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Really not liking level caps


Weedle

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So your only reply is "git gud" at the new difficulty and accept it? You're even admitting that you probably won't beat the e4, so you'd just be wasting time using those spindas. And for most players, wasting time on losing is not fun.

edit: wasting time on building a comp team just to beat what is pre-dungeon content is also not fun

And for the guy who said he beat it in one day without Evs or breeding, frankly you either had a team/Pokemon already ready for it, used plenty of items or I just flat out don't believe you.

Edited by atlasstar
clarification
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6 minutes ago, Gunthug said:

So to you, 3 people is a majority? Is that what your assertion is right now? 

No, but it is a majority to just you and the mods/senior comp members who don't count towards the common playerbase. I was hasty in saying that, let me clarify that it is a silent majority, that are probably either afraid or willing to go along with these bad changes enough not to speak up. Whenever they have the jokes about getting good and "I beat it on the first try" comments begin.

2 minutes ago, superpichu999 said:

For the most part moves are implemented, baring some secondary effects, its the ge4/5 abilties and items that arent.

Absolutely incorrect, moves like confuse ray are still 100% unimplemented(and I've had experiences where this just gives the AI a free turn). And secondary effects from as far back as gen 2/3 moves still aren't.

Edited by atlasstar
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4 minutes ago, maxkek said:

>I only see three people complaining so those are the only people complaining ever

He literally said that 3 people complaining was his evidence of a majority lol. Keep up

 

2 minutes ago, atlasstar said:

No, but it is a majority to just you and the mods/senior comp members who don't count towards the common playerbase. I was hasty in saying that, let me clarify that it is a silent majority, that are probably either afraid or willing to go along with these bad changes enough not to speak up. Whenever they have the jokes about getting good and "I beat it on the first try" comments 

"That are probably..." there you go making assumptions again! It's really not that difficult to refrain from hypocrisy, you know.

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3 minutes ago, atlasstar said:

No, but it is a majority to just you and the mods/senior comp members who don't count towards the common playerbase. I was hasty in saying that, let me clarify that it is a silent majority, that are probably either afraid or willing to go along with these bad changes enough not to speak up. Whenever they have the jokes about getting good and "I beat it on the first try" comments begin.

Absolutely incorrect, moves like confuse ray are still 100% unimplemented(and I've had experiences where this just gives the AI a free turn). And secondary effects from as far back as gen 2/3 moves still aren't.

Thats why i said "for the most part". Please im trying to help.

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Just now, Gunthug said:

He literally said that 3 people complaining was his evidence of a majority lol. Keep up

 

"That are probably..." there you go making assumptions again! It's really not that difficult to refrain from hypocrisy, you know.

Sorry that I don't keep tabs on every person who complains lol It's almost like you never had a point other than denying that people don't like it.

 

1 minute ago, superpichu999 said:

Thats why i said "for the most part". Please im trying to help.

Believe me when I say I'm not trying to bash you or insult you, but if it were "for the most part" nobody would have an issue with it. The devs should really have the game working properly before they're making the AI teams harder.

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How about this, lets make a google form asking people about the various things that people dont like from the update, get as many people to fill it out, and see which side is most people is actually on, since people are agruing about other people assuming stuff.

 

4 minutes ago, Feralcaw said:

> go breed

>breeding is locked till post e4

not in hoenn or unova so you do actually have the option to breed

Edited by superpichu999
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We're not making builds easier, except for cases where the difficulty spikes are obviously bugs (where the NPCs exceed the level cap for no apparent reason). This is a strategy game, stop expecting to be able to faceroll your keyboards with Earthquake.

 

What we're doing instead is making healing items more prevalent in the game, and giving more money throughout the storyline so that players can purchase them more frequently. This is partially broken right now with untradeable items not being sellable, which is already fixed for the next update.

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2 minutes ago, superpichu999 said:

How about this, lets make a google form asking people about the various things that people dont like from the update, and see if which side is most people is actually on, since people are agruing about other people assuming stuff.

not in hoenn or unova so you do actually have the option to breed

But you're basically saying that one should play the other games to stand a fighting chance in beating the one they want to beat in the first place.

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52 minutes ago, atlasstar said:

So your only reply is "git gud" at the new difficulty and accept it? You're even admitting that you probably won't beat the e4, so you'd just be wasting time using those spindas. And for most players, wasting time on losing is not fun.

I'd like to try and clear up some confusion, as this isn't the message we're trying to get across.

 

The design philosophy behind the level cap is to teach players about how to counter certain strategies and help them improve upon their current battle knowledge.

The base game does this on some level, by teaching players about some of the more basic mechanics , such as type advantages.

 

However, in vanilla, the jump from simple storyline battles to slightly more in-depth knowledge, such as simple strategies used within competitive play, or planned later end game content is rather huge.

This is a problem for the design of the game, because instead of encouraging players to 'climb to the top' where the game increases in difficulty as players begin to overcome earlier obstacles; the difficulty remains the same throughout and players are then thrown off when it comes to anything past that.

 

We'd like to prepare our players for the content that comes after the main storyline is finished, and the way we've opted to do that is by creating this 'slope mentioned above.

One of the early ways we did this was with Artificial Intelligent or 'AI'.

 

The way the AI is designed is that it is only as good as the team given to it, it is equipped to use strategies at hand, but if it does not have those strategies available to it there is very little it can do.

 

You can see this in the difficulty difference between standard NPCs and Gym Leaders/Rivals - with the latter naturally being harder.

 

More recently, we looked at redesigning our important storyline battles with this difficulty slope in mind, with early Gym Leaders having basic strategies, and later Gym Leaders getting slightly more challenging.

 

It turned out rather well, although in the testing phase, we quickly realized that players were able to arbitrarily bypass this level of challenge by simply overleveling the Gym Leader.

This posed a problem, as it encouraged some to spend more time grinding to overcome the challenge of the gym leader, rather than identify their strategy and use this knowledge to beat them.

 

This is where the level restriction came into play, and we decided on 'caps' for each badge level, which ranged from about 6 to a couple of levels above the gym leader, depending on how far into the storyline a player is - by this time it is expected that players will have picked up on some the core strategies to battling, such as being able to switch at the appropriate time, and potentially predict what an opponent might do, thus we chose a level cap closer to the gym leader.

 

We don't want to push players away with any of these changes, but rather try and prepare them for what it is to come.

We want to help build the PokeMMO community and the game further, and we are unable to do that if players who go through the storyline by overleveling their opponents are faced with later-game content and decide to leave due to a spike in difficulty that we hadn't prepared them for.

 

We're always open to feedback - and if you're struggling with any battles in particular by all means let us know which those are.

 

I hope this helps to clear up some of the misconceptions regarding this decision.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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24 minutes ago, Roundabout said:

If by future content you mean legendary dungeons then it's fine if they are hard, because it would be super rewarding for players to finish them and get a legendary pokemon or some other cool reward, so casuals might want to finally "get good" to beat them, but forcing everyone to "get good" and grind a lot to just beat the storyline is plain stupid imo, for the reason described above.

There is one problem though if the players are still learning basic game mechanics by the time they reach end game content then the storyline itself has failed to fulfill its obligations in teaching the players how to play the game. 

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Just now, superpichu999 said:

No im saying theres actaully an option to do it if they want. Dont put words into my mouth.

You're quite literally saying that the other regions have breeding, therefore one would have to play those games to unlock breeding earlier.

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4 minutes ago, maxkek said:

You're quite literally saying that the other regions have breeding, therefore one would have to play those games to unlock breeding earlier.

Yes seeing as the original poster felt to mention that Kanto's daycare is after the e4 as a way to make someone look stupid or the guy didnt know hoenn or unova got it early. Even then what is wrong with going to other regions before one region is done. Its a feature of pokemmo.

Edited by superpichu999
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It's no use, the mods and devs want the changes, so telling them anything otherwise as Kyu has said very clearly is not going to change anything. He clearly did not read anything or cares about the opinions or experience of the players. I've seen plenty of "why not just have the option there, have the second battle harder". And the response to probably the most reasonable change I've seen is always just "get better at how it is now" or "no, we aren't going to change anything"

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2 minutes ago, atlasstar said:

It's no use, the mods and devs want the changes, so telling them anything otherwise as Kyu has said very clearly is not going to change anything. He clearly did not read anything or cares about the opinions or experience of the players. I've seen plenty of "why not just have the option there, have the second battle harder". And the response to probably the most reasonable change I've seen is always just "get better at how it is now" or "no, we aren't going to change anything"

Darkshade posts a 9 paragraph response and you're still on with this "all anyone ever says is git gud" bullshit? You must really love being the victim. This game is so unfair to you!!!

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Untrue, did you read Kyu's post? He says they have heard the public outcry and they are working on things, in fact things have already been fixed for the next patch it just needs to be implemented. It looks to me like Unova just came out and they are ironing out what they want the game to be, im sure in time it might change but things are not going to be swinging dramatically back and forth. Im fairly rustled and upset by the riddiculousness of the E44 in Unova, it feels more like im playing pokemon reborn than pokemmo, where everyone crowds viridian city and talks about jumpstones and has fun, but perhaps the changes *will* be for the better, or perhaps not. Give it time Arlasstar, i see 10-20 people every day complain in global chat the same thing you are saying, so your concerns are not unheard.

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I appreciate that Shade at least put thought into his post, and didn't sound so patronizing and authoritative about it. But explaining that the AI gets harder, doesn't fix anything, all I keep seeing is "preparing for the end game dungeons",

Okay maybe I'll do those when they're out and I want to do comp team builds.

But expecting your entire player base to want or just accept a shift in difficulty towards what is artificial difficulty in AI just to have end game content is ridiculous.

People want to play a pokemon mmo, not fight comp AI they could fight in any romhack.

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