinions and do whatever the fuck they want, which is why i suggested a more democratic system.

 

Sure but in return they are offered vanities which are valued amongst all player groups.  When you switch out the rewards with something that is ONLY valuable to PvP players.... it becomes an unnessesary burden.  Having to pay a shitload to breed should be enough.

 

Then it should be fun enough to keep them here, if they ALL leave so soon sokething MUST be seriously wrong.

Gr8... Lets add REAL content then

 

I'm essentially calling out what makes this game "Just Bullshit, No Games"

1. Why should our opinions matter in the long run? They are running a business and the goal of said business is to make money, not cater to a very small playerbase.
2. The holiday dungeons offered more than just a single, simple vanity or two. They were a gateway to new shiny hunting grounds, easier experience gain, more ev training options, and even provided an opportunity to pick-up items. If the goal of new dungeons are to obtain a hidden ability or legendary, casual players will still do them. Legendaries are cool.
3. That's a huge assumption. 
4. Why do you still play?