Max Obedience is troubling (solved)

[MichaelInvisable457]

I started playing Pokemmo in 2013. From then to now I have picked up the game and played it here and there. I recently(as in today) decided i'd check the game out again. Problems arise when my team starts auto fainting themselves because they are ignoring orders. After some research I can see that my obedience Lv is 50 and the average Lv of my team is 60. This is troubling because I now have to start from scratch and build up another team. This whole obedience lv makes sense, you don't want users trading or buying an OP Pokemon that trivializes the game. However in the official games this Obedience Lv rule doesn't apply to Pokemon that you own (i.e OT:your trainer name here) This doesn't reign true in Pokemmo however as my starter Blastoise still auto-faints itself upon entering battle. My point is the obedience Lv rule should apply only to Pokemon that don't match your trainer OT/ID. The reason GameFreak implemented this rule in the first place was so the player couldn't trade another team over from another game for a instant win, under this philosophy however If a player builds up their own Pokemon they shouldn't be penalized as they still put effort and time into grinding a Pokemon to a higher Lv. In this scenario the player didn't gain an instant win, they just played the game safe and over leveled their Pokemon. If this obedience Lv rule existed in a GameFreak Pokemon game It would be flawed design because many players use one pokemon to beat the game. Therefore in Pokemmo if a new player wanted to play the game with one pokemon they would hit a wall in which their powerhouse they have been relying on the whole game is suddenly meaningless. Not to mention the fact that in the middle of Kanto the player can switch to Hoenn which they can use to gain more experience for said powerhouse without raising their Max obedience Lv. This can trap the player and force them to build up a new Pokemon from scratch, this is frustrating and isolating. This is flawed design. I inquire the reader to leave a comment(In case I'm missing something or if this topic has already been solved)

Edited January 27, 2018 by MichaelInvisable457

[Akshit]

Yes many people had problem with this ideology at first, but then soon realized maybe instead of relying on the old method of just sweeping through with one over leveled pokemon, maybe make a proper mixed team and play through it with ease then. Also, non gift OT pokemons can still be traded and you can have a friend who has access to higher EXP areas or horde just level something for you to make it reach the level cap, and since no NPC will ever be higher than the level cap which is set for you, its still pretty easy to move forward with story.

 

The design is not flawed, it just requires the trainer to stop being lazy and reliant on only one pokemon but rather work for a better team. Maybe even breed a natured 1x31 / 2x31 just for storyline purposes.Also the extra XP is stored so a pokemon is never above the set max obedience level if being leveled in the same region. You are expected to run a different team for different region so that you explore and catch more pokemon interacting with the game and completing the pokedex as you go forward in your journey.

 

16 minutes ago, MichaelInvisable457 said:

if a new player wanted to play the game with one pokemon

Still possible, just much more challenging.  And you can easily sweep through using the correct 1 pokemon, for example, an elemental starmie.

[MichaelInvisable457]

1 hour ago, Akshit said:

es many people had problem with this ideology at first, but then soon realized maybe instead of relying on the old method of just sweeping through with one over leveled pokemon, maybe make a proper mixed team and play through it with ease then.

This is all fine and dandy. But its a learning curve that still isolates new players and/or casuals from playing the game. I'd also argue that sweeping with one 'Mon isn't a "Method" but rather a play style; some people really enjoy making a powerhouse and obliterating everything in their path. It may seem silly to you but many gamers play Pokemon that way and by implementing this Obedience rule you are still isolating that play style.

 

1 hour ago, Akshit said:

The design is not flawed, it just requires the trainer to stop being lazy and reliant on only one pokemon but rather work for a better team.

There is a big difference between being lazy and loss of motivation due to the isolating nature of this update. For example my team that I have used for 5 years is suddenly not usable. In this situation I could train up a new team to continue the game but the fact that my other Pokemon are just locked away is heartbreaking. Same holds true if for example a new player was implementing the 1 'mon play style and hit a wall. Most players wouldn't "stop being lazy and go make a new team" they'd simply get confused,frustrated and abandon the game all together.

 

1 hour ago, Akshit said:

You are expected to run a different team for different region so that you explore and catch more pokemon interacting with the game and completing the pokedex as you go forward in your journey.

I'm pretty sure most people do in fact do this pre and post update however I guarantee that there are many players who pre update ran through Hoenn with their Kanto team. Sure post update we can see that the player was in fact expected to use a different team for a different region, but pre update this rule didn't exist therefore If a player who used their Kanto team played 75% through Hoenn and then stopped playing post update they have to face a penalty that was not apparent to them a year ago. Once again you could argue they can simply make a new team from scratch, however the fact that they need to waste time to make up a new team even though they have a perfectly fine team that is blocked for a reason that they could never have predicted simply put is extremely isolating to your playerbase.

 

Besides all these issues could be mitigated if a Pokemon with the trainers OT/ID would obey them no matter what Lv they are. Meanwhile the Obedience Lv rule can be implemented in a different way that restricts Kanto Pokemon when the player changes regions to Hoenn or Unova. Only for that restriction to be lifted once the player has beaten the elite four in that particular region. I'm no game programmer but I'm sure there is a way the dev team could make that happen.

Edited January 27, 2018 by MichaelInvisable457
Didn't include a closing thought that tied back to my original point.

[Eldaust]

4 hours ago, MichaelInvisable457 said:

*Crying about game difficult. Crying about Veteran players defeating the story mode years before Kanto/Hoenn came out.*

Can't fix the second issue but why would they? It's sort of a reward for adopting the game earlier then later I suppose. Granted, all these features that makes breeding incredibly easy, having access to all the moves/tutors and Pokemon now then suppose back then when Ice Beam wasn't even implemented yet is not a big deal at all right? Anything with 3x31 IV's was consider to be ridiculous back then since breeding was non-existented to...well barely functional really. When these new systems came out like breeding or buyable TM's (versus having to actually farm them), did they made older players mad? Yeah but it's really minor compared to the whole scope of things. Now TM's are worth almost worth to nothing now these days. We've been screwed out of money many times with our update with little to no choice and we have to accept them for the betterment of the future. This is the sort of thing you just have to accept while playing a MMORPG.

Really all I'm reading here is "Wah I can't solo the game with 1 or 2 Pokemon within a few hours anymore" then composed to actually playing the game as how it was intended to be played. The fact you actually have to build a team, take advantage of your stats and typings n' plan your resolve with the Elite 4? That is Pokemon as intended to be...and if you can't manage to make a quick team and plan things out for a simple E4 run, then good luck with PvP. The story in a way helps players understand the mechanics much more and help players against veterans in learning how to team build and outplay your opponents/AI. Casuals will have more play time trying to figure out the game more and people who want to chose to get good, it'll help them improve. It's honestly a win-win.

Plus as mention before, if you really are struggling, there are still easy ways to super cheese the game thanks to trading/GLT. Any friend can help you out too.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Eldaust
5 AM grammar edits and unfinished senetences

[Akshit]

1 hour ago, MichaelInvisable457 said:

This is all fine and dandy. But its a learning curve that still isolates new players and/or casuals from playing the game. I'd also argue that sweeping with one 'Mon isn't a "Method" but rather a play style; some people really enjoy making a powerhouse and obliterating everything in their path. It may seem silly to you but many gamers play Pokemon that way and by implementing this Obedience rule you are still isolating that play style.

Not really, I swept through almost everything with my Unova 6x15 starter with ease. So that style is not isolated at all.

 

1 hour ago, MichaelInvisable457 said:

There is a big difference between being lazy and loss of motivation due to the isolating nature of this update. For example my team that I have used for 5 years is suddenly not usable. In this situation I could train up a new team to continue the game but the fact that my other Pokemon are just locked away is heartbreaking. Same holds true if for example a new player was implementing the 1 'mon play style and hit a wall. Most players wouldn't "stop being lazy and go make a new team" they'd simply get confused,frustrated and abandon the game all together.

It is usable, just get the enough badges / defeat E4.

And new player do implement the 1 mon play style and make it quite far away, cause they do not face the over level cap problem you specifically are facing due to being absent from the game so long. Sure some leave, but many stay And ingame players have increased rather than decrease.

 

1 hour ago, MichaelInvisable457 said:

I'm pretty sure most people do in fact do this pre and post update however I guarantee that there are many players who pre update ran through Hoenn with their Kanto team. Sure post update we can see that the player was in fact expected to use a different team for a different region, but pre update this rule didn't exist therefore If a player who used their Kanto team played 75% through Hoenn and then stopped playing post update they have to face a penalty that was not apparent to them a year ago. Once again you could argue they can simply make a new team from scratch, however the fact that they need to waste time to make up a new team even though they have a perfectly fine team that is blocked for a reason that they could never have predicted simply put is extremely isolating to your playerbase.

You can legit just catch high level poke to meet your level cap and have a team ready within minutes if you have indeed completed another region.

I myself had Hoenn half completed before I stopped playing, but I came back... just caught a bunch of random high levels and cleaned whatever part of story was left.

What you call a 'waste of time' is actually the time you just spend playing pokemon completing the storyline. You took a long enough gap of days / weeks / months / years .... an extra half an hour investment to make you proceed in story ain't much if you ask me.

 

1 hour ago, MichaelInvisable457 said:

Besides all these issues could be mitigated if a Pokemon with the trainers OT/ID would obey them no matter what Lv they are.

No matter what level they are ? Let me just trade my OT to my friend or anyone who can just kill Piloswine Hordes in Giant Chasm getting it 3k + XP per kill or get high XP yield from elsewhere further in story and give it back to me at lvl 50 or more... hell even make it 100 so I can easily swipe through everything. lol I'll make alts and just high level the OT caught on them and farm all the story items. This suggestion would be abused pretty badly, and given this is a mmo where those items form a part of economy, it would affect things in a very negative way. For example, items like Exp. Share, etc will lose their monetary value.

 

1 hour ago, MichaelInvisable457 said:

Meanwhile the Obedience Lv rule can be implemented in a different way that restricts Kanto Pokemon when the player changes regions to Hoenn or Unova. Only for that restriction to be lifted once the player has beaten the elite four in that particular region. I'm no game programmer but I'm sure there is a way the dev team could make that happen.

Many people like mixing Pokemon from different region. You can go through Unova starting with a Bagon if you want. Carry a Butterfree in Hoenn, do whatever you want. You're basically asking the DEVs to restrict their freedom and pleasure of using the pokemon species of their choice. This is even a worse suggestion than the one you made in the original post.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Akshit

[MichaelInvisable457]

11 minutes ago, Akshit said:

You can legit just catch high level poke to meet your level cap and have a team ready within minutes if you have indeed completed another region.

I myself had Hoenn half completed before I stopped playing, but I came back... just caught a bunch of random high levels and cleaned whatever part of story was left.

What you call a 'waste of time' is actually the time you just spend playing pokemon completing the storyline. Hell you took a long enough gap of days / weeks / months / years .... an extra half an hour investment to make you proceed in story ain't much if you ask me.

 

This is a good solution.

14 minutes ago, Akshit said:

And new player do implement the 1 mon play style and make it quite far away, cause they do not face the over level cap problem you specifically are facing due to being absent from the game so long. Sure some leave, but many stay And ingame players have increased rather than decrease.

That's my overall point, being absent is rough when the game is constantly changing and I personally have a problem with that. I'm not sure I'll continue playing Pokemmo. But If i'm ever motivated to play i'll try and implement your strategy from before.

 

18 minutes ago, Akshit said:

No matter what level they are ? Let me just trade my OT to my friend or anyone who can just kill Piloswine Hordes in Giant Chasm getting it 3k + XP per kill or get high XP yield from elsewhere further in story and give it back to me at lvl 50 or more... hell even make it 100 so I can easily swipe through everything. lol I'll make alts and just high level the OT caught on them and farm all the story items. This suggestion would be abused pretty badly, and given this is a mmo where those items form a part of economy, it would affect things in a very negative way. For example, items like Exp. Share, etc will lose their monetary value.

Being absent and all around not to involved in Pokemmo explains my oversight and i'm glad you make this point for players like me who may be facing this rough return.

 

Overall thanks for the reply, it cleared many things up.

[Akshit]

7 minutes ago, MichaelInvisable457 said:

Overall thanks for the reply, it cleared many things up.

Happy to help man. I understand the frustration you're going through, when I came back I just wanted to kill everything using my Lv. 100s... but I could not do that.

It made me angry too, for some time....Though I used the opportunity of having access to different regions to pimp out my pokemons for the region I had to complete.

Here's an example what I did to my starter from Unova:

 

Whisper me ingame if you need help with anything. All the best for your journey.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Akshit

[MichaelInvisable457]

19 minutes ago, Akshit said:

Whisper me ingame if you need help with anything. All the best for your journey.

Thanks, seeing friendly members in any community is encouraging.

[Bearminator]

You know,  making starter powerhouse and sweeping region could give you region cleaned in literally just few hours. It was issue. 

 

We understand that this change made effects for returning players,  but in general this change was made to stop players from sweeping region. Once all players will make their runs we will have challenging storyline for all New players.

 

While we understand some people like to Play this style, but its not good for mmo - and its mmo we're playing

[Bearminator]

We're sorry that it made your adventure uncomfortable tho. 

[MichaelInvisable457]

7 hours ago, Bearminator said:

You know,  making starter powerhouse and sweeping region could give you region cleaned in literally just few hours. It was issue. 

 

We understand that this change made effects for returning players,  but in general this change was made to stop players from sweeping region. Once all players will make their runs we will have challenging storyline for all New players.

 

While we understand some people like to Play this style, but its not good for mmo - and its mmo we're playing

 

Thanks for the input, as an returning player I can honestly see why this is considered an issue despite my initial frustration. I thoroughly respect the change and the overall desire to balance the game.

7 hours ago, Bearminator said:

We're sorry that it made your adventure uncomfortable tho.

Thank you, as you can tell returning to Pokemmo with this change is uncomfortable at first. (Otherwise I wouldn't have made this topic.) But after receiving advice from other members and players I have a strategy that can help me quickly get back into the action.

[Bearminator]

1 minute ago, MichaelInvisable457 said:

 

Thanks for the input, as an returning player I can honestly see why this is considered an issue despite my initial frustration. I thoroughly respect the change and the overall desire to balance the game.

Thank you, as you can tell returning to Pokemmo with this change is uncomfortable at first. (Otherwise I wouldn't have made this topic.) But after receiving advice from other members and players I have a strategy that can help me quickly get back into the action.

Oh that's fantastic. I hope you will have a good time around then! :)

[Toupi]

What just happened?

Someone complained about new obedience system but he read arguments presented by the others behind that change and he agrees with them?!

What the hell guys, it's not how forums works! More emotions, less reason!

[MichaelInvisable457]

19 hours ago, Toupi said:

What just happened?

Someone complained about new obedience system but he read arguments presented by the others behind that change and he agrees with them?!

What the hell guys, it's not how forums works! More emotions, less reason!

I posted this topic with the intention of finding a solution. I didn't post the topic to complain(although I can't not admit i was a bit frustrated since I didn't understand the inclusion of the obedience rule at the time, all the more reason to post it then) and seeing as i'm clearly not versed in this topic being my arrogance toward certain game mechanics that separate Pokemmo from an official Pokemon game(like global market) I simply brought up a different perspective that challenges ideas with the intention of hearing out other perspectives in the process i.e

 

On 1/27/2018 at 12:30 AM, MichaelInvisable457 said:

I inquire the reader to leave a comment(In case I'm missing something or if this topic has already been solved)

I wanted a reader to challenge my idea. 

 

I agree with you, forums aren't a place you see a civil argument usually. Its probably because most people can't shallow their pride and face the music. I don't mean to put myself on a pedestal but If all i did was yell, scream, complain and accuse while presenting this perspective than i wouldn't have found any solution or resolve and that wouldn't help anyone. That's just the way i see it.