Personal Shop/Shop Stand

[Michelle]

Though I assumed this was suggested, looking back through posts it never was, so I'll throw it out there. :)
 

Option 1, set up a personal stand, this could be indicated with an over head icon, or possibly a Small Table sprite.
(This would allow players to advertise any deals to the general public, as well as give players perusing a town/city something to be wary of-- e.g. good deals, useful items in harder areas, and even Pokemon.)

Option 2, seclude an area and designate it as the player marketplace, where Mart buildings are spawned when a players opens a shop. It would also be neat if players could place an item for you to make an offer on, to simulate the "Sell" option(Though this would be useful in any option of this suggestion). The other variant, due to space limitations, would be pre-rendered Marts that could be claimed by players for a certain amount of time before a cool down occurs. (I'm not sure what's on Birth Island or Navel Rock but that could work nicely.)

Option 3, allow shops to be listed similar to GTL, with the option to open anyone's active shop by right clicking them. They could then advertise they have a shop open, and anyone in the area could then view it. This would work nicely with the Mail system, as I imagine the other options could use a basic trading system. Also, similar to the "Sell" option allow shop owners to list items/pokemon they are looking for-- and the price offered for it. (This was recently suggested and I believe the two ideas could coincide nicely.)
 

Option 4, allow players to view other's "GTL Listings" in grouped form. Right-click view optional.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Michelle

[razimove]

Personally no thanks. I'd rather walk on any city and not be flooded by afk people on a stand. There's a trade chat for that, and if trade chat isn't enough you have GTL.



This is an oldschool popular mmo you probably don't know. But to give you an idea, this is how a good portion of the main city looks thanks to the shop stand. Even on a private area, it will be a mess.

[Michelle]

I would argue the issue there is the bubbles and the 2d-3d map, allowing for terrible layering. I think the opposite might occur, as I often see players avoid standing on the same spot quite avidly.

[razimove]

9 minutes ago, Michelle said:

avoid standing on the same spot quite avidly.

what? Avoid standing on the same spot? Vermillion and island 4 have tons of people standing in the same stop since forever. Also, this game is as 2d/3d as pokemmo is right now, and is 12 years older than pokemmo. Actually, I'd say, this game has more depth perception that pokemmo, since you can't change camera angle or anything in pokemmo, and some spots in unova really look weird with the camera locks.

[RyuujiHit]

20 minutes ago, redspawn said:

Personally no thanks. I'd rather walk on any city and not be flooded by afk people on a stand. There's a trade chat for that, and if trade chat isn't enough you have GTL.



This is an oldschool popular mmo you probably don't know. But to give you an idea, this is how a good portion of the main city looks thanks to the shop stand. Even on a private area, it will be a mess.

Yes, the truth would be very bad to see the disorder of the marketplaces, as in the "RO". by the way that MMO is very old school, those times.

[Michelle]

My argument is that regardless of standing on the same spot or not, it could not possibly look like that, as the movements are bound to a grid. My suggestion was also limited to an over head Icon, or Table sprite(possibly optional from Secret Base Items), to reduce any text clutter. Even if shops were setup on the same spot, it would only make viewing them more streamlined.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Michelle

[IDKPRO]

Make it like slateport? Where there is a mini market selling useless(not all)  shit.. Would be cool but is necessary with trade chat and gtl available? And I don't think people standing there all day waiting for someone to buy is a good idea especially for the fact that buyer and seller must be online. 

[Michelle]

7 minutes ago, IDKPRO said:

Make it like slateport? Where there is a mini market selling useless(not all)  shit.. Would be cool but is necessary with trade chat and gtl available? And I don't think people standing there all day waiting for someone to buy is a good idea especially for the fact that buyer and seller must be online. 

I couldn't agree more, the idea is merely a localized version of these premises. While this suggestion is not necessary given the options in-game, I do believe it would change the current market where convenience is concerned. For example, a player might make some extra coin by teaching some Pokemon flash before Rock Tunnel, and then sell them with prices appropriated for the area. You might argue that this could be accomplished through trade chat, or GTL, and I wouldn't disagree, this is merely an atmospheric shift in the way some items are sold. This is a small example of the level of convenience that could be provided in a world this populated. 

Edited December 24, 2017 by Michelle

[razimove]

33 minutes ago, Michelle said:

My argument is that regardless of standing on the same spot or not, it could not possibly look like that, as the movements are bound to a grid. My suggestion was also limited to an over head Icon, or Table sprite(possibly optional from Secret Base Items), to reduce any text clutter. Even if shops were setup on the same spot, it would only make viewing them more streamlined.

I can give you a few example of other 'shop stall' games, dragonica, maplestory, Aion iirc, don't remember if lineage 2 has them or not, metin2. Doesnt matter how you do it, it will be a mess. To the point, for french/european ragnarok, we accepted a guy running a bot 24/7, that allowed him to check shops 1 by 1 and update his website. http://www.amity-guild.de/ this. 

Now, I can give you a good example of 3 games who strived till today, are are some of the most popular mmos. Guild wars 2, world of warcraft, runescape. Do you know what they all have in common with your idea? They don't have a 'shop stall'. They have a GTL.


There's no need for this, and it would just create more of a mess than anything really. GTL will always be the superior solution.

[Michelle]

13 minutes ago, redspawn said:

I can give you a few example of other 'shop stall' games, dragonica, maplestory, Aion iirc, don't remember if lineage 2 has them or not, metin2. Doesnt matter how you do it, it will be a mess. To the point, for french/european ragnarok, we accepted a guy running a bot 24/7, that allowed him to check shops 1 by 1 and update his website. http://www.amity-guild.de/ this. 

Now, I can give you a good example of 3 games who strived till today, are are some of the most popular mmos. Guild wars 2, world of warcraft, runescape. Do you know what they all have in common with your idea? They don't have a 'shop stall'. They have a GTL.


There's no need for this, and it would just create more of a mess than anything really. GTL will always be the superior solution.

GTL is most definitely the better option where consistency is concerned. I've not disputed that, I would however disagree when you say there is no need for this. I myself have encountered many situations where a stall in the right place could result in profits for both parties involved. Not only that, but I currently have no way of reasonably selling strong pokemon I find during hunts to beginners. While their stats may be ideal, they are rarely searched for in the GTL below 25 IVs. If I could unload any worthy extras at a cheap price and also guarantee the right eyes will see the sale, I would say I need that.

P.S. I could see player stalls for gym weakness pokemon, and sellers fighting over low prices/strong choices. :3

Edited December 24, 2017 by Michelle

[razimove]

4 minutes ago, Michelle said:

, they are rarely searched for in the GTL below 25 IVs

There's a reason for this. People buy pokemons to play competitive, not for pve. For pve, they go on GTL, buy something in the lvl range they need as cheap as they can and that's it. This is called search and supply.

Just unload on GTL wtv else is left, or mail newbies, I do that from time to time. It helps them, and it helps me clean boxes that I feel are a waste releasing, win win situation.

Edited December 24, 2017 by redspawn

[Malorne]

Right, what u're not thinking about is the amount of lag and the strain it will cause to players (remember old tournaments in saffron, silph co.) Not even mentioning the stupid amount of spam. I'd rather have a Personal Shop within the GTL than in a place.

[Michelle]

51 minutes ago, redspawn said:

There's a reason for this. People buy pokemons to play competitive, not for pve. For pve, they go on GTL, buy something in the lvl range they need as cheap as they can and that's it. This is called search and supply.

Just unload on GTL wtv else is left, or mail newbies, I do that from time to time. It helps them, and it helps me clean boxes that I feel are a waste releasing, win win situation.

The idea would be supplying the niche areas, as well as covering convenience bases. While a Pokemon that is +20 IVs in all areas could significantly benefit a new player, they are rarely sold. You say people buy Pokemon for competitive, but the developers themselves have altered the game for a more competitive environment. I feel this will be a natural eventuality.
 

24 minutes ago, Malorne said:

Right, what u're not thinking about is the amount of lag and the strain it will cause to players (remember old tournaments in saffron, silph co.) Not even mentioning the stupid amount of spam. I'd rather have a Personal Shop within the GTL than in a place.

These options would only provide function to areas with cluttered players, and to other areas of the maps previously un-popularized. Spam already occurs in trade chat and can be seen globally in all areas, at most people might now also state where their shop is located. Lag is less likely to occur with shops hosted in the GTL, and that was one of my options, but I also feel a single icon above a players head is mostly occurring already, given battles, spectators, disconnects, or "!!" sprites. While it would bring more people to the areas, I have not viewed this sprite placeholder as a source of lag. The battles, chats, normal chats and information being transferred are much more likely to cause the lag during tournaments. The shop window would be hosted by the server for safety reasons, meaning there would be no excess client data to load, aside from window GUI and code(which is minuscule).

Edited December 24, 2017 by Michelle

[razimove]

9 hours ago, Michelle said:

 You say people buy Pokemon for competitive, but the developers themselves have altered the game for a more competitive environment.

There you go, you answered yourself. There's a reason to why people don't buy low ivs. Because they're useless towards competitive, and the end goal in this game is competitive.

[Michelle]

On 12/24/2017 at 9:41 AM, redspawn said:

There you go, you answered yourself. There's a reason to why people don't buy low ivs. Because they're useless towards competitive, and the end goal in this game is competitive.

My point was that there is a stat range of Pokemon that are unsold, but could still be utilized for the competitive atmosphere applied to the main game.

[razimove]

50 minutes ago, Michelle said:

but could still be utilized for the competitive atmosphere applied to the main game.

There's no competitive pve, only competitive pvp, you could argue battle frontier, but that requires you to have good comps, not random. If you mean more towards PVE, that has nothing to do with competitive at all. And even if you go by the developers wanting to developing end game pve content, you'll need competitive pokemon, that means good ivs, natures, egg moves, evs etc. Not a random pokemon.

Edited December 25, 2017 by redspawn
typos

[Michelle]

12 hours ago, redspawn said:

There's no competitive pve, only competitive pvp, you could argue battle frontier, but that requires you to have good comps, not random. If you mean more towards PVE, that has nothing to do with competitive at all. And even if you go by the developers wanting to developing end game pve content, you'll need competitive pokemon, that means good ivs, natures, egg moves, evs etc. Not a random pokemon.

If you presume I'm implying Random Pokemon should be easier to sell then I'm not sure you'll ever understand my point.

[Michaelclump]

This would definitely be cool, although I do think it'd need a specified zone to limit the spamminess of it, if it's physical. Maybe even have spots that players could rent for stalls, to prevent a stacking issue? Flat rent fee + taxed sales? Could definitely be an exciting way to highlight Pokemon "too good" for GTL.

[Akshit]

Personal Shop / Shop Stand ?

Trade Corner already serves that purpose.

[RealLifeAngel]

I for one think it is a marvelous idea, from what i remember, a lot of ppl (myself included) kind of just sat around ina' crowd at random cities anyway doin' nothin' besides talkin' shit, might as well give them something to do so they are not just wasting space lol

 

idk what there is to disagree w/ if there was not an afk limit cities would look exactly like that screencap @redspawn posted, except all those lifeless characters would be pointless ;o

[razimove]

1 hour ago, RealLifeAngel said:

a lot of ppl (myself included) kind of just sat around ina' crowd at random cities anyway doin' nothin' besides talkin' shit,

Yes, people hang on cities to talk, not to visit pseudo shops when they can already do that, and more efficiently, key word efficiently, with GTL. If an optimal solution was provided, why downgrade? And yes that's exactly how it would look like, a place full of lag for those with less powerful computers,  a clusterfuck for everyone, and overall a waste of space.

[Michelle]

21 hours ago, redspawn said:

Yes, people hang on cities to talk, not to visit pseudo shops when they can already do that, and more efficiently, key word efficiently, with GTL. If an optimal solution was provided, why downgrade? And yes that's exactly how it would look like, a place full of lag for those with less powerful computers,  a clusterfuck for everyone, and overall a waste of space.

I've proven lag would be no more of an issue than it would already is now. Efficiency was never the point of this solution so I don't know why that's an argument, especially after I've expressed that to you twice.. it's looking like players who don't want this just plug their ears/close their eyes and just say nonono. That's okay, not understanding localized market effects isn't uncommon.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Michelle

[razimove]

1 minute ago, Michelle said:

I've proven lag would be no more of an issue than it would already is now.

You clearly never went to a team tournament or any place that gets full of players, let's call players entities, entities is what causes lag. When there's a huge mass of entities, you'll feel laggy. Both server and client side aka your machine, you'll feel lag.

Efficiency is always the end goal as a developer when implementing anything. I'm not re-inventing the wheel if it is perfectly functional right now. Nor will I downgrade a perfectly viable and working system, when there's no necessity for that, or even re-create less viable solution to the one that's currently on the table.

[Michelle]

10 minutes ago, redspawn said:

You clearly never went to a team tournament or any place that gets full of players, let's call players entities, entities is what causes lag. When there's a huge mass of entities, you'll feel laggy. Both server and client side aka your machine, you'll feel lag.

Efficiency is always the end goal as a developer when implementing anything. I'm not re-inventing the wheel if it is perfectly functional right now. Nor will I downgrade a perfectly viable and working system, when there's no necessity for that, or even re-create less viable solution to the one that's currently on the table.

Your argument is based on the assumption that everyone will now have a shop setup. With GTL being the back-end marketplace, players often occupy themselves a little more heavily. The world won't turn to shops for regular priced sales, but for niche area/utility based sales. Giving new options for hunting and making money.

As far as the lag goes, I've explained that tournament's lag is due to mass data in one channel. Battles/Chats/Trades/Mail all contribute to the lag present in tournaments. I have not viewed sprites to be a source of lag. As of now, most major gathering spots have players and sprites above their heads, whether they are spectating, battling, disconnecting, or encountering a globally viewed npc which causes the "!!" sprite.

My suggestion was merely to add a sprite similar to the current ones, above the players head. Then simply access a shop similar to how you would access the GTL. If accessing the GTL and sprites above heads were an issue lag-wise, we would know it.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Michelle

[razimove]

5 minutes ago, Michelle said:

Giving new options for hunting and making money.

What option is there, that GTL doenst offer already, that would make this viable. You said, people who might want to buy, lets call it a semi competitive pokemon for pve, to clear lets say gyms, e4, npc encounters, GTL offers players plenty of that already. And they actually sell, not for a lot obviously, they're not ''good'' pokemons. Not saying everyone would have, but I'm pretty sure everyone and their moms would leave PC on during the night for a shop stall, as the game is international, without server split, this means, it would be flooded 24/7, or it would have no interest at all, would be 50/50, most likely the second as GTL, once again, exists. Pokemon, items, whatever you wnat, trade chat and GTL will provide you. You want to sell a niche? Question yourself first, are there buyers who'd want that niche? Not viable.

 

 

5 minutes ago, Michelle said:

mass data in one channel

Not exactly this, but also not wrong. Chat contributes the least to lag, as chat is a complete different thing. What contributes to lag is, then again, entities. 

[Michelle]

4 minutes ago, redspawn said:

What option is there, that GTL doenst offer already, that would make this viable. You said, people who might want to buy, lets call it a semi competitive pokemon for pve, to clear lets say gyms, e4, npc encounters, GTL offers players plenty of that already. And they actually sell, not for a lot obviously, they're not ''good'' pokemons. Not saying everyone would have, but I'm pretty sure everyone and their moms would leave PC on during the night for a shop stall, as the game is international, without server split, this means, it would be flooded 24/7, or it would have no interest at all, would be 50/50, most likely the second as GTL, once again, exists. Pokemon, items, whatever you wnat, trade chat and GTL will provide you. You want to sell a niche? Question yourself first, are there buyers who'd want that niche? Not viable.

 

 

Not exactly this, but also not wrong. Chat contributes the least to lag, as chat is a complete different thing. What contributes to lag is, then again, entities. 

I'm sorry but if you think a one-time load of a character's vanities or follower sprites causes lag I would have to question your specs.