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OU Viability Thread


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On 14/12/2017 at 9:54 AM, Kimikozen said:

Mantine B- / B tier

ive been using a haze/scald/defog/roost mantine since the  patch and it's done pretty solid. It counters Volcarona, is a nice answer to rain, and is in general just a pretty good special blanket. But the reason why it's not higher is that dreadful SR weakness and I've found that as a bulky water, it can't keep up with the large amount of physical attackers in the tier. I think it could get better as time goes on but right now I'd place it Low b.

 

edit: you guys should try it. It can do some pretty cool niche thingsbwith some speed too, like countering scizor and Hazing BD azumarill. Also, a bunch of shit like Ttar doesn't appreciate switching in to scald because of that high burn chance. This mon is pesky, but it is not a throw on every team mon. It fits well on teams as a piece of a good defensive core. I like ferro/mantine, ttar mantine, and mantine/magnezone.

Is Calm or Bold better nature for mantine wall? I had never tested it and i had always that doubt.

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On 12/25/2017 at 10:16 PM, soyhector said:

Is Calm or Bold better nature for mantine wall? I had never tested it and i had always that doubt.

I suggest adamant nature, it helps for some key knockouts. 

252+ Atk Mantine Wing Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 136-168 (100 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO - thats fucking production right there. if your mantine cant kill breloom then idk why u run it. just my opinion tho

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18 hours ago, Kimikozen said:

I suggest adamant nature, it helps for some key knockouts. 

252+ Atk Mantine Wing Attack vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Breloom: 136-168 (100 - 123.5%) -- guaranteed OHKO - thats fucking production right there. if your mantine cant kill breloom then idk why u run it. just my opinion tho

looks like someone ate a clown for breakfast

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  • 1 month later...

S tier:

Conkelldurr

Reuniclus

 

A+ tier:

Hydreigon

Tyranitar

Scizor

Ferrothorn

Volcarona

Dugtrio/Wobbuffett (Not sure where to put trappers. I think they are broken, but in an uncompetitive way. I don't think they are insanely overwhelming or anything so I'll just throw them in A+)

 

A tier:

Magnezone

Mamoswine

Pelipper

Gengar

Cloyster

Milotic

Skarmory

Mantine 

Gliscor (not too sure about this, imo its A- but it has the super nice niche of defog)

Hippowdon (Honestly could go A+ with this one, but I'd argue too passive even though its nice blanket check for everything)

 

A- tier:

Dragonite

Starmie

Excadrill

Lucario

Blissey

Excadrill

Jellicent

Mienshao

 

B+ tier:

Gyarados

Kabutops

Breloom

Salamence

Metagross

Azumarill

 

B tier:

Darmanitan (From usage, people think this is around A- or B+, but I think this thing is pretty awful)

Kingdra

Tentacruel

Weavile

Swampert

Chandelure

Haxorus

Jolteon

Bronzong

 

B- tier:

Bisharp 

Togekiss

Torkoal

Arcanine

Forretress

Roserade

Porygon Z 

 

C tier:

Chansey

 

Thoughts? I feel like my list might be too top heavy, and I probably left out a few things. Not too sure how to rank trappers. Also not sure if there should be an S tier, but I feel like conkelldurr and reuniclus need to have multiple checks/counters in every single team build and are extremely threatening to most teams rn. I assumed some things would be working again shortly like regen for Mienshao.

Edited by Kimikozen
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3 minutes ago, Kimikozen said:

Dugtrio

dutrio is legit S tier man. Wobb meh I have mixed feelings, although he's great aswell. I'd lower breloom and kingdra on that list, and get tentacruel higher and kabutops, kabutops although outside of rain isn't exactly stellar, on a rain team he's a awesome wallbreaker, and you can carry night slash, superpower, waterfall, plenty of viable moves imo. Darmanitan isn't awful, he isn't exactly top tier either, but very usable.

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28 minutes ago, redspawn said:

dutrio is legit S tier man. Wobb meh I have mixed feelings, although he's great aswell. I'd lower breloom and kingdra on that list, and get tentacruel higher and kabutops, kabutops although outside of rain isn't exactly stellar, on a rain team he's a awesome wallbreaker, and you can carry night slash, superpower, waterfall, plenty of viable moves imo. Darmanitan isn't awful, he isn't exactly top tier either, but very usable.

I like kabutops at B+, it needs support, but if it has it, it can a big threat. I agree with Kingdra, I'd probably throw it in B after thinking about it. I think so many mantine,Ferro,bliss,Milo running around for it to be higher. I like Breloom where it is, not much counters to it right now because you can just spore whatever. It's in a bad speed tier rn, but spore is just too nice. Only other common viable Grass that can absorb spore is ferro, and that can be super powered. Tenta is in a weird spot right now, it counters Volc decently, but no reliable recover just really sucks for it. Defog > rapid in most scenarios so Tentas utility is less. Tspikes again are not as good in a defog meta but they are pretty damn nice for teams that rely on things like Milo/Hippo. It is has basically no offensive presence without scale burns. I'd say B is fine.

 

and for Darmanitan I agree its really not all that bad but I think it's way overrated. Rocks are just so common, as are hippo/milo. Even if you catch them with U-turn, stealth rocks and flare blitz recoil will just kill you so fast. I think B or arguably B+ is ok. 

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13 hours ago, Kimikozen said:

S tier:

Conkelldurr - Agreed.

Reuniclus - Agreed.

 

A+ tier:

Hydreigon - Might be even S.

Tyranitar - Agreed.

Scizor - Agreed.

Ferrothorn - Agreed. 

Volcarona - Agreed.

Dugtrio/Wobbuffett (Not sure where to put trappers. I think they are broken, but in an uncompetitive way. I don't think they are insanely overwhelming or anything so I'll just throw them in A+) - I think I'm gonna put Wobbu at B and not list Dugtrio as of now.

 

A tier:

Magnezone - Agreed.

Mamoswine - Agreed, could be even A+ considering how impossible it is to wall.

Pelipper - I think A tier is more for Pokemon that you can slap for every team and them being good, B tier is more for specific support. But what comes to support, I mean, Pelipper is one and only. I'd probably put it B+ the way I understand rankings.

Gengar - Agreed.

Cloyster - I used to estimate Cloyster being really threatening but I have to admit it isn't as strong as I imagined to be. I think A- is the highest I would put it for now.

Milotic - From UU to A rank OU mon? The stupidest part is that I kinda even... have to agree with you. Well, A might be slightly too high but Milotic is THE best blanket wall in OU tier. That alone gives it B+ at the very least but considering it is a bit a momentum killer mon I wouldn't see it higher than A-.

Skarmory - Agreed.

Mantine - B+ most imo. Great Defogger but faces competition at this slot.

Gliscor (not too sure about this, imo its A- but it has the super nice niche of defog) - I agree it's A- rather. Maybe B+ but not against this.

Hippowdon (Honestly could go A+ with this one, but I'd argue too passive even though its nice blanket check for everything) - A seems fine for me.

 

A- tier:

Dragonite - Agreed.

Starmie - A bit too high. Jellicent prevents it doing reliably its main niche and that is Rapid Spinning. I think every good defensive team should use Jellicent as their spinblocker and that limits Starmie a lot. Starmie is B for me.

Excadrill - Possibly even A+ since Tyranitar is a mon you can slap in every team so it's not you need to particularly bend your team to fit a Sand Stream mon. Scariest late game mon there is. 

Lucario - Agreed.

Blissey - Agreed.

Jellicent - Agreed.

Mienshao - B+ imo. Needs a bit of team support (bulky switch-ins to U-turn) as well as being prone to priority and all of that. Also doesn't always sweep that effortlessly, so A seems a bit too high.

 

B+ tier:

Gyarados - Could be even A.

Kabutops - Agreed.

Breloom - Sure.

Salamence - Rankings Salamence anything under A seems just weird. I get what the reasoning, it honestly isn't the best dragon but.... It's just way too threatening sweeper to be at B tier. I'd say A-.

Metagross - Agreed. 

Azumarill - Agreed.

 

B tier:

Darmanitan (From usage, people think this is around A- or B+, but I think this thing is pretty awful) - Agreed.

Kingdra - Agreed.

Tentacruel - Agreed.

Weavile - C imo. From a selection of seemingly powerful class cannons, Weavile seems to underperform a bit as it gets walled pretty easily. Sure, it's a nice Pursuit trapper buuutt... Tyranitar and Scizor does it better.

Swampert - Honestly, sure.

Chandelure - Agreed.

Haxorus - One of the raw wallbreakers in OU, therefor B seems a bit underselling Haxorus too much. However, it is notably less used than other Dragons so B+ seems fair for me.

Jolteon - Agreed.

Bronzong - Agreed.

 

B- tier:

Bisharp - Agreed.

Togekiss - Agreed.

Torkoal - I think Torkoal is pretty bad. C+ at most.

Arcanine - Agreed.

Forretress - Agreed.

Roserade - Agreed.

Porygon Z  - Agreed.

 

C tier:

Chansey

 

Thoughts? I feel like my list might be too top heavy, and I probably left out a few things. Not too sure how to rank trappers. Also not sure if there should be an S tier, but I feel like conkelldurr and reuniclus need to have multiple checks/counters in every single team build and are extremely threatening to most teams rn. I assumed some things would be working again shortly like regen for Mienshao.

My takes on these ones. Damn I almost forgot this thread existed. Guess I could set up some initial rankings.

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12 minutes ago, Maelstrom said:

What about the new fossil mons?

Hm Archeops has pretty good stats but I dont think it will be usefull in OU because of its awfull ability. Also being weak to rocks making it pretty easy to get <50%.

 

4 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

Alright, finally added preliminary ranks. I'll emphasize that nothing is set in stone and feel free to argue regarding any Pokemon's place in any viability ranking and if you're convincing enough I will change ranks with pleasure as the metagame develops.

I kinda agree but I do think Hydreigon and Volcarona are too high. 

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1 minute ago, Mnemosyne said:

I kinda agree but I do think Hydreigon and Volcarona are too high. 

I think Hydreigon at this point is not only a top tier sweeper but near impossible to fully wall. Ironically its main counter is a projected UU Pokemon - Milotic. Now, I'm not saying that Hydreigon is the reason why Milotic has 15% usage but... it's part of the reason. If there are more hard counters to Hydreigon, I'd honestly want to know. And Hydreigon also isn't any typical glass cannon one dimensional sweeper. Its typing and 600 BST actually allows it to be switched in to various attacks if needed. It's as complete sweeper as it gets, as far as I see.

 

I think Volcarona is A+ because it has edge over the largest number of Pokemon in the OU tier and can set up so easily in so many occasions. The only drawback is that it's hard walled by Blissey and Sp. Def Tyranitar and everyone are using these Pokemon to keep Volcarona in check. Good players are so dedicated in countering this Pokemon so it doesn't seem to overperform in battle but when building a team I think Volcarona is probably the first Pokemon to consider that how will you counter it.

 

But feel free to add your own reasoning why you disagree with their rankings.

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Roserade for B+

I've been trying to make hyper offense work and I always felt I was always one hit or two away from taking down stuff. I wished there was an offensive Spiker akin to Greninja in future gens that would force a lot of switches and while this Pokemon doesn't force as many switches as Narutoad it does the job quite nicely as well.

In a tier where everyone has a bulky water like Milotic, Jellicent or Mantine in their teams as well as a Hippowdon to cover their electric weaknesses, Roserade puts in some work by switching in on Scalds, Will-o-Wisps or recovery moves and immediately threatening them away in order to lay some spikes. Leaf Storm deals some insane damage even to resists, and Sleep Powder can gain momentum against Pokemon that can take a Leaf Storm and recover the damage or use -2 Rose as a set up fodder, as well as denying defoggers the ability to remove hazards.

This is of course fully offensive rose, the defensive set is probably much worse than just using a Ferrothorn and should probably stick just to UU (Also make sure you don't accidentally sign up with your defensive rose to a tournament and get first rounded because it was the wrong one) and make sure you aren't using Toxic Spikes, because every time I see that happening it ends up with a Conkeldurr getting a Guts boost and demolishing everything.

 

 

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Because Snorlax and Weezing have reached now OU usage, I felt like I have to move them up at least to B- for now. You can obviously argue if you feel like they should be higher (or lower).

 

Also added some UU mons that could have some use in the OU tier, mostly to various C-ranks. In addition added a few Pokemon for a possible (yet not very effective) sun team archetype.

 

Edited by OrangeManiac
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