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Lower the berry powder costs for pp ups


Quakkz

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9 minutes ago, Quakkz said:

the short supply and high prices on gtl reflect that pretty well

Since it's only been  3 days since we've patched - It's probably too early to tell.

 

The GTL could easily just be indicating high demand, not neccessarily 'too high' requirements when crafting.

 

That said - their previous price point is probably not a good indication of their true value, as most of them were seemingly generated via Mystery Boxes or previous storyline runs.

It's inevitably going to differ from whatever it was at before.

 

Please note that I'm not making a statement either way in regards to whether or not their current price point or influx/outflux is correct, but it's unlikely that we'll be able to fully determine at this stage whether that is the case due to age of the mechanic changes and how many new and old players are becoming accustomed to them.

 

 

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From what I heard making a PP Up cost 30k and some BP now.

 

Its crazy how expensive and just another example of Devs stealling comp people their money. Kinda the reason why the game pissed me off and I barely play this game anymore

 

- Everything gets more expensive ex. Pp ups, TMs

- Old comps got useless

- Less payouts with gyms and trainers

 

Amazing how you have to farm money for like a month to get a comp. Yes I know farming is a thing but this isnt FarmVille lmao.

 

Cant wait till the hidden bullshit ability dungeon is there so even more comps get useless like Salamence

 

 

 

Edited by Mnemosyne
Vieze droeftoeter devs
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8 hours ago, Darkshade said:

Since it's only been  3 days since we've patched - It's probably too early to tell.

 

The GTL could easily just be indicating high demand, not neccessarily 'too high' requirements when crafting.

In 2 of these points, you are totally right- it has been only 3 days since the patch and the demand is high.

 

Thing about PP Ups/ Maxes is, these are always in incredibly high demand. Literally always- and especially now, when a whole generation of new pokes came out and we need those pp-uping items for our new comps. I do not think it's too early to tell that the current method of obtaining these is really tough as well as very expensive.

 

Instead of helping us to obtain new comps, you are just creating another barrier and raising difficulty (and cost) of comps again.

 

8 hours ago, Darkshade said:

That said - their previous price point is probably not a good indication of their true value, as most of them were seemingly generated via Mystery Boxes or previous storyline runs.

It's inevitably going to differ from whatever it was at before.

Here you're right again- people will need to adjust to creating new PP Ups, but since these items are the most desired stuff by competitive players, the price will only go up, creating an even bigger barrier for new players to join the competitive society. Also, storyline runs barely gave any PP ups anymore ever since the storyline was altered to a degree where I was finding a poison barb rather than PP Up. And also, now they are untradeable, which makes things even better.

 

Let me just sum up:

-PP Ups are gone from storyline

-PP Ups' amount received from mystery boxes is half of what it was before

-Only method of obtaining them forces players to farm berries.

 

Since this is a competitive game, PP Ups are strictly competitive items, I suggest to put them as items available for Battle Points like they were in ugh, emerald I think, while leaving the crafting method as well. We are just desperate for them and this one, obscure method of obtaining them is not enough.

Edited by RysPicz
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The problem is that an alarming amount of viable moves in Generation 5 are either 5 or 10 PP, and you pretty much have no option but to PP Max it. This removes all kinds of "trial and error" type of teambuilding, and in addition so many times the newer players just don't have any better knowledge of how to moveset their Pokemon and end up having to change their moveset time after time the more knowledge they have gained from the metagame. It really often gets to the point the wisest economic decision is rather to breed a new Pokemon than change your current one's moveset every other day.

 

I guess that's one incentive for people to breed new Pokemon, I don't know if it's exactly a good one.

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2 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

just another example of Devs stealling comp people their money.

This doesn't only affect competitive players, I don't see why everyone thinks it does. It affects all competitive players but also the regular player base with the increased difficulty of PvE. These items are used by everyone in the community

 

2 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

-Everything gets more expensive ex. Pp ups, TMs

-Old comps got useless

-Less payouts with gyms and trainers

-TM's were made available through a means other than through the story, this being available in marts. So if by more expensive you mean from $0 doing an alt to a price on your main, sure. 

-Except there are a lot that are still as useful as they were before the update. Movesets might need changing, but the spreads can still be viable. This update was nothing compared to when Breeding was introduced or the Phys/Spec split. So many Pokemon are still useful

-It was recently buffed in the last patch, and anyone who remembers back when they were giving loads of cash knew just how broken it was. I seem to recall most of the player base (or at least the ones with voices) agreeing with the nerf to the payout as it was plainly obvious just how easy it was to obtain money every 6 hours.

2 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

Amazing how you have to farm money for like a month to get a comp. Yes I know farming is a thing but this isnt FarmVille lmao.

There are other options to make money other than beating trainers, if you don't wish to do them that's hardly the fault of anyone other than yourself. You could do as little as catch wild pokemon and sell on the GTL even, every penny counts

 

2 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

Cant wait till the hidden bullshit ability dungeon is there so even more comps get useless like Salamence

Real PvE content that this game has needed, and has been asked for by majority of the community for years, and you now don't want it? I also like how you brought up Salamence like Intimidate become bad or something, again even with HA many mons can utilize their regular abilities just as well, sometimes better than with their HA.

 

 

In the end this change was made to accommodate the vast amount of berry patches that were added. It made the old crafting prices obsolete as you can collect something like 1000 berries in one farming cycle. One thing I can agree to is 4f stating how this is now the only viable method of obtaining PP Ups. I don't think anyone should be forced to plant berries just to obtain items necessary for competition. At least the only alternative maybe should be buying them/the ingredients from gtl

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11 hours ago, Darkshade said:

That said - their previous price point is probably not a good indication of their true value, as most of them were seemingly generated via Mystery Boxes or previous storyline runs.

It's inevitably going to differ from whatever it was at before.

The change that worries me the most is the change in yield in powder from each berry, you could bearly make a profit pre-update farming sitrusberries which gave 5 powder. I looked at it and realized that it was more profitable to just sell the berries as they where. Now you need 30 berries, before it took 8 and it wasn't really profitable then. Ye market price will probably rise a bit, but this giant cost-increase seems pretty bad imo. This is only speculating ik but i dont see how prices can drop far under 30k for a pp-up when it takes 30 berries. 

Also, there should be some kind of carrot to make PP-maxes, at the moment it costs the exact same as 3 PP-ups.   

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10 minutes ago, Tritios said:

your math is bad,

30x3x4= 360k if you want to max all moves assuming pp ups are 30k

Yeah ur right my bad.

 

Makes my point only stronger

 

360k!!!!!!!! to pp max a comp in all his moves. And also some BP

 

Is this reallllyyyy what you want

 

@Desu @Kyu @otherbaddevs?

Edited by Mnemosyne
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12 minutes ago, Mnemosyne said:

@Kizhaz lmao why would a storyline or shiny hunter care about PP Ups xdxd. Comp players have to PP Up moves a lot.

R2zXHbP.png

 

??? Shiny hunters for this reason obviously. As for story liners, although they can use it to help them out, I was leaning more towards post game as these are somewhat of a post game item. NPC rematches and the occasional events that are hosted would greatly benefit from PP Up's as they are also battle related.

Your 2nd point is moot since I agreed with you.

1 hour ago, Kizhaz said:

It affects all competitive players but also the regular player base with the increased difficulty of PvE.

 

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2 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

R2zXHbP.png

 

??? Shiny hunters for this reason obviously. As for story liners, although they can use it to help them out, I was leaning more towards post game as these are somewhat of a post game item. NPC rematches and the occasional events that are hosted would greatly benefit from PP Up's as they are also battle related.

Your 2nd point is moot since I agreed with you.

 

Thats 1 move. Lol.

 

 

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I did some very basic math and figured that it kinda works after all lol. 

1 Plain Seed costs around 500 yen to produce and 1 Very Seed around 1k. Thats for the Harvesting tools alone. 

If you plant Starf Berries it will cost you around 3k in seeds but will yield 11-13, 12 average so the cost per berry is only 250 yen. That takes the very basic cost of one PP-up to 7.5k yen + that 200bp item. If you use Oran Berries it will cost you a little more, 333 yen per berry and thats total of 10k + 200bp.  

 

This doesn't take in account all of the works that needs to be done, watering these motherfuckers regardless if its in the middle of the night or you have a job you were supposed to show up in. 

I have one question tho, each starf berry sells for 1.3k each in the mart, why would i turn them into PP-ups and sell them if the market price is less than 39k?

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9 hours ago, Mnemosyne said:

Amazing how you have to farm money for like a month to get a comp. Yes I know farming is a thing but this isnt FarmVille lmao.

Amazing how I made ~40 comps, and didn't have to farm a month for it. And in the meantime managed to keep my economy stable, not losing cash. 

 

 

9 hours ago, RysPicz said:

Since this is a competitive game, PP Ups are strictly competitive items, I suggest to put them as items available for Battle Points like they were in ugh, emerald I think, while leaving the crafting method as well. We are just desperate for them and this one, obscure method of obtaining them is not enough.

I wish this was a thing. Give us more stuff worth our BP. 



 

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12 hours ago, Kizhaz said:

R2zXHbP.png

 

??? Shiny hunters for this reason obviously. As for story liners, although they can use it to help them out, I was leaning more towards post game as these are somewhat of a post game item. NPC rematches and the occasional events that are hosted would greatly benefit from PP Up's as they are also battle related.

Your 2nd point is moot since I agreed with you.

 

Sorry Kiz, but this is an absolutely garbage, shit example and I hope you are well aware of it. I'm not even gonna tell you why, I'm more than sure you're smart enough to realise how stupid was this example.

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- PPmax (untradeable) for Battle points. (like ~3k BPs, idk)

 

- Still leave the craftable ones.

 

-It pretty doesnt affect the GTL economy (some people still ll sell them by borrowing pokes to max it, but I doubt it ll fuck the economy cus a huge ammount of Battle Points can be necessary).

 

-People still can farm berries cus they have other utilities

 

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And as of now 04:25 M BST:

 

-0 PP UPS in the GTL (yes 0, absolutely none)

-Cheapest PP MAX: 90k

 

Grats devs and mods and other useless sages.

 

You fill your mouth with resounding phrases like "Balancing economy" and "Encouraging players to participate in the economy" and you SCREW A WHOLE FARMING METHOD overnight with a single update.

 

AND, this is not happening with berries in general because many players still have loads of stock, but we will all see what happens in the next few days. Because, I've been doing berry farming for 1 year and a half and I can tell you I'm not anymore waking up in the morning to plant and water the berries just to get a  ridiculously low profit for it, so I'm done with it for now.

 

I'll buy RP and speculate with them or do GTL flipping instead. So devs, if what you wanted was turning players from participative economy into speculative economy, then YOU GOT IT.

 

I SAID.

On 14/12/2017 at 10:49 PM, Darkshade said:

Since it's only been  3 days since we've patched - It's probably too early to tell.

Eh, you might have wanted to say that it is too early for YOU to admit you screwed it up.

 

18 hours ago, Kizhaz said:

R2zXHbP.png

 

??? Shiny hunters for this reason obviously

Ugh, are you kidding us? So you say shiny hunters care as much as us because they spend 1 PP MAX in their entire life instead of 24 every time we make a team? Serious? ROFLMAO

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I don't get why everyone is quoting my post about sweet scent. It was stated earlier in the thread that only comp players are affected, and shiny hunters was used as one of the examples to which I debunked since every shiny hunter has pp maxed, or at least should have, their Sweet scent Pokemon. I could go on and list every utility move such as Thief/Covet, Trick, multi-target moves for killing hordes, but I didn't feel the need to as they weren't brought up and more importantly, and I can not stress this enough, this topic was not about the debate of "Who does this affect more". My post still stands as not only Comp players are affected, I've already stated that all of them are, and will even add on they are affected the most if it makes people happy, but this change affects the entire community and should be treated as such. ie no more "devs are screwing us comp players more and more"

 

Back to the main point of the thread, I believe with all the commotion about it this will have a close eye on it to fix anything that may have been to drastic a change. It is still too early to see these changes as there are still overpriced berries from pre update, which I would assume is why there are no pp up in the GTL rn

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The problem is that PvE players aren't affected to as large an extent as comp players are. PvE players probably have one or two pokemon that utilize sweet scent, trick, thief, moves to hit all hordes (not sure why they would need this) and therefore require atmost 4 pp maxes overall.  PvE players don't have to invest the same amount of money that a comp player does either. Just look at all those ppl posting their caught shinies in the thread, and you'll see them all having 10m+ while the casual comp player struggles to stay above 2m. A particular team of a comp player requires minimum of 6 pp maxes, and keep in mind that this is just for one team. I just looked at the GTL, and there is only one pp up available for 37k.  While we can craft PP Ups, it's just getting too grindy because you end up spending more $$$ for an alternative means to obtain an item (like BP or Berry Powder) rather than just providing straight up cash. Everything is getting expensive because certain move tutors like roost are available through BP only, which means you pay 200k alone for a non pp maxed move.

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3 hours ago, Kizhaz said:

It is still too early to see these changes as there are still overpriced berries from pre update, which I would assume is why there are no pp up in the GTL rn

The only argument in favour of lower future berry prices would be a larger supply.


At the same time there are several arguments against it:

- there is now a minimum price for berries offered by the Pokémarts, so berry prices in GTL can't go below that point

- Harvesting Tool prices were increased by 40%

- Seed payout per berry was reduced by 20%
- the most Berry yields have been reduced by 1 berry

- time for farming berries was slightly increased for anyone using Unova as the Wailmer Pail is missing

So why are berries from pre update possibly overpriced? I believe it is more likely they are still below the future market price, as production costs for those were still lower than for berries grown post update.
Given the risen effort - why would one person be willing to plant more or more people willing to start berry farming if the payout would be lower/ if prices for berries were about to fall?

Finally,

- each berry now gives not more than 1 Berry Powder
being another drive for berry powder price to increase.


Despite me being one of the players that don't need PP Maxes (NikhilR estimate might be right, I may have used about 4 in the last 4 years here) I am still able to see that this is a problem. Maybe reduce the amount of berry powder needed for PP Up/Max by half or remove the berry powder requirement for those items at all and add another white herb instead.
 

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On 15.12.2017 at 9:41 AM, Kizhaz said:

There are other options to make money other than beating trainers, if you don't wish to do them that's hardly the fault of anyone other than yourself. You could do as little as catch wild pokemon and sell on the GTL even, every penny counts

 

The problem I have with this is, they are all kind of LUCK based. U can spend hours and a dozens of pokeballs/Thief/Covet WITHOUT finding sth, that's worth the time investment. 

The point of "evey penny counts" made me break out in loud laughter, since EVERY non-rebattle method DOES COST MONEY u have to invest beforehand.

So u have to invest in something, which is NOT guaranteed to work out. 

 

 

 

Amazing how I made ~40 comps, and didn't have to farm a month for it. And in the meantime managed to keep my economy stable, not losing cash. 

Teach me senpai please, no better teach all of us - u seem to have a secret technique - so everyone is happy *sarcasm end*

 

 

 

 

I know pokemmo is NOT a battle simulator and that's fine, but grinding (while here are sooo many things to grind... money, breeders, money, items, money, bp and last but not least - money) should at least be worth and in some points at least a tinyyyyyy littttle bit rewarding.  Also, I don't want to use my whole (limited) time which I spend in pokemmo for grinding. 

 

 

So, ontopic, please show your goodwill and make pp max more easy to obtain (as mentioned anywhere in this topic - x BP and untradable) - to show the support of your longtime (mostly pvp) playerbase <3

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3 minutes ago, semjon said:

Teach me senpai please, no better teach all of us - u seem to have a secret technique - so everyone is happy *sarcasm end*

Start by playing the actual game instead of crying about prices. Farming is not the only way to make cash, nor is buying RP. I rarely do any farming, never bought RP. Now think about that.

 

4 minutes ago, semjon said:

while here are sooo many things to grind... money, breeders, money, items, money, bp and last but not least - money

this is actually little compared to most mmo games nowadays, take for example guild wars2, in which for each class you need different gear, and for each class there's multiple gear sets that you use depending on activity, in which also, you're better off having all classes ready, than only playing one. And tbh, you just need to farm 1 of them to have the others, as you do in most mmos, all of those are easy trade coins.
 

 

4 minutes ago, semjon said:

, I don't want to use my whole (limited) time

It's a mmo, it requires dedication, at least a bit of it. You're not asked to play 24/7, but at least spend sometime on it.


I do understand the concern about PP UP/MAX and I wish they'd either revert, or remake the crafting proccess or material requirements. Especially cause now there's not a single even in GTL, and also you can't get them through alt runs like a lot of people used to. The idea of crafting would be fine, but should not be tied to berries, instead tie it to items from pick up etc, and don't place major items in it.

Also, untradable PP UP/MAX for 3~9k BP, wouldn't harm to much would it? It's still a good amount of BP, and competitive people will most likely buy them, in the end is a win win situation, you control one currency, and you get competitive people happy.

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39 minutes ago, redspawn said:

Start by playing the actual game instead of crying about prices. Farming is not the only way to make cash, nor is buying RP. I rarely do any farming, never bought RP. Now think about that.

I do play the game ;) with all its positive sides and all flaws, since 1013 ._.

39 minutes ago, redspawn said:

this is actually little compared to most mmo games nowadays, take for example guild wars2, in which for each class you need different gear

Different movesets/abilites/Moves/Natures -> so its actually not "little, compared to most mmo games" - even more, if u look at all tiers... so *pssscht*pokemmo is at the top of grindmmo*psssscht*

 

39 minutes ago, redspawn said:

It's a mmo, it requires dedication, at least a bit of it. You're not asked to play 24/7, but at least spend sometime on it.

I am playing this game since 2013, so don't tell me to dedicate time to this game bro ;)

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20 minutes ago, semjon said:

I do play the game ;) with all its positive sides and all flaws, since 1013 ._.

That was really the dark age of PokeMMO  XD

On topic: I don't see why PP UP/Max that would be obtained only via BPs would need to be untradeable
It would affect the economoy in any case, since - as we all said - comp player are the main customers and would provide more of the supply themselves anyway thus lowering demand for any other PP UP/Max...

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10 hours ago, semjon said:

Different movesets/abilites/Moves/Natures -> so its actually not "little, compared to most mmo games" - even more, if u look at all tiers... so *pssscht*pokemmo is at the top of grindmmo*psssscht*

You don't seem to understand how much depth. Also, 2013 is also pretty much when I started, never really had much problems economy wise. Especially now, with only 2 functional tiers, OU and UU. Doubles isn't very functional without the required moves etc, so you shouldn't prioritize those pokemons unless you really want to, NU is a mess.

 

10 hours ago, semjon said:

I am playing this game since 2013, so don't tell me to dedicate time to this game bro ;)

If you log in 15 mins per day, you're not dedicated, saying I play since, means nothing. Heck my 3.5k hours total between the 2 chars I use, are nothing compared to some, and this is mostly AFK hours. I'm also from 2013, definitely not the most dedicated player. But the time I'm active, I invest, either in flipping, berry farming which takes ~10 mins per char in hoenn, previously alt running, etc. No money problem at all as long as you play smart with what you have in hands.

Lets avoid derailing this thread now tho.

 

Edited by redspawn
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