PokeMMO Generation 5 OU Competitive guide

[WildHodor]

3 hours ago, IDKPRO said:

Good, but waterfall? If I am not wrong, it's a special Move  and if u are looking for special water, isn't scald or the good old surf better? 

Waterfall is physical

[pachima]

23 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

 Togekiss needs some insane RNG to take down a Blissey.

 

Or a good set with hustle drain punch

[RysPicz]

12 minutes ago, pachima said:

Or a good set with hustle drain punch

Pachi... don't...

[pachima]

24 minutes ago, RysPicz said:

Pachi... don't...

I need a dislike button right now.

[RysPicz]

2 hours ago, pachima said:

I need a dislike button right now.

I embarris.

[jorgejmc]

I have some sets i tried myself having the surprise factor by my side. If you think they are good feel free to add then, i love to play hyper offensive style that mence fits in every team i played 

Salamence @ Life Orb  
Ability: Intimidate  
Level: 50  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Roost  
- Dragon Claw  
- Fire Fang  
- Dragon Dance

 

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 SpA / 232 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power Ice
- U-turn

[OrangeManiac]

50 minutes ago, jorgejmc said:

I have some sets i tried myself having the surprise factor by my side. If you think they are good feel free to add then, i love to play hyper offensive style that mence fits in every team i played 

Salamence @ Life Orb  
Ability: Intimidate  
Level: 50  
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Spe  
Jolly Nature  
- Roost  
- Dragon Claw  
- Fire Fang  
- Dragon Dance

 

Mienshao @ Life Orb
Ability: Regenerator
EVs: 252 Atk / 24 SpA / 232 Spe
Naive Nature
- High Jump Kick
- Grass Knot
- Hidden Power Ice
- U-turn

The Salamence set you have there is what I already had in my guide for Salamence, besides not listing "Roost" as a move option. In these cases I guess you could just suggest that Roost should be added to a move selection option to Salamence. About Roost on Salamence, I don't think it's necessarily a bad option per se but I don't think it mixes perfectly with Life Orb and no bulk whatsoever.

 

About Mienshao, I think Grass Knot is definitely interesting because it's a move to damage Jellicent hard. And perhaps Swampert extra hard. However, I'm not super sold that it's "worth it" because Jellicent is so disliked in current OU that it even became UU. I even think Hidden Power Ice is questionable (despite liking it) because it ultimately is for only one Pokemon only, which is Gliscor. Sacrificing Rock-type coverage move for moves that are very specific and for only 1-2 Pokemon isn't what I would do. Also, if you were to use 2 special moves I'd first cut from Atk EVs rather than speed EVs.

 

I think your idea for 2 special moves for Mienshao is interesting and I guess it would be worth it as listing as an option I guess.

Edit: I added "Grass Knot" as "Other options" to Mienshao.

 

Edited April 2, 2018 by OrangeManiac

[jorgejmc]

5 minutes ago, OrangeManiac said:

The Salamence set you have there is what I already had in my guide for Salamence, besides not listing "Roost" as a move option. In these cases I guess you could just suggest that Roost should be added to a move selection option to Salamence. About Roost on Salamence, I don't think it's necessarily a bad option per se but I don't think it mixes perfectly with Life Orb and no bulk whatsoever.

 

About Mienshao, I think Grass Knot is definitely interesting because it's a move to damage Jellicent hard. And perhaps Swampert extra hard. However, I'm not super sold that it's "worth it" because Jellicent is so disliked in current OU that it even became UU. I even think Hidden Power Ice is questionable (despite liking it) because it ultimately is for only one Pokemon only, which is Gliscor. Sacrificing Rock-type coverage move for moves that are very specific and for only 1-2 Pokemon isn't what I would do. Also, if you were to use 2 special moves I'd first cut from Atk EVs rather than speed EVs.

 

I think your idea for 2 special moves for Mienshao is interesting and I guess it would be worth it as listing as an option I guess.

with intimidate-roost mence have more chance to set up i was trying to emulate megazard X set xD 

Grass knot works amazing against hippo too, i wanted to try a different ev spread on mence  looking for a more bulky one also im working on a bulky excadrill when i have the optimal ev's and set i will post it here 

Edited April 2, 2018 by jorgejmc

[OrangeManiac]

1 minute ago, jorgejmc said:

Grass knot works amazing against hippo too, i wanted to try a different ev spread on mence  looking for a more bulky one also im working on a bulky excadrill when i have the optimal ev's and set i will post it here 

0 SpA Life Orb Mienshao Grass Knot (120 BP) vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Hippowdon: 278-330 (66.1 - 78.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

Oh, that's a really good catch. I think this makes Grass Knot a very viable option.

[MightyBoxer]

Awesome guide.Very helpful!

 

any chance u can add these pokemon on the list?

 

tentacruel

weezing

jolteon

snorlax

swampert

porygon-z

 

[OrangeManiac]

9 hours ago, MightyBoxer said:

Awesome guide.Very helpful!

 

any chance u can add these pokemon on the list?

 

tentacruel

weezing

jolteon

snorlax

swampert

porygon-z

 

Thanks. And yeah I'll do it eventually.

[tMuse]

I'm using this snorlax set atm. works pretty well against special attackers in general.

people normally expect curse on a snorlax so i guess the surprise factor is on my side

 

Snorlax @ Choice Band
Adamant Nature
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 52 Def / 200 SpD / 4 Spe
- Return
- Pursuit
- Fire Punch
- Ice Punch

 

 

[Lognus]

Wouldn't it be better for a Tyranitar to have fire punch instead of flamethrower? I've run some tests against Ferrothorn 252 def/spD and it seems that fire punch is better.

Here against Ferrothorn:

 

Against Magnezone there was no significant difference betwen Fire Punch or Flamethrower

[OrangeManiac]

1 hour ago, Lognus said:

Wouldn't it be better for a Tyranitar to have fire punch instead of flamethrower? I've run some tests against Ferrothorn 252 def/spD and it seems that fire punch is better.

Here against Ferrothorn:

 

Against Magnezone there was no significant difference betwen Fire Punch or Flamethrower

In your calc you're giving Tyranitar a Careful nature and thus reducing the power of Flamethrower. In addition, you put Sassy nature on that Special Defensive Ferrothorn but you're not giving Relaxed nature on that Physically Defensive Ferrothorn and therefor the comparison isn't fair. But sure, I can help you there.

 

0 Atk Tyranitar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Ferrothorn: 88-108 (48.6 - 59.6%) -- 78.1% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 Atk Tyranitar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Ferrothorn: 116-140 (64 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

0 SpA Tyranitar Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Ferrothorn: 116-140 (64 - 77.3%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

0 SpA Tyranitar Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Ferrothorn: 88-104 (48.6 - 57.4%) -- 40.6% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

The calcs are identical - just vice versa - depending whether Tyranitar and Ferrothorn in question are physical or specially invested. However, most Ferrothorn's in the OU tier are physically defensive which means that Flamethrower usually does more and in addition Fire Punch makes Tyranitar to take 1/8th damage because of Iron Barbs (and possibly Rocky Helmet in the future). Even if most Ferrothorn were specially defensive, this alone is the reason why Flamethrower is better against Ferrothorns.

 

0 SpA Tyranitar Flamethrower vs. 4 HP / 0 SpD Magnezone: 72-86 (49.3 - 58.9%) -- 98.4% chance to 2HKO

0 Atk Tyranitar Fire Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Magnezone: 66-78 (45.2 - 53.4%) -- 32% chance to 2HKO

 

Yeah, no real difference.

 

0 SpA Tyranitar Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Skarmory: 88-104 (51.1 - 60.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO

0 Atk Tyranitar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Skarmory: 44-52 (25.5 - 30.2%) -- guaranteed 4HKO

0 Atk Tyranitar Fire Punch vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Skarmory: 56-66 (32.5 - 38.3%) -- 97.4% chance to 3HKO

0 SpA Tyranitar Flamethrower vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Skarmory: 58-70 (33.7 - 40.6%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

 

I think this is the main reason why Flamethrower is better. Not only 90% of the Skarmorys are physically defensive but even if you face a specially defensive Skarmory, Flamethrower STILL does more damage.

 

Edit: If your Tyranitar is Careful nature and you want to use a Fire-type move, then yeah there's nothing wrong with putting Fire Punch on it instead of Flamethrower. However, if you want to use a Fire-type move and you're Sassy nature then Flamethrower is better to me according to these calculations. I don't think Tyranitar really needs any speed, especially because Jellicent isn't even OU anymore but to each their own.

 

Edited April 27, 2018 by OrangeManiac

[pachima]

Besides, flamethrower doesnt trigger Iron barbs like fire punch does.

[TrueDarkness]

Tried this idea borrowed from Milktank strategy. It works on Snorlax LOL and much more powerful and hard to stop.

 

Rolling Snorlax @ Chesto Berry
Adamant Nature / Brave (It's slow anyway ... lol)
Ability: Thick Fat
EVs: 252 Atk / 252 Def / 4 SpD

or

EVs: 248 Atk / 248 Def / 14 SpD (for 50 lv PvP)
- Defense Curl
- Rest
- Rollout (Rock Type) (Accuracy : 90%)
- Earthquake (Ground Type)

 

Stats:  (at 50 lv)
HP: 235
Attack: 178 (252/248 EVs)
Defense: 117 (252/248 EVs) (That's why we need to put EVs on Defense, it's too weak!!!)
Sp. Def. : 130
Speed : 51 (doesn't matter the no., it's slow anyway)

Type to 2x Damage with 178 attack stats :
Flying, Poison, Rock, Bug, Steel, Fire, Electric, Ice

with Thick Fat, Snorlax is resist to Fire & Ice.

 

Strategy 1 (Rollout) (when you meet Flying, Bug, Fire, ICE) : 
First, use Defense Curl (they probably need to switch anyway), you will need to take some damage from people (if they didn't switch). Then, you use Rollout (once you used Defense Curl, your damage will be doubled to 60, 120, 240, 480, 960). It will kill so many Pokemon with this surprise lol. If you miss, stopped, get stuck, use Rest to recover everything and exchange pokemon after that (if Snorlax doesn't die).

 

P.S. use Rollout directly sometimes if you use face Flying, Bug, Fire, ICE. They don't know your Snorlax know Rollout and damage will keep doubling.

 

Strategy 2 (Earthquake) (for Poison, Steel, Fire, Electric) (excluding Genger, Weezing because of Levitate ability & Fire type which have Air Ballon / with Flying type)  :
No need to think. Spam Earthquake. They got pwned anyway and you can rest for full hp to use.

 

When to swtich:
1. Well known Pokemon that know Fighting move (e.g. Dragonite)

2. Gengar (you need to hope their Focus Blast miss, but it will hit you in the 2nd time), but Gengar need 2HKO to your Snorlax. (You can have a bet, but you can't swtich in Snorlax as it will slow than 1 round to rollout)

3. All fighting type

 

P.S. Gengar will die quickly if your Rollout already doubled to OHKO damage.

 

a 100 lv Snorlax can take out 2-4 pokemons in a one-on-one vs. Elite Four / Champion Blue.

 

Bad points :

1. If your Rollout miss in the first 1 - 2 hit(s), you're in bad luck. Good fight.....

2. Setting up Defense Curl is rather hard sometimes if people know Thunder Wave, Lovely Kiss, Spore, Sleep Powder, etc.) (you better swtich for this kind of pokemon you face)

 

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by TrueDarkness

[TrueDarkness]

Fastest Gyarados which kills off pokemon which knows Electric move!!

 

Gyarados @ Choice Scarf
Nature : Jolly (boost Speed!!)
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 4 HP / 252 Atk / 252 Speed

or

EVs: 14 HP / 248 Atk / 248 Speed (for 50 lv PvP)

 

Stats :

HP : 170

Attack : 177

Defense : 100

Sp. Def : 120

Speed : 146 (& 219 with Choice Scarf!!)

 

Moves :
- Waterfall (kills Ground, Rock, Fire)
- Earthquake (kills Poison, Rock, Steel, Fire without Levitate ability)
- Ice Fang (use only to kill Flying, Grass & Dragon)
- Crunch (kills Ghost (Gengar), Psychic (Slowbro)) 

 

Types that can 2 x Damage :
Flying, Posion, Ground, Rock, Ghost, Steel, Fire, Grass, Electric, Psychic, Dragon

 

Description:

This set can use Life Orb / Choice Band, but you better switch if people switch something in that knows Electric move like Thunderbolt / Thunder Punch or Hidden Power Electric, e.g. Arcanine, Starmie, Weezing, Lapras, Hitmonchan, Dragonite, etc.)

 

When to switch :

Something you can't kill with OHKO that knows Electric move : e.g. Arcanine, Weezing, Lapras, Hitmonchan (or Fighting type which knows Thunder punch), Dragonite, Starmie, etc.

 

or Physcial Steel wall you can't kill with Earthquake

 

Statistics :
Earthquake : 252 Atk Gyarados Earthquake vs. 0 HP / 4 Def Jolteon: 166-196 (118.5 - 140%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Crunch : 252 Atk Gyarados Crunch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 134-158 (98.5 - 116.1%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO (Good luck!! Bro!)

 

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by TrueDarkness

[OrangeManiac]

@TrueDarkness

 

I'm afraid to say that in higher level of play, Rollout strategies are never a good idea. Being locked to a move is something you never want to do and there's plenty of things that can nuke Snorlax when locked with Fight-attack, which is a super common coverage move in OU. Also the Rollout damage in the first 3 turns is very negligible and by then, well, you're dead. Steel-type is also very common in OU which can take Rollout for days. That Snorlax is an interesting gimmick for sure but not competitively viable. By the way, if you wanna pull off that strategy with slightly better result, use Ice Ball Walrein w/ Defense Curl in lower tiers, although it isn't amazing there either.

 

Scarf Gyarados isn't that awful and can certainly catch many by surprise but it isn't worth putting it in this guide. Simply put; anything can be surprise Scarf. There's no special mention why Gyarados is a specifically good Scarfer and quite rather, it's not. In the long run, using Scarf over Dragon Dance is, well, not a good idea. Setting up one Dragon Dance with Gyarados is amazingly easy and already outperforms Scarf with such a simple set up. Can it work by surprising someone once in a while? Sure. Is it competitively worth mentioning? I'm sorry but no.

 

Thank you for your contributions but I prefer to include only movesets in my guide that can be competitively viable in the long run and in the highest level of play.

[pachima]

1 hour ago, OrangeManiac said:

@TrueDarkness

 

I'm afraid to say that in higher level of play, Rollout strategies are never a good idea. Being locked to a move is something you never want to do and there's plenty of things that can nuke Snorlax when locked with Fight-attack, which is a super common coverage move in OU. Also the Rollout damage in the first 3 turns is very negligible and by then, well, you're dead. Steel-type is also very common in OU which can take Rollout for days. That Snorlax is an interesting gimmick for sure but not competitively viable. By the way, if you wanna pull off that strategy with slightly better result, use Ice Ball Walrein w/ Defense Curl in lower tiers, although it isn't amazing there either.

 

Scarf Gyarados isn't that awful and can certainly catch many by surprise but it isn't worth putting it in this guide. Simply put; anything can be surprise Scarf. There's no special mention why Gyarados is a specifically good Scarfer and quite rather, it's not. In the long run, using Scarf over Dragon Dance is, well, not a good idea. Setting up one Dragon Dance with Gyarados is amazingly easy and already outperforms Scarf with such a simple set up. Can it work by surprising someone once in a while? Sure. Is it competitively worth mentioning? I'm sorry but no.

 

Thank you for your contributions but I prefer to include only movesets in my guide that can be competitively viable in the long run and in the highest level of play.

Competitive guide you say. Where is my hustle togekiss set?

[TrueDarkness]

3 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

@TrueDarkness

 

I'm afraid to say that in higher level of play, Rollout strategies are never a good idea. Being locked to a move is something you never want to do and there's plenty of things that can nuke Snorlax when locked with Fight-attack, which is a super common coverage move in OU. Also the Rollout damage in the first 3 turns is very negligible and by then, well, you're dead. Steel-type is also very common in OU which can take Rollout for days. That Snorlax is an interesting gimmick for sure but not competitively viable. By the way, if you wanna pull off that strategy with slightly better result, use Ice Ball Walrein w/ Defense Curl in lower tiers, although it isn't amazing there either.

 

Scarf Gyarados isn't that awful and can certainly catch many by surprise but it isn't worth putting it in this guide. Simply put; anything can be surprise Scarf. There's no special mention why Gyarados is a specifically good Scarfer and quite rather, it's not. In the long run, using Scarf over Dragon Dance is, well, not a good idea. Setting up one Dragon Dance with Gyarados is amazingly easy and already outperforms Scarf with such a simple set up. Can it work by surprising someone once in a while? Sure. Is it competitively worth mentioning? I'm sorry but no.

 

Thank you for your contributions but I prefer to include only movesets in my guide that can be competitively viable in the long run and in the highest level of play.

Ar, thanks for replying and you're right. Dragon dance in the first term is kinda easy as people usually switch out which waste a first ground and your speed is already catch them up even Jolteon. My set is just to fight against anyone who will switch a pokemon which will always 2x damage to your pokemon. It's quite annoying lol... and it's quite good to equip something that will crunch your foe with surprise that this is not just a pokemon switching game XD.

Is the Dragon Dance Gyarados good with Waterfall, Ice Fang & Earthquake?  It can kills off much or pretty much pokemon is 2x Damage to Gyarados after a successful Dragon Dance in play.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

There also a tricky Gengar that I got the idea from competitive OU champion reply.

 

Life Orb Tricky Gengar

 

Nature: Timid

EVs: 252 Speed 252 Sp. Atk
Item: Life Orb

 

- Shadow Ball

- Focus Blast

- Substitute

- Pain Split

 

When facing some bulky pokemon and sp. def wall, you can keep using Substitute 3 times, then pain split the foe's pokemon hp. Focus Blast to Eviolite Chansey doesn't work tough. So, we use another strategy to keep gaining it's hp until one side decided to switch LOL.

 

Pain Split is also good at taking 50% hp off your foe's pokemon before it is down. You can easily take down the foe's pokemon with your next pokemon. Very tricky.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Since Eviolite is working, Eviolite Chansey becomes more powerful than ever as a Sp. atk waller.

 

Epic Wall Chansey

 

Nature : Bold (+Def, -Atk)

EVs: 252 Def 252 Sp. Def
Item: Eviolite (add 50% to both Def & Sp. Def again!)

 

Stats @ 50 lv
HP : 326

Def : 62 (Eviolite boosted to 93)

Sp. Def : 157 (Eviolite boosted to 235.5)

 

Moves :

- Wish

- Toxic

- Heal Bell

- Soft-Boiled

 

I guess it will be in Uber tier.... lol

 

Edited August 18, 2018 by TrueDarkness

[OrangeManiac]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 2:50 PM, TrueDarkness said:

Ar, thanks for replying and you're right. Dragon dance in the first term is kinda easy as people usually switch out which waste a first ground and your speed is already catch them up even Jolteon. My set is just to fight against anyone who will switch a pokemon which will always 2x damage to your pokemon. It's quite annoying lol... and it's quite good to equip something that will crunch your foe with surprise that this is not just a pokemon switching game XD.

Is the Dragon Dance Gyarados good with Waterfall, Ice Fang & Earthquake?  It can kills off much or pretty much pokemon is 2x Damage to Gyarados after a successful Dragon Dance in play.

 

Waterfall and Dragon Dance are the obvious picks in a Dragon Dance set. The next coverage move I would recommend to be either Stone Edge or Ice Fang. Both have their pros and cons but the biggest reason to use either one is to hit Dragon/Flyings super effectively. Now, Ice Fang gives an extra boost there but Stone Edge helps dealing with opposing Gyaras. I'm not so super sure about Earthquake. Sure, it can be nice against Metagross, hit Ferrothorn decently, OHKO Magnezone reliably so it definitely can have some use but I find Taunt or Substitute to be more consistent moves to help you beat things like Toxic or phazing. But that set isn't bad at all as far as I'm concerned.

 

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 2:50 PM, TrueDarkness said:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

There also a tricky Gengar that I got the idea from competitive OU champion reply.

 

Life Orb Tricky Gengar

 

Nature: Timid

EVs: 252 Speed 252 Sp. Atk
Item: Life Orb

 

- Shadow Ball

- Focus Blast

- Substitute

- Pain Split

 

When facing some bulky pokemon and sp. def wall, you can keep using Substitute 3 times, then pain split the foe's pokemon hp. Focus Blast to Eviolite Chansey doesn't work tough. So, we use another strategy to keep gaining it's hp until one side decided to switch LOL.

 

Pain Split is also good at taking 50% hp off your foe's pokemon before it is down. You can easily take down the foe's pokemon with your next pokemon. Very tricky.

 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Pain Split is a great move, sure, I even included a bulky Gengar set in my guide. I just don't see going too well with an offensive build, though. The whole set kinda relies on hoping your opponent switches. Otherwise you're Substituting for nothing and when you're getting too low, you need to Pain Split, however as Gengar is defensively so paper you're probably dead. I find Taunt so much reliable way to beat walls and furthermore; Chansey can't do anything to Gengar no matter of its set besides, well, idk, Thunder Wave?

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2018 at 2:50 PM, TrueDarkness said:

 

Since Eviolite is working, Eviolite Chansey becomes more powerful than ever as a Sp. atk waller.

 

Epic Wall Chansey

 

Nature : Bold (+Def, -Atk)

EVs: 252 Def 252 Sp. Def
Item: Eviolite (add 50% to both Def & Sp. Def again!)

 

Stats @ 50 lv
HP : 326

Def : 62 (Eviolite boosted to 93)

Sp. Def : 157 (Eviolite boosted to 235.5)

 

Moves :

- Wish

- Toxic

- Heal Bell

- Soft-Boiled

 

I guess it will be in Uber tier.... lol

 

 

I already included this set in my guide except not having 2 healing moves as that is kind of an overkill unless your whole purpose is to time stall. Protect is a super useful move with Wish because it also allows you to scout for Choice Banded moves. The thing about Blissey is that it already is a god tier special wall. Chansey is an overkill. So Chansey technically isn't made to "special wall" but also made to defend herself more from the physical attacks.

[PeterParquet]

Chansey can do a lot more than thunderwave to gengar, she can just wall him forever to dying at 0 pp after a boring 30 mins game(max pp required), thats A LOT OF WORSE than just one shot gengar.

[OrangeManiac]

1 hour ago, PeterParquet said:

Chansey can do a lot more than thunderwave to gengar, she can just wall him forever to dying at 0 pp after a boring 30 mins game(max pp required), thats A LOT OF WORSE than just one shot gengar.

You're forgetting the part where Chansey loses the equal amount of PP and if you run a standard Chansey, you don't really want to waste any of that PP.

 

Also it doesn't all that long to PP stall with 1v1. And if your Pokemon isn't PP Maxed, especially Gengar, when you know it can be a win condition against Chansey - you don't deserve to win.

 

And besides. You can conserve Gengar's PP by switching out because Chansey imposes no offensive threat but Chansey can't switch out unless it has a Gengar counter.

 

Edited August 23, 2018 by OrangeManiac

[pachima]

1 hour ago, OrangeManiac said:

Standard lame Chanseys imposes no offensive threat 

 

Ftfy.

Btw,  I think its time to add darmanitan. Sheer force puts it to sky high offense levels. Speed is kinda a letdown tho.

Either way, I believe Darmanitan is worth an A- (B+ at worse)

[OrangeManiac]

17 minutes ago, pachima said:

Ftfy.

Btw,  I think its time to add darmanitan. Sheer force puts it to sky high offense levels. Speed is kinda a letdown tho.

Either way, I believe Darmanitan is worth an A- (B+ at worse)

Absolutely. Will add when I'm on computer.