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PokeMMO Generation 5 OU Competitive guide [Discontinued]


OrangeManiac

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Welcome to OU competetive guide. In this thread the most common movesets for OU Pokemon will be listed to help new players to get a gist of the metagame. Any comments, opinions etc. are welcome.

Dugtrio BST: 425 (35/100/50/50/70/120)   - Dugtrio is the ultimate support Pokemon you want to use if there ever is some Pokemon Dugtrio can trap that causes your team some problems. Na

Mienshao BST: 510 (65/125/60/95/60/105)   - Mienshao is quite an interesting case of a glass cannon Pokemon with an ability Regenerator. This ability recovers one third of the Pokemon's

2 minutes ago, elian221 said:

Really? oh thank you 

I didn't know that

Sludge Bomb inflicts damage and has a 30% chance of poisoning the target. It has no effect on targets with Bulletproof. -Bulbapedia

Sludge Wave inflicts damage and has a 10% chance of poisoning the target. Sludge Wave will hit all Pokémon in Double Battles and all adjacent Pokémon in Triple Battles. -Also Bulbapedia

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Just now, Meh said:

Sludge Bomb inflicts damage and has a 30% chance of poisoning the target. It has no effect on targets with Bulletproof. -Bulbapedia

Sludge Wave inflicts damage and has a 10% chance of poisoning the target. Sludge Wave will hit all Pokémon in Double Battles and all adjacent Pokémon in Triple Battles. -Also Bulbapedia

Cool man

 

Bomb Sludge is more viable than psychic at the moment?

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5 hours ago, elian221 said:

Hippowdon:

Currently there are many pokemons weak to electric, would not it be good thunder fang?

Thunder fang would be pretty much useless, since hippowndon learns Stone edge. Well, except for starmie, but it will never be a OHKO:

0 Atk Hippowdon Thunder Fang vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Starmie: 118-140 (45.2 - 53.6%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Stealth Rock and sandstorm damage

 

while

 

252 SpA Life Orb Starmie Hydro Pump vs. 252 HP / 176 SpD Hippowdon: 413-486 (98.3 - 115.7%) -- 87.5% chance to OHKO after Leftovers recovery
 
I wouldn't recommend running stone edge on hippodown either, since whirlwind can save your life from a bulk up conkeldurr...
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7 hours ago, elian221 said:

Hippowdon:

Currently there are many pokemons weak to electric, would not it be good thunder fang?

Extremely niche move, that at most could troll a Gyarados and Mantine if all stars align. So in the long run, no.

 

3 hours ago, elian221 said:

Gengar with Sludge Wave is better than Sludge Bomb

What Meh said.

 

2 hours ago, elian221 said:

Bomb Sludge is more viable than psychic at the moment?

The way I see Gengar is that it absolutely needs to have Shadow Ball and Focus Blast. Third coverage move that hits lots of things is Thunderbolt. Now, 4th move can be anything: Taunt, Giga Drain or as you said, Psychic or Sludge Bomb. I would actually most likely use Taunt for walls or Psychic for Conkeldurr because any extra damage you can get against it will help you.

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2 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

Extremely niche move, that at most could troll a Gyarados and Mantine if all stars align. So in the long run, no.

 

What Meh said.

 

The way I see Gengar is that it absolutely needs to have Shadow Ball and Focus Blast. Third coverage move that hits lots of things is Thunderbolt. Now, 4th move can be anything: Taunt, Giga Drain or as you said, Psychic or Sludge Bomb. I would actually most likely use Taunt for walls or Psychic for Conkeldurr because any extra damage you can get against it will help you.

My moveset

 

Shadow Ball,Focus,Thunder,Sludge Bomb.  but i have reuniclus

 

 

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Focus blast on gengar is overrated.  Its nice on switches since a miss isn't dead lost, but a lot of times it just needs to hit and doesn't.  Don't appreciate 70/30's against tyranitar and it still loses to scizor and cb snorlax.  Predicting the pursuit trap or bluffing focus blast on tyranitar is easier.  What to do is to get a choice scarf or specs (I like scarf better), then give it this moveset:

 

Shadow ball

Hidden power ice/tunderbolt

Trick

Destiny Bond

 

Can cripple walls, outspeed and ko dragon dancers, and have make pursuit think if they switch in on a destiny bond.  You have ot predict well to use it.  It goes well if you do but can go really badly if you mess up.  But yeah, destiny bond and trick are both much more powerful moves than giga drain or psychic.

Edited by Aard
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@Aard If you're that concerned about Scizor Pursuit trap, why not just use Hidden Power Fire. Do you prefer to die with Scizor compared to just straight up taking it down and staying alive? Also bulky TTar lives Focus Blast in sand so not always can you even "bluff" it but as in general it has lots of other uses. The way I see Pokemon is that you should use things that are effective in the long run rather than hoping you have the luckiest game in your life predicting everything. But you do you, I don't wanna change your opinion on your preferred Gengar set - rather trying to defend my own ones in my competitive guide.


Edit: But I can't lie, Choice locked Destiny Bond is pretty hilarious recipe for disaster. Like, how could you even potentially argue that combo is viable in any shape or form.

 

Edited by OrangeManiac
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Gengar doesn't have to run Focus Blast. It's just an uncomp move that a lot of players would rather not have to rely on. Gengar Sub Pain Split Focus Blast is just broken af right now because it can stall Blissey/Chansey  and force the opposing player to lose after 60 mins because of the dmg rule. 

 

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1 hour ago, OrangeManiac said:

@Aard Edit: But I can't lie, Choice locked Destiny Bond is pretty hilarious recipe for disaster. Like, how could you even potentially argue that combo is viable in any shape or form.

 

This is the type of thing that's really annoying.  A choice locked destiny bond is only bad depending on when you reveal it.  If something has set up that you are usually lost to even with a scarf like volcarona, a fast destiny bond is the only way to take it down.  Then if they know your set, it becomes a prediction war on if you will trick on  another quiver dance or destiny bond on an attack. Reading what the opponent is going to do isn't luck.  Your opponent is not a random number generator.  What is a random number generator is if focus blast will hit.  I can control rock paper scissors into my favor, I can't control a dice roll.  Its just a question of if a player can get something like the destiny bond prediction above 70%.  I say they can since with two players of equal skill one knows the set and the other doesn't. 

 

With scizor the goal is to get out alive or take it down with you.  Both players have to think about the possible options and the result of who wins it is whoever plays better.  Hidden power fire is too situational and will just lose once gengar is low enough to be bullet punched to death.  All it does is create the 50/50 of switching or dying like destiny bond for one mon and hit ferrothorn.  Hidden power ice is more useful because of the kos it gets on dragonite,  salamence, flygon, and hurt haxorus.  Thunderbolt is useful for dragon dance gyarados, skarmory, and other waters.  Hidden power fire just doesn't have the same utility as any of these moves.

 

Also, not to sure about that ttar calc you did

 

252 SpA Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 352-416 (87.1 - 102.9%) -- 93.8% chance to OHKO after Stealth Rock

252 SpA Choice Specs Gengar Focus Blast vs. 252 HP / 0 SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 524-620 (129.7 - 153.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

 

And if someone is crazy enough to run a full spdef set it doesn't really work in this specific situation with pursuit since you need the attack on a choice band to actually 1hko the gengar.

 

252+ Atk Choice Band Tyranitar Pursuit vs. 0 HP / 0 Def Gengar: 336-396 (104.6 - 123.3%) -- guaranteed OHKO

Edited by Aard
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38 minutes ago, Aard said:

Then if they know your set, it becomes a prediction war on if you will trick on  another quiver dance or destiny bond on an attack. Reading what the opponent is going to do isn't luck.

In the situation you describe, assuming the opponent is aware of your set, I would argue we're not talking prediction but glorified guessing.

A cool trick is to first try not to put yourself in a position where you are forced to "predict".

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11 minutes ago, Draekyn said:

In the situation you describe, assuming the opponent is aware of your set, I would argue we're not talking prediction but glorified guessing.

A cool trick is to first try not to put yourself in a position where you are forced to "predict".

The beauty of it is if they know half your set, that you are scarfed but not that you carry destiny bond, then you win almost every time since they will attack because they are worried about the trick.  A good player will see a gengar switch into volcarona on a quiver dance as a  scarf and expect trick therefore locking into an attack or switching depending on the state of the game. Then just destiny bond or switch yourself.  Beat the best players in this situation almost every time with this set until they know it.  Seems good.

 

I'm not saying this is the only set, just my favorite and it is certainly viable.

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5 minutes ago, Aard said:

The beauty of it is if they know half your set, that you are scarfed but not that you carry destiny bond, then you win almost every time since they will attack because they are worried about the trick.  A good player will see a gengar switch into volcarona on a quiver dance as a  scarf and expect trick therefore locking into an attack or switching depending on the state of the game. Then just destiny bond or switch yourself.  Beat the best players in this situation almost every time with this set until they know it.  Seems good.

In what I quoted your premise was that the opponent knew your full set. Though this is correct if they're only aware of the scarf/trick.

 

5 minutes ago, Aard said:

I'm not saying this is the only set, just my favorite and it is certainly viable.

Locked dbond is always tricky for reasons I'm sure you're aware of. It'll surely do its job if played with the right timing.

That aside, from the few lines I read in this and other comp threads, I think you should consider the limitations of a playstyle based on predicting, it obviously showcases game knowledge and confidence, but imo it should be a (though commonly used) last resort if your team is well made.

 

Carry on discussing Gengar, love this btw

1 hour ago, gbwead said:

Gengar Sub Pain Split Focus Blast is just broken af right now because it can stall Blissey/Chansey  and force the opposing player to lose after 60 mins because of the dmg rule. 

perfectly demonstrates how much we need a dev that's not oblivious to all things related to competitive play

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4 minutes ago, Draekyn said:

Locked dbond is always tricky for reasons I'm sure you're aware of. It'll surely do its job if played with the right timing.

That aside, from the few lines I read in this and other comp threads, I think you should consider the limitations of a playstyle based on predicting, it obviously showcases game knowledge and confidence, but imo it should be a (though commonly used) last resort if your team is well made.

I agree with that, but more than that it allows for switch timing and teamcomps you otherwise don't have access to. It opens up a few possibilities if after all your checks are dead you still have a prediction based resource like this. 

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