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LC Discussion Request Thread


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1 minute ago, pachima said:

Scraggy is the only fighting mon that has access to dragon dance, so we could complex ban it, right? right? right?

It's not the only mon with Dragon Dance. The fact that it also is a fighting mon is not relevant.

Edited by gbwead
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I guess here's my overarching problem with a regenerator ban. Yes, it's not technically a complex ban. But it's also not really addressing the problem of Mienfoo being potentially unhealthy for the tier. If we flat ban regenerator, and then foongus/slowpoke get their HA's, and regenerator Mienfoo comes back, and it's still at 70% usage - what do we do then? Ban regen on mienfoo? Ok, now its a complex ban. Ban mienfoo flat? Why the hell didn't we just do that originally

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1 minute ago, Gunthug said:

I guess here's my overarching problem with a regenerator ban. Yes, it's not technically a complex ban. But it's also not really addressing the problem of Mienfoo being potentially unhealthy for the tier. If we flat ban regenerator, and then foongus/slowpoke get their HA's, and regenerator Mienfoo comes back, and it's still at 70% usage - what do we do then? Ban regen on mienfoo? Ok, now its a complex ban. Ban mienfoo flat? Why the hell didn't we just do that originally

We're not there yet. And ya, we will have to reevaluate the situation. A lot will change when we get HA's. We should not tier based on what will or might happen later, we'll deal with that when it becomes pertinent which is not the case now.

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4 hours ago, gbwead said:

We should not tier based on what will or might happen later, we'll deal with that when it becomes pertinent which is not the case now.

 

On 6/4/2020 at 5:10 AM, gbwead said:

I personally fear that banning Mienfoo would result in Porygon, a remarkable threat, becoming overwhelming. 

 

I personally believe that banning Mienfoo or Regenerator in LC would be a bad idea for this reason. As unhealthy as Mienfoo can be, it's probably better to keep it around because without it, there is imo a very good chance everything gets worse. 

 

 

Arguing with yourself, gb has reached his final form

 

 

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57 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

Arguing with yourself, gb has reached his final form

The conditions do not change in that instance tho. There are no new parameters introduced in the event mienfoo gets banned and porygon gets banned too afterwards. If Mienfoo gets test banned for being unhealthy, the result of the test ban needs to show that the meta is healthier without Mienfoo. I just don't think that will be the case and that's why I'm against the test ban.

Edited by gbwead
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27 minutes ago, gbwead said:

 If Mienfoo gets test banned for being unhealthy, the result of the test ban needs to show that the meta is healthier without Mienfoo. I just don't think that will be the case and that's why I'm against the test ban.

The whole point of a test ban is to see if its healthier or not. That way we dont have to sit here and say i THINK it will be better or worse, without seeing the actual result. Your drawing conclusions without even looking at the data.

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1 hour ago, gbwead said:

The conditions do not change in that instance tho. There are no new parameters introduced in the event mienfoo gets banned and porygon gets banned too afterwards. If Mienfoo gets test banned for being unhealthy, the result of the test ban needs to show that the meta is healthier without Mienfoo. I just don't think that will be the case and that's why I'm against the test ban.

 

58 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

The whole point of a test ban is to see if its healthier or not. That way we dont have to sit here and say i THINK it will be better or worse, without seeing the actual result. Your drawing conclusions without even looking at the data.

Well the problem with the "unhealthy" criteria is that, you kind of do have to speculate about what the meta will look like after a ban. This is usually discouraged in offensive/defense/support uber discussions but when the discussion is unhealthiness, you have to speculate a little bit, since the entire argument is that the metagame will be healthier after a ban - or, in gb's case, that the meta will NOT be healthier after a ban (which involves describing that metagame and how it will be healthier/unhealthier)

 

This is why I hate the "unhealthy" discussions. I'm just glad it's not blastoise for once

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5 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

 

Well the problem with the "unhealthy" criteria is that, you kind of do have to speculate about what the meta will look like after a ban. This is usually discouraged in offensive/defense/support uber discussions but when the discussion is unhealthiness, you have to speculate a little bit, since the entire argument is that the metagame will be healthier after a ban - or, in gb's case, that the meta will NOT be healthier after a ban (which involves describing that metagame and how it will be healthier/unhealthier)

 

This is why I hate the "unhealthy" discussions. I'm just glad it's not blastoise for once

You dont have to speculate if you do a test ban though

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48 minutes ago, DaftCoolio said:

You dont have to speculate if you do a test ban though

What are you looking for exactly in the test? What would be the goal?

Edited by gbwead
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8 minutes ago, gbwead said:

What are you looking for exactly in the test? What would be the goal?

Your generic things like less pokemon over 40%, more pokemon above 15%. Then a decrease in usage of specific pokemon which have little use other than stopping mienfoo trubbish/grimer/tentacool

 

 

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4 hours ago, gbwead said:

how is it support uber?

A Pokémon is uber if, in common battle conditions, it can consistently set up a situation in which it makes it substantially easier for other pokemon to sweep.

Knocking off eviolites from opposing walls makes them much more frail and gives sweepers an easier time. Also, mien can often slow uturn on whatever is in front of it bc there are very few things that ohko it, giving sweepers a safe opening.

 

Mien’s stupid bulk and regenerator allow for many opportunities for it to come in making it absurdly consistent, often netting momentum or crippling a wall multiple times a game. Even after a wilo or getting poisoned from tspike it’s still doing what it pretty much wants to. Even when the opponent has a sticky hold user miens bulk makes spamming uturn quite easy, making it hard to deal with. There is yamask, but it’s worn easily and isn’t really contributing enough to warrant an entire slot to imo.

 

All of that aside, i don’t really see an issue with banning pory if it become too overwhelming after mien goes. I don’t see any pokemon that will become too much of an issue if it goes resulting in further chain banning, unless i’m missing something?

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

T R U B B I S H       H S I B B U R T

   R                                                R

      U                                         U

         B                                   B

            B                             B

               I                         I

                 S                  S

                    H           H

 

9zfazZM.png

 

this is easy BAN FOO or they get used to using something to stop it

 

Edited by EmmaCACHJ
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Swords Dance Mienfoo can beat Trubbish and struggles with Grimer much less than some people make it sound. Just because people utilize Mienfoo as a defensive pivot with lackluster coverage rather than SD sweeper, all of its potential need to be taken into consideration when determining if it's too strong. 

 

And before some @ me with "you only should talk about the most common sets when discussing a Pokemon", that is just incorrect. A moveset shouldn't be considered unviable because a Pokemon has even better moveset.

 

Koffing is pretty much the only actual wall to Swords Danced Mienfoo.

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  • 4 weeks later...
  • 2 months later...
1 hour ago, hannahtaylor said:

Can we discuss recycle berry juice? I feel a lot of LC revolves around it, people can run 4 or more pokemon with it, constantly healing at the right time. I'm not quite sure what else to say to get my point through but what's everyone's opinion on it?

Not an LC player but the amount of recycle berry juice usage looks a bit problematic when spectating tournaments.

Should definately be discussed.

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