pachima Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Scraggy is the only fighting mon that has access to dragon dance, so we could complex ban it, right? right? right? Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 1 minute ago, pachima said: Scraggy is the only fighting mon that has access to dragon dance, so we could complex ban it, right? right? right? It's not the only mon with Dragon Dance. The fact that it also is a fighting mon is not relevant. Edited June 4, 2020 by gbwead typetheory 1 Link to comment
Gunthug Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 I guess here's my overarching problem with a regenerator ban. Yes, it's not technically a complex ban. But it's also not really addressing the problem of Mienfoo being potentially unhealthy for the tier. If we flat ban regenerator, and then foongus/slowpoke get their HA's, and regenerator Mienfoo comes back, and it's still at 70% usage - what do we do then? Ban regen on mienfoo? Ok, now its a complex ban. Ban mienfoo flat? Why the hell didn't we just do that originally Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Gunthug said: I guess here's my overarching problem with a regenerator ban. Yes, it's not technically a complex ban. But it's also not really addressing the problem of Mienfoo being potentially unhealthy for the tier. If we flat ban regenerator, and then foongus/slowpoke get their HA's, and regenerator Mienfoo comes back, and it's still at 70% usage - what do we do then? Ban regen on mienfoo? Ok, now its a complex ban. Ban mienfoo flat? Why the hell didn't we just do that originally We're not there yet. And ya, we will have to reevaluate the situation. A lot will change when we get HA's. We should not tier based on what will or might happen later, we'll deal with that when it becomes pertinent which is not the case now. Link to comment
pachima Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 There is a simpler solution. Create a poll and let players decide. DaftCoolio and gbwead 2 Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 25 minutes ago, pachima said: There is a simpler solution. Create a poll and let players decide. jajajajajaja Gunthug and pachima 2 Link to comment
DaftCoolio Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 hours ago, gbwead said: We should not tier based on what will or might happen later, we'll deal with that when it becomes pertinent which is not the case now. On 6/4/2020 at 5:10 AM, gbwead said: I personally fear that banning Mienfoo would result in Porygon, a remarkable threat, becoming overwhelming. I personally believe that banning Mienfoo or Regenerator in LC would be a bad idea for this reason. As unhealthy as Mienfoo can be, it's probably better to keep it around because without it, there is imo a very good chance everything gets worse. Arguing with yourself, gb has reached his final form Spaintakula, gbwead and Suneet 2 1 Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 57 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said: Arguing with yourself, gb has reached his final form The conditions do not change in that instance tho. There are no new parameters introduced in the event mienfoo gets banned and porygon gets banned too afterwards. If Mienfoo gets test banned for being unhealthy, the result of the test ban needs to show that the meta is healthier without Mienfoo. I just don't think that will be the case and that's why I'm against the test ban. Edited June 4, 2020 by gbwead Link to comment
DaftCoolio Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 27 minutes ago, gbwead said: If Mienfoo gets test banned for being unhealthy, the result of the test ban needs to show that the meta is healthier without Mienfoo. I just don't think that will be the case and that's why I'm against the test ban. The whole point of a test ban is to see if its healthier or not. That way we dont have to sit here and say i THINK it will be better or worse, without seeing the actual result. Your drawing conclusions without even looking at the data. Link to comment
Gunthug Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 1 hour ago, gbwead said: The conditions do not change in that instance tho. There are no new parameters introduced in the event mienfoo gets banned and porygon gets banned too afterwards. If Mienfoo gets test banned for being unhealthy, the result of the test ban needs to show that the meta is healthier without Mienfoo. I just don't think that will be the case and that's why I'm against the test ban. 58 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said: The whole point of a test ban is to see if its healthier or not. That way we dont have to sit here and say i THINK it will be better or worse, without seeing the actual result. Your drawing conclusions without even looking at the data. Well the problem with the "unhealthy" criteria is that, you kind of do have to speculate about what the meta will look like after a ban. This is usually discouraged in offensive/defense/support uber discussions but when the discussion is unhealthiness, you have to speculate a little bit, since the entire argument is that the metagame will be healthier after a ban - or, in gb's case, that the meta will NOT be healthier after a ban (which involves describing that metagame and how it will be healthier/unhealthier) This is why I hate the "unhealthy" discussions. I'm just glad it's not blastoise for once Link to comment
DaftCoolio Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Gunthug said: Well the problem with the "unhealthy" criteria is that, you kind of do have to speculate about what the meta will look like after a ban. This is usually discouraged in offensive/defense/support uber discussions but when the discussion is unhealthiness, you have to speculate a little bit, since the entire argument is that the metagame will be healthier after a ban - or, in gb's case, that the meta will NOT be healthier after a ban (which involves describing that metagame and how it will be healthier/unhealthier) This is why I hate the "unhealthy" discussions. I'm just glad it's not blastoise for once You dont have to speculate if you do a test ban though Link to comment
Gunthug Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said: You dont have to speculate if you do a test ban though What's the threshold for a test ban then? That someone merely suggests one? Link to comment
DaftCoolio Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 23 minutes ago, Gunthug said: What's the threshold for a test ban then? That someone merely suggests one? Idk man 70% usage could be a start? AndrewHavsha, TohnR, Caliginosus and 1 other 4 Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 (edited) 48 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said: You dont have to speculate if you do a test ban though What are you looking for exactly in the test? What would be the goal? Edited June 5, 2020 by gbwead Link to comment
DaftCoolio Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, gbwead said: What are you looking for exactly in the test? What would be the goal? Your generic things like less pokemon over 40%, more pokemon above 15%. Then a decrease in usage of specific pokemon which have little use other than stopping mienfoo trubbish/grimer/tentacool Link to comment
RLotus Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 Idk why were discussing healthiness when mien is blatantly support uber. Link to comment
gbwead Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 7 hours ago, RLotus said: Idk why were discussing healthiness when mien is blatantly support uber. how is it support uber? Link to comment
RLotus Posted June 6, 2020 Share Posted June 6, 2020 4 hours ago, gbwead said: how is it support uber? A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep. Knocking off eviolites from opposing walls makes them much more frail and gives sweepers an easier time. Also, mien can often slow uturn on whatever is in front of it bc there are very few things that ohko it, giving sweepers a safe opening. Mien’s stupid bulk and regenerator allow for many opportunities for it to come in making it absurdly consistent, often netting momentum or crippling a wall multiple times a game. Even after a wilo or getting poisoned from tspike it’s still doing what it pretty much wants to. Even when the opponent has a sticky hold user miens bulk makes spamming uturn quite easy, making it hard to deal with. There is yamask, but it’s worn easily and isn’t really contributing enough to warrant an entire slot to imo. All of that aside, i don’t really see an issue with banning pory if it become too overwhelming after mien goes. I don’t see any pokemon that will become too much of an issue if it goes resulting in further chain banning, unless i’m missing something? gbwead 1 Link to comment
EmmaCACHJ Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 (edited) T R U B B I S H H S I B B U R T R R U U B B B B I I S S H H this is easy BAN FOO or they get used to using something to stop it Edited June 17, 2020 by EmmaCACHJ Link to comment
OrangeManiac Posted June 17, 2020 Share Posted June 17, 2020 Swords Dance Mienfoo can beat Trubbish and struggles with Grimer much less than some people make it sound. Just because people utilize Mienfoo as a defensive pivot with lackluster coverage rather than SD sweeper, all of its potential need to be taken into consideration when determining if it's too strong. And before some @ me with "you only should talk about the most common sets when discussing a Pokemon", that is just incorrect. A moveset shouldn't be considered unviable because a Pokemon has even better moveset. Koffing is pretty much the only actual wall to Swords Danced Mienfoo. DaftCoolio 1 Link to comment
DaftCoolio Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 test ban mienfoo now? Link to comment
hannahtaylor Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Can we discuss recycle berry juice? I feel a lot of LC revolves around it, people can run 4 or more pokemon with it, constantly healing at the right time. I'm not quite sure what else to say to get my point through but what's everyone's opinion on it? kuplion 1 Link to comment
HumongousNoodle Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 1 hour ago, hannahtaylor said: Can we discuss recycle berry juice? I feel a lot of LC revolves around it, people can run 4 or more pokemon with it, constantly healing at the right time. I'm not quite sure what else to say to get my point through but what's everyone's opinion on it? Not an LC player but the amount of recycle berry juice usage looks a bit problematic when spectating tournaments. Should definately be discussed. kuplion 1 Link to comment
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