Obtaining Hidden Abilities

[Senile]

59 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

Out of all those, Magneton and maybe Hitmonlee are the only 2 that benefit from their HA. So no all your  years of hard work are not wasted, not that they would be anyway since if you've been using them now how can they be wasted?

Well, Analytic Starmie is pretty good, and Sheer Force is necessary on Tauros, but most of these pokemon (other than Tauros) are still viable without Hidden Abilities, so it's a moot point.

[Raichuforyou]

#AbilityPillForRareLotteryReward

[razimove]

1 hour ago, Darkshade said:

Why not use them for the breeds required for obtaining a Hidden Ability?

Because its dumb. Once again, and don't even come up with the ''the game has to move on, you need to adapt to it'', cause no, the game doens't need to move on. HA don't need to be released that way, you guys are just enforcing that idea.

I'm starting to think Xatu is Kyu's alt honestly. Provide solutions, not problems, like someone said, you're selling a service to the costumers, costumers need to be like :)))))) not :((((((, is that easy enough to understand? 

HA will change metagame, therefor they are required, people who have 50+ comps, will require millions to fix them, so what, are we supposed to just save lets say 20 million waiting for an update that might not even happen cause giving a ETA is something non existent in this brilliant team? 

First you rush unova on halloween, then it appears nothing is working in unova, not even move tutors or important moves, not to mention new gen abilities. Now this? Come on, play the game as a player, like us, so you know what grinding is, what you're doing to the economy and if what you're doing is good or not, instead of acting all mighty as you're viewing this as a 3rd person instead of actually playing your game. 

[Risadex]

1 hour ago, Senile said:

Well, Analytic Starmie is pretty good, and Sheer Force is necessary on Tauros, but most of these pokemon (other than Tauros) are still viable without Hidden Abilities, so it's a moot point.

About low tiers...

 

Defiant Braviary is pretty good too

[Otulp]

30 minutes ago, Risadex said:

About low tiers...

 

Defiant Braviary is pretty good too

This. Lower tier players exist too.

[Kyu]

3 hours ago, redspawn said:

Because its dumb. Once again, and don't even come up with the ''the game has to move on, you need to adapt to it'', cause no, the game doens't need to move on. HA don't need to be released that way, you guys are just enforcing that idea.

I'm starting to think Xatu is Kyu's alt honestly. Provide solutions, not problems, like someone said, you're selling a service to the costumers, costumers need to be like :)))))) not :((((((, is that easy enough to understand? 

HA will change metagame, therefor they are required, people who have 50+ comps, will require millions to fix them, so what, are we supposed to just save lets say 20 million waiting for an update that might not even happen cause giving a ETA is something non existent in this brilliant team? 

First you rush unova on halloween, then it appears nothing is working in unova, not even move tutors or important moves, not to mention new gen abilities. Now this? Come on, play the game as a player, like us, so you know what grinding is, what you're doing to the economy and if what you're doing is good or not, instead of acting all mighty as you're viewing this as a 3rd person instead of actually playing your game. 

I don't think that HAs are "not a problem", I just don't think that a direct upgrade from a comp to an HA is the proper way to handle the issue. I think ideas like:

 

13 hours ago, gbwead said:

if I had the option to purchase breeding braces or tms with battle points instead of pokeyen, I would nearly always choose to pay with battle points since I have little interest in battling npcs, trading on the GTL or offering breeding/eving/xping services to others

are a much better way to approach the problem of comp creation being too tedious, because it allows older PvP players to convert their PvP wins into something usable for the new metagame, and for future metagames.

 

I don't want to provide free upgrades to existing comps because I don't think most of them need it. Many species are viable without HAs (@Senile feel free to yell at me if I'm wrong), and although some of them are outclassed by their HA variants, players can still carry over their work through IV inheritance. I don't think it's good for the economy either, since it removes a sink of a breeder when players "upgrade" through a non-traditional path, and a direct NPC upgrade/item removes player interactivity via the GTL.

 

I think that the majority of problems in this thread stem from the idea of rebreeding, and how tedious the process of breeding is, not from the idea of HAs. If that's the case, then I'd rather just make breeding easier, because then we don't have to create weird shortcuts for old players, and it allows opportunities for new players to get involved in a competitive scene which already requires an immense amount of knowledge/time to master.

 

That's why I don't take threads like this at face value; typically they represent a more underlying problem to the game, which players don't always understand how to fix. I'm not ignoring the problem, but the question which I posed earlier, being:

 

14 hours ago, Kyu said:

On the topic of "grinding" new comps:

 

Is the issue that the game's money systems are stingy, and that there isn't much variety in money gaining methods, or are you taking issue with the idea that new things are being released?

 

A lot of people seem to be mad about HAs because they'll have to make something from scratch, and while I agree that it's not fun to have your work invalidated, is the idea of a game where none of the "gear" ever changes really better? Most of the people prior to Gen 5's release seemed to agree that the game was stale, and if we're going to be stuck with Gen 5 for the next 5 years (or so), I don't think we should rush their release.

 

To be able to release something new every few months is, in my opinion, one of the boons of HAs, and I think staggering their releases is the best way to do it when we have a hard, finite set of content which we can release due to the limitations of B/W as a ROM requirement. I don't think that being able to upgrade existing comps to an HA is necessary if we introduce them slowly, and continue to work on making money generation less painful.

is what directs the process of how the problem is fixed. If players can gain more money, and they can gain breeding consumables through alternative methods which are more fun, does this cease to be a problem? How does this "shortcut" affect the rest of our plans, and do we need to re-evaluate our dungeon reward schemes? How does this affect the longevity of the game? are all questions which I ask when something dramatic like this comes up.

 

If it's still an issue when we get there, we'll make it better. But for now, because we haven't even finalized the methods of gaining HAs, and we don't know what the game's money/breeding situation is going to look like by the time we get there, and when, realistically, it's a minimum of "3-4 months" away, I'm really not going to care about HA details. I'd rather tackle the problems of breeding.

Edited December 4, 2017 by Kyu

[Eggplant]

1 minute ago, Kyu said:

I think that the majority of problems in this thread stem from the idea of rebreeding, and how tedious the process of breeding is, not from the idea of HAs. If that's the case, then I'd rather just make breeding easier, because then we don't have to create weird shortcuts for old players, and it allows opportunities for new players to get involved in a competitive scene which already requires an immense amount of knowledge/time to master.

Agreed. I had a conversation like this earlier today.

Consensus was that old comps are annoying to use as a resource because you lose EVs, exp, maybe some moves (not too sure), and it's especially difficult to rebreed genderless comps.

an ev inheritance of some sort may fix one of the two problems

[SodaNaranja]

49 minutes ago, Eggplant said:

Agreed. I had a conversation like this earlier today.

Consensus was that old comps are annoying to use as a resource because you lose EVs, exp, maybe some moves (not too sure), and it's especially difficult to rebreed genderless comps.

an ev inheritance of some sort may fix one of the two problems

Items such as Destiny Knot would be a way of making the breeding easier, a super rare drop at dungeons wouldn't mind me.

[epicdavenport]

@Kyu Feel free to shoot it down as hard as you want but what about a type of unlock system? All hidden abilities are locked until you capture the poke you want in the dungeon with the ability, then you are free to use ability pills for that pokemon in the future. Feel like that's worded so I'll provide a example.

Example: You want a drizzle politoed, you go into the dungeon and catch a politoed with drizzle. Now for every politoed you have you can use an ability pill to get drizzle. 

I know there's a lot wrong with the idea I'm just throwing it out there.

[Kizhaz]

8 hours ago, Senile said:

Well, Analytic Starmie is pretty good, and Sheer Force is necessary on Tauros, but most of these pokemon (other than Tauros) are still viable without Hidden Abilities, so it's a moot point.

I swear I wrote Tauros, mb. As for Starmie, I still believe NC to be the better ability, but Analytic is useful against scarf and when the opponent switches ai suppose.

7 hours ago, redspawn said:

Because its dumb. Once again, and don't even come up with the ''the game has to move on, you need to adapt to it'', cause no, the game doens't need to move on. HA don't need to be released that way, you guys are just enforcing that idea.

I'm starting to think Xatu is Kyu's alt honestly. Provide solutions, not problems, like someone said, you're selling a service to the costumers, costumers need to be like :)))))) not :((((((, is that easy enough to understand? 

HA will change metagame, therefor they are required, people who have 50+ comps, will require millions to fix them, so what, are we supposed to just save lets say 20 million waiting for an update that might not even happen cause giving a ETA is something non existent in this brilliant team? 

First you rush unova on halloween, then it appears nothing is working in unova, not even move tutors or important moves, not to mention new gen abilities. Now this? Come on, play the game as a player, like us, so you know what grinding is, what you're doing to the economy and if what you're doing is good or not, instead of acting all mighty as you're viewing this as a 3rd person instead of actually playing your game. 

"The game doesn't need to move on" already starting with a false statement. Every game eventually has to make changes to keep their player base. As for forcing this method of obtaining HA, is that not what this thread is for? We're not forcing anything.

 

Same could be said back when breeding was changed to the refinement method, we had daily complaints about it. But now it's considered a great way to make Pokemon across majority of the playerbase.

 

Not every Pokemon benefits or even has a HA. Even beyond that point, some Pokemon still benefit from their regular ability just as much as their HA. So no most mons won't need "fixing"

 

I do play this game as a player, and I'm fairly happy with this idea soooo...

 

1 hour ago, epicdavenport said:

@Kyu Feel free to shoot it down as hard as you want but what about a type of unlock system? All hidden abilities are locked until you capture the poke you want in the dungeon with the ability, then you are free to use ability pills for that pokemon in the future. Feel like that's worded so I'll provide a example.

Example: You want a drizzle politoed, you go into the dungeon and catch a politoed with drizzle. Now for every politoed you have you can use an ability pill to get drizzle. 

I know there's a lot wrong with the idea I'm just throwing it out there.

The issue I have with this is that there would be unlimited HA once you've caught them. There would be no incentive to go back to the dungeon if you already unlocked the pill. With Kyu's current method of catching and breeding, we can make sure no extra HA Pokemon are made, thus still making them special (This due to the refinement breeding process ofc)

 

9 hours ago, Otulp said:

For people who dont play ou and stick to uu/nu, a large number of our mons need to be re bred. This really hurts us more than ou players. 

I fail to see how lower tier players are in more of a predicament than anyone else. Everyone is in the same boat here

[razimove]

17 minutes ago, Kizhaz said:

"The game doesn't need to move on" already starting with a false statement. Every game eventually has to make changes to keep their player base. As for forcing this method of obtaining HA, is that not what this thread is for? We're not forcing anything.

In the sense that you need to do the same again.

No, most pokemons will benefit from HA. Breloom being a good example, poison heal is usable for sure, but technician brings a whole new game to the table. Hitmonlee, Braviary, Lucario, mamoswine being all good examples. Usable? yeah, good compared to HA?, meh.

[Gunthug]

11 minutes ago, redspawn said:

In the sense that you need to do the same again.

No, most pokemons will benefit from HA. Breloom being a good example, poison heal is usable for sure, but technician brings a whole new game to the table. Hitmonlee, Braviary, Lucario, mamoswine being all good examples. Usable? yeah, good compared to HA?, meh.

Why are you naming off new Pokemon? It's not like people had a box of lucarios before the update and will have to rebreed them when HAs come out. At this point if you breed something that will need to be rebred for HA it's your own damn fault 

[LionKIng]

15 hours ago, Kyu said:

I don't want to treat HAs that way. They're special because I want more dungeon rewards.

 

Darkshade's list isn't all-inclusive as to the reasons we're doing HAs this way. It's a complicated problem which hasn't been fully discussed, and can't really be summarized in a dumpster fire of a thread like this where everyone just wants to vent.

 

Please go ahead and enlighten us on how and why it is this way. We are here to support this game, I prefer knowing before hand and trying to help and  adjust it than to just be dumped with your idea that makes everyone redo perfectly good comps. 

 

And for someone who said that new expensions brings new grinds, yeah Im totally up for that I dont care. Did you see the number of pokes we have to breed now? the number of pokes that are now viable and werent before? I mean, theres so much new stuff to get that why should we ruin perfectly good stuff?....

 

And an other dude was comparing this to WoW and with new expensions old stuff are obsolete, I get that and im not ranting for my old NU comps that are 98% useless in todays metagame even in NU, im complaining because theres stuff that are perfectly fine and wont be once their HA are implemented and thats something I really hate, we already lost so much money with old comps being obsolete for now having fine stuff in todays meta be useless aswell. This has become way too much grind for anyone to enjoy at this poinjt...I doubt that if pve dungeons are so tightly related to pvp I will continue to play because I dont have the time to grind myself the dungeons and be able to compete in pvp. And im pretty sure I wont be the only one...

 

14 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Why are you naming off new Pokemon? It's not like people had a box of lucarios before the update and will have to rebreed them when HAs come out. At this point if you breed something that will need to be rebred for HA it's your own damn fault 

And what? people are not supposed to breed stuff just because they will have MAYBE someday have HA implemtend? that just doesnt make sens it puts the game in a mode where nobody wants to breed anything therefore the game is really stale and nothing changes. Ive bred most of the new mons and yes it would be really a pain if their HA would be implemtend this way, id lose a bunch of money and time on something that doesnt need to be that way. But there are plenty of non new mons that have good HA.

Edited December 5, 2017 by LionKIng
added stuff

[Mkns1070]

 

hahah lol dab it's just the first three lines .. they all need HA

 

Rip Mkns 2017

[NikhilR]

Just now, MknsZblex said:

 

hahah lol dab it's just the first three lines .. they all need HA

 

Rip Mkns 2017

Bro you can catch the HA versions in the dungeon, then spend 2-3 hrs each to rebreed them , then ev, then level up, and then spend around 100k each to moveset them. It's so easy, idk what you're talking about. 

[Mkns1070]

Just now, NikhilR said:

Bro you can catch the HA versions in the dungeon, then spend 2-3 hrs each to rebreed them , then ev, then level up, and then spend around 100k each to moveset them. It's so easy, idk what you're talking about. 

Nidoqueen breedable with ditto only, lee same, king its 50/50 (my king are 6*31) etc etc.. 
it's ok for common comps but.. see yourself

[NikhilR]

Just now, MknsZblex said:

Nidoqueen breedable with ditto only, lee same, king its 50/50 (my king are 6*31) etc etc.. 
it's ok for common comps but.. see yourself

Yeah I know bro, just spend another 4-5 hrs catching almost perfect dittos to rebreed them. It's very simple.

 

I'm being sarcastic incase you didn't pick up on it

[Mkns1070]

Just now, NikhilR said:

Yeah I know bro, just spend another 4-5 hrs catching almost perfect dittos to rebreed them. It's very simple.

 

 

  Hide contents

I'm being sarcastic incase you didn't pick up on it

 

I'm dumb sorry xd

[gbwead]

1 hour ago, Gunthug said:

box of lucarios

lusarios?

The comps that players might have already bred for singles and would now get significantly outclassed if they didn't have their HA are imo: Venusaur, Fearow, Pikachu, Raichu, Sandslash, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, defensive Vileplume, Ninetales, Crobat, Primeape?, Politoed, Alakazam, Slowbro, Slowking, Kingler, defensive Exeggutor, Lickitung, Tangela,  Seaking, Starmie?, Jynx?, Tauros, Espeon, Flareon, Dragonite, Feraligatr, Xatu, Jumpluff?, Quagsire, Murkrow, Gligar, Qwilfish, Typhlosion, Sceptile?, Exploud, Sableye, Mawile?, Sharpedo, Cacturne, Altaria?, Zangoose, Crawdaunt, Cradily and Armaldo.

 

Stuff like Salamence would benefit from Moxie, but I don't think it would make Intimidate Salamence unsable.

Edited December 5, 2017 by gbwead

[Mkns1070]

1 minute ago, gbwead said:

lusarios?

The comps that players might have already bred for singles and would now get significantly outclassed if they didn't have their HA are imo: Venusaur, Fearow, Pikachu, Raichu, Sandslash, Nidoking, Nidoqueen, defensive Vileplume, Ninetales, Crobat, Primeape?, Politoed, Alakazam, Slowbro, Slowking, Kingler, defensive Exeggutor, Hitmonlee, Lickitung, Lickilicky, Tangela, Tangrowth,  Seaking, Starmie, Jynx?, Tauros, Espeon, Flareon, Snorlax, Dragonite, Feraligatr, Noctowl, Xatu, Jumpluff?, Quagsire, Murkrow, Gligar, Qwilfish, Heracross, Sceptile, Exploud, Sableye, Mawile?, Sharpedo, Cacturne, Altaria?, Zangoose, Crawdaunt, Cradily, Kecleon? and Clamperl?

 

Stuff like Salamence would benefit from Moxie, but I don't think it would make Intimidate Salamence unsable.

don't forget LC mons :3

[gbwead]

1 minute ago, MknsZblex said:

don't forget LC mons :3

I decided to forget about LC and doubles mons on purpose, so that the list would be as short as possible.

[RysPicz]

 

 

"Let me tell you something you already know. The PokeMMO updates isn't all sunshine and rainbows. It's a very mean and nasty place and I don't care how tough you are it will beat you down to your knees and keep you there permanently if you let it. You, me, or nobody else is gonna hit you as hard as PokeMMO updates. But it ain't about how hard you hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward, how much you can take and keep moving forward. That's how winning is done!"

[Munya]

18 minutes ago, MknsZblex said:

Nidoqueen breedable with ditto only, lee same, king its 50/50 (my king are 6*31) etc etc.. 
it's ok for common comps but.. see yourself

Until the Unova update Nidoqueen was breedable with field/monster egg group Pokemon, it was unintentionally reverted back to unbreedable with the Unova update and should be  made breedable again next update.

[razimove]

53 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

Why are you naming off new Pokemon? It's not like people had a box of lucarios before the update and will have to rebreed them when HAs come out. At this point if you breed something that will need to be rebred for HA it's your own damn fault 

So sec, let me name you a few non gen5.

Slowbro, slowking, breloom, porygon, kingdra, crobat, alakazam, clefable, pikachu, typhlosion, dragonite, salamence, gyarados, starmie.

I'm not saying they're not usable as they are right now, I'm saying they're a lot more usable and better with their HA. A few not really more usable like gyarados or mence, but still, do you get what I mean? So if they get their HA, nobody in their right mind will keep theirs without the HA, since the 'upgrade' is huge.

Imagine this, I take pride in my ditto breeds as well, they're a lot better than the average you find on GTL, lets say a Pory2 Bold 27/31/31/x/31/31(2.5m in dittos), or lets even say one that I sold a few months ago,  a Pory2 Modest 31/31/30/30/31/31(I estimated it costs at least ~15m in dittos to breed another similiar), how will/would I fix any of those? Do you think rebreeding is the answer? Cause I think otherwise.

Edited December 5, 2017 by redspawn

[Raichuforyou]

I don't understand why the devs can't add their vision of how they want to implement HA's, alongside with rare/expensive ways of simply changing a Pokemon's nature; and more expensive than the 100K mentioned earlier in this thread. Make pills buyable through the gift shop, rare lottery drop, rare Elite 4 victory drop, price them at $1mil or more, whatever it might be that will bring the rarity of these pills up.

I will just say, for the love of god, if HA ability changing is ever going to be considered, do not make it a BP prize. You'll just have this loop of people accumulating a lot of BP because they run teams with HA's because they have a lot of BP because they run teams with HA's because... (You get the point)