Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
Munya

LC Discussion Request Thread

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

How does Munchlax get +6 sdef?

oh right, it stops at +3, forgot about that.

Share this post


Link to post
4 hours ago, gbwead said:

Apparently, this is too difficult for you, so I'll do all the work for you:


Munchlax

  Hide contents

+6 252 SpA Misdreavus Hidden Power Fighting vs. +6 0 HP / 236+ SpD Munchlax: 10-12 (33.3 - 40%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
If you pressure the Misdreavus correctly, you should always be able to ensure the berry juice gets activated.


Porygon

  Reveal hidden contents

 

+1 252 SpA Misdreavus Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Porygon: 10-12 (38.4 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

0- Atk Porygon Foul Play vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 8-10 (36.3 - 45.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Porygon has recover, so there is no possible scenario where porygon doesn't win.

 

 

Lileep

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Against Bold Misdreavus
108 Atk Lileep Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 9-12 (36 - 48%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
+1 0 SpA Misdreavus Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Eviolite Lileep: 8-10 (30.7 - 38.4%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO

 

Lileep has recover, so win.

 

Against Timid Misdreavus

+1 252 SpA Misdreavus Hidden Power Fighting vs. 252 HP / 176+ SpD Eviolite Lileep: 10-12 (38.4 - 46.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

108 Atk Lileep Bullet Seed (3 hits) vs. 0 HP / 0+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 9-12 (40.9 - 54.5%) -- approx. 0.4% chance to 2HKO

 

Looks also like a win to me.

 

 

Ponyta

  Reveal hidden contents

+1 252 SpA Misdreavus Shadow Ball vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Eviolite Ponyta: 9-12 (37.5 - 50%) -- 0.4% chance to 2HKO
gg with morning sun and flame charge

 

They all win 1v1. I would have to test lax a little bit more to be sure, but I'm confident it can handle it. Same with Lileep against wow hex misdreavus, but there should still be a way. The generic Misdreavus sets are very easy to handle if you are prepared for it though.

1. Stockpile only goes up to +3. This is just a basic mechanic of the game you should be aware of as a member of the Tier Council.

2. misdre cms on the pory switch and then calm minds once more and hpfighting is a 2hko which means recover is worthless, this again, is a basic pokemon concept. same exact scenario applies to lileep

3. Max spdef ponyta isnt even a set. you need max speed to take adventage of its 19 speed tier otherwise you're just bad.

Edited by FNTCZ

Share this post


Link to post
52 minutes ago, FNTCZ said:

2. misdre cms on the pory switch and then calm minds once more and hpfighting is a 2hko which means recover is worthless, this again, is a basic pokemon concept. same exact scenario applies to lileep

3. Max spdef ponyta isnt even a set. you need max speed to take adventage of its 19 speed tier otherwise you're just bad.

alright, bring a that misdreavus and come vermillion ch4, so we can test this set against porygon

Share this post


Link to post
1 hour ago, pachima said:

wtf is julian saying lmao?

we did test and effectivelly pory vs misdre comes down to twave vs sub 50/50 mindgames. it's not a surefire counter and if you just spam foulplay you indeed lose 1 on 1.

 

so idk what are you even trying to bring to the table with that comment on a tier you have no idea about

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, pachima said:

If only you knew.

eh.. you have no idea about any tier so it was a safe bet anyways.

 

It was nice seeing a no item arcanine doing 15 to conk and a dusknoir doing 0.. it was so sweet seeing how the most common mon in the tier almost 6-0'd you was it not for a crit, your builds in any tier are generally bad so I have no reason to think it'd be any different in lc.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, FNTCZ said:

eh.. you have no idea about any tier so it was a safe bet anyways.

 

It was nice seeing a no item arcanine doing 15 to conk and a dusknoir doing 0.. it was so sweet seeing how the most common mon in the tier almost 6-0'd you was it not for a crit, your builds in any tier are generally bad so I have no reason to think it'd be any different in lc.

xd. In that same tier you fail to win against me every time we fight? XDDDDDDDD

Now you made my day. Thanks truly.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, pachima said:

xd. In that same tier you fail to win against me every time we fight? XDDDDDDDD

Now you made my day. Thanks truly.

Because I you are a pain in the ass and I dodge you in UNRANKED matchmaking you think it suddenly means anything other that you being annoying to play agains, id rather not waste my mental thank you.

 

I dont even remember the last time you won anything/anyone took you seriouslly so it is pointless to even try and argue about that.

Share this post


Link to post
1 minute ago, Havsha said:

So, how does Misd being potentially busted make Scraggy any less of a problem?

gb openly said scraggy is busted

Share this post


Link to post
6 minutes ago, Havsha said:

So, how does Misd being potentially busted make Scraggy any less of a problem?

It doesn't, it should be discussed separately but this is the LC discussion thread, not the scraggy discussion thread and when a potential action on scrag was brought up I mentioned a side-effect it'd have immediatelly in the tier (misdre running rampant after it's gone) I think it is particualary relevant because chain-effect bans are often "not wanted" by the tc.

 

But eh, murkov was another potential check and it's gone, (scraggy/random shell smashers were nowhere as dangerous as they are now when murk was still on the tier). Idont think it should've been banned but thats an entirely different story.

Edited by FNTCZ

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Zymogen said:

gb openly said scraggy is busted

was not directed towards Gb

1 minute ago, FNTCZ said:

It doesn't, it should be discussed separately but this is the LC discussion thread, not the scraggy discussion thread and when a potential action on scrag was brought up I mentioned a side-effect it'd have immediatelly in the tier

Fair enough, I apologise I misunderstood the intentions of the shift as a defense of scraggy

Share this post


Link to post

Haven't seen Misdreavus nor Scraggy sweep in this PSL. But I did see Scraggy flinch Timburr and Mienfoo like 3 times with Zen headbutt and winning 1vs1. On paper, Timburr with drain punch and mach punch beats scraggy.

Bold Vullaby easily wins 1vs1 against a +1 scraggy. HJK mienfoo survives zen headbutt and ohkoes.

Misdreavus, on paper can be scaring, but there are lots of way to deal with it.

Beat up scarfed houndour, crunch/pursuit munchlax, twave sball/foul play porygon, lots of focus sash pokes can 2hko it,.

Honestly i think the moment we start banning things in lc, the tier will be ruined. Nothing is uber yet, just watch tournaments, Misdreavus never sweeps, Scraggy if it doesn't flinch its opponent, or if it misses zen headbutt, it loses.

Let's give it some time before trying to push for anything.

Share this post


Link to post
On 9/20/2018 at 12:15 AM, Sashaolin said:

I lost in today's LC tournament due to a bug.

Round 2 : Pitzzin VS Kriliin

Turn 24 : I knocked off a midlife Gastly and his berry juice activated...

This is a bug, like with the move Bug Bite, the berry shouldn't activate before the effect.

Fix it please... @Munya

4 months later, still nothing has been done, time to fix this...

Share this post


Link to post
On 8/26/2018 at 2:49 PM, OrangeManiac said:

196+ Atk Life Orb Houndour Pursuit vs. 196 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 10-16 (40 - 64%) -- 12.1% chance to 2HKO

 

This is the most damage Houndour can do but not to mention how stupid + Attack Houndour is, let's have a more realistic calc.

 

0 Atk Houndour Pursuit vs. 196 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 6-8 (24 - 32%) -- 22.8% chance to 4HKO

0 Atk Life Orb Houndour Pursuit vs. 196 HP / 196+ Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 8-10 (32 - 40%) -- 17.6% chance to 3HKO

 

196 SpA Life Orb Houndour Dark Pulse vs. 196 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 18-23 (72 - 92%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

196 SpA Life Orb Houndour Dark Pulse vs. +1 196 HP / 0 SpD Eviolite Misdreavus: 16-18 (64 - 72%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

Meanwhile:

 

76 SpA Misdreavus Hidden Power Fighting vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndour: 12-16 (63.1 - 84.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

76 SpA Misdreavus Thunderbolt vs. 0 HP / 0 SpD Houndour: 10-12 (52.6 - 63.1%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

 

I wouldn't even switch out Misdreavus against Houndour because it's not even a bad 1v1 matchup for it. Scarf Pursuit is nowhere near a reliable 2HKO, Misdreavus can be faster. If you don't wanna run HP Fighting even Thunderbolt will do the job.

what about the move beat up? dark typing and also the chance to break any subs and then ko

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
47 minutes ago, DrakeHope said:

Ban arena trap, this shit is not competitive

only in lc or all tiers? and why?

Share this post


Link to post

7a0226ac67dc5a0ff7771676eb27da36.png

Tier: LC

Misdreavus has been used a lot since Unova hit, as it unbanned it from the tier. It has been brought up atleast one time previously if memory serves right, though this was with Scraggy still in the tier. Therefore a new (test) ban suggestion seems in place.

 

Why is this worthy of a ban?

Versatility and Coverage - Misdreavus is without a doubt versatile, its movepool is absolutely massive. It's base stats is the highest in the tier, amazing typing combined with the ability levitate giving it three immunities. The two common achetypes that is currently played are, scarf and eviolite. While it's impossible to cover all the different movesets Misdreavus can run, there are a few noteworthy, keep in mind I'll only present the most common EV spread being: 36/0/0/236/0/236, giving it 23/9-12/12/18/15/19 stats.

Scarf: Trick, Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Hidden Power Fire/Fighting.

Eviolite: Shadow Ball, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Hidden Power Fire/Fighting, Calm mind, Substitute, Will-o-Wisp, Pain-Split.

It basically depends on your team what you need out of Misdreavus.

Usage - While LC is a tier where high usage is much more common than other tiers, Misdreavus has for the past half year kept a steady 60+% usage rate. The only other contender for high usage is Mienfoo with rougly the same usage.

Dec 2019 : 65.35%

Nov 2019 (Without Diglett) : 69.80%

Oct 2019 (Without Diglett) : 59.86%

Sept 2019 (Without Diglett) : 65.31%

Aug 2019 : 65.89%

July 2019: 63.32%

 

Limits teambuilding - The only two pokemon that can "reliably" deal with are Porygon, arguably the best answer with Foul Play, and Munchlax which is hindered if it gets Tricked or burned by Will-o-wisp. Yes, both of them are currently quite good in the meta, they are hindered as they can't take too much damage to face Misdreavus. Mienfoo, which often is willing to get burned, or severly damaged to take of the item of Misdreavus.

Since it's impossible to know what set it carries until you've either taken a lot of damage, or your counter is already feinted. You'd need to keep them at either full health or not use them until Misdreavus enters the field.

As for revenge killing, with Misdreavus being in the second highest speed bracket within LC, being 19, there are very few pokes to speed tie with it, or to outspeed pokes need to be scarfed with pursuit, contenders being, sandile, pawniard and doduo (keep in mind, all of them can be killed if Misdreavus doesn't switch, as no Pursuit kills it outright). Otherwise it can just switch out safely.

 

The only thing Misdreavus misses is reliable recovery, even that can be arguably fixed with Pain Split.

 

Pursuit

Spoiler
236 Atk Pawniard Pursuit vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 12-14 (52.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 14)
 
180+ Atk Sandile Pursuit vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 12-14 (52.1 - 60.8%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Possible damage amounts: (12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 12, 14)
 
236 Atk Doduo Pursuit vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 10)
236+ Atk Munchlax Pursuit vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 10)
236+ Atk burned Munchlax Pursuit vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 4-5 (17.3 - 21.7%) -- possible 5HKO
Possible damage amounts: (4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4, 5)

Foul Play

Spoiler
0- Atk Porygon Foul Play vs. 36 HP / 0 Def Eviolite Misdreavus: 8-10 (34.7 - 43.4%) -- guaranteed 3HKO
Possible damage amounts: (8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 10)

Potential Pokemon's that can get out of hand.

Mienfoo

Clamperl

 

Spoiler

Credits to my boi Lifestyle for the format

 

Share this post


Link to post

Honestly though, Misdreavus seems like that one pokemon that glues a tier all together. I usually don't take post-ban metagame health into account in these discussions, but Misdreavus is a really special case. It definitely stops a lot of things from going full berserk, Bulky W-o-W is nice against Mienfoo, Scarf helps against +2 Clamperl. There's other things but those 2 are the main ones (spot on calls from Yetto). It can run a variety of roles, be it wallbreaking, revenge killing or sweeping. But it can't do all of them at once and usually just by looking at a team, you can pretty much guess what kind of Misdreavus your opponent might be running (unless he has no clue of what he's doing). I think it's too good not to use, but idk if I would argue that LC would be better off without it, same thing with Mienfoo (which had 73.72% usage this last month). Another thing I wonder is if LC has a big enough sample size of a playerbase to react properly over such a huge game-changing ban like this one. So in my opinion, I would not ban Misdreavus. Banning it would offer more problems than solutions.

 

In the case Misdreavus does get banned though, these are the obvious next steps:

 

Test-ban Mienfoo

Ban DeepSeaTooth + Clamperl combination

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.