Update Discussion thread 27/2/18

[MightyBoxer]

Quote

 

My main money making method 2-3 years ago was alt running, and they nerfed that hardcore. I could say I lost millions. Yet i don't mind since they added in a bunch of new things to do. 

Opportunities arise.

 

you haven't realy lost anything.You lost the ability to keep getting strong profit if you do an alt run now as it was in the past.As you said it was more profitable in the past.

 

Those people who were buying trading selling good dittos they lost a lot.If they kept those good dittos as a currency it hurt them hard as those pokemons worth was reduced very hard.

 

Its nice that the update made great improvement for pvp.As its now much more easy to get great stats genderless poke.

On the other hand it also sucks that the value of genderless poke was killed.Those pokemon were something rare to get.It was actually something to enjoy catching for good stats.

Since all other poke it did not realy matter what u catch it was simple enouth to make 5x31.But genderless it was realy great that a pokemon you catch in the wild needs good stats to breed a strong poke.

[Raederz]

1 hour ago, MightyBoxer said:

you haven't realy lost anything.You lost the ability to keep getting strong profit if you do an alt run now as it was in the past.As you said it was more profitable in the past.

 

Those people who were buying trading selling good dittos they lost a lot.If they kept those good dittos as a currency it hurt them hard as those pokemons worth was reduced very hard.

 

Its nice that the update made great improvement for pvp.As its now much more easy to get great stats genderless poke.

On the other hand it also sucks that the value of genderless poke was killed.Those pokemon were something rare to get.It was actually something to enjoy catching for good stats.

Since all other poke it did not realy matter what u catch it was simple enouth to make 5x31.But genderless it was realy great that a pokemon you catch in the wild needs good stats to breed a strong poke.

He may've lost milions. We dont sell stuff instantly, so the price change may have made possibly huge part of his work unrewarded. This is a lost, u work for a promised wage, and get way less.

 

Imo, this was an hard decision to take, but a good one from devs. Short term will make ppl cry, but in some months, game (pvp in this case) will be theorically more pleasant.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Raederz

[Quakkz]

Liking the update as well, yeah gotta rebreed some genderless but so what, thats natural Progress in an mmo. Every now and then an Expansion hits the game making your old stuff not top Tier anymore and you have to put in an effort to get better stuff once again

 

You always can use your old comps to build on to get the new better ones, which is exactly the same like when for example an update hits an mmo which puts the max Level higher so you have to go for new gear again...

[ThePrettyPetard]

7 minutes ago, Raederz said:

Imo, this was an hard decision to take, but a good one from devs. Short term will make ppl cry, but in some months, game (pvp in this case) will be theorically more pleasant.

yes a hard decision but they took it alone without much concern about the player that could be affected negatively but they just left them behind when they could have helped everyone (maybe not everyone but more people) if they only took some time to consider the side effect and ways to reduce them the complain thread wouldn't be has bad

[Raederz]

2 hours ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

yes a hard decision but they took it alone without much concern about the player that could be affected negatively but they just left them behind when they could have helped everyone (maybe not everyone but more people) if they only took some time to consider the side effect and ways to reduce them the complain thread wouldn't be has bad

So they couldve told some players and make others lose for em ?

Only way to make people lose less is by letting them know they had to sell... To other players ... That would complain for having spent a lot in something not worth it anymore.

In any case, it's bad for some players.

 

You seems to be in the bad side this time, and u're right, in some ways this isnt fair, but this is how a game has to evolve. This is why it is an "hard decision". Still it's good for the game in a long term vision.

[Bearminator]

40 minutes ago, Raederz said:

So they couldve told some players and make others lose for em ?

Only way to make people lose less is by letting them know they had to sell... To other players ... That would complain for having spent a lot in something not worth it anymore.

In any case, it's bad for some players.

Agree. If there would be announcement, people would try to sell those dittos to players unaware that there will be change. 

 

Ditto farm was big money for me as well. But to be honest, if that was someone's only way to obtain money, that's bad. Saying that update destroyed it a little is true, but what some people fail to see is that someone had to BUY those overprized dittos, and to gather money to buy them. And people were buying them because of lack of alternative way to make good comps. 

In a game that focus on battling each other or catching for pleasure, it wasn't really good option. 

[Kizhaz]

"It's too hard to make competitive genderless Pokemon"

"Breeding is too expensive"

"There is too big a barrier to competitive play"

 

3 complaints that have been uttered time and time again ever since breeding was first implemented 4-5 years ago and have continued to be mentioned to as little as a few months ago. This update has actually been a pretty successful attempt at rectifying the issues and yet all that is shown is people complaining still, ironically some are the same that were complaining about these issues. I now see more comments about how the devs didn't listen, despite this update being almost 100% catering to complained about issues with the change to breeding, the addition of a hotkey wailmer pail in Unova, lowering the pp up/max cost etc. They are not out to get you, they are not blind and not paying attention to their own game.

 

This update can be seen along past updates such as the lucky egg nerf, not the recent one but the one way back when it was the main source of currency. Shiny Pokemon would go for a dozen eggs because of no other currency but was ultimately changed with the addition of tradable Pokeyen making eggs almost redundant and worthless. Similarly look to when the Phys/Spec split was intorduced, it made a bunch of Pokemon unviable completely like the HP Bug Scizors or HP Fly Gyara, yet both of these updates I think most can agree were for the better, I sure as hell don't want to be trading 10 lucky eggs for a HP Flying Gyarados still. This update will similarly settle in the coming months and be seen as the update we've all been asking for.

 

 

21 hours ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

you remember what happen when they took all our wings for no reason with one of the update and gave us money under what they where valued has? well this time there is no refund and the lost is much more massive if they made something like giving a sort of refund to player that spent a lot of money on these genderless recently it would make this much less of a pain but no people just have to take it up their *** with no lube

That can't be compared to this update because we didn't go into your accounts and steal all your dittos, Hidden Power Fire Pokemon or Pokeyen. Everything you owned before the update you still own after the update, only thing that changed is the value of the items. But fluctuation in the market is to be expected in any scenario you put it in, nothing has a flat price on the GTL and never will, complaining about some things lowering or another rising is just pointless tbh

 

[OscarinM05]

On 27/2/2018 at 12:10 PM, AkileshX said:

siles? 

 

I can not enter my account because it asks for the access code and they say they send it to me in the mail and they do not.

 

[ThePrettyPetard]

2 hours ago, Kizhaz said:

That can't be compared to this update because we didn't go into your accounts and steal all your dittos, Hidden Power Fire Pokemon or Pokeyen. Everything you owned before the update you still own after the update, only thing that changed is the value of the items. But fluctuation in the market is to be expected in any scenario you put it in, nothing has a flat price on the GTL and never will, complaining about some things lowering or another rising is just pointless tbh

the comparaison isn't that far off becaus what was stolen wasn't the pokemon itself but rather value it's like buying somthing from the store only to see it get lowered in price the next week but this isn't for a special this is permanant many stores do refund in case like this becaus it anger people (it also doesn't really hurt the store much to do these refund) and make them want to return their product or just never come to that store again. yes you should always improve the store but not by stabing your loyal costumers this is just disrespectfull to do.

 

and for your point about price going up and down that don't mather yeah your right it doesn't matther WHEN it's caused by the market itself and not someone destroying it ireversably. the thing that is pointless would be to be angry at something like the price of rp that droped becaus the market isn't hopeless to go back up one day it miht never happen but there is hope unlike for those genderless comp that will never sell again at 10m.

[Gunthug]

8 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

the comparaison isn't that far off becaus what was stolen wasn't the pokemon itself but rather value it's like buying somthing from the store only to see it get lowered in price the next week but this isn't for a special this is permanant many stores do refund in case like this becaus it anger people (it also doesn't really hurt the store much to do these refund) and make them want to return their product or just never come to that store again. yes you should always improve the store but not by stabing your loyal costumers this is just disrespectfull to do.

 

and for your point about price going up and down that don't mather yeah your right it doesn't matther WHEN it's caused by the market itself and not someone destroying it ireversably. the thing that is pointless would be to be angry at something like the price of rp that droped becaus the market isn't hopeless to go back up one day it miht never happen but there is hope unlike for those genderless comp that will never sell again at 10m.

The fact you think it's ok for a genderless comp to sell for upwards of 10m is absolutely absurd. You've just sapped all of your credibility 

[Daedalus007]

@Kizhaz and @Bearminator

 

Surely both of you are able to see the 'loud whining' going on are just from the fractional vocal minority of the playerbase that heavily-invested in genderless breeding and have now experienced a sudden massive market fluctuation and demanding reparations.

 

Keep in mind that the overwhelming majority of the playerbase never even participates in these forums (for good reason).  They may read them but never sign up and/or post.

 

From what I've heard from many others, most of them are ok with the changes and making things more affordable for the non-rich.

Maybe an official announcement and releasing some actual numbers might put things into better perspective for people.

Edited March 1, 2018 by Daedalus007

[ThePrettyPetard]

19 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

The fact you think it's ok for a genderless comp to sell for upwards of 10m is absolutely absurd. You've just sapped all of your credibility 

if you don't mind i would like if you could quote me on when i said it was ok for a comp to sell at over 10m or even close to that becaus despite what you think i like the change of the genderless breeding i just strongly dislike the lack of concern from the devs for those that where affected negativly

[Bishav]

Anyone sad about the reduction in the value of their pokemon, please remember that pokemon is just the means to the end, please don't put the cart before the horse.

 

I agree that perfection should hold a certain degree of value in MMOs, but the entry grind to get certain desired pokemon was ridiculous. People didn't use certain pokemon solely because it was outside their reach in terms of pokeyen and time. I don't think it's healthy for certain group of viable pokemon to stay excluded from competitive scene for such reasons.

 

Now that they have improved the mechanics(which might need further improvement)to get the pokemon, we need more end game content- group boss encounters, more Co-op content and for the love of god, dungeons.

 

[Gunthug]

4 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

if you don't mind i would like if you could quote me on when i said it was ok for a comp to sell at over 10m or even close to that becaus despite what you think i like the change of the genderless breeding i just strongly dislike the lack of concern from the devs for those that where affected negativly

By claiming that the devs should show concern, and actually award reparations, for those whose genderless comps "will never sell for 10m again" is your implied support for those previous prices.

 

Imagine if a pharmaceutical company is selling incredibly important cancer pills for 100 million dollars a pill. Then the government steps in and says no, you can't do that, and threatens sanctions forcing the price down to a much more reasonable 150 bucks a pill or whatever. Would you claim the pharma companies who drove up prices in the first place should be repaid for fixing the broken economy? No, they have to play in a fair market now like everyone else 

[CHUCKunso]

3 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

if you don't mind i would like if you could quote me on when i said it was ok for a comp to sell at over 10m or even close to that becaus despite what you think i like the change of the genderless breeding i just strongly dislike the lack of concern from the devs for those that where affected negativly

Okay lets stay a little focused on the "comp for 10m"-part. To be fair here, I'm hit by those changes losing out not only on the possiblity to grind via dittos but also due to the lost value on my PZ, so don't expect objectivity here.

If we are honest those 10m comps weren't for the purpose of having a noticable edge in pvp. Sure it can matter (I'm a 5x31 OCD-guy myself, lol), yet that was not the point of spending those 10m on perfect comps, it was the collection-value. As much as ppl love shinies, some ppl love perfect neutral-comps, may it be OCD-induced or just because they were rare af. Taking this perspective the change did not really implement a healthier pvping concering those comps, but simple killed a collectionbusiness almost totally.

I, from now on, can just hope that they don't implement something to kill male-only breeding as well so my Tauros stays kinda unique.

[ThePrettyPetard]

1 minute ago, Gunthug said:

By claiming that the devs should show concern, and actually award reparations, for those whose genderless comps "will never sell for 10m again" is your implied support for those previous prices.

 

Imagine if a pharmaceutical company is selling incredibly important cancer pills for 100 million dollars a pill. Then the government steps in and says no, you can't do that, and threatens sanctions forcing the price down to a much more reasonable 150 bucks a pill or whatever. Would you claim the pharma companies who drove up prices in the first place should be repaid for fixing the broken economy? No, they have to play in a fair market now like everyone else 

well if i take your example it would rather need to be like this to reflect what happen here. the governement has a recepy for a pill that boost you (doesn't really mather how it boost for the example) but it was hard to make so pharmaceutical company cannot make a lot of them so the market decided the price that it would sell for based on supply and demand so the price got to 100 million but the goverment had a way to make them much more efficiantly and for much less and the government realeased them to do it without forcing them to tell people they would do it and they kept selling those pill in the mean time before the date it was forced to change to 150 bucks per pill. do you think it's fair for those that spent everything they had to buy/make one pill and can't even profit from being over many people?

 

if you need more explanation about what is what in this example since you seems to talk before thinking sometime. the pharmaceutical company represent the breeder the custumer is those who buy genderless pokemon and the governement is obviously the devs. with that in mind i hope you can understand what i was trying to explain.

[Gunthug]

4 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

well if i take your example it would rather need to be like this to reflect what happen here. the governement has a recepy for a pill that boost you (doesn't really mather how it boost for the example) but it was hard to make so pharmaceutical company cannot make a lot of them so the market decided the price that it would sell for based on supply and demand so the price got to 100 million but the goverment had a way to make them much more efficiantly and for much less and the government realeased them to do it without forcing them to tell people they would do it and they kept selling those pill in the mean time before the date it was forced to change to 150 bucks per pill. do you think it's fair for those that spent everything they had to buy/make one pill and can't even profit from being over many people?

 

if you need more explanation about what is what in this example since you seems to talk before thinking sometime. the pharmaceutical company represent the breeder the custumer is those who buy genderless pokemon and the governement is obviously the devs. with that in mind i hope you can understand what i was trying to explain.

Nah I cannot understand what you're trying to explain, since you can't spell and type in broken English with no punctuation. I assume you were trying to invalidate my analogy by pointing out the minute differences, but alas, I'm sure we both know that analogies can ring true without being two identical scenarios 

[ThePrettyPetard]

1 minute ago, Gunthug said:

Nah I cannot understand what you're trying to explain, since you can't spell and type in broken English with no punctuation. I assume you were trying to invalidate my analogy by pointing out the minute differences, but alas, I'm sure we both know that analogies can ring true without being two identical scenarios 

well sorry about my broken english it isn't my native language after all but the issue with your analogies was that you point on the breeder/trader to be the issue wich isn't the real issue it just seems like you have a personal issue with them and like that they suffer from it. 

[Gunthug]

1 minute ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

well sorry about my broken english it isn't my native language after all but the issue with your analogies was that you point on the breeder/trader to be the issue wich isn't the real issue it just seems like you have a personal issue with them and like that they suffer from it. 

I like that competitive players have easier access to the tools they need to succeed at a high level. And whether the breeders/traders created the high prices or simply took enormous advantage of them, I'm very glad that's over with now. I don't know why you're so obsessed with claiming I have a personal issue - I want what's best for the game and whining that devs need to slam on the brakes and pay out to all these people with no foresight isn't helping.

[razimove]

2 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

I want what's best for the game and whining that devs need to slam on the brakes and pay out to all these people with no foresight isn't helping.

Agree with you, just which they had a system like OSRS in which players have the word on stuff, 70% of votes is the requirement for a update to go through, etc. Idk I just want them to voice themselves a bit more before literally fucking every genderless breeder. I agree with you, this helps massively the competitive scene.

[Squirtle]

6 hours ago, Bishav said:

Anyone sad about the reduction in the value of their pokemon, please remember that pokemon is just the means to the end, please don't put the cart before the horse.

 

I agree that perfection should hold a certain degree of value in MMOs, but the entry grind to get certain desired pokemon was ridiculous. People didn't use certain pokemon solely because it was outside their reach in terms of pokeyen and time. I don't think it's healthy for certain group of viable pokemon to stay excluded from competitive scene for such reasons.

 

Now that they have improved the mechanics(which might need further improvement)to get the pokemon, we need more end game content- group boss encounters, more Co-op content and for the love of god, dungeons.

 

We hear you on the need to continue to build upon end game content we have definitely not forgotten about that. I can't speak to how quickly or what exactly we will be working on next but that is definitely a direction we are going.

[ThePrettyPetard]

9 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

I like that competitive players have easier access to the tools they need to succeed at a high level. And whether the breeders/traders created the high prices or simply took enormous advantage of them, I'm very glad that's over with now. I don't know why you're so obsessed with claiming I have a personal issue - I want what's best for the game and whining that devs need to slam on the brakes and pay out to all these people with no foresight isn't helping.

well now i can see why we don't think the same on this you consider only the game and the future while making your argument when i on the other hand consider both the game and the comunity without limiting to only the future like you do. you show a lack of concern about the way used to achive something like the devs did for this update (who knows you might have been a part of this)

 

edit: atually about the devs needing to put the brake and pay out there is no such need has the staff team could handle such busiess has it something hard to gage on the price of the refund for it to be automated

Edited March 1, 2018 by ThePrettyPetard

[pachima]

The amount of parallel arguments that make no sense whatsoever to the point they are used to counter is simply marvellous.

[ThePrettyPetard]

6 minutes ago, pachima said:

The amount of parallel arguments that make no sense whatsoever to the point they are used to counter is simply marvellous.

if i wasn't one of those making argument i would be next to you enjoying the show

[Gunthug]

7 minutes ago, ThePrettyPetard said:

well now i can see why we don't think the same on this you consider only the game and the future while making your argument when i on the other hand consider both the game and the comunity without limiting to only the future like you do. you show a lack of concern about the way used to achive something like the devs did for this update (who knows you might have been a part of this)

The entire reason I support this update is that the competitive community benefits right now - not just in the future. Again, I have no sympathy for people who wasted their time breeding 6x0 genderless or put all their money in dittos for some stuoid reason. The competitive players drive thus community and we've struggled getting more to join the ranks for years 

 

7 minutes ago, pachima said:

The amount of parallel arguments that make no sense whatsoever to the point they are used to counter is simply marvellous.

Feel free to quote me when you're subtweeting. Just spare us another wall of illogical text about why this is the last straw and you're quitting now