Jump to content

PokeMMO Generation 5 OU Competitive guide [Discontinued]


OrangeManiac

Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, redspawn said:

I didn't use flinch as a argument, I used flinch as a perk to have rock slide, doens't mean you'll see much uses out of it, means it has more uses than just being 75 bp, let's call it a bonus to use it. Which can have some uses even if not many, near none to be fair. I used it to give you an example, you tell double dancer, while nobody will use it most of the time, does that mean it's that horrible? It isnt, it's different per say. Like I said multiple times, the argument here is 80 acc vs 90 acc, in which the latter is better, especially when one of the best switch ins of this ttar is volcarona, plus 134 base atk, thing hits well anyway.

Haha, at this point I'm just intrigued by your responses. Like, what does my suggestion to use Dragon Dance + Swords Dance on a Haxorus have anything to do with my questioning Cheels decision to run Rock Slide over Stone Edge?

 

Anyhoos, everyone on this server will appreciate your use of Rock Slide over Stone Edge when they play you. Also, I'd suggest not using Tyranitar as an answer to Volcarona...

 

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 164-195 (79.2 - 94.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO
Link to post
  • Replies 158
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Welcome to OU competetive guide. In this thread the most common movesets for OU Pokemon will be listed to help new players to get a gist of the metagame. Any comments, opinions etc. are welcome.

Dugtrio BST: 425 (35/100/50/50/70/120)   - Dugtrio is the ultimate support Pokemon you want to use if there ever is some Pokemon Dugtrio can trap that causes your team some problems. Na

Mienshao BST: 510 (65/125/60/95/60/105)   - Mienshao is quite an interesting case of a glass cannon Pokemon with an ability Regenerator. This ability recovers one third of the Pokemon's

1 minute ago, DoubleJ said:

ike, what does my suggestion to use Dragon Dance + Swords Dance on a Haxorus have anything to do with my questioning Cheels decision to run Rock Slide over Stone Edge?

I didn't say anything about cheels or anything, I answer you with one of the plausible reasons behind rock slide.. jesus dude, you're so dense sometimes. Nice modest and life orb, you'll find many man, I wish you the best of luck, let me guess, even mantine has troubles with that, on the switch in, if there's rocks on the field?

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 88-104 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 57-70 (29.6 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

field?

 

7 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Anyhoos, everyone on this server will appreciate your use of Rock Slide over Stone Edge when they play you.

Just like they love when you give them a free switch into skarmory by using double dance on haxorus my man, I love that only your opinion is correct no matter what. Although I'm quite curious to your reasoning behind using wall ttar now. 
 


 

Link to post
1 minute ago, redspawn said:

I didn't say anything about cheels or anything, I answer you with one of the plausible reasons behind rock slide.. jesus dude, you're so dense sometimes. Nice modest and life orb, you'll find many man, I wish you the best of luck, let me guess, even mantine has troubles with that, on the switch in, if there's rocks on the field?

+1 252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 88-104 (45.8 - 54.1%) -- 2% chance to 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

252+ SpA Life Orb Volcarona Hidden Power Rock vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Mantine: 57-70 (29.6 - 36.4%) -- guaranteed 4HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

field?

I simply presented a counter argument and yet here you are calling me dense because I questioned your thought process. So please tell me, what does Mantine have to do with our little debate here? It surely is a better check to Volca unlike this Tyranitar. Even Timid +1 Bug Buzz fucks with this Tyranitar (Yes, I should have posted Timid since it's more common). 

 

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 151-179 (72.9 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

1 minute ago, redspawn said:

Just like they love when you give them a free switch into skarmory by using double dance on haxorus my man, I love that only your opinion is correct no matter what. Although I'm quite curious to your reasoning behind using wall ttar now. 

You're being so defensive when you freely entered into this debate by posting on Cheels behalf. So be chill. You ever heard of a thing called Magnezone? Oh wait, that won't ever be a counter because Skarmory has Shed Hull... maybe consider playing Knock Off in your team. Creativity is pretty cool if you give it a chance. Was just a neat set that has some viability with the right team build around it. 

 

 

tl;dr a) Stone Edge > Rock Slide b) Flinch is pointless when you're slower than most walls c)Tyranitar probably shouldn't be your answer to Volcarona

 

 And yes, in my opinion my opinion is correct no matter what. 

Link to post
10 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

+1 252 SpA Life Orb Volcarona Bug Buzz vs. 252 HP / 252+ SpD Tyranitar in Sand: 151-179 (72.9 - 86.4%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

 

So you're telling me that this is the reason to why ttar isn't a viable switch in to volcarona? 
 

(cut this somehow, don't remember what was written previously, but let me try)here's an answer, and either way this is a positive trade for you, getting a ridiculous strong late game sweeper out of the game, in exchange for 86% hp, out of which you can keep him for a sand setter.

I love how you talk about creativity and being defensive, but the only person here who I see getting offended to the point of having to go get someone else's name into the convo, is you. Like I said, I didn't talk on her behalf or on behalf of anyone but me, I literally gave you a plausible answer, the same I could have done to anyone, freedom of speech, ever heard? If the convo was that private, ever considered private messages? So please, stop pretending I'm here to white knight anyone.

 

10 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

And yes, in my opinion my opinion is correct no matter what. 

Nothing against, my dude, you're the one who presented a bad argument to that stone edge will be a superior option to rock slide, when in reality is a simple trade off, you trade accuracy for BP, you like to risk it? Go for it my man, why do you run CC on lucario, when you can run HJK? It's pokemon, Idk why you're playing if you take CC vs HJK, chance of failing or them changing into a ghost type? Those are just simple risks my dude, a good player doens't fear them nor does it fear losing to a huge win con like volcarona by simply failing a stone edge.

 

10 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

So please tell me, what does Mantine have to do with our little debate here?

You present an autistic answer, I reply with an autistic answer, that simple.

Edited by redspawn
Link to post

Ok, so let me get this straight...

  1. Apparently Tyranitar is always going to have >86% health when it switches in on Volcarona
  2. Saying Stone Edge > Rock Slide is a bad argument
  3. Comparing Stone Edge and Rock Slide is analogous to comparing HJK and Close Combat
  4. Haxorus + Mantine because... autism?
  5. Asking Cheels a question and having to deal with you is me getting offended
  6. Freedom of Speech on a public forum

Ok.

 

@Gunthug halp. I've reached my limits. 

Link to post
23 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Asking Cheels a question and having to deal with you is me getting offended

Idk man I'm still asking myself is why do you keep on pushing her name, or saying that I answered for her, and would it have really mattered either way? Kinda curious.

 

23 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Apparently Tyranitar is always going to have >86% health when it switches in on Volcarona

apparently volcarona is always gonna setup, no matter what, or stay on the field regardless of conditions, damn. So you speak of specific situations, while I speak in a general situation, to one of the good switch ins of ttar. Ok.

 

23 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Comparing Stone Edge and Rock Slide is analogous to comparing HJK and Close Combat

Once again, I just compare to your answers to me, let me get the quote

1 hour ago, DoubleJ said:

If you're afraid of missing, you probably shouldn't be playing Pokemon. 

___

 

23 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Haxorus + Mantine because... autism?

Not gonna lie, I kinda feel like your golden age is long gone, for you to put the worst possible situation that will rarely if ever gonna happen, instead of putting the common situation in play, yes it's autistic. Damn what if bug buzz actually crits? I mean, sure it's good to always check for worst case scenario, but in this case, worst case scenario or not, doens't matter, he'll do the same job at it. I simply put one of your bad suggestions here so you understand what I mean, is there a scenario where you wouldn't mind having that set over lets say aqua tail, superpower, rockslide or EQ? Great, you found a good niche for your set, the same is said about this one edit: speaking about haxorus last sentence, just to clarify.

 

23 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Freedom of Speech on a public forum

I don't see the problem here? Probably the wisest thing you've said so far.

 

23 minutes ago, DoubleJ said:

Saying Stone Edge > Rock Slide is a bad argument

Once again, I didn't say it was a bad argument, it's just a 50/50 argument, it's a good argument if you value 25 BP over 10% more acc, the same can be said on my end, for me it's bad as I value 10% acc more than 25 BP. You spoke about the crit chance, ok that is actually a really good argument in your favour, will that make me take it over risking losing to a win con for 20% miss chance, there's plenty of factors in a game, so please stop acting all mighty. This is almost like saying reuniclus with psyshock counters conkel if conkel isn't +2 yet, see what I mean or you still don't? Different situations will require different actions, that's the beauty of pokemon.

___

If there's something you cna't understand tho, feel free to say, I'm sleepy, might have messed something else., idk man, you say I'm being defensive, but you're the one who keeps on hammering stuff that we both know it's not necessarily true, it will be better in some cases, while the extra accuracy will be better in others, nuff said. Sorry if I insulted, like siad, sleepy and tired, and honestly this is just a pointless argument from both sides.

Edited by redspawn
Link to post

giphy.gif 

 

4 minutes ago, redspawn said:

If there's something you cna't understand tho, feel free to say, I'm sleepy, might have messed something else., idk man, you say I'm being defensive, but you're the one who keeps on hammering stuff that we both know it's not necessarily true, it will be better in some cases, while the extra accuracy will be better in others, nuff said. Sorry if I insulted, like siad, sleepy and tired, and honestly this is just a pointless argument from both sides.

I mean all I did was ask Cheels why she preferred Rock Slide on that set and then you decided to give your own personal opinion. Considering you directed your comment at my question, I felt the need to respond and argue that Stone Edge is better than Rock Slide on this set, in my opinion. Since then you called me dense, said my argument was bad, and claimed I was being autistic. You're also now claiming that Tyranitar vs "+1 Volcarona" is the worst case scenario...

 

I guess the Golden Age is gone.

Link to post
Just now, NikhilR said:

Go out there and save lives JJ, smh. 

Currently sitting in a bubble bath praying for the distractions to go away, but alas, here I am. 

 

Spoiler

Finished surgery rotation today though and I got a cupcake. Life feels good bro. Not LifeStyle, but just life in general =)

 

Link to post
Just now, DoubleJ said:

You're also now claiming that Tyranitar vs "+1 Volcarona" is the worst case scenari

Tell me where did I say that, I said that you considering +1, life orb, modest bug buzz is the worst case scenario as in, there's nothing else volcarona can do, other than go +2 or switch, which if they do you walk away with hp and a dead volcarona on the enemy side, or something damaged, nothing else afaik. You can 

 

1 minute ago, DoubleJ said:

Since then you called me dense

Yes you are, a lot really, there's been multiples of situation on the past in which you showed that aswell. Here being another, in which you hammer your opinion, while not understanding both are 100% viable, it's pretty much user preference. 

 

1 minute ago, DoubleJ said:

said my argument was bad

Once again, I said the argument has multiple factors, if you prefer accuracy over pure damage, % hp of pokemons, the entire team composition, how problematic volcarona is to your team to the point you have no problem into switching in, getting ttar on red but taking it out, etc, like I said, in this argument, to each, their own, plus you kinda tried to attack me indirectly, therefor some of my answers, but I think you can do the 1+1 there.

Aight I'm outti as we're derailing this to much, keep your opinion, I'll keep mine.

 

Link to post

For fuck sakes guys. Enough. Everything after the first few comments are completely unnecessary.

 

I get asked my choice of Rock Slide over Stone Edge a lot when I link my Sassy TTar. My main reasoning is in fact the accuracy. And this entirely bases on what is the role of Tyranitar on my team. It is there to counter the special offensive threats in OU. Volcarona and Chandelure being the biggest ones bit Reuniclus is also a part of the reason if I need chip damage + Crunch to kill so I might as well try to get the flinch first if the situation asks me to. I've explained this numerous times (i.e. in V4 chat) and people often understand my reasoning and some may or may not follow my decision to use Rock Slide. Entirely up to them.

 

There's just too many points in last comments I feel like slapping you guys for but I'm not gonna bother. Just accept different opinions and don't try to "win" an argument but instead just give insights of how you see things because these are not arguments you can ever win as there is no objective way to determine which one is better. There's way too many variables.

Link to post


OrangeManiac /
Is your Tyranitar character Sassy?

I also have a question

Why did you invest in evspd 252 on jolly / Gyarados?
Is not it better to surpass 130 points in one dragon dance? The remaining  is invested in HP.
I wonder about your thoughts..

Edited by everyxxxxeq
Link to post
3 hours ago, everyxxxxeq said:


OrangeManiac /
Is your Tyranitar character Sassy?

I also have a question

Why did you invest in evspd 252 on jolly / Gyarados?
Is not it better to surpass 130 points in one dragon dance? The remaining  is invested in HP.
I wonder about your thoughts..

I have many Tyranitars but this Special Defensive Tyranitar we're talking about is Sassy.

 

What comes to 252 Speed on Jolly with Gyarados, my general rule of thumb is that if you're speed investing almost up to 200 EV points - you might as well go max speed with it. That's just how I see things in general and especially with a set up move: That few HP points won't usually save you but going first against Gyarados vs. Gyarados can be huge. However, what comes to Gyarados' case I personally advice max speed on Jolly even more and the reason for that is the move Taunt. If a faster Gyarados uses the move "Taunt" on you, your Gyarados is no longer allow to set up and now you become a sitting duck against your opposing Gyarados unless you have the move Stone Edge. I had a 134 speed Gyarados for the longest time but a few awkward matches made me just prefer to use max speed. This being said, I don't see anything wrong with having split bulk/HP Gyarados - especially if your team is depending Gyarados as some kind of defensive switch ins to some Pokemon.

 

By the way, if you're aiming 130 speed I'd probably prefer Adamant Gyarados.

Edited by OrangeManiac
Link to post
3 minutes ago, notmudkip0 said:

Any physical moves on Hydreigon worth using besides Superpower? Could Dark STAB be given up for an extra coverage move?

uturn. Head smash, I guess, for gyaras, volcaronas. Works better with scarf. Still not worth in most of the cases. Edit: Also, its egg move.

Edited by pachima
Link to post
13 hours ago, OrangeManiac said:

For fuck sakes guys. Enough. Everything after the first few comments are completely unnecessary.

 

I get asked my choice of Rock Slide over Stone Edge a lot when I link my Sassy TTar. My main reasoning is in fact the accuracy. And this entirely bases on what is the role of Tyranitar on my team. It is there to counter the special offensive threats in OU. Volcarona and Chandelure being the biggest ones bit Reuniclus is also a part of the reason if I need chip damage + Crunch to kill so I might as well try to get the flinch first if the situation asks me to. I've explained this numerous times (i.e. in V4 chat) and people often understand my reasoning and some may or may not follow my decision to use Rock Slide. Entirely up to them.

 

There's just too many points in last comments I feel like slapping you guys for but I'm not gonna bother. Just accept different opinions and don't try to "win" an argument but instead just give insights of how you see things because these are not arguments you can ever win as there is no objective way to determine which one is better. There's way too many variables.

Shut up orange, with love of course

Link to post

80% to do a 100 bp move vs 90% to do a 75 bp move
Stone Edge: 0,8*100 = 80

Rock Slide: 0,9*75= 67,5

 

Stone Edge should usually deal more damage than Rock Slide even when we factor in the miss chance. However, Tyranitar is not great long term because it lacks recovery. It's a good pivot that puts on a lot of pressure on the opponent with raw power or utility. I understand the need to avoid moves that miss often but when it comes to physical rock moves, it's kind of unavoidable, so you might as well play the move with the best risk/reward ratio. 

Also, @Gunthug is a nab that prefers playing Fire Blast over Flamethrower.

Link to post

Against Volcarona and Chandelure Tyranitar is actually pretty long-term solution. Only way it isn't is if you get predicted and someone uses Bug Buzz/Energy Ball on the switch. Anything else and you force either Volcarona/Chandelure to die making Sassy Tyranitar do its main job or you force them to switch leaving the battlefield fairly untouched. If one got enough balls, Tyranitar can even set up Stealth Rocks on them and leaving the situation by carrying momentum. Tyranitar is very good check to these Pokemon if you're very offensive minded player who wants to keep the momentum going. Alternatives like Toxic + Stoss Blissey really fail to do that.

 

In Pokemon, I don't think you can define the overall damage output as the deciding factor what to do. The same way sometimes a low accuracy/high power move can be better if it provides a possible 2HKO on a wall, a more reliable option can sometimes be the better overall play. In addition, against most defensive Pokemon 0 Atk Stone Edge isn't inherently a threat either so it doesn't make you gain any momentum and it isn't even always the go-to STAB move in neutral damage situations - you would often prefer using Crunch over Stone Edge even for neutral damage. Therefor calculating the mathematical cumulative damage output is kind of a misleading calculation because it doesn't exactly tell the overall "actual" cumulative damage output difference you're doing. Lastly, the difference "might be only 10%" but as far as I'm concerned this 10% difference makes me lose twice as many games to Volcarona sweeps as I would normally do. And if you're weak to Volcarona, this stat makes all the difference.

 

Again, nothing to discredit the above post at all as all of it makes a lot of intuitive sense but a couple statements seemed a bit too generalizing for me not to address any of that.

 

I guess this is the last post I'll address this move selection. Well, probably not.

 

Edited by OrangeManiac
Phone typing sux
Link to post

thanks for all the hard work and builds. Really awesome. Would it be possible to post actual teams? 

I want to get into pvp but don't know where to start, i'm currently just putting together random pokemon from this thread and hoping it makes a decent team.

 

Eg. I'm running Volcarona, Aerodactyl, skarmory, blissey, starmie, tyranitar.

 

Link to post
12 minutes ago, hihats said:

thanks for all the hard work and builds. Really awesome. Would it be possible to post actual teams? 

I want to get into pvp but don't know where to start, i'm currently just putting together random pokemon from this thread and hoping it makes a decent team.

 

Eg. I'm running Volcarona, Aerodactyl, skarmory, blissey, starmie, tyranitar.

The problem is that it's already difficult enough to make objectively the best movesets for Pokemon, making objectively best teams is impossible. We're all biased in some way that everyone thinks some Pokemon is a bit less strong or more strong as it actually is and we reflect the whole teambuilding process from our own experiences. Also, each one of us has different playstyle so making a team that reflects your playstyle is VERY important. Making a defensive team for inpatient offensive player isn't a good strategy in any possible way.

 

I never recommend any exact teams but I can look at your team and tell if it has some holes in it or if something might become very difficult to deal with.

 

For your team I need a little bit more information, such as movesets and natures and EVs. If you wanna post them in PM, that's fine. So far I can only say that your current team looks that it kind of struggles having wallbreak power. Where as Volcarona, Aerodactyl and Starmie are overall nice sweepers - they get walled hard by OU walls and therefor underperform hard. Volcarona itself is one of the most threatening OU Pokemon but you need something to take down Blissey first. Same goes to Starmie and Aerodactyl in terms of "you need some pressure to take down hippowdon". Also I don't know your Skarmory's set. Is it defogger? Hazard setter? But in general note I'd say I'd recommend you to use 1-2 hard wallbreakers that are hard to impossible to fully wall by Hippowdon/Blissey/Skarmory/Jellicent. Such Pokemon are Lucario/Hydreigon/Reuniclus/Haxorus/Conkeldurr/Dragonite/Excadrill just to namedrop a few.

Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy.