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Dinkle

Disable Tourney Spectate

Question

Dinkle   

I don't know if i am alone on this but it seems some people will scope out peoples games before their match starts (in tournaments) to alter their teams (probably because they suck kek >:V).

 

Let me give you an example, say i am about to fight "BOB" (i know this because you can check the ladder) i can use the active tournament feature to spectate BOBs last game or i could get my friend to watch it for me (so they can let u no everything they have) and find out he has 6 pokes and the only move they have is tackle (a normal move), i could build my team around this and create something that consists of 6 ghost pokemon (broken right?).

 

It is pretty hard to miss this when your opponent takes 9 mins to ready up.... for every game. And then when it finally starts his team is a perfect counter to his opponents.

 

There is a multitude of things the devs could do to prevent this such as:

 

•Disabling spectate whilst the tourney is active and enable it when its over.

•Some people will want to spectate their friends battle so, we could have a new feature where you right click your friend and you get a option "invite to spectate" (which would most likely need to come up with a box to your opponent and they have to allow your friend to spectate to avoid any "scoping").  ///

 •Allow people to still select spectate but their request will have to be approved by both parties before they can join.   ///

•Hide peoples names on the list of people in the tourney at that time, this way people who just scope peoples teams don't have a unfair advantage by remembering their next opponent only uses 6 pokemon that are all weak to grass.

•Your team is locked in from the start so you can't get a insane advantage, people could still scout your sets but it isn't nearly as bad as them countering your whole team.

 

For the points marked with "///" at the end, we would need a separate feature to auto decline spectate requests just incase people decided to spam the hell out of someone in order to make them loose the game.

 

I really hope this happens because i can't see how it is justifiable, everyone who i have spoke to thinks they need to fix this as it as practically cheating in a sense, and PvP is meant to require skill not knowing how to cheat.

Edited by Dinkle
BOONK GANG

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there is litterally no way to stop scouting, people will always somehow be able to do it, and that thing u said about unfair advantage, both players can scout eachother, sonothing unfair there. alot of interest would also be lost of they took away the spectator feature, whats the fun when you cant show off to friends. imo let it stay as is.

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Dinkle   
33 minutes ago, GeneralVenican said:

both players can scout eachother

You shouldn't have to scout eachother to be able to compete, it makes no sense.

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The idea is to have 6 versatile pokes in your team. So even if they know what pokes you have it doesn't matter. How do you think the top pvp'ers stay on top? Pretty much everyone knows the pokemon they mostly use,  but that doesn't stop them from destroying everyone 80% of time. 

 

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29 minutes ago, Dinkle said:

You shouldn't have to scout eachother to be able to compete, it makes no sense.

 

is it not a battleskill to observe a opponents playstyle and adapt? both players can do so how is it cheating?

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Dinkle   
1 minute ago, GeneralVenican said:

both players can do so how is it cheating?

Just because everyone that plays call of duty can install a mod menu does not justify 1 person doing it.

 

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So let's just encourage scouting and then everyone is going to wait 9 minutes in between each game and a tournament will drag on for more than twice as long.

 

Seems legit. JAJAJA.

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gbwead   

I don't mind scouting since it's inevitable if we want spectators, but what bothers me is how the spectating mechanic encourages players to counter team in an mmo where ressources are limited. The best player often becomes the one that has the most comps; that's pretty shitty and quite unfair for new players. I would love if players had to lock their team before the tournament and were not allowed to change their mons between rounds.

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Just now, gbwead said:

I would love if players had to lock their team before the tournament and were not allowed to change their mons between rounds.

Seems like the most logical thing to do.

 

As of now, it's basically just keep stalling and stalling so others are 2 rounds ahead of you (seriously), then design your team to counter theirs.

 

It'd be like playing poker and being told what cards your opponent has before you decide what hand to go for and bet.

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Boxers go to the matches of their future opponents and watch their old matches to learn their techniques. This happens all the time in pro boxing.

It really shouldn't matter if they know your team. Its all about how well you battle. 

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Opte   
4 minutes ago, sephiroth1977 said:

Boxers go to the matches of their future opponents and watch their old matches to learn their techniques. This happens all the time in pro boxing.

It really shouldn't matter if they know your team. Its all about how well you battle. 

Yeah, but the boxer won't go and tell his buddy: "fight this match instead of me, you counter his style more than me".

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Best way to deal with this issue is simply have 2 comps benched and swap and change your team up whenever you get the opportunity. This gives you a advantage over a scout and we get to keep "spectate"

Its fun to spectate battles and by changing the way it works could take away from its brilliance. 

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Dinkle   
2 minutes ago, EssDeeCee said:

Locked roster of 8-9 pokes

I think it should be 6 but still a valid suggestion.

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Tyrone   
33 minutes ago, gbwead said:

I don't mind scouting since it's inevitable if we want spectators, but what bothers me is how the spectating mechanic encourages players to counter team in an mmo where ressources are limited. The best player often becomes the one that has the most comps; that's pretty shitty and quite unfair for new players. I would love if players had to lock their team before the tournament and were not allowed to change their mons between rounds.

Hits the nail on the head.

Due to the short time after update and amount of effort required, most players do not have sufficient comps to build multiple teams yet.

Players who have access to a big amount of comps always will have an advantage over players who dont in an mmo like this. 

 

It's a trade-off between mmo aspect and competitiveness of the game. Difficult to balance, undoubtly.

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FNTCZ   
13 hours ago, GeneralVenican said:

there is litterally no way to stop scouting

No lol, there is actually a very easy fix:

 

Shuffle the bracket after every round. thats it. done and no more scouting in officials

 

12 hours ago, Tyrone said:

Hits the nail on the head.

Due to the short time after update and amount of effort required, most players do not have sufficient comps to build multiple teams yet.

Players who have access to a big amount of comps always will have an advantage over players who dont in an mmo like this. 

 

It's a trade-off between mmo aspect and competitiveness of the game. Difficult to balance, undoubtly.

why dont we just bracket shuffle? keeps it competitive (since the brackets were randomly generated on the first place) and no problems to spectators and no problems to the mmo/pve/whatever communy/sense of the game.

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gbwead   
3 minutes ago, FNTCZ said:

why dont we just bracket shuffle? keeps it competitive (since the brackets were randomly generated on the first place) and no problems to spectators and no problems to the mmo/pve/whatever communy/sense of the game.

I remember a tournament beeing hosted that way before. It looked pretty cool.

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FunkPk   
53 minutes ago, GeneralVenican said:

there is litterally no way to stop scouting, people will always somehow be able to do it

Sure people will find new ways of scouting but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to stop it. It doesn't seem fair for people that may only have one team, but I don't like the idea of not being able to spectate. It seems like the best option here is to lock teams before the tournament starts. With this people could still scout for items/moves without being able to completely counter team someone.

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Opte   

Well either locking your team at the start and not being able to change pokemon or shuffling the bracket each round would be good. 

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RysPicz   

Making the bracket blind so people won't know who they are fighting next might help- obviously it stops working at the very last rounds but it sure it limiting the scouting quite a lot. Good luck scouting 128 men bracket, 64 fights kek

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ORBFLUX   

Hahahahaha how the duck is scouting real Hahahaha man just change your team like man close your eyes haha 

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Dinkle   
1 minute ago, ORBFLUX said:

Hahahahaha how the duck is scouting real Hahahaha man just change your team like man close your eyes haha 

Shouldn't have to swap your team every match 

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pachima   

The point here is not to disable scout, but to reduce it to a competitive extent, which is a fairly difference imo. Yes, there will always be scout in this game, but so far, the way officials are done almost encourage people to scout. I have played this game enough to understand how of a change this creates in one people´s teambuilding set, which is far from healthy. In one stance, where reducing scout had a lot of hinders for the game, I would understand, but I barely see any negatives to the shuffling option, besides maybe some coding, if any.

You can argue that shuffling doesn´t fix late rounds, but at least the players you would see reaching there with such system are the ones that actually deserve to, and not the ones with a bigger active team, or the most resources. I can understand this is a mmo, and such differences should exist, but not to this extent. Actually, having more comps without any scout is already a big advantage compared to someone who is barely new to the competitive scene. We shouldn´t create a larger gap which unfortunately, is whats happening.

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13 hours ago, Opte said:

Yeah, but the boxer won't go and tell his buddy: "fight this match instead of me, you counter his style more than me".

This sounds like account sharing, which is not allowed. Please report suspected instances of account sharing so that a GM or SGM can take appropriate action.

 

 

As for the suggestion, disabling spectate would kill off a social aspect of the game. The idea of a battle box would, at least in theory, greatly reduce the impact of scouting. Limiting it so you can have a couple extra wouldn't change much at all. If you can only change a couple team members then you could build teams that are more versatile for different rounds. I do agree that the current state heavily favors players who have amassed a lot of resources though. That is, at least in my opinion, where the focus should be to fix this.

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Dinkle   
2 minutes ago, XelaKebert said:

This sounds like account sharing, which is not allowed. Please report suspected instances of account sharing so that a GM or SGM can take appropriate action.

 

 

As for the suggestion, disabling spectate would kill off a social aspect of the game. The idea of a battle box would, at least in theory, greatly reduce the impact of scouting. Limiting it so you can have a couple extra wouldn't change much at all. If you can only change a couple team members then you could build teams that are more versatile for different rounds. I do agree that the current state heavily favors players who have amassed a lot of resources though. That is, at least in my opinion, where the focus should be to fix this.

I think the "blind ladder" seemed like a decent alternative (where you wont be able to see who is fighting who until the battle starts), even making it so people who are competing cannot spectate would help out a little bit.

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